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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
 Posted - 19 Dec 2006 : 23:00:48
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I took a quick glance thru the SRD, and I didn't see an answer to this... I had a possible idea today, and before I expand on it, I need to know one thing: how do you beat true seeing?
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4686 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2006 : 23:12:38
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*blink* 3.5 nerfed true seeing greatly.
"True seeing does not help the viewer see through mundane disguises, spot creatures who are simply hiding, or notice secret doors hidden by mundane means. In addition, the spell effects cannot be further enhanced with known magic, so one cannot use true seeing through a crystal ball or in conjunction with clairaudience/clairvoyance. "
The spell is virtural useless as written, it does not show alighment, or true nature at all. It appears to penetrate some magical disquises.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2006 : 01:35:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
*blink* 3.5 nerfed true seeing greatly.
"True seeing does not help the viewer see through mundane disguises, spot creatures who are simply hiding, or notice secret doors hidden by mundane means. In addition, the spell effects cannot be further enhanced with known magic, so one cannot use true seeing through a crystal ball or in conjunction with clairaudience/clairvoyance. "
The spell is virtural useless as written, it does not show alighment, or true nature at all. It appears to penetrate some magical disquises.
I can actually dig the restrictions on it... Because otherwise, it's a form of X-ray vision.
Anyway, I'm looking for a way to block true seeing from revealing when someone or something is not in their natural form. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2006 : 01:59:50
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| In 2e the only restriction on blocking it was "It cannot pass through solid objects." 2e also said it was not really x-ray vision. |
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 20 Dec 2006 03:04:28 |
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Kaladorm
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1176 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2006 : 02:34:56
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Would nondetection work? Depends on how you read the description of the spell whether it allows a save vs true seeing or not
Also true seeing has a save (will) in the description. Not quite sure how this is intended though |
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Sanishiver
Senior Scribe
USA
476 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2006 : 07:26:06
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How about some kind of living disguise? Like a symbiote that envelopes a creature such that someone with True Seeing would only see the symbiote and not its host?
Hmm...probably not a great idea, that.
Or how about a mind affecting spell disguise that forces any creature looking upon the target to make a Will save or forget on the spot who/what they saw.
The spell wouldn't necessarily erase the memory, only instantly surpress it so that it becomes far less likely to stored as a memory in the mind.
But even that might not work....
How about an Illusion [Phantasm] that is keyed off of True Seeing, where the spell is like a Contingency that plants a very powerful mental immage in the viewer that is different than what True Seeing is showing them. So True Seeing still works, but this specialized spell warps what True Seeing is showing in the viewers mind.
Something like that might work, but it seems like a very obvious 'directed-at-the-players' sort of foil.
Or your just left with plain old Disguise skill and/or trickery.
Good luck that's a hard one! |
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9/9/2006: Dave Mathews Band was off the hook at the Shoreline Amphitheater.
Never, ever read the game books too literally, or make such assumptions that what is omitted cannot be. Bad DM form, that.
And no matter how compelling a picture string theory paints, if it does not accurately describe our universe, it will be no more relevant than an elaborate game of Dungeons and Dragons. --paragraph 1, chapter 9, The Elegant Universe by Brian Greene |
Edited by - Sanishiver on 20 Dec 2006 07:32:09 |
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Dhomal
Senior Scribe
USA
565 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2006 : 15:49:07
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Hello-
I suppose another solution would be to remove True Seeing in some way. If it is a spell the players cast - knock the caster out sometime to wipe the memorized spells (If that works anymore...) or in some other way try to put them in a situation where their use of True Seeing is limited or hampered. True Seeing probably wont do much to reveal someone's true form when they are in a thick fog bank, for instance...
Dhomal |
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AlacLuin
Learned Scribe
131 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2006 : 19:25:30
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Take a look at the psionic power Cloud Mind.
Basically, psionic invisibility, but it's not an illusion, you are removeing the knowledge of the "invisible" person from the viewer's mind.
So if you can warp the person's mind you may have a way to beet true seeing.
I can't find a psionic power at this time that can do this, but this line of thinking may work.
Alter the vier's mind and not the sence of sight. (Mind-affecting Vs Illusion) |
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Victor_ograygor
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1072 Posts |
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
Posted - 20 Dec 2006 : 22:13:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Anyway, I'm looking for a way to block true seeing from revealing when someone or something is not in their natural form.
My last big FR campaign was quite heavy on shapechangers, and by 3.x rules, I can say that there is no good way* to block True Seeing. The only limitation of this spell is it's duration, note however that the psionic variant has a much longer one.
*One of the most powerful NPC of that campaign [Marune] was using an artefact to hide his true appearance, so I house ruled that True Seeing was only showing that his illusionary appearance was fake, not the real one.
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Edited by - Skeptic on 20 Dec 2006 22:16:08 |
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Sanishiver
Senior Scribe
USA
476 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2006 : 01:57:08
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You know an Epic Spell would also work.
I'm guessing this is right as not even the 8th level spell Superior Invisibility can block True Seeing.
J. Grenemyer |
09/20/2008: Tiger Army at the Catalyst in Santa Cruz. You wouldn’t believe how many females rode it out in the pit. Santa Cruz women are all of them beautiful. Now I know to add tough to that description.
