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combatmedic
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
 Posted - 07 Sep 2012 : 21:17:32
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I'm curious to learn what sages here make of the region, and if anyone has used it in play.
Do you get a lot of use out of the AD&D 2E FR series sourcebook?
The H series modules?
What sets it apart from the Savage Frontier?
Do you want to see more adventures, stories, etc set in the Bloodstone Lands?
I have some ideas stewing about a somewhat modified presenation of the region. It doesn't really follow the modules or the sourcebook, but it does take some elements from those sources.
Proposed (definitely not canonical) changes to Damara:
• Damaran culture includes some Tibetan and Syrian influences, without closely resembling any real world culture. Literary stuff from Talbot Mundy and REH mixed in to taste. I’m talking about yak herders, flapped hats, buttered tea to stave off the terrible chill, abominable snowmen, The Black Seers of Yimsha, crazed hashisheenin dressed in long fur coats and wielding crooked knives, the solar mountain deity El-Gabal/Heliogabulus, etc. I may do a little mix-n-match with bits taken from the Bloodstone Lands sourcebook and the Hordelands boxed set.
Chondathan and Illuskan settlers, traders, and miners bring the more familiar ‘Western Fantasy’ elements into the mix.
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YMMV= Your Mileage May Vary. I'm putting it here so I don't have to type it in every other post. :) |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2012 : 00:09:38
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I have always felt the Bloodstone lands were redundant with The North. I never understood why Icewind Dale was placed in the Frozenfar, rather then the Icelakes region where it belonged (read the back cover 9267: The Bloodstone Lands).
I don't mind Vassa (as it is now), but Damara and Impiltur need an overhaul (sorry GK), not just because they are redundant with each other, but they are redundant with a lot of other places (like Cormyr - when you have Cormyr, whats the point of Impiltur?)
Once again, I am looking at this from a DM's point of view. Obviously there is nothing wrong with similar places in a RW environment. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 08 Sep 2012 19:00:15 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2012 : 00:35:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I have always felt the Bloodstone lands were redundant with The North. I never understood why Icewind Dale was placed in the Frozenfar, rather then the Icelakes region where it belonged (read the back cover 9267: The Bloodstone Lands).
I think the back cover of The Bloodstone Lands is in error. Nothing I've read has indicated that the Icewind Dale area was ever intended to be placed elsewhere, and The Crystal Shard predates The Bloodstone Lands by a year. In fact, even on that back cover blurb, only the first sentence refers to the Icewind Dale books -- the books, the characters, and even the locales are not mentioned anywhere else in the blurb or in the book itself.
And from Vaasa to Waterdeep and Calimshan would have been one hell of a long trip... |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 08 Sep 2012 00:37:49 |
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Razz
Senior Scribe
USA
749 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2012 : 00:59:14
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| Damara's style of play is simple if you imagine Damara as the northern lands in Game of Thrones with the "Wall" being the Galenas and Great Glacier blocking Vaasa and beyond. Damara is more like Winterfell an surrounding lands. At least that's how I envision it. |
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Caolin
Senior Scribe
768 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2012 : 01:03:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I don't mind Vassa (as it is now), but Damara and Impiltur need an overhaul (sorrow GK), not just because they are redundant with each other, but they are redundant with a lot of other places (like Cormyr - when you have Cormyr, whats the point of Impiltur?)
Once again, I am looking at this from a DM's point of view. Obviously there is nothing wrong with similar places in a RW environment.
I don't have a problem with there being similar nations across the Realms. I mean, it was refugees from Impiltur that founded Cormyr so it makes sense that they are similar. But what you seem to be suggesting is to have a more designed Realms where every inch has its own unique niche. I'm not sure I like that so much. I'd prefer it to be organic and a little messy and redundant.
Heck, if I had to start from scratch I'd start laying out the map and make sure the geography makes sense and has some sort of explanation as to why certain features are there. Either from plate tectonics and erosion forming an area or super natural forces shaped the land. Then I would figure out where sentient beings appeared and then how they spread across the land....any ways. I could go on about this but it is way off topic. It's just always something that bothered me about fantasy settings. |
Edited by - Caolin on 08 Sep 2012 01:03:53 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2012 : 02:06:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I don't mind Vassa (as it is now), but Damara and Impiltur need an overhaul (sorrow GK), not just because they are redundant with each other, but they are redundant with a lot of other places (like Cormyr - when you have Cormyr, whats the point of Impiltur?)
