| Author |
 Topic  |
|
Lady Kazandra
Senior Scribe
Australia
921 Posts |
 Posted - 22 Sep 2007 : 10:03:42
|
Wow! Knight, I'm going to have to spend some quality time with this particular thread. I like what I've briefly skimmed over so far.
|
"Once upon a time the plural of 'wizard' was 'war'." -- The Last Continent, by Terry Pratchett |
 |
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2007 : 14:34:52
|
It is some seriously good stuff...
One thing that occurs to me, though, with all this mess with Cyric: wouldn't it be fun if Bane was actually behind Cyric's actions, in an attempt to get Strife back?   |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
|
|
|
KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2007 : 18:34:58
|
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
It is some seriously good stuff...
One thing that occurs to me, though, with all this mess with Cyric: wouldn't it be fun if Bane was actually behind Cyric's actions, in an attempt to get Strife back?
You are the most devious hamster I know . . . |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2007 : 19:01:02
|
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
It is some seriously good stuff...
One thing that occurs to me, though, with all this mess with Cyric: wouldn't it be fun if Bane was actually behind Cyric's actions, in an attempt to get Strife back?
You are the most devious hamster I know . . .
Putting a fun twist on someone else's work is my specialty.
And the Bane idea also works with the canon as presented -- while I love what you've done here, the Bane idea works either way. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 22 Sep 2007 19:02:17 |
|
|
|
Chosen of Moradin
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1120 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2007 : 21:50:09
|
Moradinīs beard! Now we have a great Darrown right here, fellow Knight! That scroll of yours is a fair fallhammer, and a true vellamorn.
Heh! I almost could see the look in the face of Cyric, while heīs seeding the strife between Siamorphe and Tyr. |
Dwarf, DM, husband, and proud of this! :P
twitter: @yuripeixoto
Facebook: yuri.peixoto |
|
|
|
KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2007 : 22:39:57
|
| A knight could do much worse than to be named a kin to dwarven in nature, and hopefully not too hidden of a treasure at that. Glad that you found it satisfying though (what kind of paladin of Deneir would I be if I couldn't translate dwarven colloquialisms?). |
|
|
|
KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 02 Feb 2008 : 01:00:44
|
Just a weird side note. I was looking for this thread to post a link in another thread that I posted where I referenced it, and the search function was going a little wobbly on me, so I Googled the title of the article.
I pulled up a thread on EN World about it, as well as one on an Itallian FR fan discussion group and a Chinese one as well. If the translation that I read is fairly accurate, I'm a bigger hit in Italy and China than on EN World. EN World (somewhat rightly, I'll admit) seems to almost unanimously agree that I'm a desperate, talentless hack that writes needlessly convoluted material.
The only thing I took issue with was the implication that somehow this was intended to look like "official" Realmslore, because the OP didn't cite where he had found the PDF of this article. Good lord, me writing official Realmslore could be worse than loosing the Spellplague there . . .
At any rate, I have to say is kind of odd finding comments about my work outside of Candlekeep, so it was a strange, surrealistic moment I wanted to share with all of you . . .  |
|
|
|
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2008 : 22:16:11
|
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
I pulled up a thread on EN World about it, as well as one on an Itallian FR fan discussion group and a Chinese one as well. If the translation that I read is fairly accurate, I'm a bigger hit in Italy and China than on EN World. EN World (somewhat rightly, I'll admit) seems to almost unanimously agree that I'm a desperate, talentless hack that writes needlessly convoluted material.
People actually said that? What a bunch of jerks. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
|
|
|
KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2008 : 22:28:37
|
To be fair, our own Uzzy defended me, and after I popped in to point out that this was never meant to "seem" official (as some of the posters started calling it a fraud because the OP of the thread presented it out of context), Mkhaiwati and a few others chimed in a bit more positively. (Hooray Candlekeep Scribes!)
Plus, a lot of these guys pretty much cackle with glee anytime Realms fans are upset by something, so its fairly easy to take it with a grain of salt. |
|
|
|
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 03 Feb 2008 : 22:32:48
|
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
To be fair, our own Uzzy defended me, and after I popped in to point out that this was never meant to "seem" official (as some of the posters started calling it a fraud because the OP of the thread presented it out of context), Mkhaiwati and a few others chimed in a bit more positively. (Hooray Candlekeep Scribes!)
Plus, a lot of these guys pretty much cackle with glee anytime Realms fans are upset by something, so its fairly easy to take it with a grain of salt.
All right. Yeah, I'm not sure if I'd want to visit those boards, if there are so many of the "cackle with glee" types there. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
|
|
|
KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2008 : 04:48:24
|
Some of the guys there aren't bad guys, but I get the feeling that a lot of people there like to theorize and tinker. They don't have any particular attachment to a given aspect of lore or tradition in the rules, so its easier for them to accept 4th edition, and sometimes they have a hard time understanding people that are more attached to the lore than to the game as a more abstract hobby.
