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keftiu
Senior Scribe
656 Posts |
 Posted - 14 Jun 2021 : 03:58:10
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| Irennan, does all the new content in the newest Ravenloft book not count as worldbuilding to you? There’s a ton of new or radically-altered Domains in there. |
4e fangirl. Here to queer up the Realms. |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3802 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2021 : 04:05:49
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Like I answered to your post where you mentioned it:
quote:
Exandria wasn't created by the D&D team, though (like, at all? Unless you count having D&D races and some D&D gods created 40+ years ago as WotC contributing to the creation). And the Magic settings were created by the Magic team, not the D&D team (who merely converted them). It doesn't mean that the Magic settings are cheapened as CS, but it does indeed mean that it's not new worldbuilding being made.
I give you Ravenloft, but it's very little new content compared to the lifespan of 5e. All of this kinda confirms Wooly's hypothesis, tbh, until WotC starts putting out worldbuilding that is actually new.
Then Gyor said that Strixhaven is also new and developed by both D&D and MtG teams, and that there are supposedly more settings coming, and I replied that my impression was wrong in the light of the new information.
So... yeah? |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 14 Jun 2021 04:07:00 |
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Mimir
Acolyte
USA
4 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2021 : 13:58:24
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quote:
Originally posted by keftiu
Worth noting for the contrast is Eberron, which stuck to a largely-unmodified port over of the previous core lore of the setting, with expanding into new lore saved for DM's Guild products made by the setting's creator (and thus /technically/ not being WotC official).
I'd intended to comment on this as well. Having lurked with the best of them for quite some time, specifically on the "Ask Ed" threads, I'm more than passingly familiar with the various ways a question can be answered with "NDA", which is a sharp contrast to the situation with Eberron. Keith maintains a fantastic blog/Q&A and it seems that all he need do is preface everything with "This is how it goes down at my table". I'll grant you that most people refer to anything he says as "Kanon", but it seems to work as there's still WotC Official Eberron content. Makes me wonder why FR still labors under the aegis of the dreaded NDA and if it's something that will eventually fall off.
Personally, I'd rather FR move to something approximating this scenario, wherein WotC can trot out whatever they like, but I can still have answers to minutiae like "Why did Hilather change his name to 'Halaster'?" or "Who was the Sorceress in Grey?" without having to see my three least favorite letters. |
"Wisdom comes from experience. Experience is often a result of a lack of wisdom" - Terry Pratchett |
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Eldacar
Senior Scribe
438 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2021 : 15:15:58
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quote:
Originally posted by keftiu
tl;dr Paizo is outpacing WotC on setting material by an exponential amount.
5E adventures do include gazetteers, such as Descent into Avernus (Baldur's Gate), Candlekeep Mysteries (Candlekeep), and Storm King's Thunder (more or less the entire North). But, again: I think WotC is pursuing a fundamentally different path to the TSR and 2000s era. Part of that is the reduced focus on setting sourcebooks and increased focus on adventures that favour active deployment/use of the 5E system.
WotC did take a cue on making the "adventure path approach" a primary release feature for 5E; beyond the Cormyr/Shadowdale/Anauroch books most adventure output in the late 3.5e days was, to my recollection, from Dungeon rather than WotC (and Paizo started in 2002 to take over Dungeon/Dragon magazine when WotC first divested them). So with 5E there is a clear shift there. But what WotC didn't do (and hence my point about differences and an evolved approach) is accompany that with a glut of setting material.
What's also interesting to me, as an addendum, is that the online data a brief search turns up implies PF1 is still more popular than PF2 among fans of Paizo, and both are behind anything WotC-released. Which suggests that for all the "setting worldbuilding" and words that Paizo is consistently publishing, it has not translated into significant gains for them. |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2021 : 15:55:11
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quote:
Originally posted by keftiu
Irennan, does all the new content in the newest Ravenloft book not count as worldbuilding to you? There’s a ton of new or radically-altered Domains in there.
The below is a qoute from Jaappleton, someone who has contacts from among the designers at WotC.
"I’ll state this.
This is an informed opinion.
The new Lineage system from Tasha’s was well in the works for a long time before some fans asked for separation between race and ability scores.
And things along that line are continuing to be worked on.
