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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
 Posted - 03 Sep 2008 : 04:48:15
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My idea is to kill off Mystra and cause a temporary Weave instability, but not have the wave of blue fire (which we didn't have before) or any of the other effects that have been added this time. We didn't have all these other effects before, and I don't see why we have them now.
I'm willing to off Mystra -- and replace her. I'm not willing to accept most of the other changes that officially came with it. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 03 Sep 2008 : 04:52:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Varl
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Individuals can certainly do what they wish, and post alternate versions of the Realms if they wish. But those alternate versions will be their own, and cannot receive official sanction from this site.
That officially-inflicted fracturing of the player base, more than any other reason, is my largest regret regarding what's been done to the Realms since its glory days. The lore is where it's at for me, or well, it used to be for me, but now even that one precious garment I've been dangling from is quickly losing thread count. I used to (naively) believe that no matter how radically they changed the core game, FR lore would always be there to use, enjoy, and insert into my Realms. It just goes to show that nothing is sacred in business. 
As much as I hate to say it, the fracturing of the player base is not new. Though I personally don't see what the big deal is, there are people that hate the Time of Troubles and refuse to accept it. That's their call. The fact that I don't understand that viewpoint doesn't change the fact that it exists and that they feel strongly about it -- and that happens with just about anything than can have different viewpoints.
I am inclined to say that the fracture is more dramatic and more widespread this time, but fracturing the fan base is not a new thing for the publishers of this setting (both TSR and WotC). |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 03 Sep 2008 : 04:55:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
quote:
Originally posted by RodOdom
"Relationship as in, we are a fan site and thus operate at the sufferance of WotC. They don't have to allow us to operate so freely. I think they could shut us down if they wanted, and I'm certain that they could at the least impose severe limitations on us."
If WotC bullies their customers around like employees, it's definitely time for companies like Paizo to take over.
As much as I don't like 4th Edition, nor the changes they did to the Realms, this is NOT about being a bully!
This is a company that has a copyright and has to make sure that copyright is protected and not abused by others.
Indeed. WotC doesn't have to share. There are others out there -- one notable fantasy author comes to mind -- who come down hard on any fan sites related to their material. Good or bad, they close them down. WotC could be this way, if they chose to be.
We're actually kind of lucky that WotC is as lenient as it is. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 03 Sep 2008 : 06:04:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
quote:
Originally posted by RodOdom
"Relationship as in, we are a fan site and thus operate at the sufferance of WotC. They don't have to allow us to operate so freely. I think they could shut us down if they wanted, and I'm certain that they could at the least impose severe limitations on us."
If WotC bullies their customers around like employees, it's definitely time for companies like Paizo to take over.
As much as I don't like 4th Edition, nor the changes they did to the Realms, this is NOT about being a bully!
This is a company that has a copyright and has to make sure that copyright is protected and not abused by others.
Indeed. WotC doesn't have to share. There are others out there -- one notable fantasy author comes to mind -- who come down hard on any fan sites related to their material. Good or bad, they close them down. WotC could be this way, if they chose to be.
We're actually kind of lucky that WotC is as lenient as it is.
It's likely WotC new fansite policy will help us to determine exactly what we can and cannot do in terms of a project like this. It's also one of the reasons why we're holding back release of the next Candlekeep Compendium. We want to be sure it's content is pretty much compliant with Wizards new directives on fan productions. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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ksu_bond
Learned Scribe
New Zealand
214 Posts |
Posted - 03 Sep 2008 : 06:36:56
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"What you don't like the changes?! That's fine just continue running your 1e/2/3e/3.5e Realms. Otherwise if you want to update to the new 4e Realms its just best to scrap everything that you've already done and start over."
Great advice. Really it is, just think of all the things you could solve using this advice. Oh you want to upgrade to Vista...hmm...well either you'll need to upgrade your computer's hardware for it to run effectively otherwise you're better off staying with the operating system you already have. Oh but we are no longer supporting it, so you'll need to do any fixes yourself.
