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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
 Posted - 26 Sep 2006 : 06:42:56
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I can't say anything in the ToC immediately jumps out to me... nothing that makes me "want to pick this accessory up" as soon as it is released.
Complete Mage is definitely on my "maybe one day I'll purchase it" pile. It doesn't really contain anything I think I'll require for my games.
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 26 Sep 2006 : 06:53:04
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| The irony is looking at the ToC I was just releived that there were no more core classes in it. I'm a little concerned that it appears to introduce a new classification for magic (Innate?) that I'm not sure is really a good thing. But if its mainly feats for specializing in casting spells this way or that, or new spells, and PrCs that specialize in certain types of spellcasting, it might not be so bad, though probably not an imediate "must have." |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 26 Sep 2006 : 06:54:33
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Hmm 17 pages of Feats and character options and 40 pages of Prestige classes.... I think Ill pass
if complete scoundrel has an "Assasin" class then I might think about picking up the next one |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 26 Sep 2006 : 06:58:34
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I find it a bit strange to see new divine spells in a book called complete mage. :)
I guess I don't connect a book of arcane magic or mage magic with divine magic..... |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 26 Sep 2006 : 06:59:24
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| The PrC didn't bug me too much, and some of them actually sound interesting. Some of the sites that they mention toward the end don't do much for me though. |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 26 Sep 2006 : 07:00:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
I find it a bit strange to see new divine spells in a book called complete mage. :)
I guess I don't connect a book of arcane magic or mage magic with divine magic.....
I noticed that they have a couple of "theurge" classes and "holy" classes, so I'm wondering if there are some more specialized mystic theurge type PrCs in there, and so the divine spells would (possibly) have a link to those. Just my guess. |
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maransreth
Learned Scribe
Australia
157 Posts |
Posted - 26 Sep 2006 : 07:08:56
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| Also some of the spells will apply to both mages and clerics, thus they need to show the break down of spells into the different classes, in case other classes will also find them useful. |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6648 Posts |
Posted - 26 Sep 2006 : 07:09:30
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The fey/fiendish feats caught my attention.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 26 Sep 2006 : 07:18:36
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
I find it a bit strange to see new divine spells in a book called complete mage. :)
I guess I don't connect a book of arcane magic or mage magic with divine magic.....
I noticed that they have a couple of "theurge" classes and "holy" classes, so I'm wondering if there are some more specialized mystic theurge type PrCs in there, and so the divine spells would (possibly) have a link to those. Just my guess.
This is possible, but I don't buy the reasoning of the other post that says that divine spells need to be listed as well, since it's supposed to be a book about arcane magic. :) If it's not about "mages" then, they could have come up with a better name.
Ah well. Strange. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Dargoth
Great Reader
Australia
4607 Posts |
Posted - 26 Sep 2006 : 07:29:10
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| They probably figure that if they dont throw in some stuff for the other classes then only those people running Sorcerer or Wizards will buy it.... |
“I am the King of Rome, and above grammar”
Emperor Sigismund
"Its good to be the King!"
Mel Brooks |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 26 Sep 2006 : 11:18:15
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
The fey/fiendish feats caught my attention.
-- George Krashos
Those do sound intriguing... This will be another eBay purchase, I think. |
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Kalin Agrivar
Senior Scribe
Canada
956 Posts |
Posted - 26 Sep 2006 : 14:24:02
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Complete Arcane, Magic of Incarnum, Tome of Magic, Dragon Magic and now Complete Mage
All I have to ask: Is that enough magical crunch for everyone yet? sheesh 
and that isn't counting the campaign specific magical crunch from the Realms (to a lesser extent) and Eberron (greater extent)
at the very least since Greyhawk is the "core" campaign world they could incorporate their crunch books into Greyhawk for the Grayhawk fans
( props go out for our brother/sister old-school Greyhawk fans!  ) |
Kalin Xorell El'Agrivar
- High Mage of the Arcane Assembly
- Lore Keeper of the Vault of Ancestors
- 3rd Son of the Lord of the Stand |
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Beirnadri Magranth
Senior Scribe
USA
720 Posts |
Posted - 26 Sep 2006 : 16:27:35
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quote:
Originally posted by maransreth
Also some of the spells will apply to both mages and clerics, thus they need to show the break down of spells into the different classes, in case other classes will also find them useful.
exactly what i was gunna say!
