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Sylrae
Learned Scribe
Canada
313 Posts |
 Posted - 18 Jun 2010 : 12:54:03
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House Melarn...
Any details on what other houses are miyeritari?
Did anyone else transform?
Vhaeraun/Eilistraee worshippers?
Eilistraee worshippers only?
All good drow?
And is there a specific date listed that it happens?
It'll be good to know for a future campaign I'm running. The miyeritariwill have wood elf abilities with drow weapon proficiencies (and access to drow cultural feats), but I'd like to know fluff wise who qualifies, and what their numbers are like.
Some of this I could get by rereading lady penitent but that would take more time than I've got for it at the moment.
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Sylrae's Forgotten Realms Fan-Lore Index, with public commenting access to make for easier improvement (WIP) |
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Kilvan
Senior Scribe
Canada
894 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2010 : 13:11:59
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| House Melarn are Miyeritari? As in Halisstra Melarn from WotSQ? I remember that Miyeritari was composed of Dark and Green elves, but how did they survive to become drow? (and the Greens too?) |
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Snowblood
Senior Scribe
Australia
388 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2010 : 13:14:47
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| Eilistraee woreshippers & by default most Vhaeraun worshippers & almost every dark elf with Miyeritari ancestry.....did I miss any??? Oh and a few special ones...but not Drizzt....thankfully.... |
Aryvandaar, Ilythiir, Arnothoi, Orva, Sarphil, Anauria/Asram/Hlondath, Uvaeren, Braceldaur, Ilodhar, Lisenaar, Imaskar, Miyeritar, Orishaar, Shantel Othrieir, Keltormir, Eaerlann, Ammarindar, Siluvanede, Sharrven, Illefarn, Ardeep, Rystal Wood, Evereska are all available here for download:http://phasai.deviantart.com/gallery/
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Sylrae
Learned Scribe
Canada
313 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2010 : 13:32:09
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Not Drizt? hmm. peculiar. ok. *chuckles a bit at the marketing strategies*
@ Kilvan: Yeah, house Melarn are Miyeritari. In the Lady Penitent trilogy it's explained that the dark elves were a subrace of green elves (and it describes said subrace) as well as explaining that the drow were condemned because of their worship of lolth and because of balor-tainted blood, as lolth kept sending a balor to breed with the ilythiiri, to make them more vicious and evil.I don't recall the reason, but the Miyeritari don't have that small taint of demon blood.
I believe the actual physical change into drow is mentioned as being the result of high magic, and also drawing them toward Faezress, so they would be more likely to stay underground and avoid the surface.
is there a list of Miyeritari drow houses somewhere? |
Sylrae's Forgotten Realms Fan-Lore Index, with public commenting access to make for easier improvement (WIP) |
Edited by - Sylrae on 18 Jun 2010 18:05:35 |
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Zireael
Master of Realmslore
Poland
1190 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2010 : 14:34:13
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No, unfortunately. I know because I was looking for the same on WotC boards of old... back when Zanan was there...
*cough* Edit option *cough* |
SiNafay Vrinn, the daughter of Lloth, from Ched Nasad!
http://zireael07.wordpress.com/ |
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2010 : 15:00:06
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| There is next to nothing known about the Houses of Miyeritar. If anything, you will find an odd remark in The Grand History of the Realms or the Lady Penitent series. In my humble opinion, the less is said about this re-transformation into green elves (of all people!), the better. Massive gaffe ... and kick in the teeth of the Cormanythr authors that one. |
Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gæð a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerûn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
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Alisttair
Great Reader
Canada
3054 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2010 : 15:03:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Sylrae
Not Drizt? hmm. peculiar. ok. *chuckles a bit at the marketing strategies*
Nom, but all the "Drizzt clones" created by the various players in their own campaigns do... |
Karsite Arcanar (Most Holy Servant of Karsus)
Anauria - Survivor State of Netheril as penned by me:
http://www.dmsguild.com/m/product/172023 |
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woodwwad
Learned Scribe
USA
267 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2010 : 20:24:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Alisttair
quote:
Originally posted by Sylrae
Not Drizt? hmm. peculiar. ok. *chuckles a bit at the marketing strategies*
Nom, but all the "Drizzt clones" created by the various players in their own campaigns do...
