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Arioch
Learned Scribe
Italy
222 Posts |
 Posted - 13 Aug 2008 : 09:29:24
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Hi!
After a little playtesting with the 4ed, I found that:
- it wasn't necessary at all, aside for commercial reasons. The 3.5 works fine enough, so no REAL need for it from player' side.
- the 4ed is a "DEMO VERSION". Not all the classes are yet published, the "powers" are too few to allow a true choice... etc.
Since I played the Forgotten Realms for 15y now, following the OFFICIAL realmslore, I still wont to follow it.
Here's my proposal:
Is someone interested in starting a project about converting the Realms back to the 3.5?
I mean: to keep the new realmslore (ok, I know this is the most controversial issue) and adapt it to the 3.5 rules.
I think this could help those not wishing to convert their campaign to the new 4Ed, but are enough open minded to accept the changes in the Realms.
It is just a proposal... maybe a good one, maybe not.
Sorry if someone else already said something similar and I miss it!
(...and maybe is better to wait for the release of the 4ED Campaign Guide)
Mod Edit: Shifted to a more appropriate shelf.
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Edited by - Arioch on 13 Aug 2008 10:34:41
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Ayunken-vanzan
Senior Scribe
Germany
657 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2008 : 11:21:51
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| It seems to me that this is exactly the wrong way. The new "official" realmslore is the real abomination, and this desaster wrought by a design team not willing or not able to care for the setting is nothing which deserves our support. |
"What mattered our lives now? When our world had been torn from us? Folk wept, or drank, or stood staring out over the land, wondering what new horror each dawn would bring."
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Varl
FR/D&D-Links • 2ed Downloads |
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IngoDjan
Learned Scribe
Brazil
146 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2008 : 11:50:30
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| I think both are abominations. And I´ll still play old FR in 3.5. |
Ingo Djan
DUNGEON MASTER AO OF THE DIAMONDS!"I see the future repeat the past. It all is a museum of great news. The Time do not stop." |
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Arioch
Learned Scribe
Italy
222 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2008 : 13:06:29
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Thanks for your answers!
I respect all the different opinions about the new realms. I was just wandering if somebody is going to get the best from the new realm, without loosing the good "old" rule system.
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Shottglazz
Acolyte
Canada
49 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2008 : 14:16:32
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| Interesting idea Arioch...not fond of the fluff changes myself, but for people that are planning on playing the "points of light" campaign, it might be worthwhile... |
Shottglazz
"Take my love, Take my land, Take me where I cannot stand;
I don't care, I'm still free. You can't take the sky from me." |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2008 : 17:15:18
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| Yes, I have to say that they changes to lore are what upset me, not the new rules set. In fact, my outrage at what they have done to the 4e Realmslore is specifically why I will not but the 4e rules books. |
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Tyranthraxus
Senior Scribe
Netherlands
423 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2008 : 17:34:59
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I know what you mean Arioch, 4e is too simple and balanced. It doesn't matter if you're a fighter of wizard because, for example the attack bonus is the same and it reminds me of diablo  .
But why bother? They messed up the Realms as we know it because of the new rules. How else could they incorperate a world full of dragonborn warlocks? |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2008 : 18:23:53
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quote:
Originally posted by HawkinstheDM
Yes, I have to say that they changes to lore are what upset me, not the new rules set.
Seconded. And the assertion that 3.5E was perfectly fine is definitely arguable.
That said, that doesn't mean I don't think this is a good idea for those who like it. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Sian
Senior Scribe
Denmark
596 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2008 : 18:32:30
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| as others said ... its mainly the lorepart of $e that pisses people off ... the rules aren't that bad again (though i'll proberly keep myself in 3.5e so all my fluff books don't die) ... if anything i'll proberly change into using Paizos 3.75e |
what happened to the queen? she's much more hysterical than usual
She's a women, it happens once a month |
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Arioch
Learned Scribe
Italy
222 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2008 : 19:36:15
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My opinion about the 3.5e is that, far from being perfect, there was no need to change it ... (aside from economical interest)
But the rules change is connected with the creation of the new realms...