Oh no my front door just got kicked in...better go to Lowe's. Hmmm, my door is 32" but all they have is 36". Well I can either make due with my busted door...or all I got to do is reframe it out so that a 36" door will fit. I'm sure that won't be any trouble, I mean its not like it will take a lot of time, or effort.
Oh and if your car breaks down...why bother fixing it just upgrade to the newest model thats the simplest thing to do than to mess with fixing something that broken...besides a new car will be shinnier and attract more attention.
Hopefully, my point has gotten across by now, but I can go on for those who like to pat WotC on the back for doing the best they could with what they had to work with. 4e Realms was the quickest, easiest, and cheapest solution to a "perceived" problem with the Realms. I understand that from time to time it can be necessary to "fracture your base of supporters"; but to fracture that base and then have the nerve to tell long time fans who have invested countless hours into their product, but more importantly paying customers who have purchased nearly every item with the FR logo adorning it, that they can either continue the edition of their choice but if they want to play in 4e it will just be easier to scrap all that work and start over is rude and inconsiderate. So, if those who have been disenfranchised by said company are being rude and inconsiderate toward that company they have every right.
And before there is a flood of replies spouting wotc's preferred mantra, "well if you don't like the changes then continue playing the edition of your choice", remember that for anyone who does choose to remain in an older edition that that edition is no longer supported. More alarmingly is that it may become next to impossible to even use the internet to get support for older editions (ie. new ideas, flushing out of various bits of lore, etc.) as even longtime sites like Candlekeep are worried that WotC will take tighter control of its product.
Of course WotC has the right to do this as it is there product, but in the past WotC ignored if not encouraged the vast amounts of unofficial gaming content that has proliferated the internet for years. So to take it away now is kinda like telling a 5 year old that they can have a sucker but then before their finished telling them that they're not supposed to have that sucker and to give it back.
WotC can do whatever they please, but in the end every member of this site is a consumer and it is as consumers that we hold the ultimate power and authority as we have what Wizards and every other company wants...so perhaps Wizards should think about that...after all even George Lucas bowed to fan pressure following the release of Episode 1 and minimized Mr. Binks' role in the following to films. |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 03 Sep 2008 : 07:34:08
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WotC can't shut down anything while it's free, don't understand this, what you can't create your own campaign background an put it online, I think you can
But I see that every member has a different view how FR should be, making this impossible
personally I ignore most (few 3e novels) after Cloak & Dagger with alternate TOT
I doubt that wotc will ever release a FR book after Saharelgard (including 5e etc.)
look what they've done at Planewalker. I'd like to see parts of the Realms that weren't detailed in earlier editions, not an alternative CS. There's lots of options here, no matter that the current designers are telling the opposite.
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RodOdom
Senior Scribe
USA
509 Posts |
Posted - 03 Sep 2008 : 08:54:52
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"Weird Al makes some great music, but he also makes sure to the get the permission of every artist he makes fun of before proceeding."
He charges money for his satire. So it wouldn't covered under fair use laws. |
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RodOdom
Senior Scribe
USA
509 Posts |
Posted - 03 Sep 2008 : 09:00:28
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"But I see that every member has a different view how FR should be, making this impossible"
I agree with that. And I don't think a competing version of FR4E would go anywhere. But I don't understand the "oh no, let's no piss them off" concern. With 4E, they have made it quite clear they don't care what FR fans think. |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3563 Posts |
Posted - 03 Sep 2008 : 14:55:56
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quote:
Originally posted by RodOdom
"But I see that every member has a different view how FR should be, making this impossible"
I agree with that. And I don't think a competing version of FR4E would go anywhere. But I don't understand the "oh no, let's no piss them off" concern. With 4E, they have made it quite clear they don't care what FR fans think.
I understand your feelings, bt that's not quite right. They care about FR fans, they care about the ones they think they can keep + ones they think they can attract. It's pretty simple math WOTC think that Number of current Customers < Number of customers in future.
Unfortunately some of us fall in to the group that they expected to fall of the wagon so to speak. Sucks for that group for sure!