6/27/2008: WALL-E is about the best damn movie Pixar has ever made. It had my heart racing and had me rooting for the good guy.
9/9/2006: Dave Mathews Band was off the hook at the Shoreline Amphitheater.
Never, ever read the game books too literally, or make such assumptions that what is omitted cannot be. Bad DM form, that.
And no matter how compelling a picture string theory paints, if it does not accurately describe our universe, it will be no more relevant than an elaborate game of Dungeons and Dragons. --paragraph 1, chapter 9, The Elegant Universe by Brian Greene |
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dwarvenranger
Senior Scribe
USA
428 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2006 : 02:40:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I took a quick glance thru the SRD, and I didn't see an answer to this... I had a possible idea today, and before I expand on it, I need to know one thing: how do you beat true seeing?
With a large stick to the back of the casters head |
If I waited till I knew what I was doing, I'd never get anything done.
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Kaladorm
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1176 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2006 : 12:12:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Skeptic
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Anyway, I'm looking for a way to block true seeing from revealing when someone or something is not in their natural form.
My last big FR campaign was quite heavy on shapechangers, and by 3.x rules, I can say that there is no good way* to block True Seeing. The only limitation of this spell is it's duration, note however that the psionic variant has a much longer one.
*One of the most powerful NPC of that campaign [Marune] was using an artefact to hide his true appearance, so I house ruled that True Seeing was only showing that his illusionary appearance was fake, not the real one.
This gives me a thought however. I remember some prestige class (though I forget it's name) and the final level granted it the type of 'shapeshifter' or something similar, which meant that it didn't have one 'true' form.
So a shapeshifter without a true form wouldn't be hiding anything by changing shape, and hence there would be nothing to see with true seeing |
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Besshalar
Learned Scribe
Finland
166 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2006 : 12:19:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Kaladorm
quote:
Originally posted by Skeptic
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Anyway, I'm looking for a way to block true seeing from revealing when someone or something is not in their natural form.
My last big FR campaign was quite heavy on shapechangers, and by 3.x rules, I can say that there is no good way* to block True Seeing. The only limitation of this spell is it's duration, note however that the psionic variant has a much longer one.
*One of the most powerful NPC of that campaign [Marune] was using an artefact to hide his true appearance, so I house ruled that True Seeing was only showing that his illusionary appearance was fake, not the real one.
This gives me a thought however. I remember some prestige class (though I forget it's name) and the final level granted it the type of 'shapeshifter' or something similar, which meant that it didn't have one 'true' form.
So a shapeshifter without a true form wouldn't be hiding anything by changing shape, and hence there would be nothing to see with true seeing
Personally I think this just opens the whole can of worms on what is for example natural lycanthropes natural form? Is it a wolf or man or possibly the hybridform ? As for countering trueseeing as far as I can see there is no magical way of countering it. Just assign a lot of points to disguise and buy some makeup |
The large print giveth , and the small print taketh away.
-Tom Waits |
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Victor_ograygor
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1072 Posts |
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Besshalar
Learned Scribe
Finland
166 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2006 : 12:35:28
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Victor I don't think it will. Mindblank only protects against mindaffecting spells while trueseeing doesn't really affect any illusions it just allows one to see through them. It's a passive spell and because it doesn't threaten spells directly they don't even get a save against it .
Edit : And also trueseeing doesn't (atleast to my mind) qualify as scrying since there is no range to it . |
The large print giveth , and the small print taketh away.
-Tom Waits |
Edited by - Besshalar on 21 Dec 2006 12:37:16 |
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Kaladorm
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1176 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2006 : 13:29:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Skeptic
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Anyway, I'm looking for a way to block true seeing from revealing when someone or something is not in their natural form.
My last big FR campaign was quite heavy on shapechangers, and by 3.x rules, I can say that there is no good way* to block True Seeing. The only limitation of this spell is it's duration, note however that the psionic variant has a much longer one.
*One of the most powerful NPC of that campaign [Marune] was using an artefact to hide his true appearance, so I house ruled that True Seeing was only showing that his illusionary appearance was fake, not the real one.
This gives me a thought however. I remember some prestige class (though I forget it's name) and the final level granted it the type of 'shapeshifter' or something similar, which meant that it didn't have one 'true' form.
So a shapeshifter without a true form wouldn't be hiding anything by changing shape, and hence there would be nothing to see with true seeing |
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Victor_ograygor
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1072 Posts |
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2006 : 14:44:02
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Was there not some kind of succubus variant in the Fiendish codex I? Something calles 'illutu' or the like IIRC!
XYOu should check it out!
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"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
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AlacLuin
Learned Scribe
131 Posts |
Posted - 21 Dec 2006 : 16:23:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Victor_ograygor
AAhhh.. I dont think it would work...
True Seeing
....ability to see all things as they actually are
quote:
Cloud Mind
works...
...by erasing all awareness of your presence from its mind.
The viewer with true seeing will see the person (just as anyone else would), but thier mind has the knowledge of what they are seeing removed from thier mind.
In general, the best way to defeat True seeing is disguise.
Even with the shapechanger sub-type you still have a "natural form" |
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Quick rules question: true seeing
