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Shizknight
Acolyte
USA
5 Posts |
 Posted - 28 Oct 2007 : 16:43:20
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I was wonder why there isn't a spell of healing for wizards. I know that would severely hurt the purpose of a cleric. But in many Faerun novels I've read there is many instances of mages healing others. Were all of these just that they had a level of cleric?
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My Character's Last Speech
Private: Sir, we are outnumbered 17 to 1. Shouldn't we retreat?
Yxer: Now why would I want to do that? The odds are in our favor.
Private: How is that sir?
Yxer: I'm an archwizard, thats why.
Private: (starts to walk away and mumbles under his breath) We are so dead.
Yxer: (Yells at the private) I heard that!
Yxer - Lvl 17 Wizard/ Lvl 2 Archmage
(Arrogant like all wizards, and wrongly confident in his power. Refusing to listen to his DM's subtle warnings.) |
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Foxhelm
Senior Scribe
Canada
592 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2007 : 16:50:13
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| In the realms there are spells of an arcane nature which would allow for healing... but they are hard and complex compared to Divine healing spells. So just as a marathon running specialist doesn't compete in weightlifting, arcane caster don't usually develop healing spells. |
Ed Greenwood! The Solution... and Cause of all the Realms Problems! |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2007 : 17:01:23
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| The Simbul created a spell called "The Simbul's Synostodweomer" that allows a wizard to heal someone. I can't remember if I am spelling it right...but I think it was a 5th level spell. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2007 : 17:33:34
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quote:
Originally posted by dalor_darden
The Simbul created a spell called "The Simbul's Synostodweomer" that allows a wizard to heal someone. I can't remember if I am spelling it right...but I think it was a 5th level spell.
In 2E it was 9th level. I can't recall if it got moved in 3E. |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2007 : 19:06:08
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One of the subtleties of the Realms and its magic seem to be that there aren't absolutes about magic so much as tendencies. Its really challenging for a wizard to come up with and cast healing magic, and while wizard's can cast all kinds of shapechanging magic, according to Ed's responses, clerics, if they are granted shapechanging magic, are much better at actually changing what something is into something else, other than just taking on its guise and getting some of its abilities (i.e. the new form being fertile and able to produce offspring, for example).
I can picture wizard "healing" being much more specific, since another difference between arcane and divine magic seems to be the effect produced. Arcane spells seem to produce a given effect, which a spellcaster can apply however they want to, but the effect tends to lend itself to something specific. Divine spells seem to be more "outcome based." Healing is healing, its not, "cure broken bone," or "relieve muscle fatigue."
So I can picture arcane "healing" spells being much more "effect" based. For example, a spell that specifically knits bones, which would be handy for fixing a broken bone fast, but would still require the caster to be a skilled healer that can set the bone properly in the first place. A cleric may still need to more or less line up a broken bone, but the cure spell ends up fixing the bone, the torn muscle and skin, and probably some of the fatigue from the stressed muscle as well.
For what its worth, the MWP d20 Dragonlance supplement Towers of High Sorcery has a few arcane "healing" spells in it as well, such as timeheal, life transfer, and reverse death. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4686 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2007 : 20:32:55
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| As far as it goes the Bard has arcane healing spells. One of the more oddest things I saw 3.X bring to the Bard class. However because it exists it clearly makes sense a Wiz or Sor could reasch the spell and add it to known spells. Of course the DM needs to be convinced to say reseaxh was successful. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Brynweir
Senior Scribe
USA
436 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2007 : 21:47:26
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| How would you classify the Ranger's spell Cure Serious Wounds? |
Anyone who likes to read something that's really dark and gritty and completely awesome ought to read The Night Angel Trilogy by Brent Weeks. You can check out a little taste at www.BrentWeeks.com I should probably warn you, though, that it is definitely not PG-13 :-D
He also started a new Trilogy with Black Prism, which may even surpass the Night Angel Trilogy in its awesomeness. 
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Kes_Alanadel
Learned Scribe
USA
326 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2007 : 21:48:39
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Rangers cast divine spells, granted by their patron deity.
~Kes |
Ack! I seem to have too much blood in my coffee stream!
When did 'common sense' cease to be common? |
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Brynweir
Senior Scribe
USA
436 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2007 : 21:50:57
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| Thanks. I always get divine spells and arcane mixed up. I don't really use magic that much. |
Anyone who likes to read something that's really dark and gritty and completely awesome ought to read The Night Angel Trilogy by Brent Weeks. You can check out a little taste at www.BrentWeeks.com I should probably warn you, though, that it is definitely not PG-13 :-D
He also started a new Trilogy with Black Prism, which may even surpass the Night Angel Trilogy in its awesomeness.