However, when you add to the mix the handful of very vocal posters that seem to violently dislike the Realms, then you get some somewhat frustrating threads going on, if you have any concern for the Realms at all.
But what I love is the people that hate the Realms to its very core, but now say that they might like it because its changed, or they might pick it up and "give it a try," and then point out that this proves that WOTC is right to change everything and we (old guard) are holding the setting back, or at least trying to. Of course, I won't question that they might pick it up out of curiosity. My first instinct is to say that 50% of them may say they will but won't end up doing so, but if I said that, I'd be no better than the infuriating people that swear all of us that don't like 4th edition or the 4th edition Realms will eventually give in.
However, I don't feel that I'm out of line by wondering, even if WOTC has gotten these Realms haters to pick up a copy of the new books, have they created 20 year fans of the setting? Or have they just gotten someone that might not have to pick up one or two Realms products before they move on again?
But I'm kinda drifting off topic with that. Suffice to say, I was surprised to find this made it around the Interwebnet the way it did, though its still likely just a handful of people from a few more sites than I was aware of. |
|
|
|
Mkhaiwati
Learned Scribe
USA
252 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2008 : 05:16:02
|
yep, there are a lot of those people there who clap their hands with glee whenever something bad happens to the Realms. I just lurk mostly because I hate getting into arguments there. Just don't harm Eberron!
And you are right on with most of your last post. Even on Enworld, the last poll about FR showed more people leaving than coming in, yet two or three posters swear it proved that WotC is doing the right thing..
The OP in that thread really messed up when he thought it was done by a WotC staffer. That just got all the anti-FR folks riled up and calling you a hack. It may not have been polished like most publications, but it has more imagination than the stuff WotC puts out.
hmmm... more imagination and then they complain you are too convoluted and Byzantine in your work.... I wonder what that says about the posters there. |
"Behold the work of the old... let your heritage not be lost but bequeath it as a memory, treasure and blessing... Gather the lost and the hidden and preserve it for thy children."
"not nale. not-nale. thog help nail not-nale, not nale. and thog knot not-nale while nale nail not-nale. nale, not not-nale, now nail not-nale by leaving not-nale, not nale, in jail." OotS #367 |
|
|
|
KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2008 : 05:26:25
|
It probably means they like pit fiends teleporting summoned devils in front of people to blow them up real good . . .
I also found it a little ironic that one of the complaints was that the gods were acting like bad B movie villains. I get the feeling that some of the people commenting hadn't read the last page of the Grand History. |
|
|
|
Darkmeer
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2008 : 05:50:24
|
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Some of the guys there aren't bad guys, but I get the feeling that a lot of people there like to theorize and tinker. They don't have any particular attachment to a given aspect of lore or tradition in the rules, so its easier for them to accept 4th edition, and sometimes they have a hard time understanding people that are more attached to the lore than to the game as a more abstract hobby.
>snip<
But what I love is the people that hate the Realms to its very core, but now say that they might like it because its changed, or they might pick it up and "give it a try," and then point out that this proves that WOTC is right to change everything and we (old guard) are holding the setting back, or at least trying to.
>snip again<
However, I don't feel that I'm out of line by wondering, even if WOTC has gotten these Realms haters to pick up a copy of the new books, have they created 20 year fans of the setting? Or have they just gotten someone that might not have to pick up one or two Realms products before they move on again?
I'll leap on topic in just a moment, but I have something to say, first.
To the first part of the quote, I completely agree. I think that a good number of scribes want to do some rules tinkering (myself included). As to the understanding part, well, it depends on the type of gamer they are. I'm a quasi-method actor. The only difference is I try to find mechanics that work for my methods. Not to generalize, but how many of them are more rule-math-looting types? That is the question for them.
As to the haters who are going to give it a try: They are 1-2 year fans for the most part, and some of them will become as enraged as me over the nuke once they see the previously published stuff (or maybe not). Maybe that's what WotC wants, but I don' t think that's good for the setting or long-term profits. There is a group of these haters that switches game type weekly/monthly/whatever, and none of them is really happy with any system because of x, y, or z flaw.
The reality, in my mind, is that they have sold 3 realms products to many or most of them, which may or may not add up to what we established fans have in numbers who will or will not purchase. That remains to be seen, and I dare not try to ask Savras.
/end off-topic rant.
One thought comes to mind here, I have to think that Cyric would have a back-up plan for failure. Why not move his divine realm?
The far realm is awful, and being stuck/stranded away from his divine realm really stinks (although I like it). One thought for Cyric, and it would lower his divine rank for a period of time (I'm sure) is to implode the Supreme Throne. Sadly, the expenditure of energy required to keep it in existance would be too much, but if he's weakened to Demigod status by this, why wouldn't he destroy his realm, voluntarily?