As for not pissing them of , thats pretty simple as well. Alaundo's stated goal is to be a repository of all FR lore. Not all FR lore 3.5 and earlier. This site is in it for the long run no matter what, and will be a much better place for all with the full cooperation of Wotc.
While we can debate if they can/could shut this site down, one thing they can easily do is forbid their writers/designers from posting here. It's as simple as saying if you do, no more books for you. And as for me this would be a much different place without Ed, Steven, Brian....etc, etc. |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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RodOdom
Senior Scribe
USA
509 Posts |
Posted - 03 Sep 2008 : 15:50:28
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| They could have gotten new fans and kept all the old fans, if they hadn't taken the "piss on it and make it mine" approach. Forget it. The Realms is dead. |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3240 Posts |
Posted - 03 Sep 2008 : 16:13:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Quale
WotC can't shut down anything while it's free, don't understand this, what you can't create your own campaign background an put it online, I think you can
Granted, they can't 'shut down the site', per se, but they can restrict us from using any of the names, details or anything else published by them in any of their material, which effectively will shut us down. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3240 Posts |
Posted - 03 Sep 2008 : 16:18:14
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quote:
Originally posted by RodOdom
"Weird Al makes some great music, but he also makes sure to the get the permission of every artist he makes fun of before proceeding."
He charges money for his satire. So it wouldn't covered under fair use laws.
If the songwriter or recording company does not give his permission, they can force him to not make the music. He could fight it, of course, but that alone would cost money and time better suited to making music. He also does it because he's a hell of a guy and doesn't want to hurt anyone's feelings.
Do not think that you can publish or sell whatever you want and not worry about the original writers and publishers. That is their hard work, their time and effort and they will protect it. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3563 Posts |
Posted - 03 Sep 2008 : 16:26:50
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quote:
Originally posted by RodOdom
They could have gotten new fans and kept all the old fans, if they hadn't taken the "piss on it and make it mine" approach. Forget it. The Realms is dead.
I also think they could have kept them all while making smaller adjustments to draw new Players,
Personally I would have thought about plopping abeir down far enough awaty so as not to smash anything and use that as a starting point for new players, who as thry progress would then move to gaming if the richer intact Faerun....oh well. |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 03 Sep 2008 : 16:54:22
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quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
quote:
Originally posted by RodOdom
"Weird Al makes some great music, but he also makes sure to the get the permission of every artist he makes fun of before proceeding."
He charges money for his satire. So it wouldn't covered under fair use laws.
If the songwriter or recording company does not give his permission, they can force him to not make the music. He could fight it, of course, but that alone would cost money and time better suited to making music. He also does it because he's a hell of a guy and doesn't want to hurt anyone's feelings.
Do not think that you can publish or sell whatever you want and not worry about the original writers and publishers. That is their hard work, their time and effort and they will protect it.
Actually, he can make parodies freely under fair use laws. Anyone can. Weird Al simply chooses not to. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 03 Sep 2008 : 16:55:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
quote:
Originally posted by Quale
WotC can't shut down anything while it's free, don't understand this, what you can't create your own campaign background an put it online, I think you can
Granted, they can't 'shut down the site', per se, but they can restrict us from using any of the names, details or anything else published by them in any of their material, which effectively will shut us down.
Indeed. They could even be annoying about the domain name. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Varl
Learned Scribe
USA
284 Posts |
Posted - 03 Sep 2008 : 17:54:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
As much as I hate to say it, the fracturing of the player base is not new.
I am inclined to say that the fracture is more dramatic and more widespread this time, but fracturing the fan base is not a new thing for the publishers of this setting (both TSR and WotC).
Oh, I know it's not an epiphany or anything, it's just sad. In a world where independent freelance developers of Realms/D&D material can coalesce at one website and create material for OOP editions of the game, it boggles my mind that WotC is unable to.