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 28 Oct 2007 : 23:37:24
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
As far as it goes the Bard has arcane healing spells. One of the more oddest things I saw 3.X bring to the Bard class. However because it exists it clearly makes sense a Wiz or Sor could reasch the spell and add it to known spells. Of course the DM needs to be convinced to say reseaxh was successful.
Originally Bards used Druid Magic and had healing spells...I liked their new list of spells with 3.x...but thought they should be divine casters again.
I actually wish they would get rid of the Bard Class and make it a prestige class...but that is just my view being a lover of 1st Edition Bards. Being a Bard used to be something really special in the Forgotten Realms...now they are everywhere. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2007 : 00:12:20
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| I wouldn't agree that its a given that because bards cast arcane spells and they get healing spells that it would follow that wizards and sorcerers would be able to research similar spells. The assumption with spontaneous casters seems to be that they are "born" with a degree of their abilities, and bards don't cast quite like sorcerers do. I imagine that "song" magic, while technically arcane, is more soothing and thus able to heal. Who knows, perhaps bards are fairly close to being a natural hybrid of arcane and divine, but they skew toward the divine. Its not like there is a shortage of gods that would grant the ability to talented singers in the Realms. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4686 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2007 : 01:11:05
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Hey I did not write the rules, just reported on how they exist in 3.X.
Two types of magic, Bard moved from Divine to Arcane and still able to cast healing spells. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2007 : 15:39:59
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I personally would appreciate if the Bard moved back to its Celtic beginnings. The 3e Bard was closer to a minstrel than a bard (and there is a distinction if you do the research). |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
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He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
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* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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Jamallo Kreen
Master of Realmslore
USA
1537 Posts |
Posted - 29 Oct 2007 : 17:30:33
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I personally would appreciate it if there was still at least some shred of difference between which spells clerics and arcane casters can access. Until 3rd edition, there was a reason to have more than one type of spellcaster around. Now, there's d*mned little reason to have a sorcerer or wizard at all, since clerics can now cast almost every spell they can (or have a clerical version of their own for it, but under a different name), and have the ability to cure, heal, neutralize posions, cast regenerate and raise the dead, and have a wider weapon and armor selection, and better THAC ... er ... BABs!
Clerics -- who needs any other class when you have one of them around? Bah! Where do the quarters go?
Thank the gods that I almost invariably run and play in the Forgotten Realms, where gods and goddesses require their clerics to do actual clerical stuff sometimes; if I had been playing in any other campaign setting I'd have chucked D&D completely three or four years ago.
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freyar
Learned Scribe
Canada
220 Posts |
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
USA
1707 Posts |
Posted - 30 Oct 2007 : 17:15:46
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One of the old 2E "unwritten rules" for spell design was to not give wizards healing spells or they'd minimize the clerics. Thus, if there was an arcane healing spell (and I snuck one or two "good" necromantic spells in 2E CoS), it had to have a greater cost and level than the same healing did for a cleric. THAT was one of the primary design reasons why you didn't see that many wizardly healing spells, IMO.
Steven Schend
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For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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Brynweir
Senior Scribe
USA
436 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2007 : 23:10:57
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I really don't use magic often, so there is a lot I don't understand.
One question: on the divine bard it says "Like druids, paladins, and rangers, divine bards need not designate a specific deity as the source of their spells."
If these classes do not designate a diety how do they get their spells? |
Anyone who likes to read something that's really dark and gritty and completely awesome ought to read The Night Angel Trilogy by Brent Weeks. You can check out a little taste at www.BrentWeeks.com I should probably warn you, though, that it is definitely not PG-13 :-D
He also started a new Trilogy with Black Prism, which may even surpass the Night Angel Trilogy in its awesomeness.
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2007 : 23:43:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Brynweir
I really don't use magic often, so there is a lot I don't understand.
One question: on the divine bard it says "Like druids, paladins, and rangers, divine bards need not designate a specific deity as the source of their spells."
If these classes do not designate a diety how do they get their spells?