And I think that the new realmslore is an "abomination" mainly because it was a way to introduce "by force" the 4E, without caring too much for old fans... (and this is indeed very sad!)
Now... let's try to keep the changes (parts of them, if you prefer)! If we don't think about them as a (bad) excuse for introducing a more commercial game system, I think it will be possible to use them for the best.
My idea for lessening part of the "shock" caused by the new realms, is to remove the "excuse" part of the changes.
This is not intended to be a way to completely resolve the issue, just to save what can be saved without a complete refusal of the new.
This was the rationale behind my proposal. Maybe too oversimplified, or maybe I'm simply wrong!
Again, it was just a suggestion about a possible way to run a campaign in the new realms... not another controversy about how "they" destroyed "our" realms.
And, of course, I think that aside for the previews we all read nothing can be said for sure until the release of the Campaign Setting.
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2008 : 20:20:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Arioch
My opinion about the 3.5e is that, far from being perfect, there was no need to change it ... (aside from economical interest)
That's the thing--economical interest is a company's number one priority. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Artemel
Learned Scribe
USA
110 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2008 : 17:19:06
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I might end up using some of the changes.
For instance, in my longest running FR campaign, the adventurers have built up Battlerise, in eastern Cormyr, back to a nice castle. They have also put at least 3 towers up along the Sembian/Cormyr border... all this has happened before the events in Death of the Dragon. They didn't know about the possibility of war between Cormyr and Sembia... they had just had some Sembian adventurers piss them off one too many times.
Now, looking at 4e lore... Cormyr has expanded eastwards. Suits me fine. Actually works with what was already happening. On the other hand, I don't think I'll have King Azoun V be as radical a reformer as the notes I've read so far paint him as. If anything, his upbringing should motivate him to more firmly establish his family's authoritarian rule over Cormyr, not lessen it, especially if they end up in war with Sembia/Shades/whatever.
Just my 2 coppers. |
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Kiaransalyn
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
762 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2008 : 10:05:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Arioch
Here's my proposal:
Is someone interested in starting a project about converting the Realms back to the 3.5?
I mean: to keep the new realmslore (ok, I know this is the most controversial issue) and adapt it to the 3.5 rules.
I think keeping the new Realms Lore is the sticking point. Many don't like the changes to the setting. As for the mechanics, in essence all you do is roll a die, or some dice, and either consult a table or compare rolls.
Maybe we should identify a point where the majority express satisfaction then take that as the start. We can call the $E version the Shadow Realms or Counter Faerun. Our version we can call Faerun. |
Death is Life
Love is Hate
Revenge is Forgiveness
Ken: You from the States?
Jimmy: Yeah. But don't hold it against me.
Ken: I'll try not to... Just try not to say anything too loud or crass. |
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Wenin
Senior Scribe
585 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2008 : 12:56:16
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While I dislike the 4.0 ruleset, I absolutely detest what has happened to the Forgotten Realms setting.
What you're needing to find is someone that likes the changes to the setting, but doesn't like the 4e ruleset. Are there many people that fall into that group? |
Session Reports posted at RPG Geek.
Stem the Tide Takes place in Mistledale.
Dark Curtains - Takes place in the Savage North, starting in Nesmé. I wrapped my campaign into the Hoard of the Dragon Queen, but it takes place in 1372 DR. |
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monknwildcat
Learned Scribe
USA
285 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2008 : 16:05:19
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There will be material in 4E core and FR lore that I'd like to have in my 3.X campaign (e.g. fey stuff, potential future storylines for iconic NPCs). My gaming group won't convert to 4E, whether I wanted to or not, so I'd like to have any positives from 4E lore back in my gaming edition.
If this thread doesn't flush out other interest, feel free to PM me. I don't know the Compendium's parameters or copyright law, but perhaps it's a venue to share any conversions. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2008 : 18:04:43
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| There are a couple of things I will backwards-engineer for my game, like the Warlock Knights of Vassa, but for the most part, 3e is superior to 4e on every level. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Dewaint
Learned Scribe
Germany
148 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2008 : 21:56:41
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In my opinion most of the changes done to the Realms are really annoying. (I don't bother if they were done to better reflect the $E or 'cause WotC try to simplify anything to something like "diablo")
So my campign will evolve differently as for my point of view there is nothing that is canon from 1380 onward, just loads of different options . Not the Realms I know and love anymore 
But I think that it is worth considering how powergroups are pictured. To my own surprise I found it appealing how they react to the turn of events happening between 1370 and 1380.