The changes to Drow, Orcs, etc? Those are being revealed because the content to go along with them, the whole package.... whether a setting, an adventure book, etc.... those changes are revealed because the full product is nearing completion and they’re ready to announce that product.
So when they went on a hiring spree and increase book production.... it’s also to address the changes some have been asking for.
When people scream at the design team they aren’t doing enough to address issue ______, they’ve been working on solutions for awhile now.
But the product as a whole to release alongside those changes isn’t quite ready yet. So the design team can’t tell back, “No, we ARE addressing those changes, we just can’t say what it is yet!”" |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2021 : 18:47:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Eldacar
What's also interesting to me, as an addendum, is that the online data a brief search turns up implies PF1 is still more popular than PF2 among fans of Paizo, and both are behind anything WotC-released. Which suggests that for all the "setting worldbuilding" and words that Paizo is consistently publishing, it has not translated into significant gains for them.
Of course they're behind WotC. Aside from a period during the 4E era, Paizo has always been behind WotC.
And it's not about whether or not world-building is working for Paizo -- it obviously is, since they're continuing to do it. WotC -- and TSR before them -- have always been the top dogs of the RPG industry, because D&D is the most well-known of all RPGs. For a long time, D&D was the RPG industry, and for a lot of people, D&D and RPGs are synonymous. Many newcomers don't even know there are other tabletop RPGs -- I didn't know, myself, until I saw them advertised in Dragon, lo these many moons ago when it was still in print. I'd been interested in D&D for years at that point and owned several D&D products, though I'd not yet rolled a single D20 yet.
When a company defines a particular industry, it doesn't matter if they're offering the better product or not -- they're going to stay on top because of name recognition.
There's a reason so much 5E material refers to it as the "World's oldest role-playing game" -- they're making sure that everyone knows D&D has been around for a long time, because hey, if it's the oldest, it must be the best, right?
You have to look at more than sales figures. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2021 : 18:50:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Gyor
quote:
Originally posted by keftiu
Irennan, does all the new content in the newest Ravenloft book not count as worldbuilding to you? There’s a ton of new or radically-altered Domains in there.
The below is a qoute from Jaappleton, someone who has contacts from among the designers at WotC.
"I’ll state this.
This is an informed opinion.
The new Lineage system from Tasha’s was well in the works for a long time before some fans asked for separation between race and ability scores.
And things along that line are continuing to be worked on.
The changes to Drow, Orcs, etc? Those are being revealed because the content to go along with them, the whole package.... whether a setting, an adventure book, etc.... those changes are revealed because the full product is nearing completion and they’re ready to announce that product.
So when they went on a hiring spree and increase book production.... it’s also to address the changes some have been asking for.
When people scream at the design team they aren’t doing enough to address issue ______, they’ve been working on solutions for awhile now.
But the product as a whole to release alongside those changes isn’t quite ready yet. So the design team can’t tell back, “No, we ARE addressing those changes, we just can’t say what it is yet!”"
Still doesn't mean they intend to do anything different with the Realms.
And some of their past "solutions" have been worse than the problems they claimed to be addressing. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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keftiu
Senior Scribe
656 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2021 : 21:39:30
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https://twitter.com/winningerr/status/1404492196397522955?s=21
Two classic settings in development for 2022 and are in “formats you’ve never seen before.”
Also, two entirely new, non-MtG settings, as well as a return to a setting already visited by 5e.
Speculate away. |
4e fangirl. Here to queer up the Realms. |
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Baltas
Senior Scribe
Poland
955 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2021 : 22:55:13
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| Makes me wonder one of the settings is Dragonlance. On one hand, there was the conflict with Tracy Hickman and Margaret Weis, with them even suing WotC. On the other hand, the case was resolved/dismissed by Tracy Hickman and Margaret Weis themselves, and Tracy semed posittive about all of this. As well as the info given by Gyor,about WotC projects being made for a long time, it does seem the new Dragonlance novels, were to accompany other Dragonlance products. |
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keftiu
Senior Scribe
656 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2021 : 23:03:45
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| Reposting my blind guesses: two classics are Dark Sun and Spelljammer (both have been teased across 5e’s lifespan), the two new ones are a Critical Role continent for campaign 3 and something with a non-traditional/diverse inspiration, and the revisit is… in my wildest dreams, an Alamber Sea book for the Realms :p |
4e fangirl. Here to queer up the Realms. |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2021 : 23:11:17
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quote:
Originally posted by keftiu
https://twitter.com/winningerr/status/1404492196397522955?s=21
Two classic settings in development for 2022 and are in “formats you’ve never seen before.”