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"You came here to be a martyr in a great big bang of glory... instead you will die with a whimper."
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 26 Sep 2006 : 17:09:29
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While I agree the proliferation of PrCs really was starting to get insane for a while, I have to say that I don't really mind new spells, magic items, and feats that modify spells, and I don't mind PrCs that might emphasize specialization or skill at a specific "school" of magic, or tradition of it.
If there is one thing we have seen in the Realms its that there are a lot of wizards that like to customize their spells, and the more spells we have, especially if they are well balanced and properly structured (yeah, I'm thinking about Power Word Pain here as a bad example), the more interesting and unique individual arcane casters can seem.
I think its kind of cool that I can have the PCs run into Shadovar and they have one spell list, and they might run into a Deep Imaskari, and they have another spell list, and they don't have the same spells that a Cormyrean War Wizard has, or a guild wizard from the Watchful Order in Waterdeep, or the Arcane Brotherhood in Luskan.
Just my take, and indeed, none of this makes Complete Mage a "must have" but it definately makes it a "potentially useful." |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11717 Posts |
Posted - 26 Sep 2006 : 22:30:42
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| sadly, I'm not sure how much I'm interested in these... even with wizardry. I bought tome and blood, then complete arcane to get it to 3.5.... I'll probably grab this one, but it better be darn good for me to want to get these other complete books that they have following. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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MerrikCale
Senior Scribe
USA
947 Posts |
Posted - 27 Sep 2006 : 00:39:18
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| is there any new information on warlocks? |
When hinges creak in doorless chambers and strange and frightening sounds echo through the halls, whenever candlelights flicker where the air is deathly still, that is the time when ghosts are present, practicing their terror with ghoulish delight. |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 27 Sep 2006 : 00:44:32
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| Page 123, New Warlock Invocations . . . |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 27 Sep 2006 : 00:46:23
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Oh, and I'm not sure if any of the PrC would be useful for warlocks, nor if any of the feats are useful or geared toward Warlocks.
Also, Dragon Magic has a few more Invocations in it too. Wasn't sure if you had seen that or not. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 27 Sep 2006 : 01:15:25
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quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje
I find it a bit strange to see new divine spells in a book called complete mage. :)
I guess I don't connect a book of arcane magic or mage magic with divine magic.....
I noticed that they have a couple of "theurge" classes and "holy" classes, so I'm wondering if there are some more specialized mystic theurge type PrCs in there, and so the divine spells would (possibly) have a link to those. Just my guess.
This is possible, but I don't buy the reasoning of the other post that says that divine spells need to be listed as well, since it's supposed to be a book about arcane magic. :) If it's not about "mages" then, they could have come up with a better name.
Ah well. Strange.
Actually, I think the title is somewhat appropriate... especially given the focus on arcane, as well as divine, and other types of magic within the tome. The inclusion of details which focus on "theurge" classes and "holy" classes like KEJR noted could further support the notion that Complete Mage is actually a supplement geared towards ALL types of mages and uses for mages/wizards in an campaign -- and most types of magic.
Whereas, Complete Arcane focused strictly on the arcane elements of spellcasting, with Complete Divine being dedicated to just divine spellcasting resources. Given some of the content in Complete Mage, I get the feeling WotC are trying to present a "joint-version" which includes both sides of magic use -- even merging them at times.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Edited by - The Sage on 27 Sep 2006 01:16:22 |
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Sanishiver
Senior Scribe
USA
476 Posts |
Posted - 27 Sep 2006 : 02:13:44
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quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
I think its kind of cool that I can have the PCs run into Shadovar and they have one spell list, and they might run into a Deep Imaskari, and they have another spell list, and they don't have the same spells that a Cormyrean War Wizard has, or a guild wizard from the Watchful Order in Waterdeep, or the Arcane Brotherhood in Luskan.
Hallelujah! Couldn’t have said it any better myself (and I’ve been saying it for years).
As for this book’s TOC, the magical locations look the most interesting. Bigby’s Tomb and Boccob’s reading room ought to be a fun read.
J. Grenemyer
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09/20/2008: Tiger Army at the Catalyst in Santa Cruz. You wouldn’t believe how many females rode it out in the pit. Santa Cruz women are all of them beautiful. Now I know to add tough to that description.