Damara, yes. Impiltur? Not so much. Impiltur has a legacy of royalty and kingdoms that differs greatly from Cormyr, and an enhanced sense of lost and/or faded greatness. Cormyr is still very much in the "now," so to speak, in terms of its power and glory for the Kingdom. Impiltur is what I'm looking for when I want a "fallen" kingdom that still tries to cling to what made it a power. You can't do that with Cormyr. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Dark Wizard
Senior Scribe
USA
830 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2012 : 02:40:09
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I don't mind Vassa (as it is now), but Damara and Impiltur need an overhaul (sorrow GK), not just because they are redundant with each other, but they are redundant with a lot of other places (like Cormyr - when you have Cormyr, whats the point of Impiltur?)
Damara, yes. Impiltur? Not so much. Impiltur has a legacy of royalty and kingdoms that differs greatly from Cormyr, and an enhanced sense of lost and/or faded greatness. Cormyr is still very much in the "now," so to speak, in terms of its power and glory for the Kingdom. Impiltur is what I'm looking for when I want a "fallen" kingdom that still tries to cling to what made it a power. You can't do that with Cormyr.
The Sage summed up the appeal of Impiltur. It is a reflection of Cormyr in a way (though it has its own history and culture), how things could fall apart. There are also several links between the peoples and royalty of the two lands.
I'm generally in favor of many smallish kingdoms for a game setting. It gives games their own space. Each game can have an effect at the kingdom level (stakes), but not something as extensive as an empire where several regions are affected by any event. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2012 : 05:35:10
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I see your point(s), but I still think anything I could run in Impiltur I could run in Cormyr. On the other hand, Impiltur is good for a DM who's want to run an area he can customize a bit more (so its like 'Cormyr lite').
I have no problem with it. In fact, I didn't get rid of it on my Misbegtton Realms map, I just placed it where Turmish used to be (and Turmish is now far to the south). I should post a pic of that - its actually an amazing fit (you can barely tell I did anything at all).
quote:
Originally posted by Razz
Damara's style of play is simple if you imagine Damara as the northern lands in Game of Thrones with the "Wall" being the Galenas and Great Glacier blocking Vaasa and beyond. Damara is more like Winterfell an surrounding lands. At least that's how I envision it.
Thats actually an excellent idea - wish I had thought of it. For the first time, I'm liking Damara.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 08 Sep 2012 05:36:19 |
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Razz
Senior Scribe
USA
749 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2012 : 06:43:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
quote:
Originally posted by Razz
Damara's style of play is simple if you imagine Damara as the northern lands in Game of Thrones with the "Wall" being the Galenas and Great Glacier blocking Vaasa and beyond. Damara is more like Winterfell an surrounding lands. At least that's how I envision it.
Thats actually an excellent idea - wish I had thought of it. For the first time, I'm liking Damara.
I, too, was having a hard time trying to run a Bloodstone Lands campaign. After reading all I could on the lands and its history and people, I was just beginning to get a good grasp on it. But, compared to other Euro-styled regions, I still had yet to figure on a good theme this place has that's unique to it.
The rugged, harshness of the land definitely does help a lot. And I just ended up getting an even bigger feel for it once I finished both seasons of Game of Thrones. Medieval Europe plus harsh land was definitely the feel I got from that show. Add in magic, demihumans, and monsters and you're good to go. Even the infighting in Westeros is similar to that in Damara. Well, at least in the aftermath of Zhengyi being defeated.
There was this jump from 2E Damara to 3E Damara that left out that entire part where Gareth had about half the baronies on his side, and Dimian Ree had the other half on his. Though Gareth was crowned king, you still had a nation torn between him and Dimian, who rightfully had the throne by blood ties to the last king. They never had a timeline of events of how that situation got solved. One edition there's still warfare going on, the next edition it ended up somehow resolved and no mention of what became of the losers, like Dimian Ree.
