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jordanz
Senior Scribe
553 Posts |
 Posted - 05 Feb 2011 : 21:27:38
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It seems like every race has some noteworthy members. Even the Teiflings had KAANYR Vhok but where are the AASIMAR? Are they just so exceeding rare or are they just considered "boring"?
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Edited by - jordanz on 05 Feb 2011 21:30:59
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Fellfire
Master of Realmslore
1965 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2011 : 21:42:40
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| There are in My Realms. A covert arm of the Lathanderian church has had a secret breeding program for generations whose goal is to produce a celestial bloodline of holy warriors to combat the undead menace. I don't think they're boring at all. |
Misanthorpe
Love is a lie. Only hate endures. Light is blinding. Only in darkness do we see clearly.
"Oh, you think darkness is your ally? You merely adopted the dark. I was born in it, molded by it. I didn't see the light until I was already a man, by then it was nothing to me but.. blinding. The shadows betray you because they belong to me." - Bane The Dark Knight Rises
Green Dragonscale Dice Bag by Crystalsidyll - check it out
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7970 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2011 : 21:46:12
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A few individual celestials are noted but no aasimar. I don't recall any aasimar named in the novels.
They're apparently easily forgotten, every depiction of a planar seedy cantina that I've seen has tons of fiends, tieflings, and general freaks, sometimes a few celestial sorts or even a modron, but never an aasimar. I've always thought the aasimar were basically treated as baggage, just an afterthought ... tieflings were cool but some people demanded (or foresaw the demand for) aasimar, so we have them, since everything that comes from the planes must of course have perfect balance and symmetry.  
Although never have I seen anyone play an aasimar, you can bet there'd be hell to pay if the race option ever disappeared. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 05 Feb 2011 21:53:41 |
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jordanz
Senior Scribe
553 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2011 : 22:08:22
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| Yeah thanks for the responses. I've heard that people consider "good" beings and character boring to write and or play.... I always thought the idea of having a ASIMAR priest or Paladin or THief to be very interesting. Maybe it's no coincidence that there are no AASIMAR or Paladins(except for Scott De Bie's book) as a centerpiece in the novels. |
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Brynweir
Senior Scribe
USA
436 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2011 : 22:32:09
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I play a half-celestial (though she was called aasimar for HR), and she has aasimar children. My DM also runs an aasimar who is absolutely fantastic and somehow manages to be quite adorable, as well. We use a lot of aasimar and celestials as well as fiends and half-fiends, tiefling, fey'ri, what have you. I love the mix and the conflicts, and I absolutely would pitch a fit if they removed the race.
As for uses, aasimar make great paladins as well as thieves... And evil aasimar, well, there's any number of roles they are great at. Assassin comes to mind. 
And I have no idea why they think "good" beings would be boring to write or play. In fact, it's possible they just don't know what they are doing or it's too difficult. I find it quite intriguing to write/ play good characters, especially when you give them a proper dilemma. Good characters don't have the same options, well don't resort to the same options, as neutral or evil characters, so it's fascinating to think from that point of view to solve a problem and stay within the alignment.
Playing good is not boring at all unless you make it so. "The cure for boredom is curiosity. There is no cure for curiosity." |
Anyone who likes to read something that's really dark and gritty and completely awesome ought to read The Night Angel Trilogy by Brent Weeks. You can check out a little taste at www.BrentWeeks.com I should probably warn you, though, that it is definitely not PG-13 :-D
He also started a new Trilogy with Black Prism, which may even surpass the Night Angel Trilogy in its awesomeness.
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7970 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2011 : 22:33:56
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Paladins used to be immensely popular, almost every party had one. Even today they're fairly common, though the paladin population has greatly diminished now that other "powerful" options are available. I'm not sure exactly why, but it seems that these days people spend a lot more time hunting for minmax loopholes that'll let them squirm out of the restrictions associated with playing the paladin class.
I think aasimar are a fine race. But for some reason the tieflings steal all the attention. Players never conceive of aasimar swashbucklers, bards, or pirates — they just assume every aasimar wants to be a paladin, priest, or perhaps a wizard, while I've met several DMs who automatically consider such characters too powerful.