6/27/2008: WALL-E is about the best damn movie Pixar has ever made. It had my heart racing and had me rooting for the good guy.
9/9/2006: Dave Mathews Band was off the hook at the Shoreline Amphitheater.
Never, ever read the game books too literally, or make such assumptions that what is omitted cannot be. Bad DM form, that.
And no matter how compelling a picture string theory paints, if it does not accurately describe our universe, it will be no more relevant than an elaborate game of Dungeons and Dragons. --paragraph 1, chapter 9, The Elegant Universe by Brian Greene |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6648 Posts |
Posted - 27 Sep 2006 : 03:28:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Sanishiver
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
I think its kind of cool that I can have the PCs run into Shadovar and they have one spell list, and they might run into a Deep Imaskari, and they have another spell list, and they don't have the same spells that a Cormyrean War Wizard has, or a guild wizard from the Watchful Order in Waterdeep, or the Arcane Brotherhood in Luskan.
Hallelujah! Couldn’t have said it any better myself (and I’ve been saying it for years).
As for this book’s TOC, the magical locations look the most interesting. Bigby’s Tomb and Boccob’s reading room ought to be a fun read.
J. Grenemyer
I'm with both of you here. If I actually gamed and DM-ed in the Realms, I'm pretty sure that I would create "Organisation/Regional" spell lists which would give some sort of extra flavour to the Realms, at least geographically. Hence, instead of every wizard on Faerûn casting 'flaming sphere', we might say that this is a common spell in the East (ala Thay), uncommon in the Heartlands and actually rare in the North and Sword Coast. I'd monitor my PC casters' spell lists accordingly while giving the Thayan wizard a different spell profile to the Cowled Wizard of Amn.
-- George Krashos
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"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 27 Sep 2006 : 05:53:19
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I like the idea of specialized spell-lists and such.
I just really don't think we need a PrC for every such spell-list, where a few appropriate Feats could more than suffice.
That being said... I love arcane magic, and I'm entirely apathetic about this book. I guess I've just entirely outgrown any desire for new/altered mechanics at this point. |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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Chosen of Moradin
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1120 Posts |
Posted - 27 Sep 2006 : 14:05:50
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quote:
Originally posted by kalin agrivar
Complete Arcane, Magic of Incarnum, Tome of Magic, Dragon Magic and now Complete Mage
All I have to ask: Is that enough magical crunch for everyone yet? sheesh
No, if we take by example the 2nd edition magical crunch. 
Jokes apart, I agree with KnightErrantJR, Sanishiver, Krashos and the others: the Realms are a really great place, and having too many options of spells, itens and feats only add to me, as an invaluable resource of the diferent magical traditions of Faerûn.  |
Dwarf, DM, husband, and proud of this! :P
twitter: @yuripeixoto
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Kalin Agrivar
Senior Scribe
Canada
956 Posts |
Posted - 27 Sep 2006 : 15:24:47
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Warning, rant ahead  
quote:
Originally posted by Chosen of Moradin
No, if we take by example the 2nd edition magical crunch.
Jokes apart, I agree with KnightErrantJR, Sanishiver, Krashos and the others: the Realms are a really great place, and having too many options of spells, itens and feats only add to me, as an invaluable resource of the diferent magical traditions of Faerûn.
I'd agree 2E had a lot of spells and magical items...even the kits (in total there were not as many kits in all of 2E available than there are PrCs at the moment) but it doesn't hold water to 3E crunch...3E by now has reprinted almost all of the 2E crunch and has a mountain more of it’s own....3E has just as many spells and magical items as 2E but add the number of variations of magic, the PrCs, the feats, the optional rules (how many did 2E have? two I can think of...slots and points) and now even new base classes which are realy expanded PrCs
quote:
Originally posted by KnightErrantJR
While I agree the proliferation of PrCs really was starting to get insane for a while, I have to say that I don't really mind new spells, magic items, and feats that modify spells, and I don't mind PrCs that might emphasize specialization or skill at a specific "school" of magic, or tradition of it.
If there is one thing we have seen in the Realms its that there are a lot of wizards that like to customize their spells, and the more spells we have, especially if they are well balanced and properly structured (yeah, I'm thinking about Power Word Pain here as a bad example), the more interesting and unique individual arcane casters can seem.