Keeping with 2E's state of Damara, the political situation echoes what's going on in season 2 of Game of Thrones. Add in the harsh, but still providing some sustenance, land; the monsters of Vaasa; the exotic and mysterious lands of the Great Glacier; and the hidden dangers of Rawlinswood, with outside civilized ties coming from Impiltur, and you have yourself a pretty solid setting unique in scope to similar realms in Faerun. |
Edited by - Razz on 08 Sep 2012 06:45:53 |
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combatmedic
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2012 : 07:28:26
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Gareth could be the leader of the mostly Chondathan/Illuskan settlers and miners of Bloodstone Barony, while Dimian Ree comes from a native Damaran family with stronger ties to the 'Old Blood' natives.
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YMMV= Your Mileage May Vary. I'm putting it here so I don't have to type it in every other post. :) |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6646 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2012 : 10:00:59
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I don't mind Vassa (as it is now), but Damara and Impiltur need an overhaul (sorrow GK), not just because they are redundant with each other, but they are redundant with a lot of other places (like Cormyr - when you have Cormyr, whats the point of Impiltur?)
I assume you mean "Sorry GK".
Why are you sorry for me? Have I chosen a dud kingdom to write about?
"When you have Cormyr, what's the point of Impiltur?" is an interesting statement. There are many and significant elements of the latter kingdom that are not mirrored in the former. To name just a few things: paladins, psionics, and demons. Can't think that any of those things feature prominently in Cormyr.
Sure, if you want to run a "noble intrigue" campaign in Impiltur, you can just as easily run it in Cormyr, but if you want to run a campaign that focuses on Impiltur's strengths as a region, then you have many vistas of opportunity that will easily let you differentiate from a campaign set in the Forest Kingdom. After all, without Impiltur, there would be no Cormyr.
All IMHO, of course.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
Edited by - George Krashos on 08 Sep 2012 10:01:45 |
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crazedventurers
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1073 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2012 : 12:45:24
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
paladins, psionics, and demons. Can't think that any of those things feature prominently in Cormyr. After all, without Impiltur, there would be no Cormyr.
-- George Krashos
Of course what would be great for the new 5E Realms would be a proper (i.e. wriiten by Krash!) sourcebook on Impiltur and the Demonlands in general, (I'll even have it as a PDF and print it out myself if that's the only way we get to see it published.)
George any chance? please.... pretty please......
Cheers
Damian |
So saith Ed. I've never said he was sane, have I?
Gods, all this writing and he's running a constant fantasy version of Coronation Street in his head, too. .
shudder,
love to all,
THO
Candlekeep Forum 7 May 2005 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11700 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2012 : 13:06:29
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| pre-4e Damara was a great place to run a campaign. Strife between the various Baronies, fallout from the war with Zhengyi, encroaching enemies in the form of humanoids and Talonite worshippers taking over the nearby woodlands. Just below the surface, drow and duergar colonies both. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6646 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2012 : 15:22:03
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quote:
Originally posted by crazedventurers
Of course what would be great for the new 5E Realms would be a proper (i.e. wriiten by Krash!) sourcebook on Impiltur and the Demonlands in general, (I'll even have it as a PDF and print it out myself if that's the only way we get to see it published.)
George any chance? please.... pretty please......
Cheers
Damian
Thanks for the vote of confidence, Damian!
I suppose there's always the chance. I've never said no to WotC, whether it be writing, proofreading, fact-checking, or research.
At the very least I'd be interested in doing a DDI article on Impiltur once 5E comes out.
Guess we'll all have to wait and see who does what and when.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3563 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2012 : 16:02:30
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I don't mind Vassa (as it is now), but Damara and Impiltur need an overhaul (sorrow GK), not just because they are redundant with each other, but they are redundant with a lot of other places (like Cormyr - when you have Cormyr, whats the point of Impiltur?)
I assume you mean "Sorry GK".
Why are you sorry for me? Have I chosen a dud kingdom to write about?
"When you have Cormyr, what's the point of Impiltur?" is an interesting statement. There are many and significant elements of the latter kingdom that are not mirrored in the former. To name just a few things: paladins, psionics, and demons. Can't think that any of those things feature prominently in Cormyr.
Sure, if you want to run a "noble intrigue" campaign in Impiltur, you can just as easily run it in Cormyr, but if you want to run a campaign that focuses on Impiltur's strengths as a region, then you have many vistas of opportunity that will easily let you differentiate from a campaign set in the Forest Kingdom. After all, without Impiltur, there would be no Cormyr.
All IMHO, of course.