I have to look further in it, but so far I can imagine to implement somes in a no-spellplague-ever-happened timeline for my FR campaign that remain 3.5E, of course 
In the past I said that I would never buy the new campaignbook, but I have to admit that actualy I'm considering this option   |
Edited by - Dewaint on 22 Aug 2008 21:58:25 |
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Arion Elenim
Senior Scribe
933 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2008 : 23:02:36
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| I think most DMs are already planning on doing this. The best part of the game is that we can pick and choose from the lore salad bar. |
My latest Realms-based short story, about a bard, a paladin of Lathander and the letter of the law, Debts Repaid. It takes place before the "shattering" and gives the bard Arion a last gasp before he plunges into the present.http://candlekeep.com/campaign/logs/log-debts.htm |
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monknwildcat
Learned Scribe
USA
285 Posts |
Posted - 22 Aug 2008 : 23:15:21
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Agreed, Dewaint and Arion!  |
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Sanishiver
Senior Scribe
USA
476 Posts |
Posted - 23 Aug 2008 : 05:07:21
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| I like the idea of keeping the Lore and simply using the 3.5 rules. Add in the good stuff from Paizo and have at it, I say. |
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And no matter how compelling a picture string theory paints, if it does not accurately describe our universe, it will be no more relevant than an elaborate game of Dungeons and Dragons. --paragraph 1, chapter 9, The Elegant Universe by Brian Greene |
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Leon_Stryfe
Acolyte
USA
18 Posts |
Posted - 28 Aug 2008 : 01:36:21
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| While I will not be adhearing to 99% of the 4e changes in my games (I do like the idea of Cormyr expanding), I do have similar plans for one of my games. I plan on taking some established PC's around 100 years into the future, just to test my mettle against that of FR4e's constructors. |
You ask me what I crave above all things? Knowledge. |
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Arioch
Learned Scribe
Italy
222 Posts |
Posted - 28 Aug 2008 : 11:51:45
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OK... I just received my new 4ed Campaing Setting, I quickly went through it... and well, I must admit, there are a LOT of things I do not agree with!
But, there are also good things it could be possible to keep.
Maybe we can start listing them. What do you think about it?
I think we can also elaborate more about Cormyr expansion and powergroups reaction to the "II Time of Trouble" (aka Spellplague), because of the suggestions from Dewaint, Leon_Stryfe and Artemel.
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Edited by - Arioch on 28 Aug 2008 11:59:09 |
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Dewaint
Learned Scribe
Germany
148 Posts |
Posted - 28 Aug 2008 : 22:49:12
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lucky one  . I'am still thinking about.
But anyway, I could immagine that most lore that is not directly connected to the spell plague or gods that were slain can be used (or slightly altered) in such a campaign.
I like the idea of an expanding Cormyr, or how most likely the political structure in the Heartlands can evolve in the next 100 years. I guess this can be also true for other regions as well. |
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2008 : 00:39:01
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So far, I simply know too little of the "New Realms" to judge it all. Some stuff was not as worse as first feared, e.g. what happened to the drow (deities apart).
Yet ... essentially, if you think of your campaigns, most of them will most likely have happened sometime inbetween 1355 and 1375 D.R.. Some gamers might have played with the Netheril box, or some other Arcane Age material, but not that many. That essentially leaves you with some 20,000odd years of Realms untouched by any adventurer's foot - at the table. As in: there is absolutely no reason to use the New Realms that hardly anyone I know likes, if there are 20 millenia of Realms history out there to explore. So let the Wizards flesh out their new stuff, while we take up the no-less monumental task and start creating the Ancient Realms instead?! |
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Gæð a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerûn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
Edited by - Zanan on 29 Aug 2008 00:39:50 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2008 : 19:33:54
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Personally, I think it would be far easier to add-in the few things I like from 4e into the Original Realms, rather then try to work the other way (which many are doing, because 4e lore is so sparse).
