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Gyor
Master of Realmslore

1526 Posts

Posted - 20 Mar 2021 :  13:00:28  Show Profile Send Gyor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Where is it stated they're increasing their release rate?

Also, even if the release rate has been increased, that doesn't mean they're going to break their current pattern of cherry-picking stuff to roughly shove into the Realms, making it an adventure, and adding just a little bit less (possibly mangled) lore than you really need to do anything with it.



I understand the cynicism, but that was the pattern for the D&D Next era, we have had a minir edition change late last year, Tasha's D&D 5e, so things are changing.
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
10260 Posts

Posted - 20 Mar 2021 :  14:21:18  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gyor

quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

quote:
Originally posted by Gyor

quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

quote:
Originally posted by keftiu

I have to ask; who is the audience for a new 5e FRCS? The type of fans this place mainly represents haven’t liked almost anything they’ve done with the setting in 13 years, the 4e faithful like me and Zeromaru resent the Second Sundering, and the new fans gathered in 5e are content enough with the current status quo to carry 5e to the highest sales numbers D&D has ever seen.

Why rock the boat, y’know? There’s very little benefit and plenty of risk to doing something big with the Realms, if you think like the mercenary folks who run the show.



Just out of curiosity, because I hear it quoted often... what's the basis for "highest sales"? Not to knock the statement, I'm just wondering about what its based on? Is it based on money or numbers sold? The two may have very drastic differences on how things are measured. For instance, candlekeep mysteries is priced at $50, which initially I'm seeing it being sold to me at $30 as I look at amazon. A somewhat similar product for roughly the same length in the 3e era would be city of the spider queen which was marked at $30 and I probably would have gotten it for $20 back then (I have to guess since that was about 15 years or so back, so I don't have records, but I know Amazon was always lowering the prices then too). A similar product in the 2e era would probably have cost less but been shorter and only been one adventure or a collection of REALLY short adventures, OR if of equal length would have been boxed with maps or additional adds.... so offhand I find it harder to compare.

But in the end, it seems like there's a 50% increase in price. Now, I understand that "that's going to happen as time occurs". But if monetary income is the measuring stick, its not necessarily a good one. That also being said, 2e was horrible for releasing WAAYY too many products so that NOONE could buy them all. 3e got better, but it was still too much, so that even the hardcore were only buying half the stuff (and I was getting both dragon and dungeon magazines, and while I read every dragon, I still have a most of my dungeon magazines in the wrapper from near the end of 3e). Now its a trickle, so a large number of those that are buying buy everything out of brand loyalty and simple curiosity.

Please understand, I'm not trying to push any edition war here. I'm just always skeptical about these claims that X is the most popular. That being said, I will say over the past 5 years, I have gamed with more younger players than ever before (with many of them being kids introduced to the game by watching their parent read OR people in IT getting in by making friendships with older people in IT).

In fact.... side question... Keftiu and Zero... I'm truly curious, what would you say brought you guys to the game? For myself, I can literally trace my interest in D&D to going to a garage sale of all things when I was about 9 or so and someone was selling the original D&D boxed set for like a quarter.... and mixing that with reading Tolkien and other newer fantasy novels that were seeing a rise at the time.



WotC has been releasing their sales and growth figures for D&D and MtG and the growth has been massive, even before the Pandemic, but it grew even faster during the pandemic, which is why they are planning on incressung their release rate for both.



That just tells me "the numbers are going up". It doesn't tell me what the numbers are based on. For instance, you can't directly compare money now to money ten or 15 years ago, because costs have gone up. I was basically wondering are they talking numbers of products sold of a given product, products sold per month, or just simply monetary increase. I'm not wanting an answer to be either way, I'm just curious about what the people who fund the industry are actually doing (i.e. are there less people buying but they're specifically buying anything released and the price has increased, or is it actually more people). I wonder things like this, because some young people I played with were just photocopying things like race and class info for their character (just their specific race and class) and then sharing a PHB. Granted, they were first time players and didn't know if they were going to continue gaming, so I kind of get it. It just felt like they were interested in gaming, but not buying product.



Its enough money being made that they are hiring more people and investing in D&D.