By Sune's big tits, I hate Drizzt clones. For that matter, I hate Drizzt but nothing worse than an uncreative player that tries to pull that trash. I had someone do that in my Ravenloft game (this was 15 years ago) & I hadn't ready any of those books at the time. |
Check out my reviews on youtube of Forgotten Realms and other rpg products. http://www.youtube.com/user/woodwwad?feature=mhum |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4685 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jun 2010 : 23:48:30
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Let me see if I can sort this out as I understand it.
In the Grad History it stated all dark elves were Green elves (It did not matter where they lived).
Most Miyeritari elves were killed by the Dark Disaster.
The Descent forced all dark elves to become light sensitive, then became known as Drow (Though it seems a few dak elves might still have been on the surface after that).
At the defeat/death of Eilistraee all of her followers became Brown elves (and allowed to return to the surface without light blindness) and the rest remained Drow.
Alignment did not matter and still does not.
The only change Grand History provided was the "darker" skin Elves that lived with the Green Elves - were also Green elves (just darker skin tone).
You confused yet? |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jun 2010 : 00:14:18
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ALL Green Elves have a brownish hue to their skin, some darker then others, but the Illythiir were the darkest of them all (maybe from being in the far south... who knows).
'Green' is really a misnomer - although some do, rarely show a slight greenish cast to their skin, that is usually a mark of some sea-Elf ancestry (as is blue). I would prefer to call the umbrella-group 'Wood Elves' - that is a much clearer name/definition for them.
Ergo, Green Elves, Wild Elves, and Dark Elves are all types of 'Wood Elves', with skin ranging from tan to nut-brown; they prefer to live in forests - in the actual trees themselves ofttimes - then on the ground and in cities, as do the 'Light Elves' (my new Umbrella-term for Eladrin, High, Gray, Star, Silver, Moon, Sun, Gold, Silver, etc... Elves.... Yeesh...)
I'd prefer to use the OD&D term of Gray Elf (not to be confused with the FR derogatory term of Grey Elf - more confusion), but since 'High Elves' are now incorporated into that we really can't. There were 3 groups originally, PLUS the Drow... oh... and sea Elves. Always had sea Elves too...
Ergo, 'Light Elves' are what they all were back in Faerie, and their more 'rustic' cousins were called lots of things, but mostly 'green', for their preference for living amongst trees and plants.
I bet you thought 'Going Green' is a relatively new concept? 
Two rather large, extended family groups that got split into dozens - perhaps hundreds on countless worlds - of sub-groups. Drow are simply cursed Dark Elves (a curse that wasn't very fair or selective, I might add). Saying a Drow is a Dark Elf is like saying a Lycanthrope is like a Human, or a Pureblood Yuan-ti is like a Human, or a Vampire is just like a Human.
Once changed/cursed, you are something else entirely. Living Drow are NOT Elves - never were - they became something different. Doesn't matter what you read - most of what we read in canon is written from a human perspective. Listen to the Elves and Drow themselves - Elves don't consider Drow Elves, and Drow don't consider themselves Elves. Humans and other races make that mistake. If an Elf called you a Monkey because your ancient ancestors were primates, wouldn't you find that insulting?
Do Vulcans consider Romulans Vulcans? NO, that would be absurd - too much time has passed.
Once the curse was lifted (post-3e), THEN Drow became Elves again, just as a human cured of a curse (pick one) would be considered human once again. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 21 Jun 2010 03:39:37 |
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Sylrae
Learned Scribe
Canada
313 Posts |
Posted - 19 Jun 2010 : 08:43:01
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Well, the curse technically gets lifted right near the end of 3e (early 1380s I believe). I don't like the idea of calling them all wood elves, because I played alot in the 3e era, and I've gotten used to the RoF explanation that wood elves are intermingled wild, sun, and moon elves split off and formed into a different race (they're elves, but their subrace breeds true instead of producing sun/wild/moon elves), so I've gotten to seeing Wood Elves as a different subrace.
Some of this I already knew, but I did some research tonight into the topic further.