I think its kind of cool that I can have the PCs run into Shadovar and they have one spell list, and they might run into a Deep Imaskari, and they have another spell list, and they don't have the same spells that a Cormyrean War Wizard has, or a guild wizard from the Watchful Order in Waterdeep, or the Arcane Brotherhood in Luskan.
Just my take, and indeed, none of this makes Complete Mage a "must have" but it definately makes it a "potentially useful."
How many magical paths/traditions do the Realms need? I agree that research into magic would branch off into different paths and it enriches the flavor of the Realms. I also agree in a “spell list” available for “organized” organizations, like the War Wizards of Cormyr or the Arcane Brotherhood. And I like the “strange hermit in the mountains” or the “Underdark lair of the ancient lich-lord” hooks to introduce exotic magics to experienced wizards.
But at what point do you stop? A spell list for every region (regions outlined by the regional feats) and then subdivide by every race? The spelllist for the Dales hedgewizard? The list for the Durpar merchant? And will a Players Guide to Faerun II be needed to be produced to list all these spell regions?
Additionally (and what irks me more) is that many of these “new magical arts” are not variations of magic (like specializing in schools, elements, effects, etc.) but actual, separate sources of magic (i.e. incarnum, shadow magic, truenames, etc.). For Realms canon where do these “alien” magics come from? Creator Races? The Outer Planes?
I like new material but I feel these books are about WotC selling more books than giving players new options (especially when “new options” are usually variations of older ideas). And of course future Realms products will make reference to these crunch books, telling you you don’t really need them but
Eberron is the world to throw everything and the kitchen sink into, not the Realms. Read the Players Guide to Eberron and almost every sidebar tells you how to incorporate almost every offered D&D optional material into Eberron...The Realms is an open world too but it also has it’s own background and history...new magical traditions are cool, but not when they all suddenly appear at once in in-game timeline or are ret-conned for the sake of “core optional material”
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Actually, I think the title is somewhat appropriate... especially given the focus on arcane, as well as divine, and other types of magic within the tome. The inclusion of details which focus on "theurge" classes and "holy" classes like KEJR noted could further support the notion that Complete Mage is actually a supplement geared towards ALL types of mages and uses for mages/wizards in an campaign -- and most types of magic.
Whereas, Complete Arcane focused strictly on the arcane elements of spellcasting, with Complete Divine being dedicated to just divine spellcasting resources. Given some of the content in Complete Mage, I get the feeling WotC are trying to present a "joint-version" which includes both sides of magic use -- even merging them at times.
I agree with you analysis of the book...but I have become too jaded with the “uber crunch” books that have been produced in the last two(ish) years...The next book we will probably see is the “Complete Cleric” book as a "joint-version" which includes both sides of magic use, only this time emphasis on divine magic flavored with arcane magic...then it will be the “Complete Magic/Martial” book, the “Complete Magics/Psionics” book, the “Complete Psionics/Magics” book, etc. My feeling is WotC is running out of original ideas and is starting to beat existing material with a big stick...
I know this was a rant (and am sorry for it) but I’m not a 2E fanboy (I like the 3E mechanics much more) nor a 3E hater, I like new optional material...but I also “put my money where my mouth is” and I haven’t bought the Magic of Incarnum, Tome of Magic, Dragon Magic, Tome of Battle or Weapons of Legacy as I can’t keep up with all of the variations on old themes, I barely use half of the material produced in most of the books these days (i.e. PH II and DM II) and I need to pick and choose what I buy just to stay in budget.
And as a side note, half of the Eberron products are mostly optional rules, materials and magical traditions...so expect in a year or two a “reprinting” of the Eberron material but spun in a “core rules/no Eberron flavour” way so they can churn out yet another book
One question I have is why do we get all this “new material” when there is still a lot of core 3.0 material that hasn’t been reprinted in 3.5 (like the Epic Handbook and Planar Handbook) and is actually out of print (the Deities and Demigods and the Manual of the Planes)
All I want is quality over quantity and some really orginal, well thought out ideas (not truename magic and shadow magic from 2E, the "new" martial arts/combat styles/techniques or beating-to-death anything draconic)...and WotC stop trying to snowball me with how great these books are, how much I’ll need them and how much they will enhance the game
OK, rant over, sorry...
