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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
 Posted - 13 Jan 2007 : 06:22:01
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Does anyone, after reading the Abjurant Champion prestige class (found in the recent 'Complete Mage' book), still wonders why someone would take the bladesinger PrC?
I mean, how completely blown out of the water is bladesinger compared to this one! I thought duskblade was powerful, but frankly, this one takes the cake...
--> 5 level PrC, with a total increase of +5 BAB
--> d10 hp
--> +1 level of existing arcane spellcasting class EVERY level
--> at level 5, 'Martial Arcanist' class ability grants the following: "from now on, your caster level in a chosen arcane spellcasting class is equal to your BAB, unless it would otherwise be higher; for example, a Ftr7/Wiz1/AbjChamp5 has a BAB of +12, and thus a caster level of 12th"
Who would you fight? a Ftr 13 with BAB +13, or this guy, which has a BAB +12, 3rd-level spells cast like a 12th-level caster, all while swinging a greatsword with two hands with a shield spell active THAT GRANTS HIM +9 AC!!!! (i.e. Abjurant Armor, the 1st-level class ability of this class, lets you add your AbjChamp class level to the AC provided by abjuration spells that grants you an armor bonus or shield bonus to AC... so a +4 AC shield spell becomes a +9 AC shield spell for a guy with all 5 levels of this class...
Good HEAVENS! what is a bladesinger to do now!!! That's it! The Queen of Evermeet will have to announce the second Retreat next month...
The only requirements are BAB +5, combat casting, 1st-level arcane spells, and proficient in one martial weapon... just ONE!
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Conlon
Learned Scribe
Canada
132 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2007 : 14:54:14
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| I haven't seen it, but it sounds a little broken.... |
My hopes are ashes, my dreams are dust. All my intentions mean nothing unless they are followed by action. |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2007 : 15:36:17
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| Of course, if you keep in mind that its only a 5 level PrC, what's to keep a Bladsinger from taking a few levels of it, in between their other classes? |
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Reefy
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
892 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jan 2007 : 21:29:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Conlon
I haven't seen it, but it sounds a little broken....
Concurs... It does seem that the new prestige classes, and possibly the new base classes are more powerful than some of the older ones, at least on paper. That one does take the biscuit though.
As for bladesingers, I have my own version of them, and in my opnion because of the special nature of the bladesinger in elven life, I'm happy for them to be a bit more powerful than other classes - they have greater prerequisites and I would have to think carefully about letting a player play one. |
Life is either daring adventure or nothing. |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 16 Jan 2007 : 00:42:28
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| I have the certitude that the class is broken. Full BAB and spellcasting progression? I've never seen that before... let alone the insane +9 AC shield and mage armor spells... |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2007 : 03:02:08
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Just out of curiosity, what would you all think if they lost 2nd and 4th level of spell progression, meaning they would only gain 3 CL from the full 5 levels?
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Bluenose
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
134 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2007 : 11:53:12
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
Just out of curiosity, what would you all think if they lost 2nd and 4th level of spell progression, meaning they would only gain 3 CL from the full 5 levels?
I don't think it would discourage people from going into it, if they are primarily interested in improving their capabilities in combat. You'd still get the Abjurant Arnour ability, the full BAB, and the Martial Arcanist ability. There's almost no class or race I'd ban in my games if there wasn't some cultural reason to do so - no Wu Jen in a Western culture, thanks - but this would make the cut as it currently exists. Reducing the BAB to the medium level +0/+1/+2/+3/+3 would be better in my view, especially since warrior types have already had to take at least one level in Wizard or Sorceror to get it. |
These, in the day when heaven was falling,
The hour when earth's foundations fled,
Followed their mercenary calling
And took their wages and are dead.
Their shoulders held the sky suspended;
They stood, and earth's foundations stay;
What God abandoned, these defended,
And saved the sum of things for pay. |
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Dreamstalker
Acolyte
USA
47 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jan 2007 : 23:37:46
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I personally don't have a problem with this class. First off, mage armor doesn't receive a boost. It isn't an abjuration. The line mentioning they rely on mage armor and shield for AC is misleading. there is a class called the Force Mage further back in Dragon Magazine that does buff both though.
The class localized by itself is not a problem in my mind. The problem comes when there are mutliple five level prestige classes that provide full BAB and full spellcasting progression. I still think a Bladesinger is going to get more of an AC boost from Bladesong than Abjurant Champion is from their ability. Of course, there can be an Abjuration with an amror typed bonus out there. |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 18 Jan 2007 : 05:14:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Dreamstalker
I personally don't have a problem with this class. First off, mage armor doesn't receive a boost. It isn't an abjuration. The line mentioning they rely on mage armor and shield for AC is misleading. there is a class called the Force Mage further back in Dragon Magazine that does buff both though.
The class localized by itself is not a problem in my mind. The problem comes when there are mutliple five level prestige classes that provide full BAB and full spellcasting progression. I still think a Bladesinger is going to get more of an AC boost from Bladesong than Abjurant Champion is from their ability. Of course, there can be an Abjuration with an amror typed bonus out there.
Dreamstalker is right in that Mage Armor will not work here, although it remains to be seen if the misleading line will be Errated, or if the 'abjuration only' rule will be the one that is revised.
Dreamstalker also brings something to my attention: due to the Martial Arcanist ability, a Ftr/Wiz/AbjChamp/Bladesinger would be extremely dangerous! (i.e. Ftr, AbjChamp AND Bladesinger ALL offer full BAB!!! so with only one level of wizard, a level 20 individual would have caster level 19!!! i.e. 19 minutes Bull Strenght, etc. not the 'spellcasting of a 19th-level, although the spellcasting would also be considerable: 1 from Wizard, 5 from Abj, and 5 more from Bladesinger... 11th-level wizard equivalent, so 6th-level spells??? wow!!!)
Edit: forget Ftr levels... I would go with Swashbuckler, of course! :) |
Edited by - Purple Dragon Knight on 18 Jan 2007 05:15:46 |
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Abjurant Champion vs. Bladesinger