Sources:
Cormanthyr, Empire of Elves.
The Lady Penitent novel series
FR Wikia Wiki.
Dark Elves
Dark elves are what the drow were before the descent, and what many of them became just after Eilistraee’s death.
They have dark brown skin, and glossy black hair, according to the Lady Penitent series, though elsewhere they were mentioned as having dark brown skin and blond to white hair (can anyone tell me what book I read that in?).
History of Dark Elves
• Miyeritar got nearly exterminated. And many atrocities were visited upon them by Aryvandaar (also known as the Vyshaantar empire), an expansionist Sun Elven empire who occupied their country and controlled them by force.
• Ilythiir, the country of elves favored by Lolth, retaliated, and destroyed the realms of Shantel Othreier (the closest outpost of Vyshaantar power).
• Lolth sent the balor Wendonai to help the ilythiiri win the fourth crown war.
• Wendonai appeared many times over millennia to breed with drow and make the majority of the race have his tainted demon blood..
• Ilythiir started winning the war, though they had resorted to tactics and war practices that were cruel, vicious, and very barbaric.
• They ilythiiri are cast down and transformed by high magic, magic, worked by the mages and clerics of the elves of Keltormir, Aryvandaar, and some other elven enclaves, against the dark elves of ancient Ilythiir and their allies in retaliation for the destruction of Shantel Othreier.
• This high magic was performed at the site of a dark elf temple to Corellon Larethian from the time when Lolth, Vhaeraun, and Eilistraee were members of the Seldarine. The high magic to cast the down drow is done to include the Ilythiir's allies as well: not all who were cursed actually deserved it.
• The drow(ilythiiri and miyeritari alike) begin to hate the surface elves for doing this to them.
• The miyeritari did not approve of the ilythiiri behavior, or the consorting with demons, and they were largely worshippers of the elven gods who remained in the Seldarine, as well as Eilistraee.
• Little known effects of the High magic of the descent:
o Faerzress is created to burrow into the earth and create tunnels and caves beneath the world.
o Faerzress inherently blocks teleportation magic and divination.
o The drow are drawn to faerzress, so they are less likely to leave their caves.
o Faerzress means "magic that remains", because of its inherent magical properties. Faer, magic, and Z’ress, To hold dominance/remain in force
o With the words reversed, the resulting term takes on an entirely different layer of meaning. "Dominating magic." Magic that compelled.
• While the miyeritari were cursed as the ilythiiri were, the inherent evilness that drow possess comes from Wendonai’s taint. Those of miyeritari blood for example have the same yearning for companionship, for family, come instinctively to them, as any other elf, and it is only the cruelties they suffer as children that beat it into dormancy.
• Kraanfhaor's Door actually contained dozens of selu’kiira. One selu’kiira from each House whose patriarch or matriarch survived the Killing Storm. (As opposed to being the entrance to a dungeon or something).
• Some drow begin to return to the surface in the late 1360s and early 1370s, around the same time that the magic of the faerzress begins to decrease.
• A Priestess of Lolth acquired an ancient artifact so she could go to the surface without losing her drow abilities. Through her, Lolth used this artifact to extend that ability to all natural drow magic, though some magical items are still enchanted in a way that they do not function in sunlight.(Starlight and Shadows)
• Kiaransalee orders her followers to use magic to cause the faerzress in the underdark to grow stronger, and interfere greatly with divination and teleportation magic.
• A small number of drow, led by a miyeritari descended drow, practice high magic to stop the faerzress progression.
• Kiaransalee has her name wiped from the face of faerûn by those same high mages, which eliminates her worshippers and makes her fade to nothing (or wither up to insignificance)
• Eilistraee kills Vhaeraun, and adds the ranks of his worshippers and his domains to her own, becoming the Masked Lady.
• Eilistraee is killed by Lolth’s champion.
• Within minutes of Eilistraee’s death, the drow high mages complete a spell of high magic, with divine assistance, that reverses the magic of the descent. However, not all drow are cured of their curse. Only those few without taint. Miyeritari, and those who follow the dance. By Eilistraee's grace, they too transformed.