The thought I have is that he's got a secondary plan for just this event. I dare not think about what Cyric would do, especially if he sloughed off his mortal essence.
/d
|
"These people are my family, not just friends, and if you want to get to them you gotta go through ME." |
|
|
|
Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
USA
1707 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2008 : 10:58:45
|
Very impressive stuff, Knight. (And as a long-time fan of Earth-1/Earth-2, I applaud the two Torils model...especially if it makes the Chosen the Justice Society. )
As for using the Chosen to stabilize the Weave, that's a perfect reason for them to disappear into their towers or respective holds and focus on that--their power allows them to go without sleep, food, et al. Nifty....with plots left open instead of closed.... <insert Steven's polite clapping here>
Steven |
For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
|
|
|
|
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2008 : 20:17:37
|
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
However, I don't feel that I'm out of line by wondering, even if WOTC has gotten these Realms haters to pick up a copy of the new books, have they created 20 year fans of the setting? Or have they just gotten someone that might not have to pick up one or two Realms products before they move on again?
Like some other people, I have the feeling that most of the people who "vehemently hate the Realms" (as opposed to those who merely aren't too attached to the setting) will find some other reason to dislike the setting. The character they love to hate--Elminster--will still be there, after all. |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
|
|
|
KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2008 : 23:15:30
|
quote:
Originally posted by Steven Schend
Very impressive stuff, Knight. (And as a long-time fan of Earth-1/Earth-2, I applaud the two Torils model...especially if it makes the Chosen the Justice Society. )
As for using the Chosen to stabilize the Weave, that's a perfect reason for them to disappear into their towers or respective holds and focus on that--their power allows them to go without sleep, food, et al. Nifty....with plots left open instead of closed.... <insert Steven's polite clapping here>
Steven
Thank you very much Steven, and let me just say, one compliment from Steven is worth about a metric ton of EN World critics (but worry not, I know my work can be a bit rough . . . the head grows not too large to fit through the door yet . . . ) |
|
|
|
KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 04 Feb 2008 : 23:21:04
|
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Like some other people, I have the feeling that most of the people who "vehemently hate the Realms" (as opposed to those who merely aren't too attached to the setting) will find some other reason to dislike the setting. The character they love to hate--Elminster--will still be there, after all.
Oh, I'm already hearing some rumblings about the fact that anything survived, which is kind of funny, because if everything was wiped out, it would be even less of the same setting than it is now. At any rate, I've never really understood wanting someone else's passion to fail just because you don't share in it. |
|
|
|
Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2008 : 00:56:19
|
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Oh, I'm already hearing some rumblings about the fact that anything survived, which is kind of funny, because if everything was wiped out, it would be even less of the same setting than it is now.
Are they just upset that the FR hasn't turned into a completely different setting? Were they really hoping that the Realms would be discontinued altogether? Probably.
quote:
At any rate, I've never really understood wanting someone else's passion to fail just because you don't share in it.
Neither do I. Being that full of spite over a GAME is just plain weird... |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
|
|
|
Dalvyn
Acolyte
11 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2008 : 01:24:41
|
Hello, KnightErrantJR.
You cited Italian and Chinese above, but I see you still lack an official French translation. ;)
Do you have any objection to my translating this story and your article on "the Forbidden Enclave" in French and making the result available on a web site? You would naturally be given explicit credit and I would provide a link to both this thread and the article here on the Candlekeep site.
As a side note, I'm glad to read in the posts above that I am not the only one who interpreted many of the unjustified "That's GOOD! Wow, that's cool. I LIKE it!" 4th edition posts on ENWorld as "rejoicing and cackling just because those modifications spite others".
Anyway, whatever your answer is, thanks for sharing this story! |
|
|
|
KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2008 : 01:29:54
|
Heck, I would be honored if you cared to translate those articles. Thank you very much both for asking and for wanting to do so. Just make sure to plug Candlekeep as well as me, since I wouldn't have half the drive I do without this wonderful place (thanks Alaundo).
(Hm . . . now I feel guilty that I can't actually read any of these other sites . . . ) |
|
|
|
Dalvyn
Acolyte
11 Posts |
Posted - 05 Feb 2008 : 21:08:52
|
If you want a copy, the preliminary draft is online at
http://forum.le-scriptorium.com/index.php?showtopic=541
(just scroll a few posts down till you see a link to a pdf file - it's all in French though, obviously).
If you have any remark or request, feel free to send me a mail at dalvyn/at/gmail.com.
Thanks again for sharing! |
|
|
|
KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 06 Feb 2008 : 00:22:56
|
| Thank you very much for this. I really appreciate it, and that anyone is interested in it as well. |
|
|
|
lycurgus33
Acolyte
13 Posts |
Posted - 06 Mar 2008 : 07:37:06
|
| That's some good work there KnightErrantJR. |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
|
|
Toril's Divided Future (3.5 Campaign Outline)