Also, two entirely new, non-MtG settings, as well as a return to a setting already visited by 5e.
Speculate away.
Okay so I was wrong about James Wyatt's book, that basically confirms its VGTM type book with a focus on Dragons.
BUT, 2 Classic Setting and a revisit to one of the ones done also functional confirms an FR Campaign Setting book as the rest are much newer and none have gotten the complaints that the SCAG got.
I just can't see another Ravnica or Theros book so soon when another MtG visit to those planes are at least 3 or 4 years away, Ravenloft just got a book, Exandia isn't in its 3rd season yet and won't want to spoil it yet.
That leaves Eberron and FR and Eberron is allot newer and by and large pleased Eberron fans, which you can't say about the SCAG by and large as it focused on too small a region, and was a mechanical disaster,although I did like the first person writing in parts, wish more of the lore sections were written in first person travel guide style.
So yeah when the Gods shut a window they open a door.
Also the new format sounds interesting. Alot of people starting wondering about PDFs, but its been pointed out new format suggests a new structure aka a new format for the books, not new media. The FR book could get this new format treatment.
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keftiu
Senior Scribe
656 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2021 : 23:14:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Gyor
quote:
Originally posted by keftiu
Irennan, does all the new content in the newest Ravenloft book not count as worldbuilding to you? There’s a ton of new or radically-altered Domains in there.
The below is a qoute from Jaappleton, someone who has contacts from among the designers at WotC.
"I’ll state this.
This is an informed opinion.
The new Lineage system from Tasha’s was well in the works for a long time before some fans asked for separation between race and ability scores.
And things along that line are continuing to be worked on.
The changes to Drow, Orcs, etc? Those are being revealed because the content to go along with them, the whole package.... whether a setting, an adventure book, etc.... those changes are revealed because the full product is nearing completion and they’re ready to announce that product.
So when they went on a hiring spree and increase book production.... it’s also to address the changes some have been asking for.
When people scream at the design team they aren’t doing enough to address issue ______, they’ve been working on solutions for awhile now.
But the product as a whole to release alongside those changes isn’t quite ready yet. So the design team can’t tell back, “No, we ARE addressing those changes, we just can’t say what it is yet!”"
Could I get a link to the source on this? |
4e fangirl. Here to queer up the Realms. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2021 : 00:03:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Gyor
BUT, 2 Classic Setting and a revisit to one of the ones done also functional confirms an FR Campaign Setting book as the rest are much newer and none have gotten the complaints that the SCAG got.
Nope, it does not confirm that at all. It says "as well as a return to a setting we've already covered." That doesn't say it's a campaign setting -- it's just another product for a setting that's already been covered. Since the setting in question is "already covered" then it is most likely just additional material. Maybe a closer look at an area, or -- more likely -- something that expands on character options for a particular setting. Like a book that retcons drow and makes them better options for PCs, for example.
If it's not FR drow (one of their favorite cash cows and a well they can't stop going back to) then it's going to be either something for Eberron or Ravenloft, I'm thinking.
I'm still kinda surprised we've not see anything for Greyhawk, yet. Greyhawk was the flagship setting for a long time, and its fanbase is perhaps even more fanatical than we are. Plus, a lot of D&D players revere Gygax, and Greyhawk was his baby, so that's even more reason to cover it. And Greyhawk's lore wasn't as developed as the lore for the Realms, so it'd be an easier one for them to revisit without concern over prior lore. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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HighOne
Learned Scribe
214 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2021 : 00:11:33
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quote:
Originally posted by keftiu
https://twitter.com/winningerr/status/1404492196397522955?s=21
Two classic settings in development for 2022 and are in “formats you’ve never seen before.”
Interesting. "Never seen before" could mean anything from "the same format as the other setting books, but with a fold-out map" to "alien technology never seen on this planet before."