• Miyeritari Houses
o Elpragh
o Melarn
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Sylrae's Forgotten Realms Fan-Lore Index, with public commenting access to make for easier improvement (WIP) |
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Sylrae
Learned Scribe
Canada
313 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2010 : 10:32:44
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Also, I've been thinking about the Dark elves. when I looked at their accomplishments pre-descent, particularly in miyeritar, they were the high magic and art masters. That makes them sound closer to moon/sun elves in terms of abilities, even if they liked to do the nature thing with the living in the trees.
Under the 4e classification, I believe the dark elves count as eladrin, not elves.
Which means (at least to me), that I'd treat them with rules of 'as moon/sun elf'.
Slight Aside:
In my next game, im using the pathfinder system. Moon/sun elves will use the pathfinder rules for elves, and favored class:wizard added back in.Dark Elves will use those same rules, but with drow weapon proficiencies and cultural feats, and drow character traits (I'm coming up with new ones, and converting the regional feats into pf style traits). Then, wood/wild elves are going to also have a set of racial abilities that will be identical save for having slightly different weapon proficiencies for race. Drow proper probably wont be player accessible in this game, though I may allow the half-drow. |
Sylrae's Forgotten Realms Fan-Lore Index, with public commenting access to make for easier improvement (WIP) |
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Zireael
Master of Realmslore
Poland
1190 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2010 : 10:38:22
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quote:
mentioned as having dark brown skin and blond to white hair (can anyone tell me what book I read that in?).
FRCS, Races of Faerun, Lost Empires of Faerun, Cormanthyr? I'm not sure, but these seem likely candidates...
quote:
o Faerzress means "magic that remains", because of its inherent magical properties. Faer, magic, and Z#65533;ress, To hold dominance/remain in force
o With the words reversed, the resulting term takes on an entirely different layer of meaning. "Dominating magic." Magic that compelled.
I so loove this. Thanks!
And BTW, the priestess of Lloth mentioned is Liriel Baenre. |
SiNafay Vrinn, the daughter of Lloth, from Ched Nasad!
http://zireael07.wordpress.com/ |
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Sylrae
Learned Scribe
Canada
313 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2010 : 19:14:26
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Yeah. I knew that. most of the stuff in that timeline came from me skimming through my novel collection. that's why it took me like 8 hours to respond after I saw markustay's post. I supopose I didn't list starlight and shadows as a source. that one came from memory.
Some of those are minor rewordings from lady penitent 2 and 3(change of tense, etc.)
Glad it was useful for more than my own games. :) |
Sylrae's Forgotten Realms Fan-Lore Index, with public commenting access to make for easier improvement (WIP) |
Edited by - Sylrae on 20 Jun 2010 19:15:15 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2010 : 19:45:50
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RoF is unreliable - its riddled with errors. I tend to ignore that source because of the number of inconsistencies with other sources.
And that's all I'm going to say about that.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 20 Jun 2010 19:47:04 |
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2010 : 20:03:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Sylrae
Dark Elves
Dark elves are what the drow were before the descent, and what many of them became just after Eilistraee’s death.
They have dark brown skin, and glossy black hair, according to the Lady Penitent series, though elsewhere they were mentioned as having dark brown skin and blond to white hair (can anyone tell me what book I read that in?).
Many? Not exactly. Some would be more applicable, since limitations would and do apply (heritage, religion, current behavior). For would you expect a chaotic evil drow priestess who is in Lolth's full favor being "turned" into a post-Eilistraee-death "dark elf" because of some thousand year old drop of Miyeritari blood in her veins? As in: being un-tainted? Like *snap a finger* and she suddenly realize some "world truths" and runs away to join her sisters dancing beneath the stars?
As for the change, for the love of *enter the FR god of your choice here* I cannot understand what drove the author of TGHotR to changing the whole dark elven history as given in Core and FR books (said Cormanthyr) to his "they were originally green elves" stuff.