They give excuses like they'd be competing against themselves, there's not enough of a fanbase to warrant continuing support of old editions, or my favorite, there's not enough money in it to justify the positions required to create the material. Funny, I know of several websites whose fans create wonderful material for both the core game and the Realms, and they're not being paid a dime. Sure, it often takes them longer to create said material, but what's time vs. obsolescence?
All that said, what do I know? I've actually become quite satisfied at the everincreasing distance placed between me and the path WotC chooses to take, as well as very content with the sheer amount of lore we've been given over the past 25+ years. It's not like we need more....or do we?   |
I'm on a permanent vacation to the soul. -Tash Sultana |
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Christopher_Rowe
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
879 Posts |
Posted - 04 Sep 2008 : 14:59:29
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| Just as a point of clarification, as far as I know nobody has seen anything about the fansite policy, and as far as I know, there's no reason to believe that Candlekeep and its compendia are likely to be deemed out of bounds. That's right, isn't it? |
My Realms novel, Sandstorm, is now available for ordering. |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3563 Posts |
Posted - 04 Sep 2008 : 15:08:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Christopher_Rowe
Just as a point of clarification, as far as I know nobody has seen anything about the fansite policy, and as far as I know, there's no reason to believe that Candlekeep and its compendia are likely to be deemed out of bounds. That's right, isn't it?
I think that all we know is that there are most likely going to be changes to it, which is why we are waiting to publish the latest Candlekeep Compendium after we see just what has changed. |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 04 Sep 2008 : 15:44:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Christopher_Rowe
Just as a point of clarification, as far as I know nobody has seen anything about the fansite policy, and as far as I know, there's no reason to believe that Candlekeep and its compendia are likely to be deemed out of bounds. That's right, isn't it?
Yes. But until we're sure exactly how the new fansite policy is worded, we've decided it's best to simply try the "wait and see" approach. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 04 Sep 2008 : 23:55:43
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True enough.
The problem is they just let go of the people in charge of the GSL, and those were the same people that were suposed to give us a fansite version, so we may never see a fansite version at this point, since they don't seem interested in any further GSL development at all.
They took their 'ball' and went home, basically.
Anyhow, I would just like to add to this discussion that any attack on CK, after an entire year of PR idiocy, would probably only further alienate the fanbase and drive people away.
No matter what folks may think of them right now, the WotC people are still intelligent, and ordering CK to "cease and desist" would be the equivalent of a 'star' trying to shut down their own fanclub.
I'm not saying that its not possible, but it would be further proof that someone 'in charge' has it in for FR, because that would be akin to IP suicide. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 04 Sep 2008 23:58:17 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 05 Sep 2008 : 06:04:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
True enough.
The problem is they just let go of the people in charge of the GSL, and those were the same people that were suposed to give us a fansite version, so we may never see a fansite version at this point, since they don't seem interested in any further GSL development at all.
They took their 'ball' and went home, basically.
Anyhow, I would just like to add to this discussion that any attack on CK, after an entire year of PR idiocy, would probably only further alienate the fanbase and drive people away.
No matter what folks may think of them right now, the WotC people are still intelligent, and ordering CK to "cease and desist" would be the equivalent of a 'star' trying to shut down their own fanclub.
I'm not saying that its not possible, but it would be further proof that someone 'in charge' has it in for FR, because that would be akin to IP suicide.
I can't really agree. If they shut down their own WotC forums, then that would be shutting down their fan club. Our total number of posters is far less than theirs, and the number of active posters (even stretching the word active to mean one post a month) is even smaller than that. We're the unofficial fan club.
I agree that them shutting us down would further damage their reputation among many Realms fans, but there are a lot more that really wouldn't care. So I don't see this theoretical shutdown as being anything more than a minor thing for them. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 05 Sep 2008 06:12:32 |
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Ayunken-vanzan
Senior Scribe
Germany
657 Posts |
Posted - 05 Sep 2008 : 06:56:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
The problem is they just let go of the people in charge of the GSL, and those were the same people that were suposed to give us a fansite version, so we may never see a fansite version at this point, since they don't seem interested in any further GSL development at all.