Among the more interesting, but still plausible, possibilities, I'd guess either:
(a) A box set, a la the Starter Set or Essentials Kit, with setting-flavored dice and a DM screen. (I expect this would be a big hit, and I'm surprised they haven't done it already.)
or
(b) Something digital, because that would be bold and innovative (for Wizards, at least), but Wizards's reluctance to do anything digital-related so far with 5E makes this unlikely. |
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keftiu
Senior Scribe
656 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2021 : 00:15:27
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quote:
Originally posted by HighOne
quote:
Originally posted by keftiu
https://twitter.com/winningerr/status/1404492196397522955?s=21
Two classic settings in development for 2022 and are in “formats you’ve never seen before.”
Interesting. "Never seen before" could mean anything from "the same format as the other setting books, but with a fold-out map" to "alien technology never seen on this planet before."
Among the more interesting, but still plausible, possibilities, I'd guess either:
(a) A box set, a la the Starter Set or Essentials Kit, with setting-flavored dice and a DM screen. (I expect this would be a big hit, and I'm surprised they haven't done it already.)
or
(b) Something digital, because that would be bold and innovative (for Wizards, at least), but Wizards's reluctance to do anything digital-related so far with 5E makes this unlikely.
Given that they had a new customer survey go up today asking how people would feel about more digital tools… |
4e fangirl. Here to queer up the Realms. |
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deserk
Learned Scribe
Norway
237 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2021 : 00:19:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Gyor
BUT, 2 Classic Setting and a revisit to one of the ones done also functional confirms an FR Campaign Setting book as the rest are much newer and none have gotten the complaints that the SCAG got.
Nope, it does not confirm that at all. It says "as well as a return to a setting we've already covered." That doesn't say it's a campaign setting -- it's just another product for a setting that's already been covered. Since the setting in question is "already covered" then it is most likely just additional material. Maybe a closer look at an area, or -- more likely -- something that expands on character options for a particular setting. Like a book that retcons drow and makes them better options for PCs, for example.
Yeah, I agree. It will likely not be an FR campaign setting book, but an adventure book for FR. Since Faerun is too big for them to make a book out of, since apparently despite their successes they don't have the capacity to make a book like the 3E Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting book (which is personally my Bible when it comes to the Realms).
I just really hope whatever it turns out to be, that it isn't another adventure book in the Western Heartlands, the North (and that includes Icewind Dale) nor the Sword Coast.
I do find it a bit peculiar that whenever WotC makes a book in FR, they keep picking arguably the most "white-est" areas of Faerun (especially peculiar for a company that really likes to broadcast how socially aware they are). Faerun is a fairly vast continent, and it is filled with a broad and diverse array of people, as places like Calimshan, Lake of Steam, Old Empires, Unapproachable East, Vilhon Reach, Chultan Peninsula and the Shining South make clear. And yeah it would be nice to visit these places we haven't seen at all since 3E or 2E. And for WotC to actually do something fresh, rather than the same old contrived and predictable adventure in Baldur's Gate or Waterdeep. |
Edited by - deserk on 15 Jun 2021 00:24:46 |
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keftiu
Senior Scribe
656 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2021 : 00:29:20
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quote:
Originally posted by deserk
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Gyor
BUT, 2 Classic Setting and a revisit to one of the ones done also functional confirms an FR Campaign Setting book as the rest are much newer and none have gotten the complaints that the SCAG got.
Nope, it does not confirm that at all. It says "as well as a return to a setting we've already covered." That doesn't say it's a campaign setting -- it's just another product for a setting that's already been covered. Since the setting in question is "already covered" then it is most likely just additional material. Maybe a closer look at an area, or -- more likely -- something that expands on character options for a particular setting. Like a book that retcons drow and makes them better options for PCs, for example.
Yeah, I agree. It will likely not be an FR campaign setting book, but an adventure book for FR. Since Faerun is too big for them to make a book out of, since apparently despite their successes they don't have the capacity to make a book like the 3E Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting book (which is personally my Bible when it comes to the Realms).
I just really hope whatever it turns out to be, that it isn't another adventure book in the Western Heartlands, the North (and that includes Icewind Dale) nor the Sword Coast.