Hmm, is that from one of the core (that is, non-FR) supplements? Generic D&D allows characters to cast divine spells without a deity, but that is not the case in the FR setting, specifically. |
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--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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turox
Learned Scribe
USA
145 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2007 : 23:47:03
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From page 33 of the 3.5 PHB "Druids cast divine spells much the same way clerics do, though most get their spells from the power of nature rather than from deities." In the FRCS on page 8 "Every cleric chooses a patron deity." I am not sure where it says that druids, paladins, and rangers has to as I don't have the FRCS memorized yet. (Sage, Wooly?) But I have read many times here and on the WotC forums that if you want to cast divine magic you must choose a patron deity.
Short answer (too late?) that statement is for the Core not the Realms. |
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Wizard's First Rule: Chapter 36, Page #397, US Hard Cover (revealed by Zeddicus Zu'l Zorander).
Explanation by Zeddicus Zu'l Zorander: "People are stupid; given proper motivation, almost anyone will believe almost anything. Because people are stupid, they will believe a lie because they want to believe it's true, or because they are afraid it might be true. People’s heads are full of knowledge, facts, and beliefs, and most of it is false, yet they think it all true. People are stupid; they can only rarely tell the difference between a lie and the truth, and yet they are confident they can, and so are all the easier to fool."
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Brynweir
Senior Scribe
USA
436 Posts |
Posted - 02 Nov 2007 : 00:04:38
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Okay, so it's not true in FR.
I know that the gods play a huge role in everyday life and that you MUST have a patron diety for divine spells. I would still like to know, even if it is from Core, how they cast divine spells wihtout a patron diety.
(Sorry this is off topic.) |
Anyone who likes to read something that's really dark and gritty and completely awesome ought to read The Night Angel Trilogy by Brent Weeks. You can check out a little taste at www.BrentWeeks.com I should probably warn you, though, that it is definitely not PG-13 :-D
He also started a new Trilogy with Black Prism, which may even surpass the Night Angel Trilogy in its awesomeness.
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Mirza
Acolyte
8 Posts |
Posted - 02 Nov 2007 : 00:28:04
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| Well, spellfire can heal, but not every mage really has access to that... |
"No one is born hating another person because of the color of his skin, or his background, or his religion. If people can learn to hate they can be taught to love, for love comes more naturally to the human heart than its opposite."
-Nelson Mandela |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11704 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2007 : 22:05:52
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Damaran Blood Mages often heal with arcane magic according to a 2nd edition resource. The fact that this works easily into 3rd edition mechanics as well is just great. After all, Ilmater is worshipped in Damara heavily. Ilmater is one of the FEW gods with the healing domain, which is all cure spells. Arcane disciple feat allows you to cast spells from a domain of your god as arcane spells. Thus, wizards in Damara following Ilmater take the arcane disciple feat and can double as healers. The one problem with this is you need a decent wisdom, but then if you have some Damaran wizard-monks who learned at the monastery of the yellow rose... having a decent wisdom & dex instead of just a decent dex is appreciated since you can't wear armor. I also liked a build I did for the ex-red wizard, Myrddin Viligoth, who rode with the Twilight Riders at the behest of Gareth Dragonsbane... wizard/red wizard/paladin/arcane devotee/war weaver... having arcane disciple(healing) and war weaver levels was very interesting in an army commander.
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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MerrikCale
Senior Scribe
USA
947 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2007 : 01:53:12
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| Dragons can cast healing spells correct? And sorcerers derive their powers from (among other things perhaps) draconic heritage correct? Shouldn't sorcerers therefore have access to healing spells? |
When hinges creak in doorless chambers and strange and frightening sounds echo through the halls, whenever candlelights flicker where the air is deathly still, that is the time when ghosts are present, practicing their terror with ghoulish delight. |
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freyar
Learned Scribe
Canada
220 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2007 : 17:21:10
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quote:
Originally posted by MerrikCale
Dragons can cast healing spells correct? And sorcerers derive their powers from (among other things perhaps) draconic heritage correct? Shouldn't sorcerers therefore have access to healing spells?
It depends on the breed of dragon. Some dragons can cast cleric spells as sorcerers, but not all. In addition, I think that bit about sorcerers being descended from dragons is more fluff than crunch. Maybe there is a heritage feat that would let you add spells to the sorc/wizard spell list, though. |
My DnD Links and Creations |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2007 : 17:23:04
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quote:
Originally posted by MerrikCale
Dragons can cast healing spells correct? And sorcerers derive their powers from (among other things perhaps) draconic heritage correct? Shouldn't sorcerers therefore have access to healing spells?