-- George Krashos
We have a winner by Technical Knock Out
Would you really need to wait 2 years until 5e to,do an Impultar article......I'm sure you've plenty of threads you could weave in a edition neutral way.....it's not nice to tease us and make wait. |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Lord Snowblood
Acolyte
Australia
25 Posts |
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2012 : 17:30:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Razz
There was this jump from 2E Damara to 3E Damara that left out that entire part where Gareth had about half the baronies on his side, and Dimian Ree had the other half on his. Though Gareth was crowned king, you still had a nation torn between him and Dimian, who rightfully had the throne by blood ties to the last king. They never had a timeline of events of how that situation got solved. One edition there's still warfare going on, the next edition it ended up somehow resolved and no mention of what became of the losers, like Dimian Ree.
According to Road of the Patriarch, Gareth allowed the other barons to continue to rule in their baronies, but he asserted himself over them as he saw fit. There's a scene in which Gareth orders the hangings of several associates of the Citadel of Assassins in the streets of Heliogabalus, without consulting with Dimian first. The baron objects, of course, but the king, surrounded by his epic band of friends, basically stares him down and dares him. Dimian grovels and submits. |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2012 : 19:23:18
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I don't mind Vassa (as it is now), but Damara and Impiltur need an overhaul (sorrow GK), not just because they are redundant with each other, but they are redundant with a lot of other places (like Cormyr - when you have Cormyr, whats the point of Impiltur?)
I assume you mean "Sorry GK".
Why are you sorry for me? Have I chosen a dud kingdom to write about?
Yes, it was supposed to be 'sorry' (I've edited that post).
What I mean is that I am sorry I never cared for it, because I know how much you love it and all the work you've put into it. I think my real problem with it is that its too far away from where I run most of my games to be of any use.
So I moved it.
EDIT: Thats Dambrath on the northern Moonsea - I forgot to tag it. The regular Moonsea cities would go along that 'arm'. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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combatmedic
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2012 : 19:56:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Snowblood
http://phasai.deviantart.com/gallery/#/d2y467o
The above link will give you a little thing I threw together for the Bloodstone land dwarves.........
I don't have time to read all of it now, but I did skim it. I'm impressed!
BTW, I am a big fan of dwarves.
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YMMV= Your Mileage May Vary. I'm putting it here so I don't have to type it in every other post. :) |
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combatmedic
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2012 : 19:59:53
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Psionics in Impiltur?
Hmmmm, anybody know more about that?
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YMMV= Your Mileage May Vary. I'm putting it here so I don't have to type it in every other post. :) |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2012 : 02:24:15
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quote:
Originally posted by combatmedic
Psionics in Impiltur?
Hmmmm, anybody know more about that?
Well, we know Impiltur's first dynasty had a few [hidden] psions who ruled the realm. That is, before the Jhaamdathan bloodline was weakened by intermarriage with the local Nar population.
Krash will likely have more. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6646 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2012 : 10:49:34
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Sage is correct as always. The Mirandor Dynasty, Impiltur's first, was initially of pure Jhaamdathi stock and brought with it the worship of Murdane (Auppenser not so much) to the lands of the Easting Reach. The reason for Murdane was that the Invisible Art seemed to run through more of the female bloodlines than the males, and they gravitated more to the Daughter of Reason than her dad. Where the Invisible Art manifested in the male line, more often than not, it lead to issues of mental instability - issues that blighted the reign of King Varanth I, for example.
While psionics remain rare throughout the Realms, they are ever so slightly more common in the lands of Impiltur for this reason. In more isolated regions of the kingdom (some of the village clusters in the foothills of the Earthfast Mountains), the prevalence rate increases again.
As for doing an article "now", I think that I want to see what 5E brings to the Realms generally, before doing so. Whilst I could work with the 4E developments to the land and massage them into something interesting, I'd prefer to wait and see what the Sundering will bring to the environs of the Reach.
If I get to GEN-CON next year, I plan to bring some goodies for the C-Keep get together. I have no doubt that this will include lore on Impiltur and the East generally.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Razz
Senior Scribe
USA
749 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2012 : 19:00:08
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| Wouldn't Chondathans have a higher rate of spawning naturally psionic people since Chondathans have mostly Jhaamdath blood? |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2012 : 19:11:16
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Not a big fan of psionics (that ranks right up there with aberrations and Spelljamming for me).