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Kalin Xorell El'Agrivar
- High Mage of the Arcane Assembly
- Lore Keeper of the Vault of Ancestors
- 3rd Son of the Lord of the Stand |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11717 Posts |
Posted - 27 Sep 2006 : 22:47:26
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>>I'm with both of you here. If I actually gamed and DM-ed in the Realms, I'm pretty sure >>that I would create "Organisation/Regional" spell lists which would give some sort of extra >>flavour to the Realms, at least geographically. Hence, instead of every wizard on Faerûn >>casting 'flaming sphere', we might say that this is a common spell in the East (ala Thay), >>uncommon in the Heartlands and actually rare in the North and Sword Coast. I'd monitor my >>PC casters' spell lists accordingly while giving the Thayan wizard a different spell >>profile to the Cowled Wizard of Amn.
>>-- George Krashos
I went through the stint where players were scarce. When they were scarce, I developed a lot of material. With me DM'ing now, and having a family, and a full time job... I find myself to the point where this is the kind of stuff that as a DM I HAVE to slough off to the side. Its either limit the players entirely to certain books and only those books, or open the floodgates and roll with the punches. I quite sincerely don't have time to mull these kinds of things over.
Secondarily, with the realms the way they are, the spell lists you make today become tomorrow's garbage. This is because if its a spell that CAN be learned by a another wizard, he'll sure as hell kill someone from the rival group and capture their spellbook. Now, that spellbook and all its secrets are available to the person from group X. So, unless every group keeps their own "code" like what Southern Magic was supposed to be, spells are gonna fly between the groups. After all, once I have the spells from group X in my spellbook, the spellbook I captured is a valuable asset that can be traded to a compatriot with a spellbook from group Y. You may say they all want to be secretive, but that's not what I see with players. They'll sell a captured spellbook in a heartbeat, even more gladly they'll trade it for another. Given that Mystra would encourage such activity, I don't see Faerun as a bunch of wizards hoarding knowledge. Rather, I see it as a place where there are so many spells running rampant that the average wizard doesn't have the time to learn the spells fast enough.
>>All I want is quality over quantity and some really orginal, well thought out ideas (not >>truename magic and shadow magic from 2E, the "new" martial arts/combat styles/techniques or >>beating-to-death anything draconic)...and WotC stop trying to snowball me with how great >>these books are, how much I’ll need them and how much they will enhance the game
Kalin, I just felt you shouldn't feel alone here. I picked up Magic of Incarnum. The general idea behind it bears merit, but the abilities themselves have a little bit of cheesy feel to it. In the end, if someone in my campaign wants to run it, I'll allow it for a trial run. I picked up Tome of Magic. It was an UTTER waste of my money. Shadow Magic and Truename Magic both suck (truename has some serious balance issues), and the ability concept of pact magic bears merit, but the abilities it gives need some SERIOUS balance work such that I'd never let someone have it. I picked up the new Tome of Battle, and while I have a little hope for it, I know there's some definite balance issues just flipping through it. Its like the stuff is written so fast, its no longer really being playtested. I'm not even considering dragon magic for this reason. I'm only considering complete mage because the other complete books were MOSTLY well done revisions of the 3.0 works, and I hope that it'll bring out some new concepts that are balanced. If it doesn't, I will not buy any of the others, and this may be the point where I just start focusing on realms novels and material specifically again. At least then I can count on Eric Boyd and Steven Schend to give well developed plots.
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2006 : 00:55:18
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Its funny, but I have to disagree with you on Tome of Magic. I loved that book, and felt that it really took care to make the magic systems feel like they were traditions and not neat game gimmicks, which was the feeling I got with Magic of Incarnum (I DO agree with you there).
For the record, Shadow Magic (not shadow weave magic), and Truenaming have both been aluded to long before Tome of Magic in the Forgotten Realms, although I can respect anyone that doesn't like how they were presented. |
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Sanishiver
Senior Scribe
USA
476 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2006 : 06:21:18
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I picked up Tome of Magic because it not only looked fricking cool (the artwork in the Shadow Magic section rocked!), but it gave me enough rules, flavor and mechanics to truly spice up Shade and the Shadovar in my campaign.