My guess is that the bloodline would have been so diluted by the time the character was born that they just had an inborn talent for general arcane spells, not draconic bloodline specific ones. Anyways, dragon blood is only one way to obtain sorcerous powers. Celestial blood and infernal blood are the other two ways. Check out the Draconic Heritage feats in Complete Arcane and the Celesital and Fiendish Heritage feats in Player's Handbook II. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
One, two! One, two! And through and through
The vorpal blade went snicker-snack!
He left it dead, and with its head
He went galumphing back. --Lewis Carroll, Through the Looking-Glass
"Mmm, not the darkness," Myrin murmured. "Don't cast it there." --Erik Scott de Bie, Shadowbane
* My character sheets (PFRPG, 3.5, and AE versions; not viewable in Internet Explorer)
* Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Reference Document (PFRPG OGL Rules)
* The Hypertext d20 SRD (3.5 OGL Rules)
* 3.5 D&D Archives
My game design work:
* Heroes of the Jade Oath (PFRPG, conversion; Rite Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 1: Cantrips & Orisons (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Compendium Arcanum Volume 2: 1st-Level Spells (PFRPG, designer; d20pfsrd.com Publishing)
* Martial Arts Guidebook (forthcoming) (PFRPG, designer; Rite Publishing)
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Aravine
Senior Scribe
USA
608 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2007 : 17:23:37
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quote:
Originally posted by freyar
quote:
Originally posted by MerrikCale
Dragons can cast healing spells correct? And sorcerers derive their powers from (among other things perhaps) draconic heritage correct? Shouldn't sorcerers therefore have access to healing spells?
It depends on the breed of dragon. Some dragons can cast cleric spells as sorcerers, but not all. In addition, I think that bit about sorcerers being descended from dragons is more fluff than crunch. Maybe there is a heritage feat that would let you add spells to the sorc/wizard spell list, though.
but there is that thing where sorcerers cast stuf in the Draconomicon(some of it) at +1 level |
The brave don't live forever,the cautious don't live at all |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2391 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2016 : 11:52:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Shizknight
But in many Faerun novels I've read there is many instances of mages healing others. Were all of these just that they had a level of cleric?
quote:
Originally posted by Foxhelm
In the realms there are spells of an arcane nature which would allow for healing... but they are hard and complex compared to Divine healing spells. So just as a marathon running specialist doesn't compete in weightlifting, arcane caster don't usually develop healing spells.
There's another set of possibilities: alchemy.
According to Volo’s Guide to All Things Magical -
- Bluestone (ditroite): powdered + water + any magical radiance = minor healing potion (neutralize poison or cures 1d2 HP), or boost to existing healing potion (neutralize poison and cures 1d4 HP).
- Dioptase: stone + any enchanted liquid = minor healing potion (cure 1 HP).
- Emerald: gives extra charges and slow recharging if included in a healing item.
- Orblen: converts healing spells into revitalizing and slowly healing magical radiation (without being expended).
- Star Ruby: powdered + knock + wraithform = healing mist (elixir of health + regeneration + heal + limited restoration, works via inhalation on mammals only)
- Topaz: absorbs and releases (by dissolving) healing spells
- Ulvaen (amblygonite): closes and cures wounds by touch.
I'd assume that at least some of these effects can be exploitable without consumption in enchanted items.
Such as e.g. an item using bluestone and orblen (and something else) in a right sort of meld could work minor healing by feeding on some radiance spells - something like each round of being wrapped in faerie fire (or interacting with its continuous version) gives a saving throw vs. present poisons + cures 1d2 HP, and the wearer receives saving throw bonus (or ST reroll, or even negation for the wearer only with dispel check) vs. instant poison effects while active and vs. toxic radiances like green beam of prismatic spray even if inactive. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4430 Posts |
Posted - 23 Nov 2016 : 12:35:40
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4e had this as well Synostodweomer
In 3.5 you could also be a domain mage and ask the DM if you could grab the healing domain. There was also Arcane Devotion feat which allowed access to 1 domain if your Wisdom was high enough.
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Alexander Clark
Learned Scribe
106 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2016 : 00:41:20
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So most people here seem to agree that clerics need a deity to cast their spells. However a site that frequently gets linked on this forums states otherwise:
quote:
realmshelps.net
Though some of the domains below mention deities that can grant access to their followers a cleric need not select a specific deity to have access to a planar domain. A cleric who devotes himself to a specific alignment (LG, NG, CG, LN, CN, LE, NE, or CE) rather than a deity can select a planar domain in place of his two normal domain choices.
http://www.realmshelps.net/charbuild/classes/prestige/realms/jordainvizier.shtml
So which source is right? |
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Arcane Healing
