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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
 Posted - 02 Aug 2005 : 18:45:25
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Hey, what is everyone's opinion of the Elves section in Races of the Wild? I found it to be very nice in describing what is expected of an elven character and just a good explanation of their mindset. Also, I really liked the addition of a couple of Elven gods, which I thought were neat ideas. I have fully embraced the use of this tome into my Realms campaign, along with those new gods...
Anyone else have an opinion?
C-Fb
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Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
Posted - 03 Aug 2005 : 04:55:19
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quote:
Originally posted by CrennenFaerieBane
Hey, what is everyone's opinion of the Elves section in Races of the Wild? I found it to be very nice in describing what is expected of an elven character and just a good explanation of their mindset. Also, I really liked the addition of a couple of Elven gods, which I thought were neat ideas. I have fully embraced the use of this tome into my Realms campaign, along with those new gods...
Anyone else have an opinion?
C-Fb
Complete Book of Elves from 2E was a much better book. |
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
Posted - 03 Aug 2005 : 16:42:37
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quote:
Originally posted by warlockco
quote:
Originally posted by CrennenFaerieBane
Hey, what is everyone's opinion of the Elves section in Races of the Wild? I found it to be very nice in describing what is expected of an elven character and just a good explanation of their mindset. Also, I really liked the addition of a couple of Elven gods, which I thought were neat ideas. I have fully embraced the use of this tome into my Realms campaign, along with those new gods...
Anyone else have an opinion?
C-Fb
Complete Book of Elves from 2E was a much better book.
Well, I do agree with that - but I just meant I thought that this book was done fairly well with the name generator and the typical Elven village and the new gods mentioned. I know the Elves book was a lot thicker tome, but I think some of the new weapons were really cool as well.
C-Fb |
Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
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Vangelor
Learned Scribe
USA
183 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2006 : 12:21:55
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I was somewhat dissatisfied with RotW, especially the portrayal of the elves. Lots of little things, from the symbol of the agriculture god (oak is really not a food plant) to the notion of non-specialized culture in which every elf learns to do everything:
I need I cloak, so I gather flax seed, plant it, cultivate it, harvest it, pound the stalks into fiber, spin the fibers into thread, dye the thread... oh, wait, I need to make dyes first, so I gather the herbs, steep them in a pot... I need a pot? Alright, I go and dig clay, wash the sand out, get it workable and make a pot, then fire it in a kiln... Kiln? I need to build that. And need to make charcoal to fire it, before I have a pot to make my dyes... Then I dye my thread, weave the cloth (hope I don't need to learn to build a loom!), sew the cloth into a cloak... and do all of this with such skill that my elven cloak is a Wondrous Item.
Generalists do not make masterworks. Experts do, through years of dedication. Elven chain, boots, cloaks... all the things elves make better than anyone else almost have to be made by an expert.
A culture can be decentralized and centered on individual goals and desires while still being interdependent, with specialists perfecting their preferred craft, and using that skill to barter for services they cannot supply themselves. This is pretty much what defines a civilization. Everyone having to be able to do everything just to cover the necessities is the mark of a subsistence economy, which leaves precious little room for art or culture.
Having hundreds of years to acquire these skills only balances out so much, if elves need to eat every day. I know people who make chainmail. It is a tedious, time-consuming business. Making near-magical Elven chain would require more effort, and you aren't goint to see a society producing these in any numbers if those crafting them also have to farm, cook, build and repair houses, sew their clothes, raise their children, make their candles, barrels, glassware, pottery, and so on.
I just don't think it makes much sense at all, especially in terms of elven cultures we have been exposed to in the Realms, from Cormanthyr to Evermeet to Tethir to Evereska, where we see elves who are very much specialists in their chosen fields. |
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warlockco
Master of Realmslore
USA
1695 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2006 : 00:53:16
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One thing I have found with the various Races books and Environmental books. It seems the first is the best.
Races of Stone, has more useful items in it than the other Races books. But wasn't entirely useful unless you were a Dwarf/Gnome/Goliath.
Races of the Wild had some useful stuff, but not as much as Races of Stone.