I do find it a bit peculiar that whenever WotC makes a book in FR, they keep picking arguably the most "white-est" areas of Faerun (especially peculiar for a company that really likes to broadcast how socially aware they are). Faerun is a fairly vast continent, and it is filled with a broad and diverse array of people, as places like Calimshan, Lake of Steam, Old Empires, Unapproachable East, Vilhon Reach, Chultan Peninsula and the Shining South make clear. And yeah it would be nice to visit these places we haven't seen at all since 3E or 2E. And for WotC to actually do something fresh, rather than the same old contrived and predictable adventure in Baldur's Gate or Waterdeep.
Every region you name had cool stuff going on in it during 4e :)
I think they’re reluctant to cover those regions because they’re reluctant to hire people to do them “correctly” and gamble on new writing talent for something as big as a full book - we’ve seen how a lot of their recent hires have been pretty mistreated. |
4e fangirl. Here to queer up the Realms. |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2021 : 01:15:10
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quote:
Originally posted by deserk
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Gyor
BUT, 2 Classic Setting and a revisit to one of the ones done also functional confirms an FR Campaign Setting book as the rest are much newer and none have gotten the complaints that the SCAG got.
Nope, it does not confirm that at all. It says "as well as a return to a setting we've already covered." That doesn't say it's a campaign setting -- it's just another product for a setting that's already been covered. Since the setting in question is "already covered" then it is most likely just additional material. Maybe a closer look at an area, or -- more likely -- something that expands on character options for a particular setting. Like a book that retcons drow and makes them better options for PCs, for example.
Yeah, I agree. It will likely not be an FR campaign setting book, but an adventure book for FR. Since Faerun is too big for them to make a book out of, since apparently despite their successes they don't have the capacity to make a book like the 3E Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting book (which is personally my Bible when it comes to the Realms).
I just really hope whatever it turns out to be, that it isn't another adventure book in the Western Heartlands, the North (and that includes Icewind Dale) nor the Sword Coast.
I do find it a bit peculiar that whenever WotC makes a book in FR, they keep picking arguably the most "white-est" areas of Faerun (especially peculiar for a company that really likes to broadcast how socially aware they are). Faerun is a fairly vast continent, and it is filled with a broad and diverse array of people, as places like Calimshan, Lake of Steam, Old Empires, Unapproachable East, Vilhon Reach, Chultan Peninsula and the Shining South make clear. And yeah it would be nice to visit these places we haven't seen at all since 3E or 2E. And for WotC to actually do something fresh, rather than the same old contrived and predictable adventure in Baldur's Gate or Waterdeep.
They do an adventure book for FR every year almost. He was specifically talking about campaign Setting Books, answering concerns about expected setting books and expanding upon their up coming setting book plans.
One is a revisited setting, deductive reasoning tells us what setting that is.
Strixhaven, Theros, and Ravnica will not receive a return visit MtG side so no reason to do another book there until they do.
Ravenloft just got a book this year and even Eberron is not that old, and neither Ravenloft nor Eberron have advancing story lines, so fans of those settings have ever, they are static (at least 5e Ravenloft appears so).
That leaves FR, I don't consider the SCAG a campaign setting book, but it appears WotC does. The was Extremely flawed, the oldest setting book, too small and undetailed and now largely out of date, broken mechanics. There have been signs for awhile that WotC wants a redo. |
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Mimir
Acolyte
USA
4 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2021 : 01:20:35
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quote:
Originally posted by HighOne
quote:
Originally posted by keftiu
https://twitter.com/winningerr/status/1404492196397522955?s=21
Two classic settings in development for 2022 and are in “formats you’ve never seen before.”
Interesting. "Never seen before" could mean anything from "the same format as the other setting books, but with a fold-out map" to "alien technology never seen on this planet before."
It probably says something that my first thought was "you mean like back in '96 when they released Dragonlance 5th Age set and it was a diceless narrative card game?".  |
"Wisdom comes from experience. Experience is often a result of a lack of wisdom" - Terry Pratchett |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2021 : 01:30:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Gyor
They do an adventure book for FR every year almost. He was specifically talking about campaign Setting Books, answering concerns about expected setting books and expanding upon their up coming setting book plans.
Again, he says it's a return to a setting already covered. Already covered means it doesn't need to be covered again -- it is therefore some sort of expansion.
quote:
Originally posted by Gyor
One is a revisited setting, deductive reasoning tells us what setting that is.