But then again, we did that to death during these last few years and if people want to swallow it, so be it. |
Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gæð a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerûn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
Edited by - Zanan on 20 Jun 2010 20:04:40 |
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Sylrae
Learned Scribe
Canada
313 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jun 2010 : 00:58:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Zanan
Many? Not exactly. Some would be more applicable, since limitations would and do apply (heritage, religion, current behavior). For would you expect a chaotic evil drow priestess who is in Lolth's full favor being "turned" into a post-Eilistraee-death "dark elf" because of some thousand year old drop of Miyeritari blood in her veins? As in: being un-tainted? Like *snap a finger* and she suddenly realize some "world truths" and runs away to join her sisters dancing beneath the stars?
Not quite. But partially: Only those few without taint. Miyeritari, such as yourselves, and those who follow the dance. By Eilistraee's grace, they too will have been transformed. That means any worshippers of Eilistraee (and by extension, Vhaeraun), and all those of miyeritari descent who do not at any point in their lineage descend from Wendonai. The only grey area is those few ilythiiiri drow without any lineage from Wendonai.
So it would actually be kindof interesting for her. She would turn back into a dark elf, become blinded (no darkvision) and likely get killed in the moment of weakness. If she did not die, she'd be a non-drow worshipper of Lolth. lolth may cast her out, or keep her: I'm not sure if there is an official stance on that. There probably isn't. If lolth doesn't cast her out, she'd need to quickly learn to compensate for her new blindness, and need to reaffirm her station left right and center or be eliminated by her competition. She'd likely be extra pissed at the 'good' dark elves.
quote:
As for the change, for the love of *enter the FR god of your choice here* I cannot understand what drove the author of TGHotR to changing the whole dark elven history as given in Core and FR books (said Cormanthyr) to his "they were originally green elves" stuff.
Upon double checking, and upon rereading chunks of the Lady Penitent, I believe the confusion lies in that Miyeritar was not just Dark Elves, it was dark AND green, both of which get turned into drow. THat explains some of the unusually tough drow who lack drow frailties in the novels. And ilythiir was mostly dark elves. But I believe also with a few green in the mix.
quote:
But then again, we did that to death during these last few years and if people want to swallow it, so be it.
If the retcons be small enough, or are additive retcons that don't contradict much previously published, I tend to not mind them.
I don't much care for 4e or spellplague, but there is no reason I can't set a game earlier. I like the crazy **** that happened in 3e because it gives me a solid foundation of crazy **** to work with in a campaign, and I have a big list of "what date is it: okay this happens here, this happens here, this happens here, etc." It makes the realms more of a living changing place. I may not like all the changes, but if I seriously object, the players can go out of their way to stop them. If I want to run a game in 2e realms after ToT and be secure in the fact that less crazy **** will happen, I can do that too.
Mod edit: Language, please. 
Edit: Oops. |
Sylrae's Forgotten Realms Fan-Lore Index, with public commenting access to make for easier improvement (WIP) |
Edited by - Sylrae on 21 Jun 2010 02:29:21 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jun 2010 : 02:24:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Sylrae
Edit: I'm confused as to what you're referring to. I had filtered out my own curse words after I wrote the post, and it appears to be exactly the same as when I posted it.
The word "poopy" was inserted by myself, in place of a similar word used to great comedic effect by the late George Carlin. Last paragraph, first line. |
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Sylrae
Learned Scribe
Canada
313 Posts |
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jun 2010 : 09:04:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Sylrae
quote:
Originally posted by Zanan
Many? Not exactly. Some would be more applicable, since limitations would and do apply (heritage, religion, current behavior). For would you expect a chaotic evil drow priestess who is in Lolth's full favor being "turned" into a post-Eilistraee-death "dark elf" because of some thousand year old drop of Miyeritari blood in her veins? As in: being un-tainted? Like *snap a finger* and she suddenly realize some "world truths" and runs away to join her sisters dancing beneath the stars?
Not quite. But partially: Only those few without taint. Miyeritari, such as yourselves, and those who follow the dance. By Eilistraee's grace, they too will have been transformed. That means any worshippers of Eilistraee (and by extension, Vhaeraun), and all those of miyeritari descent who do not at any point in their lineage descend from Wendonai. The only grey area is those few ilythiiiri drow without any lineage from Wendonai.