Races of Destiny was practically useless.
Races of the Dragon was useful for the insight into 3E kobolds, plus it had some interesting stuff.
Overall though the Race books in 3E, just don't compare to the Complete series from 2E though.
Frostburn, has the most interesting stuff and didn't seem to "cliche" too much like Sandstorm did (too many Dune references for my taste).
Stormwrack just seemed meh to me, for some reason, definately did not care for the Darfellan's (sp?) that were introduced. |
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Crennen FaerieBane
Master of Realmslore
USA
1378 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2006 : 06:39:14
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I think the books all depend on the audience. There are a lot of books that I think are very well done in the Race series from a beginners point of view. Remember that the majority of these books in the Core series aren't for veterans, but for newbies. They make a good introduction and give more choices.
C-Fb |
Still rockin' the Fey'ri style. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2006 : 16:09:12
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quote:
Originally posted by warlockco
Overall though the Race books in 3E, just don't compare to the Complete series from 2E though.
But what if you found most of the Complete books useless? I've got a dozen of them, and just about all of the material I found useful could be condensed into one book. |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2006 : 16:15:33
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| The main things that managed to make it into 2e lore from the Complete books (from a Realms standpoint) seemed to be Battleragers and Bladesingers . . . oh, and Avariels. Other than that, to me at least, there were kits that were more or less best summarized in the Player's Option books. |
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Jindael
Senior Scribe
USA
357 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2006 : 19:13:08
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CrennenFaerieBane: I enjoyed Races of the Wild. Not as much as I enjoyed the 2ed Complete book of elves, but I enjoyed it. It was fairly obvious that someone had a copy of the 2e CBoE as they were writing this, and were trying to convert it.
I did really enjoy the name generator, some of the unique elven weapons and some of the elven PrC’s. The Champion of Corellon and the Wildrunner in particular have very strong Kung-fu, both in numbers and in flavor. The addition of a few more elven gods was much appreciated, IMO.
However, I didn’t like the way they described the elven day to day lives and most of the stuff that Vangelor had described for exactly the same reasons. I think that people need to separate “self-reliant” from “chaotic.” They don’t always mean the same thing.
I won’t touch the elven age issue, as it’s been discussed many times, except to say that I disagree with PHB cannon on almost all counts concerning the age of demi-humans.
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
[quote]But what if you found most of the Complete books useless? I've got a dozen of them, and just about all of the material I found useful could be condensed into one book.
I found that only the C. Fighters, C. Priests and C. Elves were of any use at all, and the C. Priest (Or was it called C. Cleric at the time? Bleah on edition changes) was 99% useless in a FR game where the specialty priests were already detailed for you.
Ignoring the C. Fighter, so as to stay on topic, the C. Elves was obviously written by people who really like elves. (If memory serves, it was a husband/wife team, right?) The upside to C. Elves being written by elf lovers was that it was chock full of fantastic goodies for elves. The downside was that it is considered overpowered and ‘munchkin-y’. Just go to the boards-that-shall-not-be-named and try and discuss it. C. Elves was chock full of interesting fluff, whereas RotW had a lot of crunch, which isn’t a surprise, but does detract from the appeal of the product, insofar as elves are concerned.
Being as I’m not currently playing right now, I haven’t actually done anything with the book, but if I were to run, I would add the new gods, but I would probably make the process of them arriving in Toril as part of a campaign, rather than just having them pop into existence, or retcon them in. I really enjoy the Thinblade and all of its brothers and sisters and would use them in a heartbeat. Although, since it's "core", doesn't that mean Greyhawk?
The rest of the book was mildly disappointing.
Speaking of disappointing elf books, avoid the Quintessential Elves. Not only is it dry and overly crunchy, (and very, very bland crunch at that) the author openly admits in the author notes that he was not at all enthused about writing a book on elves, and the only thing that got him into it was writing rules about aerial combat, which IMO, don’t need to be in a book about elves.
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"You don't have a Soul. You are a Soul. You have a body."
-- C.S. Lewis |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2006 : 11:43:46
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| The only part I liked about ROTW was the Ruathar Prc. |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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Races of the Wild