You call it deductive reasoning. I call it wishful thinking. There is absolutely nothing that indicates they're suddenly changing what they've been doing and planning on giving us a campaign book.
quote:
Originally posted by Gyor
Strixhaven, Theros, and Ravnica will not receive a return visit MtG side so no reason to do another book there until they do.
All I know of Ravnica was from that book -- and that book was only focused on a very small area. I've gone out of my way to avoid Magic -- and yet it was very clear to me that there is plenty there to revisit. Especially since they're really pushing the whole Magic/D&D crossover thing.
quote:
Originally posted by Gyor
Ravenloft just got a book this year and even Eberron is not that old, and neither Ravenloft nor Eberron have advancing story lines, so fans of those settings have ever, they are static (at least 5e Ravenloft appears so).
Several of the domains covered in the Ravenloft book were covered in the span of 5 pages -- that's plenty to expand on, right there. And there are previously covered areas of Eberron that have not been touched since 3E.
Also, none of the settings have advancing story lines, any more, since we're not getting novels and even the FR adventures are isolated from each other.
quote:
Originally posted by Gyor
That leaves FR, I don't consider the SCAG a campaign setting book, but it appears WotC does. The was Extremely flawed, the oldest setting book, too small and undetailed and now largely out of date, broken mechanics. There have been signs for awhile that WotC wants a redo.
What signs?
Again, I want a new FR campaign book as badly as you do -- but you've yet to offer anything definitive that indicates anyone at WotC has even considered such, much less that they're actively working on it.
I'm not trying to be difficult or negative -- I'm just not seeing anything here that even hints at what you're saying is definite. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 15 Jun 2021 01:32:17 |
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keftiu
Senior Scribe
656 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2021 : 01:45:18
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| Worth noting that 5e Eberron only really showed us one city on one continent. A pulp adventure-y Xen’drik book, an intrigue campaign in Thaliost or Thronehold, maybe even a psionic revolutionaries story in Sarlona… there’s plenty more meat on those bones. |
4e fangirl. Here to queer up the Realms. |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2021 : 01:57:28
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quote:
Originally posted by keftiu
Worth noting that 5e Eberron only really showed us one city on one continent. A pulp adventure-y Xen’drik book, an intrigue campaign in Thaliost or Thronehold, maybe even a psionic revolutionaries story in Sarlona… there’s plenty more meat on those bones.
E: RftLW went over all the major regions of Khovoire, and more importantly all the major races and artificers are in the book along with other mechanics. WotC is not getting complaints about that setting book with demands for a new one from Eberron fans, FR on the other hand had a disaster of setting book, it's timeline advances unlike Eberrons, and it's fans are the ones complaining. Plus it's the most profitable setting. It's 100% FR, no doubt in my mind. |
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keftiu
Senior Scribe
656 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2021 : 02:04:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Gyor
quote:
Originally posted by keftiu
Worth noting that 5e Eberron only really showed us one city on one continent. A pulp adventure-y Xen’drik book, an intrigue campaign in Thaliost or Thronehold, maybe even a psionic revolutionaries story in Sarlona… there’s plenty more meat on those bones.
E: RftLW went over all the major regions of Khovoire, and more importantly all the major races and artificers are in the book along with other mechanics. WotC is not getting complaints about that setting book with demands for a new one from Eberron fans, FR on the other hand had a disaster of setting book, it's timeline advances unlike Eberrons, and it's fans are the ones complaining. Plus it's the most profitable setting. It's 100% FR, no doubt in my mind.
As you have said, many times.
I don’t know that anyone in this community /wants/ to see what the current team has done to the rest of Faerun. As a 4e gal, they threw out most of what I liked, and I don’t expect them to revisit any of what little survived any time soon. |
4e fangirl. Here to queer up the Realms. |
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Mimir
Acolyte
USA
4 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2021 : 12:44:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Gyor
quote:
Originally posted by keftiu
Worth noting that 5e Eberron only really showed us one city on one continent. A pulp adventure-y Xen’drik book, an intrigue campaign in Thaliost or Thronehold, maybe even a psionic revolutionaries story in Sarlona… there’s plenty more meat on those bones.
E: RftLW went over all the major regions of Khovoire, and more importantly all the major races and artificers are in the book along with other mechanics. WotC is not getting complaints about that setting book with demands for a new one from Eberron fans, FR on the other hand had a disaster of setting book, it's timeline advances unlike Eberrons, and it's fans are the ones complaining. Plus it's the most profitable setting. It's 100% FR, no doubt in my mind.