The thing with 3E that I like is that it does a lot to get the mechanics to match the flavor of a setting or theme, and to allow DMs to do the same on their own. So when designers get it right, DMs with definite ideas of flavor can reliably pick up sourcebooks that provide mechanics to match the flavor a DM is after.
I think it's worth noting that what is coming out from WotC that doesn't have a Realms Logo on it is optional. You'll see references here and there in these non-Realms sourcebooks to help DMs incorporate new material into their Realms games if they want, but we are in fact not seeing the shoehorning/”it's in a WotC book so now it's in the Realms” approach that littered the 2E Realms with boatloads of crap (that's Eberron's place now).
This is why I don't see much merit in the "this is all too much" complaint.
quote:
Originally posted by kalin agrivar
For Realms canon where do these “alien” magics come from? Creator Races? The Outer Planes?
I think it’s just as reasonable to treat these new kinds of magic the same way psionics is treated: These magics draw on the Weave (or for Shadow Magic the Shadow Weave).
So regardless of the method, the conduit is the same.
J. Grenemyer |
09/20/2008: Tiger Army at the Catalyst in Santa Cruz. You wouldn’t believe how many females rode it out in the pit. Santa Cruz women are all of them beautiful. Now I know to add tough to that description.
6/27/2008: WALL-E is about the best damn movie Pixar has ever made. It had my heart racing and had me rooting for the good guy.
9/9/2006: Dave Mathews Band was off the hook at the Shoreline Amphitheater.
Never, ever read the game books too literally, or make such assumptions that what is omitted cannot be. Bad DM form, that.
And no matter how compelling a picture string theory paints, if it does not accurately describe our universe, it will be no more relevant than an elaborate game of Dungeons and Dragons. --paragraph 1, chapter 9, The Elegant Universe by Brian Greene |
Edited by - Sanishiver on 28 Sep 2006 06:25:50 |
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Archwizard
Learned Scribe
USA
266 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2006 : 06:40:25
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Strangely, I feel more good vibes from Complete Mage than I felt for Complete Arcane, a supplement I found rather bland. I definitely want to at least flip through Complete Mage. We'll see how it turns out I guess.
Hopefully they give the Wu Jen some material. |
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GothicDan
Master of Realmslore
USA
1103 Posts |
Posted - 28 Sep 2006 : 07:04:06
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I think what would make these books a lot more interesting is more of a focus on tradition, culture, and lore of the organizations (organization before PrC, if you ask me; it's hard to have the latter without at one point having the former), and on roleplaying them in the various worlds. I'd also like to see more material on customizing things a little more yourself, and advice on when a PrC really is or isn't necessary. Right now, WotC's mechanics seem way too "middle of the road" to me. Everything their putting out is a combination of new and old, or of X class and Y class smashed together, or Z class with tweaks here and there...
As has been pointed out, at this point, it really feels like they are totally lacking for new material.
They could just as easily strip all of these PrCs down into variable Feats available to the core Wizard/Sorcerer, and allow DMs to adjudicate things in their own campaigns and settings. |
Planescape Fanatic
"Fiends and Undead are the peanut butter and jelly of evil." - Me
"That attitude should be stomped on, whenever and wherever it's encountered, because it makes people holding such views bad citizens, not just bad roleplayers (considering D&D was structured as a 'forced cooperation' game, and although successive editions are pointing it more and more towards a me-first, min-max game, the drift away from 'we all need each other to succeed' will at some point make it 'no longer' D&D)." - ED GREENWOOD |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 29 Sep 2006 : 20:29:32
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quote:
Originally posted by kalin agrivar
Complete Arcane, Magic of Incarnum, Tome of Magic, Dragon Magic and now Complete Mage
All I have to ask: Is that enough magical crunch for everyone yet? sheesh
and that isn't counting the campaign specific magical crunch from the Realms (to a lesser extent) and Eberron (greater extent)
You forgot the Spell Compendium!
But yeah, I agree with you. I got Complete Arcane and Spell Compendium, and I stopped there. Since I buy all the FR books anyways, that's enough D&D Core material for me.
If you can't create a cool mage with Complete Arcane, Spell Compendium and all the FR books (each of which contain spells/feats useable by mages), I pity you!  |
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Complete Mage