Still doesn't tell us much. If they'd cut down to a skeleton crew and are regrowing it. Again, not pushing for one way or another, its just I hear things like "the game is more popular than ever" and I truly wonder if there's more people playing than there were in say the 90's and 2000's. That's how I judge popularity. Not monetary income.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
34915 Posts

Posted - 20 Mar 2021 :  16:08:41  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gyor

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Where is it stated they're increasing their release rate?

Also, even if the release rate has been increased, that doesn't mean they're going to break their current pattern of cherry-picking stuff to roughly shove into the Realms, making it an adventure, and adding just a little bit less (possibly mangled) lore than you really need to do anything with it.



I understand the cynicism, but that was the pattern for the D&D Next era, we have had a minir edition change late last year, Tasha's D&D 5e, so things are changing.



I've seen no evidence that things are changing -- and certainly not in the direction of actually supporting a setting. They've actively avoided setting support, because that requires them to nail things down and they don't want to do anything that puts any kind of limitation on the designers.

It's not cynicism to look at a well-established pattern and, absent any indications of change, expect it to continue.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Editor and scribe for The Candlekeep Compendium

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
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Diffan
Great Reader

USA
4143 Posts

Posted - 20 Mar 2021 :  20:36:31  Show Profile Send Diffan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by keftiu

the 4e faithful like me and Zeromaru resent the Second Sundering



.....ahem...

4E Realms = Great Taste, Less Filling.

"If WotC were to put out a box of free money, people would still complain how it was folded."
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keftiu
Senior Scribe

600 Posts

Posted - 20 Mar 2021 :  21:16:38  Show Profile Send keftiu a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Diffan

quote:
Originally posted by keftiu

the 4e faithful like me and Zeromaru resent the Second Sundering



.....ahem...



There are dozens of us!

4e fangirl. Here to queer up the Realms.
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader

USA
3563 Posts

Posted - 21 Mar 2021 :  02:52:01  Show Profile Send Lord Karsus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

Still doesn't tell us much. If they'd cut down to a skeleton crew and are regrowing it. Again, not pushing for one way or another, its just I hear things like "the game is more popular than ever" and I truly wonder if there's more people playing than there were in say the 90's and 2000's. That's how I judge popularity. Not monetary income.


-Agreed. I don't honestly believe that D&D (or tabletop role-playing games in general) is more popular now than it was in the 70s/80s/90s heyday, but I think that the perception of it (along with other nerdy things, like comic books especially) has radically changed since then and it's okay to admit that you play. Even as recent as like in the early 2000s, in my experience, saying you played D&D would get side-eye, not so much maybe something negative as much as something weird and extremely geeky. Now, apparently, not so much.

(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)

Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium

Edited by - Lord Karsus on 21 Mar 2021 02:52:32
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Diffan
Great Reader

USA
4143 Posts

Posted - 21 Mar 2021 :  05:14:38  Show Profile Send Diffan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by keftiu

quote:
Originally posted by Diffan

quote:
Originally posted by keftiu

the 4e faithful like me and Zeromaru resent the Second Sundering



.....ahem...



There are dozens of us!



Honestly, I'm not sure lol

4E Realms = Great Taste, Less Filling.

"If WotC were to put out a box of free money, people would still complain how it was folded."
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
34915 Posts

Posted - 21 Mar 2021 :  14:53:12  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus

quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

Still doesn't tell us much. If they'd cut down to a skeleton crew and are regrowing it. Again, not pushing for one way or another, its just I hear things like "the game is more popular than ever" and I truly wonder if there's more people playing than there were in say the 90's and 2000's. That's how I judge popularity. Not monetary income.


-Agreed. I don't honestly believe that D&D (or tabletop role-playing games in general) is more popular now than it was in the 70s/80s/90s heyday, but I think that the perception of it (along with other nerdy things, like comic books especially) has radically changed since then and it's okay to admit that you play. Even as recent as like in the early 2000s, in my experience, saying you played D&D would get side-eye, not so much maybe something negative as much as something weird and extremely geeky. Now, apparently, not so much.



I am inclined to think D&D and RPGs are more popular than ever. We've got celebrities who say they've played, it's popped up in popular TV shows, there are multiple successful D&D podcasts out there... The success of things like Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, and Game of Thrones has gone a long way towards making D&D more popular.