However, I have come to the conclusion thats it s really (mostly) the terminology that bothers the heck out of me. Just like how I feel about SJ - if its retooled to be 'sailing through the astral' then it works for me. I don't like it when my (D&D) fantasy seems to Scify-ish (although in novels I don't mind so much... up to a point). I have decided that my Realms has psionics, but that the term 'Mystic' (or Mysticism) is used instead ('Mind-Mage' is just too jarring). Its not a perfect fit, but I think its the best fantasy-sounding term for what psionicists do.
That being said, I think something like 'Mystic Knights' might work as a unique type of Paladin for Impiltur. 'Psionic Paladin' sounds just gawd-awful, but if spun correctly the concept itself can be pretty interesting. Their devotion to a 'higher ideal' has unlocked powers of the mind (although they would consider it a 'gift from the gods').
Cool - you guys just took two things I dislike and turned them into something I can use.
*Grammatical corrections |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 09 Sep 2012 20:55:57 |
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Dark Wizard
Senior Scribe
USA
830 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2012 : 20:12:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
That being said, I think something like 'Mystic Knights' might work as a unique type of Paladin for Impiltur. 'Psionic Paladin' sounds just gawd-awful, but if spun correctly the concept itself can be pretty interesting. Their devotion to a 'higher idea'l has unlocked powers of the mind (although they would consider it a 'gift from the gods').
Cool - you guys just took two things I dislike and turned them into something I can use.
Mystic Knights you say?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZxCg26VZ0bQ&feature=related |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2012 : 20:58:12
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WoW - it almost looks like fantasy version of the Power Rangers. I have no recollection of this series at all.
Great find (even if it had nothing to do with what I was talking about). 
EDIT: Thanks Dark Wizard {sarcasm}
I am now painfully aware of both 'Fat Bottomed Power Puff Girls' and 'Striperella'. There's a reason why I avoid Youtube like the plague.
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 09 Sep 2012 21:22:38 |
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coach
Senior Scribe
USA
479 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2012 : 18:31:02
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OK, i have a BUNCH more info (over 100 pages of canon info outline) than what I am about to post so if anyone has any specific questions about any of the persons/places/things in the Bloodstone Lands just post here and i'll answer everyone. NOTE: I have stopped my canon outline at the spellplague as I had a problem suspending my disbelief when WotC added the mysterious otherwordly alien that the warlock knights sapped strength from and it didn't jive with my ideas of the area, but for a general pre-4e overview:
The Bloodstone Lands were not Ed Greenwood's baby, they are adopted (retconned) from the H-series modules of the 1980's and placed into the area just south and east of the Great Glacier. They have a different feel than the Heartlands but with a little work it can be Realmsified.
Generally, The Bloodstone Lands refer to Damara and Vaasa, but depending on the source, they can include Narfell, the Great Glacier, Sossal, and the underdark region in the area called Deepearth. They also are referred to in some sources as The Cold Lands
CANON THEMES and CAMPAIGN IDEAS that can be used in the Bloodstone area(pre-4e):
1)Good vs Evil - you are either one or the other
2)War torn society - 4 wars in last half century (most commonfolk have a level in warrior/fighter)
3)Civil War - the bloodline ruler (evil) vs the ruler by deed (good)
4)Old-school powers - Orcus, Tiamat, Bahamut, Eltab and the Cult of the Dragon have temples/cults in the region and are major forces
5)Establishing and defending Stronghold - Gareth is trying to tame Vaasa and is offering land grants to groups to build keeps
6)Paladins rule - Monarchy (king is an epic level paladin of Ilmater, Ilmater-based Paladin orders are the troops, church-run schools for all city dwelling children, Yellow Rose monks) Every community in Damara supports at least one chapel
7)Unique cities: Half-orc city pop 10000+ halforcs, a town where goblins/kobolds/orcs/humans/dwarves/etc all exist peacefully
8) All men are created equal - Class divisions less notable than in anywhere on Faerun, other than Royalty and Paladins being referred to as “Sir” or “Milord”
9) Bounty Hunting - Damara will fund adventuring into Vaasa with gold offered for the returned ears of goblins/orcs/giants/and even dragons
Damara is the main focus of the area and has the most sourced canon. Damara is more "feudal" (IMO) than both Impiltur and Cormyr, and there is a worldview on the moral absolute between good vs evil. In Damara, evil will never be compromised with, even for the greater good. In other words, "the ends justify the means" will find no place in Damara. |
Bloodstone Lands Sage |
Edited by - coach on 24 Oct 2012 18:49:58 |
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coach
Senior Scribe
USA
479 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2012 : 18:38:12
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| I thought i put this in which verifies the "feudal" feel to the area but the typical town is rural, frontier-like and guarded by a lord’s keep or fortified abbey |
Bloodstone Lands Sage |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2012 : 18:47:42
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It is pre-4e canon that 'something' slammed into Toril in that region (see the story-arc in the 2e Player's guide to the Forgotten Realms). This happened just around the time of 1e (because in the 2e story, it happened already and they are looking for whatever it is).