Not exactly, for they are speaking solely of the old dark elves and modern day drow of Miyeritar descent. Those green elves of Miyeritar never got changed into drow (no word about that in any source), but they much like most of them were apparently slain by the Dark Disaster anyways.
quote:
So it would actually be kindof interesting for her. She would turn back into a dark elf, become blinded (no darkvision) and likely get killed in the moment of weakness. If she did not die, she'd be a non-drow worshipper of Lolth. Lolth may cast her out, or keep her: I'm not sure if there is an official stance on that. There probably isn't. If lolth doesn't cast her out, she'd need to quickly learn to compensate for her new blindness, and need to reaffirm her station left right and center or be eliminated by her competition. She'd likely be extra pissed at the 'good' dark elves.
That is actually the crux that never got answered. I sincerely doubt that Eilistraee's grace will change a full-blooded diehard and evil Lolthite cleric who commited evil sacrifices all her life, just because somewhere down the line in her ancestry there's Miyeritari blood in her. For there is not reason to believe that all Miyeritari dark elves were goodly folk, for they, much like any other elven subrace or nation had their good and their bad folk. Ot at least people who did not much care about this or that religion.
quote:
quote:
As for the change, for the love of *enter the FR god of your choice here* I cannot understand what drove the author of TGHotR to changing the whole dark elven history as given in Core and FR books (said Cormanthyr) to his "they were originally green elves" stuff.
Upon double checking, and upon rereading chunks of the Lady Penitent, I believe the confusion lies in that Miyeritar was not just Dark Elves, it was dark AND green, both of which get turned into drow. THat explains some of the unusually tough drow who lack drow frailties in the novels. And ilythiir was mostly dark elves. But I believe also with a few green in the mix.
As I said above, there is (AFAIK) no official word that any green elf of Miyeritar was transformed into drow. The "curse" solely affected the dark elves of Faerûn.
quote:
quote:
But then again, we did that to death during these last few years and if people want to swallow it, so be it.
If the retcons be small enough, or are additive retcons that don't contradict much previously published, I tend to not mind them.
I for one do not consider the change in ancestry of an entire sub-race (reason: "just because") a small thing.
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Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gæð a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerûn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
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Zireael
Master of Realmslore
Poland
1190 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jun 2010 : 09:19:22
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quote:
As I said above, there is (AFAIK) no official word that any green elf of Miyeritar was transformed into drow. The "curse" solely affected the dark elves of Faerûn.
I don't recall any green elf transformed into drow either. I think they got changed into sharn (see Blackstaff and Monsters of Faerun)...
I just found a reference to Clan Sethomiir as a Miyeritari clan (in GHotR):
quote:
Like their kin elsewhere, the dark elves of Narathmault [#8211;10400, #8211;9750] are transformed into drow by the will of the Seldarine, shattering their bindings over a host of fiends who swiftly turn on their former masters. Led by Undrek of Clan Sethomiir, the drow and their minotaur servants are forced to flee Narathmault, traveling south and east into the underground caverns beneath the present-day Plateau of Thay.
Clan Aelryth and Clan Hune of Miyeritar are also mentioned in GHotR. |
SiNafay Vrinn, the daughter of Lloth, from Ched Nasad!
http://zireael07.wordpress.com/ |
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Sylrae
Learned Scribe
Canada
313 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jun 2010 : 10:39:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Zanan
Not exactly, for they are speaking solely of the old dark elves and modern day drow of Miyeritar descent. Those green elves of Miyeritar never got changed into drow (no word about that in any source), but they much like most of them were apparently slain by the Dark Disaster anyways.
I suppose I just assumed they were lumped in together, as allies of ilythiir.
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So it would actually be kindof interesting for her. She would turn back into a dark elf, become blinded (no darkvision) and likely get killed in the moment of weakness. If she did not die, she'd be a non-drow worshipper of Lolth. Lolth may cast her out, or keep her: I'm not sure if there is an official stance on that. There probably isn't. If lolth doesn't cast her out, she'd need to quickly learn to compensate for her new blindness, and need to reaffirm her station left right and center or be eliminated by her competition. She'd likely be extra pissed at the 'good' dark elves.