The biggest indicator for me is where we can buy D&D stuff now. When I first got into D&D, you had to look for hobby shops that catered to modelers and RC people, and then find that one shelf all the way in the back, for any D&D stuff, or you had to find the gaming section of a comic book store. If neither of those places had what you needed, you had to find an ad in Dragon and then send a check or money order to someone to get your material.

I spent years trying to find FR4 The Magister, before discovering eBay.

Now, though? Gaming stores are a thing, there's a gazillion websites serving gaming needs, there's new RPG stuff on Kickstarter every day, Amazon will deliver gaming material to your door, and even places like Target and Wal-Mart carry gaming material. Granted, Target and Wal-Mart generally only have the basic boxed sets and some dice, but still, that's a far cry from what it was during my entry into the gaming world back around 1987.

I'll not say that D&D is mainstream or anything, but it's come a long way since 2000 or so.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

Editor and scribe for The Candlekeep Compendium

I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore

1526 Posts

Posted - 21 Mar 2021 :  18:04:03  Show Profile Send Gyor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus

quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

Still doesn't tell us much. If they'd cut down to a skeleton crew and are regrowing it. Again, not pushing for one way or another, its just I hear things like "the game is more popular than ever" and I truly wonder if there's more people playing than there were in say the 90's and 2000's. That's how I judge popularity. Not monetary income.


-Agreed. I don't honestly believe that D&D (or tabletop role-playing games in general) is more popular now than it was in the 70s/80s/90s heyday, but I think that the perception of it (along with other nerdy things, like comic books especially) has radically changed since then and it's okay to admit that you play. Even as recent as like in the early 2000s, in my experience, saying you played D&D would get side-eye, not so much maybe something negative as much as something weird and extremely geeky. Now, apparently, not so much.



Its way more popular then it used to be,they are making alot of money to the point where WotC is now more profitable then Hasbro's other divisions,not just because of MtG either, D&D's growth rate out did MtG.

https://icv2.com/articles/news/view/47698/wotc-makes-more-money-hasbros-toy-business

Its absolutely more popular then 3e now, never mind 4e,possibly even AD&D even.
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore

1526 Posts

Posted - 21 Mar 2021 :  18:07:11  Show Profile Send Gyor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus

quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

Still doesn't tell us much. If they'd cut down to a skeleton crew and are regrowing it. Again, not pushing for one way or another, its just I hear things like "the game is more popular than ever" and I truly wonder if there's more people playing than there were in say the 90's and 2000's. That's how I judge popularity. Not monetary income.


-Agreed. I don't honestly believe that D&D (or tabletop role-playing games in general) is more popular now than it was in the 70s/80s/90s heyday, but I think that the perception of it (along with other nerdy things, like comic books especially) has radically changed since then and it's okay to admit that you play. Even as recent as like in the early 2000s, in my experience, saying you played D&D would get side-eye, not so much maybe something negative as much as something weird and extremely geeky. Now, apparently, not so much.



I am inclined to think D&D and RPGs are more popular than ever. We've got celebrities who say they've played, it's popped up in popular TV shows, there are multiple successful D&D podcasts out there... The success of things like Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, and Game of Thrones has gone a long way towards making D&D more popular.

The biggest indicator for me is where we can buy D&D stuff now. When I first got into D&D, you had to look for hobby shops that catered to modelers and RC people, and then find that one shelf all the way in the back, for any D&D stuff, or you had to find the gaming section of a comic book store. If neither of those places had what you needed, you had to find an ad in Dragon and then send a check or money order to someone to get your material.

I spent years trying to find FR4 The Magister, before discovering eBay.

Now, though? Gaming stores are a thing, there's a gazillion websites serving gaming needs, there's new RPG stuff on Kickstarter every day, Amazon will deliver gaming material to your door, and even places like Target and Wal-Mart carry gaming material. Granted, Target and Wal-Mart generally only have the basic boxed sets and some dice, but still, that's a far cry from what it was during my entry into the gaming world back around 1987.

I'll not say that D&D is mainstream or anything, but it's come a long way since 2000 or so.