Some competing ideas there but, at the end of the day, if you've somehow managed to find and grasp 100% certitude in the spaces between them, despite my random comments, I'm not here to try and knock that out of your hands. Time will tell and I hope, whenever the penny drops, you're happy with the outcome.
All that having been said, if you haven't done so already, The Mages and Sages podcasts are worth a listen for a multitude of reasons for any FR fan but, material to this discussion, they often include some valuable insights into the business decision points/metrics that drove production of FR expansions and sourcebooks in past editions. I'll grant you that most of what's talked about is specific to the good ol days at TSR, but it's nevertheless a peek behind the curtain and the general concepts could be applied, by extension and extrapolation, to what might be going on at WotC/Hasbro (albeit on a much larger scale and under a vastly different set of circumstances) and the intersection of sales figures, complaints in the Twitterverse, and otherwise happy (and/or "silent") customers. |
"Wisdom comes from experience. Experience is often a result of a lack of wisdom" - Terry Pratchett |
Edited by - Mimir on 15 Jun 2021 13:53:10 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11695 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2021 : 16:09:43
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| just curious on the idea of the various magic settings, are the majority of them "enclosed environments".... basically, I know the Egyptian one was like a giant city with wastes on the outskirts... I know one of them was about another city of inventors..... for instance, is the "story" behind Strixhaven that its some extradimensional school for magic OR is it supposed to be just a magic school in an undisclosed world? Might many of the magic settings actually be in the same "plane" or even the same "world"? |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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keftiu
Senior Scribe
656 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2021 : 20:08:06
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
just curious on the idea of the various magic settings, are the majority of them "enclosed environments".... basically, I know the Egyptian one was like a giant city with wastes on the outskirts... I know one of them was about another city of inventors..... for instance, is the "story" behind Strixhaven that its some extradimensional school for magic OR is it supposed to be just a magic school in an undisclosed world? Might many of the magic settings actually be in the same "plane" or even the same "world"?
Magic settings vary wildly in scale; Amonkhet was set on what is supposedly the only city on a desert world, while Ravnica is a world entirely covered in city, and Theros is a whole world covered in cities + the heavens and underworld. Strixhaven is merely a famous school on the world of Arcavios, while Kaladesh only showed us one city of many on a whole world with an Indian “aetherpunk” theme. Ixalan has multiple continents, as does Dominaria and Zendikar, while all of Tarkir that we’ve seen has been on one (very large) continent.
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4e fangirl. Here to queer up the Realms. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11695 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2021 : 23:29:42
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quote:
Originally posted by keftiu
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
just curious on the idea of the various magic settings, are the majority of them "enclosed environments".... basically, I know the Egyptian one was like a giant city with wastes on the outskirts... I know one of them was about another city of inventors..... for instance, is the "story" behind Strixhaven that its some extradimensional school for magic OR is it supposed to be just a magic school in an undisclosed world? Might many of the magic settings actually be in the same "plane" or even the same "world"?
Magic settings vary wildly in scale; Amonkhet was set on what is supposedly the only city on a desert world, while Ravnica is a world entirely covered in city, and Theros is a whole world covered in cities + the heavens and underworld. Strixhaven is merely a famous school on the world of Arcavios, while Kaladesh only showed us one city of many on a whole world with an Indian “aetherpunk” theme. Ixalan has multiple continents, as does Dominaria and Zendikar, while all of Tarkir that we’ve seen has been on one (very large) continent.
On the Theros one, in reading the D&D product, I noted that it had some vagueness written into it about the islands off the coast and it was like the surrounding territories might change. Was this just the D&D people leaving it open for possible later or homebrew development or was this some vagueness mentioned in the MTG side? I noted that they were this way with the actual history as well (as in the history of the world might rewrite itself based on belief). When I read it, my first thoughts were that this was a place that's KIND of like Ravenloft, but without the whole horror focus.... that's why I'm asking. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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keftiu
Senior Scribe
656 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2021 : 00:18:27
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by keftiu
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
just curious on the idea of the various magic settings, are the majority of them "enclosed environments".... basically, I know the Egyptian one was like a giant city with wastes on the outskirts... I know one of them was about another city of inventors..... for instance, is the "story" behind Strixhaven that its some extradimensional school for magic OR is it supposed to be just a magic school in an undisclosed world? Might many of the magic settings actually be in the same "plane" or even the same "world"?