Didn't they only let got only one of the two in charge for the GSL? So one is still trying to modify the beast and to give us something usable. |
"What mattered our lives now? When our world had been torn from us? Folk wept, or drank, or stood staring out over the land, wondering what new horror each dawn would bring."
Elender Stormfall of Suzail
"Anyone can kill deities, cause plagues, or destroy organizations. It takes real skill to make them live on."
Varl
FR/D&D-Links • 2ed Downloads |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 05 Sep 2008 : 16:02:22
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When I re-read the Paizo thread concerning this, I do get the idea that it was only one ATM, and people were only talking about the other person in a 'what-if' kind of way - it was rather confusing.
Perhaps someone with a little 'leverage' (like, say, Brian James) could find out if we are stil do for a fansite GSL at this point?
Also, Wooly, I would hardly call the WotC site their 'Fan Club' - the nay-saying there makes this place look like a bunch of 'FR Fanboyz' (which we were, for the most part, up until a few months ago).
I see FAR MORE negativity aimed at them there then anywhere else on the web. 
Anyhow, you'd be surprised at how many people use CK as a resource - even if they never post. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 05 Sep 2008 : 16:38:45
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Yes, only Linae was let go. Scott Rouse is still there and he's said that he's working on it, least he did during the ENworld thread about Linae's dismissal.
quote:
Originally posted by Ayunken-vanzan
Didn't they only let got only one of the two in charge for the GSL? So one is still trying to modify the beast and to give us something usable.
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For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 05 Sep 2008 : 16:43:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
When I re-read the Paizo thread concerning this, I do get the idea that it was only one ATM, and people were only talking about the other person in a 'what-if' kind of way - it was rather confusing.
Perhaps someone with a little 'leverage' (like, say, Brian James) could find out if we are stil do for a fansite GSL at this point?
Also, Wooly, I would hardly call the WotC site their 'Fan Club' - the nay-saying there makes this place look like a bunch of 'FR Fanboyz' (which we were, for the most part, up until a few months ago).
I see FAR MORE negativity aimed at them there then anywhere else on the web.
Anyhow, you'd be surprised at how many people use CK as a resource - even if they never post.
Yeah, they have more negativity there -- but that's partially because they have more posters. A lot more. And they also have a lot more fanboyz, too.
But that doesn't change the fact that if you're looking for a place to discuss the setting, the obvious place to look is on the website of that setting's publisher.
As long as they host their own FR forums, that's the official fan club. We are an unofficial fan club. We are far smaller and we are not affiliated with Wizards or its employees in an official capacity. And our status as a place for information doesn't really matter. Compared to their own forums, we are small fish. We're the mom and pop store down the road from Wal-Mart. They could shut us down in a heartbeat and not notice a thing.
I'm not saying that they will or are even likely to. I just don't see that us having some dedicated posters makes us any kind of safe from whatever WotC or its corporate masters decide to do. We do enjoy a sort of special status with all the authors and designers who do come here, but we're still the little guy. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 05 Sep 2008 : 17:11:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I'm not saying that they will or are even likely to. I just don't see that us having some dedicated posters makes us any kind of safe from whatever WotC or its corporate masters decide to do. We do enjoy a sort of special status with all the authors and designers who do come here, but we're still the little guy.
I think Markus might be suggesting that because of the presence of some of our more prominent scribes, that we should probably be seen in a little different "legal" light when compared to other FR fan sites.
In the end, it matters not. Whatever decisions WotC make with regard to their fansite policy... Candlekeep is just as applicable as any other FR site not affliated with WotC. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 05 Sep 2008 17:12:23 |
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Arioch
Learned Scribe
Italy
222 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2008 : 11:18:19
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quote:
Originally posted by redsaber
Hi everyone,
I don't post quite often here (even though I read it much), but I still appreciate a lot all the knowledge and lore you guys have acquired and I must say that I use it very often.
I've been playing in the realms for more then a decade now and I have to admit that I'm completely and utterly disgusted by the new version of it by Hasbro.
So my question goes like this... Would it be possible to have a new version of the realms (still 100 years later) but remade by Candlekeep's scribes?