There is also a $100 million block buster movie set in the Forgotten Realms being shot this Spring.
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore

1526 Posts

Posted - 21 Mar 2021 :  18:15:05  Show Profile Send Gyor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
https://comicbook.com/gaming/amp/news/dungeons-dragons-magic-the-gathering-crossover-set-release-date/

Interestingly they noted the same stuff I did, but they seem to believe it means more Forgotten Realms sets are coming. That is certainly possible, it could become a yearly replacement for Core Sets, although if they did I would think they'd hit other D&D settings instead of doing FR again, but I still personally believe it means a Faerun World Campaign Book.
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scererar
Master of Realmslore

USA
1618 Posts

Posted - 23 Mar 2021 :  04:17:52  Show Profile Send scererar a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It would be cool if they did do another book, but I doubt it at this point.
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader

USA
3563 Posts

Posted - 24 Mar 2021 :  00:28:26  Show Profile Send Lord Karsus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

I am inclined to think D&D and RPGs are more popular than ever. We've got celebrities who say they've played, it's popped up in popular TV shows, there are multiple successful D&D podcasts out there... The success of things like Harry Potter, Lord of the Rings, and Game of Thrones has gone a long way towards making D&D more popular.

The biggest indicator for me is where we can buy D&D stuff now. When I first got into D&D, you had to look for hobby shops that catered to modelers and RC people, and then find that one shelf all the way in the back, for any D&D stuff, or you had to find the gaming section of a comic book store. If neither of those places had what you needed, you had to find an ad in Dragon and then send a check or money order to someone to get your material.

I spent years trying to find FR4 The Magister, before discovering eBay.

Now, though? Gaming stores are a thing, there's a gazillion websites serving gaming needs, there's new RPG stuff on Kickstarter every day, Amazon will deliver gaming material to your door, and even places like Target and Wal-Mart carry gaming material. Granted, Target and Wal-Mart generally only have the basic boxed sets and some dice, but still, that's a far cry from what it was during my entry into the gaming world back around 1987.

I'll not say that D&D is mainstream or anything, but it's come a long way since 2000 or so.


-It's all much easier to find, absolutely. The internet will do that. I'll amend my initial statement; I don't know if it's more popular than it was in its 70s/80s/90s heyday or not, but it's way more accepted. I started playing around 2000 or so and the novels were always pretty plentiful and all bunched together in the Sci-Fi/Fantasy section but not so much the actual gaming material. In the big bookstores (Barnes & Noble, Waldenbooks, Borders, B Dalton, those last three are some names I haven't heard in a long time), there wasn't a D&D section. They were either in like the graphic novel/anime section or the game/puzzle/cards/whatever else section. Now, most of those places are closed lol but Barnes & Noble, the only remaining one by me, it has a big D&D section.

-I think the marketing has been very successful to take away the stigma that existed around it even as recently as a decade ago or so, when I started playing it. That goes with comics, and anime, and basically all that stuff that got us made fun of and beat up by bullies in elementary/junior high school. The nerds, as they say, have inherited the earth.

quote:
Originally posted by Gyor

Its way more popular then it used to be,they are making alot of money to the point where WotC is now more profitable then Hasbro's other divisions,not just because of MtG either, D&D's growth rate out did MtG.

https://icv2.com/articles/news/view/47698/wotc-makes-more-money-hasbros-toy-business

Its absolutely more popular then 3e now, never mind 4e,possibly even AD&D even.


-Not supporting or disproving your argument since I have no real interest in going through financial statements and portfolios, but money isn't always the best metric for measurement; Incredibles 2 grossed more than My Fair Lady (even after adjusting for inflation), and one is a culturally significant movie that has been preserved, yada, yada, yada, and the other is Incredibles 2.

(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)

Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium

Edited by - Lord Karsus on 24 Mar 2021 00:56:07
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keftiu
Senior Scribe

600 Posts

Posted - 24 Mar 2021 :  00:48:05  Show Profile Send keftiu a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The big change; the hobby is about a thousand times more diverse than it used to be.

4e fangirl. Here to queer up the Realms.
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Wendolyn
Seeker

56 Posts

Posted - 24 Mar 2021 :  01:06:17  Show Profile Send Wendolyn a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Isn't D&D obviously more popular than it ever was? I've been playing since the 1990s and I've never encountered so much interest and widespread appeal in D&D as I have these days. I'm sure Wizards and Hasbro are doing incredibly, from a financial point of view. 5e is a great edition and very popular. Not saying that earlier editions weren't also great, or that I like everything that's been done, but I think it is beyond debate whether or not 5e and Hasbro have been successful.