A lot of effort has been made to emphasize how tieflings are not (well, mostly not) inherently evil. Tieflings can indeed be noble, good, heroic ... in fact, many strive to prove themselves and defy the darkness which roils in their blood, blah blah blah. And yet the concept of an aasimar going rotten and shuffling around scummy back alleys looking for a victim to mug ... it's just alien. Surely there must be as many evil aasimar as good tieflings? |
[/Ayrik] |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2011 : 22:34:02
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Devas are specific type to aasimar, right? Well, there was one mentioned in Paul's Dawn of Night. Vhostym used him as a sacrifice to activate his Weave Tap. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7970 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2011 : 22:36:18
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lmao, I agree wholeheartedly Brynweir ... I won't edit my above post because repetition adds emphasis.  |
[/Ayrik] |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2011 : 22:41:33
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I know that I, for one, have never had any interest in aasimar... But they're not the only planetouched that doesn't appeal to me. I've no real interest in earth genasi, either, and not much interest in air or fire genasi.
I do like tieflings, but I prefer their appearance as it was in 2E and 3E. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7970 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2011 : 22:43:57
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| Dennis — in D&D terms, there's several types of devas and they're all subtypes of angels. There's also archons, guardinals, eladrin (in older editions, at least), plus assorted unique upper-planar sentients. They're all lumped together as celestials, they can mate with humans/elves/etc to produce half-celestials, and any descendants of these (with much-diluted celestial blood) are aasimar, the exact opposite of tieflings. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 05 Feb 2011 22:47:28 |
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Brynweir
Senior Scribe
USA
436 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2011 : 22:52:19
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Oh, my little half-celestial, she has been CE, NE, CN, and is currently CG. She began life as a thief... and her aasimar son is currently NG after spending time as NE and CE... He is a wizard.
Her mother is a deva and a total.... um meanie  |
Anyone who likes to read something that's really dark and gritty and completely awesome ought to read The Night Angel Trilogy by Brent Weeks. You can check out a little taste at www.BrentWeeks.com I should probably warn you, though, that it is definitely not PG-13 :-D
He also started a new Trilogy with Black Prism, which may even surpass the Night Angel Trilogy in its awesomeness.
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7970 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2011 : 23:26:45
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A little bit off-topic, but how is tiefling pronounced? (I'm not going to bother using the unreadable screwy symbols of phonetic notation.)
I'd long ago assumed TIE- sounds likes tye and rhymes with eye.
Though I hear it most often pronounced as TEE-, sounding like tea and rhyming with sea.
I personally suspect this is largely because in the 4E DDI flash movies, particularly Gnome & Tiefling, the geeky announcer/interviewer had a pseudo-British accent and kept saying TEEFling. Which pronunciation is correct? |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 05 Feb 2011 23:29:30 |
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Tyrant
Senior Scribe
USA
586 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2011 : 23:41:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Arik
Dennis — in D&D terms, there's several types of devas and they're all subtypes of angels. There's also archons, guardinals, eladrin (in older editions, at least), plus assorted unique upper-planar sentients. They're all lumped together as celestials, they can mate with humans/elves/etc to produce half-celestials, and any descendants of these (with much-diluted celestial blood) are aasimar, the exact opposite of tieflings.
I think in that case it could be easily attributed to the nature of the creatures in question. Demons and devils* seem to enjoy "fun" with mortals, and tieflings are the eventual result. Given what I believe most people assume is the more virtuous nature of celestials, there simply won't be as many aasimar as there are tieflings so there are likely to be less aasimar of note because there are fewer in comparison. That's my take on the numbers aspect of it anyway. I like to see the non human races on the stage too, so I would like to see more aasimar (do they even exist in 4e, or are they called something else now?).
It isn't out yet, but Dawnbringer apparently features main characters who are of celestial origin. By the description, I believe they are Devas. The description of their nature is similar to the main character in Circle of Skulls and he was a Deva fighting an evil Angel who was working for Asmodeus.