For instance, my circa 1400 DR campaign WILL have the Warlock Knights of Vassa. I do not need a whole new setting to use them - I think if most people just treated the 4e FRCG as a book of 'options' and 'suggestions', both groups would get along a lot better.
The FRCG is a great book to Cherrypick from, IMHO; just ignore it as canon.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 29 Aug 2008 19:35:40 |
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Arioch
Learned Scribe
Italy
222 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2008 : 11:05:45
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Markustay I completely agree with you.
Maybe with my previous post I was going a little too far from my original proposal, even if I think it could be useful for some player to know which parts of the new lore are the most liked by other players. [good for a new thread?]
My original proposal was something about converting the new "technical" material (as for example: new classes, powers, spells etc) to the old 3.5 system, but I think that we have to wait for the Player's Guide...
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Snotlord
Senior Scribe
Norway
476 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2008 : 11:54:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Sanishiver
I like the idea of keeping the Lore and simply using the 3.5 rules. Add in the good stuff from Paizo and have at it, I say.
Agreed. We have 3.5 warlocks, dragonborn (half-dragons), tieflings and whatnot. We should be able to play the Post-Spellplague setting with the 3.5 ruleset without much hassle. |
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Dewaint
Learned Scribe
Germany
148 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2008 : 17:00:57
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well, fluff and crunch as well can be added to an "Original Realms" campaign. Guess some stuff can be integrated quite fast and other have to wait (from a timeline point of view).
Well said Markustay, IMO everything published as FR $E should be looked at as options and suggestions.
It could also be an option to intergrate crunchy stuff somewhere within the 20 millennia of Realms history left untoched from the FR designer. Like the Arcane Age Netheril Box introduced some different and interesting aspects, this could also be true for a ... let us say ... Imaskari centered Ancient Realms campaign.
(It feels like a post-nuked-world where no old laws exist anymore(canon) and anarchy rules  ) |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3240 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2008 : 18:14:11
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As I'm readying Blackstaff Tower (which is a VERY fine read, I must say), I had an idea pop in my head. And I couldn't resist posting it over on the WotC boards (here)
quote:
Posted by MattDroz on WotC board
Something from a young wizard I met in my travels across the 'new' Realms.
quote:
Hi, I'm a young wizard that is studying spellcraft and I have an idea for a new spell. How do I go about creating this spell for use by everyone?
Also, I work with a young smith in Waterdeep and we were wondering how to create new items based on some ideas we had.
Thank you,
Azan Leshere
It comes from the fact that in all previous editions, they gave you some idea on what goes into creating a spell and magic items. But there is nothing in the core books with any way of how to create new stuff. Guess that means we're all restricted to items/spells that Wasbro makes. |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
Edited by - Ashe Ravenheart on 30 Aug 2008 18:16:46 |
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Arioch
Learned Scribe
Italy
222 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2008 : 01:26:14
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quote:
It comes from the fact that in all previous editions, they gave you some idea on what goes into creating a spell and magic items. But there is nothing in the core books with any way of how to create new stuff. Guess that means we're all restricted to items/spells that Wasbro makes.
And it is the same for monsters (and classes alike)... It seemed to me that you are actually unable to create your own...
Unce upon a time you can start playing just buying the 3 core books but now...
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Edited by - Arioch on 31 Aug 2008 01:27:23 |
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Christopher_Rowe
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
879 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2008 : 12:39:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Arioch
And it is the same for monsters (and classes alike)... It seemed to me that you are actually unable to create your own...
Unce upon a time you can start playing just buying the 3 core books but now...
You might want to check out pages 171-189 of Chapter 10, "The DM's Toolbox," in the Dungeon Master's Guide. The topics covered in those pages are: Customizing Monsters, Creating Monsters, Creating NPCs, Creating House Rules.
Cheers,
Christopher |
My Realms novel, Sandstorm, is now available for ordering. |
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A proposal... about the new realms and the 3.5ed