Part of the reason for D&D's recent and incredible success is likely due to factors beyond Hasbro's control. The rise of podcasts have allowed people who didn't know about D&D to experience what it is like to play, for the first time. Critical Role is huge, as well as twitch streaming of games. The TV show Stranger Things also brought D&D to a wide audience. And I think following Game of Thrones and the rise of high budget genre fiction TV has also benefited D&D's appeal to mainstream audiences. 5e has benefited from these trends. I also think that D&D promises a social experience that doesn't necessarily involve staring at screens, which I think appeals to lots of people, even parents. I'm seeing more and more after-school programs highlighting D&D. What a wonderful time for the hobby! And it is also becoming more diverse, as scribe Keftiu says, which is sorely needed.
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore

1526 Posts

Posted - 24 Mar 2021 :  18:22:10  Show Profile Send Gyor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wendolyn

Isn't D&D obviously more popular than it ever was? I've been playing since the 1990s and I've never encountered so much interest and widespread appeal in D&D as I have these days. I'm sure Wizards and Hasbro are doing incredibly, from a financial point of view. 5e is a great edition and very popular. Not saying that earlier editions weren't also great, or that I like everything that's been done, but I think it is beyond debate whether or not 5e and Hasbro have been successful.

Part of the reason for D&D's recent and incredible success is likely due to factors beyond Hasbro's control. The rise of podcasts have allowed people who didn't know about D&D to experience what it is like to play, for the first time. Critical Role is huge, as well as twitch streaming of games. The TV show Stranger Things also brought D&D to a wide audience. And I think following Game of Thrones and the rise of high budget genre fiction TV has also benefited D&D's appeal to mainstream audiences. 5e has benefited from these trends. I also think that D&D promises a social experience that doesn't necessarily involve staring at screens, which I think appeals to lots of people, even parents. I'm seeing more and more after-school programs highlighting D&D. What a wonderful time for the hobby! And it is also becoming more diverse, as scribe Keftiu says, which is sorely needed.




People keep forgetting so did Big Bang Theory.
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John Daker
Seeker

USA
78 Posts

Posted - 24 Mar 2021 :  18:50:18  Show Profile Send John Daker a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gyor
People keep forgetting so did Big Bang Theory.


True, but Big Bang Theory was very much a show about "nerds" despite humanizing those nerds and making them relatable to normies, and that fit with preexisting stereotypes about D&D (which is why the show's writers used D&D to begin with). The current phenomenon, with Stranger Things, streams, etc., isn't just about destigmatizing nerds and their love of D&D; for the most part, "nerdiness" isn't part of the equation in these new series at all.
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore

1526 Posts

Posted - 01 Apr 2021 :  20:21:50  Show Profile Send Gyor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by John Daker

quote:
Originally posted by Gyor
People keep forgetting so did Big Bang Theory.


True, but Big Bang Theory was very much a show about "nerds" despite humanizing those nerds and making them relatable to normies, and that fit with preexisting stereotypes about D&D (which is why the show's writers used D&D to begin with). The current phenomenon, with Stranger Things, streams, etc., isn't just about destigmatizing nerds and their love of D&D; for the most part, "nerdiness" isn't part of the equation in these new series at all.



The Kids of the series are very much nerds.
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader

USA
2602 Posts

Posted - 02 Apr 2021 :  00:05:31  Show Profile Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I would say that D&D has become less "niche" than it used to be, thanks to streams like Critical Role.

I agree with Wooly though and am remaining somewhat skeptical: they're using the setting as a backdrop--and perhaps as a lure to fans established fans as a way of saying "we haven't forgotten you", but they throw things out or add things in on a dime, so...

Sweet water and light laughter
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Azar
Learned Scribe

282 Posts

Posted - 02 Apr 2021 :  00:42:35  Show Profile Send Azar a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout

I would say that D&D has become less "niche" than it used to be, thanks to streams like Critical Role.


For better and for worse.

Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.
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keftiu
Senior Scribe

600 Posts

Posted - 02 Apr 2021 :  01:00:38  Show Profile Send keftiu a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Azar

quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout

I would say that D&D has become less "niche" than it used to be, thanks to streams like Critical Role.


For better and for worse.



What does this mean? I’ve got my own complaints with that crew, but the massive influx of new players it’s brought is a positive for the hobby as a whole.

4e fangirl. Here to queer up the Realms.
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Irennan
Great Reader

Italy
3478 Posts

Posted - 02 Apr 2021 :  02:05:50  Show Profile Send Irennan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
@keftiu Out of curiosity, what is it that you don't like about them? I personally tried to watch their stream and couldn't get behind it, but I can't put a finger on what prevented me from enjoying their stuff.

Edited by - Irennan on 02 Apr 2021 02:06:08
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader

USA
2602 Posts

Posted - 02 Apr 2021 :  02:28:31  Show Profile Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I actually really like Critical Role. I decided to check it out when Explorer's Guide to Wildemont came out, and I have really enjoyed watching both campaigns.

Sweet water and light laughter
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Azar
Learned Scribe

282 Posts

Posted - 03 Apr 2021 :  04:31:32  Show Profile Send Azar a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by keftiu

quote:
Originally posted by Azar

quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout

I would say that D&D has become less "niche" than it used to be, thanks to streams like Critical Role.


For better and for worse.



What does this mean? I’ve got my own complaints with that crew, but the massive influx of new players it’s brought is a positive for the hobby as a whole.



For better: more exposure.
For worse: the setting of unrealistically high standards.


  • Good on Critical Role's DM for channeling his passion into the creation of so many visual aids, but most people play with books, paper, pencil, and dice (with the occasional handful of miniatures to help make sense of combat). Time and money are greater luxuries for the rest of us.
  • Most people aren't as photogenic/telegenic, vocally talented and/or classically/industry trained as the primary cast; there's an obvious performative element to the show absent from a typical session of D&D.
  • Campaign tempos tend to fluctuate despite our best efforts and interests wax and wane. Generally speaking, you're not going to witness the same level of engagement from session to session...for the players and certainly to any outside observers.
  • Then, there's the issue of long-term campaign stability being far from a universal guarantee. The cast members of Critical Role are financially stable, romantically stable and they have a rather large incentive to stay on in the form of an audience one million plus strong.
  • Finally, I'd wager that the majority of DMs don't have a production team that works to maximize their appeal.


Yes, I know that Matt once spoke about realistic levels of expectation in this hobby, but it is easy to overlook a single announcement.

Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.
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see
Learned Scribe

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Posted - 07 Apr 2021 :  21:18:37  Show Profile Send see a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Still doesn't tell us much. If they'd cut down to a skeleton crew and are regrowing it. Again, not pushing for one way or another, its just I hear things like "the game is more popular than ever" and I truly wonder if there's more people playing than there were in say the 90's and 2000's. That's how I judge popularity. Not monetary income.


Data direct from Hasbro/WotC was all in dollar terms. In those terms, D&D's biggest year ever was 2018, until it was 2019, until it was 2020.

As far as unit sales, there isn't an available source, but we can compare sales to those of the book industry as a whole with the USA Today archive of top-150 weekly bestsellers, and Amazon's archive of top-100 annual sellers in books. I went through and did that a few months back.

In the USA Today list, 5e products have vastly outperformed 3e, 3.5, and 4e products, on the level of Tasha's being as big a bestseller as those editions' PHBs, while the 5e PHB had more bestseller weeks than all those editions' books combined.

On the Amazon list, the only D&D products that have ever made the whole-year top 100 sellers in book lists were 5e products, with the 5e PHB doing so in 2017, 2018, 2019, and 2020. Rather few books of any kind ever manage the sales to achieve the Amazon whole-year top 100 for four years in a row, being major cultural phenomena (Harry Potter, Twilight, Hunger Games), established perennial standards ("Goodnight, Moon", "What to Expect When You're Expecting"), or classics that have made school curricula ("1984", "To Kill a Mockingbird").

Now, of course, it's hard to determine if sales are matched by actual play, but it seems unlikely that people are buying PHBs in huge numbers to not play, you know?
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