*I was never clear, do tieflings descend from devils, demons, or both? |
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
-The Sith Code
Teenage Sith zombies, Tulkh thought-how in the moons of Bogden had it all started? Every so often, the universe must just get bored and decide to really cut loose. -Star Wars: Red Harvest |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2011 : 23:56:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I know that I, for one, have never had any interest in aasimar... But they're not the only planetouched that doesn't appeal to me. I've no real interest in earth genasi, either, and not much interest in air or fire genasi.
I've never actually used aasimar in my games, so I can't really say how I feel about them. I mean, like most planar aspects, I love reading about them, but I'm not sure how I'd run them in my games, or even if I'd want to. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2011 : 00:39:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Arik
A little bit off-topic, but how is tiefling pronounced? (I'm not going to bother using the unreadable screwy symbols of phonetic notation.)
I'd long ago assumed TIE- sounds likes tye and rhymes with eye.
Though I hear it most often pronounced as TEE-, sounding like tea and rhyming with sea.
I personally suspect this is largely because in the 4E DDI flash movies, particularly Gnome & Tiefling, the geeky announcer/interviewer had a pseudo-British accent and kept saying TEEFling. Which pronunciation is correct?
I say TIE, myself. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2011 : 00:42:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Tyrant
*I was never clear, do tieflings descend from devils, demons, or both?
I've always assumed both. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2011 : 00:47:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Arik
A little bit off-topic, but how is tiefling pronounced? (I'm not going to bother using the unreadable screwy symbols of phonetic notation.)
I'd long ago assumed TIE- sounds likes tye and rhymes with eye.
Though I hear it most often pronounced as TEE-, sounding like tea and rhyming with sea.
I personally suspect this is largely because in the 4E DDI flash movies, particularly Gnome & Tiefling, the geeky announcer/interviewer had a pseudo-British accent and kept saying TEEFling. Which pronunciation is correct?
I say TIE, myself.
For me, it depends on who is pronouncing it in game. I usually allow "TEE" for non-planars, and "TIE" for planar-folk. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2011 : 00:54:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Tyrant
*I was never clear, do tieflings descend from devils, demons, or both?
I've always assumed both.
Aye, devil or demon, though, they're almost always assumed to be of demonic descent for the most part. As I recall, 4e tieflings are actually the result of a pact made between humans and devils, to gain greater power. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
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Edited by - The Sage on 06 Feb 2011 00:54:57 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7970 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2011 : 01:20:29
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Fiends are fiends, it's not impossible for a yugoloth, gehreleth, obyrith, or something else entirely to be the parent. Given a tiefling's much diluted bloodline, there's probably no functional difference as far as stats and mechanics go, only a difference in background, appearance, and self-identity.
I'm not sure I agree with tieflings being predominantly devilish. Devil pacts are awesome, but demons have a lot of opportunity and inclination to rape and pillage. The 4E tiefling descriptor should also consider that 4E blurs the lines between devils and demons a bit, gathering all the fiends of the lower planes (indeed, the lower planes themselves) under a somewhat reorganized and unified anti-celestial umbrella. Not saying 4E fiend canon is wrong, though it is different from what came before. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Brynweir
Senior Scribe
USA
436 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2011 : 01:20:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Tyrant
I think in that case it could be easily attributed to the nature of the creatures in question. Demons and devils* seem to enjoy "fun" with mortals, and tieflings are the eventual result. Given what I believe most people assume is the more virtuous nature of celestials, there simply won't be as many aasimar as there are tieflings so there are likely to be less aasimar of note because there are fewer in comparison.
I agree. Celestials aren't typically into corrupting mortals just for fun. Also, some deities don't seem to like having half-celestials running around, let alone aasimar.
And I say TEE - silent "i" like in niece. |
Anyone who likes to read something that's really dark and gritty and completely awesome ought to read The Night Angel Trilogy by Brent Weeks. You can check out a little taste at www.BrentWeeks.com I should probably warn you, though, that it is definitely not PG-13 :-D
He also started a new Trilogy with Black Prism, which may even surpass the Night Angel Trilogy in its awesomeness.