I'm sure that retarded "returned abeir" and all that crap would be left out, so that hardcore fans like me would finally enjoy playing in that "new 4th ed. realms".
What do you guys think?
PS: I know some of you will tell me "Well you can still play in 3.5 FR", but that's not the point of my question. ;)
Hi Redsaber,
I read this thread only now. I had an idea similar to yours before
(http://www.forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=11368)
My opinion was then (and partly still is) that one of the main problem of the new FR is the core system, because of the way it influenced the lore.
So, I think I will play with 3.5 rules, maybe using something from the 4ed as house rules.
About the Lore, I agree with Markustay's second post on this thread.
But, if the new policy from WotC will permit it, I also agree on working a more "detailed" (and logical) explanation on some of the latest realms event with interested people.
(Because, as someone said, they changed too much too quickly... often without good "in-game" explanation)
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Edited by - Arioch on 10 Sep 2008 11:22:31 |
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Jakk
Great Reader
Canada
2165 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2008 : 06:21:16
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I'm with Arioch on this... if my group changes the game system to anything from 3.5, it will be Pathfinder, using FR material from 3.5 and earlier as campaign resources.
I can't even pretend to know what Wizbro was thinking, but I know that nothing they did was necessary. I've heard people saying that "the Chosen [of Mystra] had to go" and all that, and my response is, fine, don't use them in your games. Just because these powerful NPCs are in the books doesn't mean your PCs have to trip over them all the time (or vice versa, more likely).
I also find it amusing that Halaster snuffed it without Waterdeep apparently even noticing, given all the chaos that happened when he was abducted by the Twisted Rune in late 2E (see "Undermountain: Stardock").
On another note, "Spellplague" is certainly a good term for it, since, judging from the new rules, 4E seems to see all wizards as a plague to be eradicated... or at least to discourage players from wanting to participate in.
I must thank Wizbro for giving me more disposable income, though, since I won't be buying any of their future gaming products. I just wish I'd waited and had a look at the new edition before buying the core books. |
Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.
If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic. |
Edited by - Jakk on 12 Sep 2008 06:22:17 |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3240 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2008 : 13:30:55
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quote:
Originally posted by Jakk
I also find it amusing that Halaster snuffed it without Waterdeep apparently even noticing, given all the chaos that happened when he was abducted by the Twisted Rune in late 2E (see "Undermountain: Stardock"). had a look at the new edition before buying the core books.
Actually, Halaster 'snuffed it' in the Expedition to Undermountain book that they put out. And when he died, he sent a mental 'shout out' to every adventurer and magic-user that was connected in the remotest way to the Undermountain.
Edit: Oh, and the earthquake centered on Waterdeep too... |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
Edited by - Ashe Ravenheart on 12 Sep 2008 13:31:41 |
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Azkyroth
Acolyte
6 Posts |
Posted - 15 Feb 2009 : 07:04:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
quote:
Originally posted by RodOdom
"Relationship as in, we are a fan site and thus operate at the sufferance of WotC. They don't have to allow us to operate so freely. I think they could shut us down if they wanted, and I'm certain that they could at the least impose severe limitations on us."
If WotC bullies their customers around like employees, it's definitely time for companies like Paizo to take over.
As much as I don't like 4th Edition, nor the changes they did to the Realms, this is NOT about being a bully!
This is a company that has a copyright and has to make sure that copyright is protected and not abused by others.
Indeed. WotC doesn't have to share. There are others out there -- one notable fantasy author comes to mind -- who come down hard on any fan sites related to their material. Good or bad, they close them down. WotC could be this way, if they chose to be.
We're actually kind of lucky that WotC is as lenient as it is.
Apologies if I'm late replying, but...
I confess I'm entirely unable to comprehend the mindset of someone who would regard the publication of non-commercial fan-created alternatives to their subsequent modifications of a setting - let alone any fan sites at all - as any kind of a threat. Am I to understand that such people really exist? |
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A Candlekeep version of FR?