That is actually the crux that never got answered. I sincerely doubt that Eilistraee's grace will change a full-blooded diehard and evil Lolthite cleric who commited evil sacrifices all her life, just because somewhere down the line in her ancestry there's Miyeritari blood in her. For there is not reason to believe that all Miyeritari dark elves were goodly folk, for they, much like any other elven subrace or nation had their good and their bad folk. Ot at least people who did not much care about this or that religion.
But it's not all divine magic. It's high magic + divine magic that allowed the drow to become dark elves again. I dont think the distinction of good drow bad drow was made in all cases. Otherwise drizzt would be a dark elf again. And the evil drow priestess would only transform if she was Miyeritari, AND had no balor blood.
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As I said above, there is (AFAIK) no official word that any green elf of Miyeritar was transformed into drow. The "curse" solely affected the dark elves of Faerûn.
I got the impression from the stuff I read that it was the Elves of Ilythiir any of their allies.
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I for one do not consider the change in ancestry of an entire sub-race (reason: "just because") a small thing.
What was the big change? I don't remember Cormanthyr Empire of Elves being contradicted in Lady Penitent other than the haircolor thing I mentioned. Just added new details. Could you explain what I overlooked? |
Sylrae's Forgotten Realms Fan-Lore Index, with public commenting access to make for easier improvement (WIP) |
Edited by - Sylrae on 21 Jun 2010 11:17:47 |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jun 2010 : 20:41:27
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And from what I got from the Lady Penitant books, that hypothetical priestess would STILL have to be good to be transformed, even without the taint, and with Miyeritar blood. Otherwise, she'd still just be another dorw priestess of Lolth. At the least, she'd have to be non-evil. As for the Illythiiri, I don't recall the Miyeritari dark elves being their allies- just their kin. And a whole different culture, at that.
BTW, I agree with the curse not being very fair- an aspect that I made heavy use of in my homebrew realm with a slightly different origin of drow being renegades and traitors from other sub-races who were cursed by the Seldarine and High Magic into becoming as dark in appearance as they were inside. And it got passed down to their decendants, regardless of alighnment, religion, or even what race they originally came from. (ie- whether the original traitors were gray, high, or wood elf, they all ended up looking the same, and bred true. Although some triats got handed down, which explains some of the differences in hair or eye color among my drow...)
And no, Lady Penitant didn't contradict Cormanthyr AFAIK. Does anyone know roughly how many drow were affected? I'd assume there were quite a few, but it's hard to tell from the novels alone. |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jun 2010 : 20:55:20
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I had a a kernel of an idea, that Lord Karsus (at WotC, Dagnirion here) ran with in the Elven Netbook (Elves of Faerûn now).
The Green Elves of Miyeritar, those few who survived the Dark Disaster - and they were already very-much in the minority there - also fled into the underdark, but DID NOT receive 'Lolth's Blessing' (referred to as Corellon's curse by the surface Elves), and did not become Drow. They probably followed their Dark-Elven kin out of fear of retribution from the Aryvandaar Elves.
And eventually those Elves, now cut-off from both their surface brethren and subterranean kin, became known as the Rockseer (Night Below boxed set). Merely a legend (non-canon), of course... but every so often persons in the Under-Realms report seeing strange, Non-Drow Elves... mostly out of the corner of their eye... |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 21 Jun 2010 20:57:13 |
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jun 2010 : 23:28:32
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BTW, the story of the Rockseer elves is actually given in that box (we just entered book 3 again, hence I know). They consider themselves traitors to the elven cause and shunned by Corellon et al, because they did not aid him (or something along that line).
BTW II, I'd rather pursue a different line alltogether and make the elves distant relatives of the various fey, perhaps of the feywild of earlier times. Thus it is far easier to establish descents of each particular elven subrace, including the rockseers. |
Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gæð a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerûn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
Edited by - Zanan on 21 Jun 2010 23:30:42 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jun 2010 : 23:56:46
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Ummmm.. yeah... the Rockseer legend works perfectly within what we know of the Green elves of Miyeritar (which is almost nothing).
If the Aryvandaar elves felt the Seldarine were on 'their side' (which they quite obviously were), then those siding against them - Miyeritar simply by refusing to be their sock-puppets - would of course be considered to be going against the will of the Seldarine.