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7970 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2011 : 01:29:56
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| lol, so the lack of notable aasimar NPCs is merely a statistical thing? There are so few aasimar that none have yet been noted? In a way I'm unsure I can accept that argument; simply because so many of the "rare" tieflings, genasi, etc have been written up that I sometimes begin to wonder if there's any humans, elves, and dwarves left. All of the Heinz hybrids make me fear for the future of the human race. |
[/Ayrik] |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2011 : 01:41:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Arik
Fiends are fiends, it's not impossible for a yugoloth, gehreleth, obyrith, or something else entirely to be the parent. Given a tiefling's much diluted bloodline, there's probably no functional difference as far as stats and mechanics go, only a difference in background, appearance, and self-identity.
That's largely the way I've run with tieflings in my campaigns. Heh. I've even had a tiefling descended from a baernaloth.  |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Brynweir
Senior Scribe
USA
436 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2011 : 01:47:22
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I think it goes back more to the "cool" factor than statistics. People don't tend to equate good with cool. Look at how people are in general. How many people say they want to be good or date someone who is a good person, then they ignore the good guy for the "cool" guy, even if he has a criminal record a mile long? Somehow "evil" is attractive. So even though there might be just as many aasimar as there are tiefling, no one wants to hear or write about them.
Look at real world TV. How often do you hear about the good Samaritan or the high school kid who is making a positive difference at his school or in his community? Those things happen as often or more often really than the school shootings or random violence. But which stories get covered? Why do so many people have to stop and stare at car accidents, but they walk right past Joshua Bell playing exquisite music on a $3.5 million violin...?
I think that is why tieflings and others get written up and aasimar and paladins don't. No one wants to hear Mozart in the subway. They want to see a train wreck. |
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Tyrant
Senior Scribe
USA
586 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2011 : 01:50:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Arik
lol, so the lack of notable aasimar NPCs is merely a statistical thing? There are so few aasimar that none have yet been noted? In a way I'm unsure I can accept that argument; simply because so many of the "rare" tieflings, genasi, etc have been written up that I sometimes begin to wonder if there's any humans, elves, and dwarves left. All of the Heinz hybrids make me fear for the future of the human race.
I was actually thinking a little more about that after I posted it. If my assumption is right and there are more tieflings, that can be spun into an argument that there should be well known aasimar because their very existance would be a rare thing (and thus they would be "known", should anyone know of them). I'm guessing that no one decided to write any up and help make them known.
As for pronunciation, I have always used Tee.
Regarding the demon/devil/other question, I was just curious because I didn't recall their MM or PH entries indicating it one way or the other. I know the main one I recall in the fiction turned out to not actually be a Tiefling but was actually a halfblood (half-fiend?, half-devil?) son of Mephistopholes. He was able to pass for a Tiefling so I assumed they favored Devil heritage. I guess the only way it might matter is if compelled them to favor Law or Chaos. |
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
-The Sith Code
Teenage Sith zombies, Tulkh thought-how in the moons of Bogden had it all started? Every so often, the universe must just get bored and decide to really cut loose. -Star Wars: Red Harvest |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
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Brynweir
Senior Scribe
USA
436 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2011 : 02:20:59
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| I do too. Well, not in the subway, since we don't have one. Joshua Bell playing Mozart can make you cry... But that wasn't the point |
Anyone who likes to read something that's really dark and gritty and completely awesome ought to read The Night Angel Trilogy by Brent Weeks. You can check out a little taste at www.BrentWeeks.com I should probably warn you, though, that it is definitely not PG-13 :-D
He also started a new Trilogy with Black Prism, which may even surpass the Night Angel Trilogy in its awesomeness.
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7970 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2011 : 02:29:40
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$3.5M violin ... a Guarneri? Mozart's overdone, my current preferences for strings are Bach, Tchaikovsky, Bartók, and Holst. Played by Samvel Yervinyan, Vanessa Mae, and the ever-inept Alex DePue.