Magic settings vary wildly in scale; Amonkhet was set on what is supposedly the only city on a desert world, while Ravnica is a world entirely covered in city, and Theros is a whole world covered in cities + the heavens and underworld. Strixhaven is merely a famous school on the world of Arcavios, while Kaladesh only showed us one city of many on a whole world with an Indian “aetherpunk” theme. Ixalan has multiple continents, as does Dominaria and Zendikar, while all of Tarkir that we’ve seen has been on one (very large) continent.
On the Theros one, in reading the D&D product, I noted that it had some vagueness written into it about the islands off the coast and it was like the surrounding territories might change. Was this just the D&D people leaving it open for possible later or homebrew development or was this some vagueness mentioned in the MTG side? I noted that they were this way with the actual history as well (as in the history of the world might rewrite itself based on belief). When I read it, my first thoughts were that this was a place that's KIND of like Ravenloft, but without the whole horror focus.... that's why I'm asking.
Theros is, if I remember right, a flat plane of ocean with the waters running off the edges, where civilization consists of city-states on islands in that ocean. There’s some degree of history - ancient kings and wars, the rise and fall of certain gods - but it doesn’t have a firm timeline or well-defined map. Most MtG stuff doesn’t need that detail; we’ve been to Zendikar close to ten times in the card game and still don’t have a map, if memory serves. |
4e fangirl. Here to queer up the Realms. |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2021 : 00:46:22
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quote:
Originally posted by keftiu
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by keftiu
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
just curious on the idea of the various magic settings, are the majority of them "enclosed environments".... basically, I know the Egyptian one was like a giant city with wastes on the outskirts... I know one of them was about another city of inventors..... for instance, is the "story" behind Strixhaven that its some extradimensional school for magic OR is it supposed to be just a magic school in an undisclosed world? Might many of the magic settings actually be in the same "plane" or even the same "world"?
Magic settings vary wildly in scale; Amonkhet was set on what is supposedly the only city on a desert world, while Ravnica is a world entirely covered in city, and Theros is a whole world covered in cities + the heavens and underworld. Strixhaven is merely a famous school on the world of Arcavios, while Kaladesh only showed us one city of many on a whole world with an Indian “aetherpunk” theme. Ixalan has multiple continents, as does Dominaria and Zendikar, while all of Tarkir that we’ve seen has been on one (very large) continent.
On the Theros one, in reading the D&D product, I noted that it had some vagueness written into it about the islands off the coast and it was like the surrounding territories might change. Was this just the D&D people leaving it open for possible later or homebrew development or was this some vagueness mentioned in the MTG side? I noted that they were this way with the actual history as well (as in the history of the world might rewrite itself based on belief). When I read it, my first thoughts were that this was a place that's KIND of like Ravenloft, but without the whole horror focus.... that's why I'm asking.
Theros is, if I remember right, a flat plane of ocean with the waters running off the edges, where civilization consists of city-states on islands in that ocean. There’s some degree of history - ancient kings and wars, the rise and fall of certain gods - but it doesn’t have a firm timeline or well-defined map. Most MtG stuff doesn’t need that detail; we’ve been to Zendikar close to ten times in the card game and still don’t have a map, if memory serves.
In Mythic Odysseses of Theros, Theros does have a map (although Nyx and the Underworld don't.
The mainland of Theros has a set of mountains to the north and another set to the East. There are unexplored lands beyond the Mountains. To the West are the Islands and Ocean. They really only show us the part of Theros that we see in the card sets and novel. |
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore
1621 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jun 2021 : 00:49:15
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quote:
Originally posted by keftiu
Worth noting that 5e Eberron only really showed us one city on one continent. A pulp adventure-y Xen’drik book, an intrigue campaign in Thaliost or Thronehold, maybe even a psionic revolutionaries story in Sarlona… there’s plenty more meat on those bones.
Eberron's timeline doesn't advance, unlike FRs, so you can use the 3.5e books, along with E: RftLW's mechanics. That isn't an choice for FR.
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Hint that Faerun Campaign Book is by MtG team