There is also a canon meteoroic event discussed in The Great Glacier, also in that same area. This I connect to the melting of part of the glacier, and the 'release' of Vassa from the ice. I don't have my notes anymore, but it happened a few centuries past, IIRC. The timing is perfect, even if we include Melegaunt's tromp through that region around the 1200's.
Two canon events about something large slamming into Toril, LONG before the Spellplague. I like the Warlock Knights, and would use them, and I can easily back-port them into my games because of the above canon. It doesn't have to be a primordial - it could be an elder evil, or even some sort of artifact. Its all good.
If you don't like primordials, simply ignore them. They really don't effect anything that can't be spun a different way. For instance, if I ever run FR again (still on the fence about that one), I would create a composite out of the Abeir/Maztica material, and just say it was the draconic pantheon that returned to Toril - no need for the 'Clash of the Titans' scenario.
EDIT: BTW, like your outline. I will be following this. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 24 Oct 2012 18:55:28 |
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coach
Senior Scribe
USA
479 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2012 : 19:10:01
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it was a Tear of Selune or something like that from that 1e story
the Great Glacier has so many different canon references to why it is/was receding/growing/both and you mentioned one of the canon 'guesses' as to why this is happening
for example i just looked over a source today that had the Sossrim druid covens responsible for the receding of the GG
still suspension of disbelief (for me anyways) that this alien resided there for a couple centuries and a 30th level witchking didn't use it to his advantage, but to each his own, i have no problem with anyone else rolling with it
i have no problem with the concept of warlock knights and i like them too, also a side issue with me of about 8 or 9 epic level characters who were powers in the area are vanished/gone/dead and we have no stories about that - so i felt i would keep my campaign in pre-1380s
but enough about me!!! LOL i just thought it'd be a good idea in my first post above to post that it was MY idea to keep my info from 1e to 3e in the Bloodstone Lands so i just posted a warning as to the timeline of my post because when someone new to the area read the CANON THEMES part i wanted them to know it was pre-spellplague. i sure don't want to go to another 3e vs 4e FR thread, i was just trying to help the OP. |
Bloodstone Lands Sage |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 24 Oct 2012 : 19:35:20
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We are in agreement - I just ignore the primordial part, and don't make the Warlock Knights so monolithic: They have a fortress in the Gelenas and exert some control over the region, but as of yet do not want to openly challenge Damara's claim on Vaasa (which I am not even sure if I would use - I didn't really care for The Sellswords lore).
I would also use Rich Baker's take on Hulburg (in the 3e era though), and the warlock Knight stuff from those novels is still useable with the take I gave them above.
The two versions aren't necessarily incapable, either. The WK could have been a small, clandestine group up until the spellplague, and then whatever 'artifact' they had found could have been awakened by the plague and they could have become the more openly known group of 4e. Thus, no-one really knew about them, and then they got a sudden boost in power, and then they became the official version. it all works. (and 5e design team feel free to use that - I am trying to blend the editions as much as possible on these boards).
Brian James has already stated that the Granite Tower placement on the 4e Demonlands map is incorrect (because of the lore in the short story Darksword, by Troy Denning). It should have been in or near the Bottomless Bogs. That means that location may have been the original Fortress of the Warlock Knights. We can easily make up some story on how the folk of the Granite Tower were chased from their original location, found the old WK fortress and renamed it (as of 4e). That covers the continuity glitch and establishes a location for a 3e era WK group. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 24 Oct 2012 19:46:27 |
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Bloodstone Lands