Celestials are less likely to impose on mortals? Pull the other wand. They meddle with mortals just as much, they make grievous mistakes, they succumb to ephemeral earthly temptations. Why else would there be so many fallen or outcast celestials? I suppose many aasimar would seek to live among the celestials, explaining their apparent lack of presence.
Good is boring? Yeah, sadly true. We remember and talk about evil (or at least wantonly destructive) characters a lot more than we talk about the good boys and girls. Elminster was boring until his goodness got tarnished, Drizzt was exciting until his goodness got shiny. Just my opinions. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7970 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2011 : 02:38:51
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quote:
Tyrant
... one I recall in the fiction turned out to not actually be a Tiefling but was actually a halfblood (half-fiend?, half-devil?) son of Mephistopholes. He was able to pass for a Tiefling so I assumed they favored Devil heritage. I guess the only way it might matter is if compelled them to favor Law or Chaos.
You're thinking of Magadon. He's a cambion. His big red Hellboy horns are a definite giveaway for Devil heritage, though he goes beyond hiding as a tiefling, he uses big hats and psionic illusion to pass for a normal human. I perceive him as being most definitely Lawful, probably Lawful Good. He seems to enjoy spending his time being a constant victim fumbling around between Very Bad Things. Note that Magadon's archdevil father uses him as a tool to manipulate others, and *spoiler* he consumes half of Magadon's soul, just to be cruel. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 06 Feb 2011 02:48:25 |
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Tyrant
Senior Scribe
USA
586 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2011 : 03:27:55
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quote:
Originally posted by ArikGood is boring? Yeah, sadly true. We remember and talk about evil (or at least wantonly destructive) characters a lot more than we talk about the good boys and girls. Elminster was boring until his goodness got tarnished, Drizzt was exciting until his goodness got shiny. Just my opinions.
I think part of the problem is that good seems to follow a script, more so than evil. You know before you even start the story, that 90+% of the time that good will somehow win. Then you throw in the idea that the good guy needs to have some type of moral code, and you further limit his actions. Meanwhile, the villain can really cut loose and basically do whatever the author wants him to do because he has no rules. At least, that's the way it seems to play out quite often. I believe that's why anti heroes are popular. They are "doing the right thing", but they are willing to kill the villain (or worse). So, I think if the hero is boring then the author/creator didn't bother trying to give him any character. Heroes can be interesting (and they don't have to be anti heroes to do so). It can be hard to compete though when the villains can be as over the top as the author wants them to be. |
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
-The Sith Code
Teenage Sith zombies, Tulkh thought-how in the moons of Bogden had it all started? Every so often, the universe must just get bored and decide to really cut loose. -Star Wars: Red Harvest |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2011 : 03:58:43
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"So, Lone Star, now you see that evil will always triumph because good is dumb."
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Galuf the Dwarf
Senior Scribe
USA
503 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2011 : 04:05:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Arik
A little bit off-topic, but how is tiefling pronounced? (I'm not going to bother using the unreadable screwy symbols of phonetic notation.)
I'd long ago assumed TIE- sounds likes tye and rhymes with eye.
Though I hear it most often pronounced as TEE-, sounding like tea and rhyming with sea.
I personally suspect this is largely because in the 4E DDI flash movies, particularly Gnome & Tiefling, the geeky announcer/interviewer had a pseudo-British accent and kept saying TEEFling. Which pronunciation is correct?
Only actual pronunciation I've heard is from Neverwinter Nights 2, and in that, it was pronounces "TEEFleeng"
Oh, and Jordanz, I'm pretty sure the Sceptered One is actually a half-fiend, not a tiefling/planetouched. |
Galuf's Baldur's Gate NPC stats: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8823
Galuf's 3.5 Ed. Cleric Domains: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14036
Galuf's Homebrew 4th Edition Races: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=13787
Galuf's Homebrew Specialty Priest PrCs: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14353
Galuf's Forgotten Realms Heralds and Allies thread: forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=8766 |
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Are there any noteworthy AASIMAR in the realms?