And by 'Seldarine' I mean Corellon, because we all know that the rest of the pantheon are a bunch of spineless followers of that tyrannical deity. 
"What? You dare defy me? I mean... errr... you burned some trees?!"
"Blasphemy! I curse you and all your children, and everyone you are related to, for all-time (even if they be completely innocent of this matter)!"
"Oh, and... ummmm... this has NOTHING to do with the fact that you guys all remind me of me ex..." 
That guy makes Cyric look like Barney the Dinosaur. 
Have I mentioned I HATE Elves? |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 21 Jun 2010 23:57:56 |
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jun 2010 : 09:18:40
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| Markustay ... you are not cynical about this, are you? |
Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gæð a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerûn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
Edited by - Zanan on 23 Jun 2010 09:19:49 |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jun 2010 : 21:19:16
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Haughty, self-serving (to the point of killing hundreds of thousands, perhaps millions of sentient beings whenever they desire), jealous, racists, under-handed (stole the Nether scrolls so that humans wouldn't be 'on par' with them), thrive on double-standards, forced an entire (related!) culture into imprisonment without any regard for their survival (Drow ate each other when first forced into the Underdark - that is CANON), etc, etc...
Elves make Nazis look like rank amateurs.
Malignant to the point where things like Illithids and Beholders pale in comparison - perhaps a greater threat to the world then all other 'monsters' combined.
Yeah... I have a bit of a problem with FR Elves...
There was good reason why Araunshee got tired of Corellon's condescending manner.. Corellon was 'nice'... nice in the same way a master is nice when he feeds his dogs...
I had a theory going over on the WotC site that Corellon was simply the Elven name for Asmodeus... but then again, Asmodeus isn't nearly evil enough. But picture about it - Corellon, as the 'Horned God' (Antlers), master of the 'wild hunt'. Elves (in folklore) are known for their feasting and revelry... dare I say 'debauchery'? A group of beings with pointed ears (and some say tails!) and skewed eyes that lead mortals into temptation...
I truly believe the Elves are related to a certain group of extra-planer beings, but it sure as hell isn't the Eladrin.
Anyhow, that is all just my personal take, based on canon observations, but certainly not canon in-and-of itself. Make of it what you will. I used to drive folks over at WotC boards crazy with these theories.
And once again, I am waxing nostalgic for the heated debates I shared with Lord Karsus...  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jun 2010 : 21:39:51
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Hmm.... You know, I just finished an interesting book on lore of "RL" elves (ie- fairies, and such) and there have been some tales where they are equated with demons and devils or fallen angels. One theory was that they were the angels who were "duped" into following Satan, and when He fell, they were kicked out too, but did not fall as far, being only maginally guilty, so they ended up in lakes, underground, in the air, or in forests or mountains. Mind, this was a christianized origin from long after they had been around. but it's interesting that you mentioned an infernal origin. And the Horned God (much older than the devil, believe me) does have some associations with the dead, too, as does the "wild hunt" so...
Eit: time runneth over.... |
The Goddess is alive, and magic is afoot.
"Where Science ends, Magic begins" -Spiral, Uncanny X-Men #491
"You idiots! You've captured their STUNT doubles!" -Spaceballs
Lothir's character background/stats: http://forum.candlekeep.com/pop_profile.asp?mode=display&id=5469
My stories:
http://z3.invisionfree.com/Mickeys_Comic_Tavern/index.php?showforum=188
Lothir, courtesy of Sylinde (Deviant Art)/Luaxena (Chosen of Eilistraee)
http://sylinde.deviantart.com/#/d2z6e4u |
Edited by - Alystra Illianniis on 23 Jun 2010 21:46:31 |
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Brace Cormaeril
Learned Scribe
294 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jun 2010 : 23:31:12
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I'm a little embarrassed to say so, but I haven't yet read LK and MT's "Elves of Faerun". I googled a bit, and just got into the NWNvault, which was a dead end...
Can someone hook me up with a link to the .pdf? |
The Silver Fire's Blade: A Novella in Nine Parts, Available Soon, in the Adventuring Forum!
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Which drow turn back to green elves?
