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kaeso
Acolyte
USA
36 Posts |
 Posted - 09 Aug 2006 : 18:56:06
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So, who exactly is Mystra? I know she is currently the ascended mortal Midnight, but... is she Mystra only in name and abilities? Does Shar think of her as her sister? When the original Mystral sacrificed herself to save the Weave, did the mortal who took her place ascend and Mystra became a completely new person, or did they fuse to become one person? Is Mystra really Mystra?
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Great literature is escapist, but it changes you, and you come back to your world with new eyes. D&D is the first game that's ever done that for me.
-Sumana Harihareswara |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2006 : 19:15:51
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| Ed has commented on this in the 2006 replies, see the link in my sig and use the table of contents to do a search for it or do a search for mystra in the word doc or the pdf/html's. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
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Faramicos
Senior Scribe
Denmark
468 Posts |
Posted - 09 Aug 2006 : 19:23:23
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As i have understood the lore of the realms, the original Mystra only exists in the form of the escence that gave Midnight her spheres of power. If you read the avatar books and the following books about Cyric you will see that Mystra (Midnight) acts out of her own will and in a different way than the old Mystra. Also, the reason to why Midnight took the name "Mystra" was to make the transition easy for her followers. That is directly written in the novels... Midnight have for an example kept her love for Kelemvor as he ascended to the position of god of the dead. A love the original Mystra didnt have as she didnt have such an intimate realtionship to Kelemvor as Midnight had.
I dont think Shar considers Midnight/Mystra as her sister due to the fact that the Mystra that was born into the sisterly bond is dead...
All the above was even a little confusing to me... Hope you can understand it Kaeso and that i have been able to shine some light upon your question. |
"When dragons make war, worlds can only tremble in the shadow of angry wings" |
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kaeso
Acolyte
USA
36 Posts |
Posted - 10 Aug 2006 : 04:13:14
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from Ed's 2006 replies:
"March 10, 2006: Hi, all. Jamallo Kreen asked several questions back on January 15th, and Ed has replied to one of them, to whit: “I also have a question about Mystra/Midnight's memories: does Mystra-sub-2 remember the lives of Mystryl and Mystra-sub-1 as if they had occured to Her? Does She have a personal recollection of what it felt like to have Karsus attempt to usurp Her powers?”
Ed replies:
The latest Mystra (the former Midnight) is awash in a sea of memories, so bewildered most of the time that she’s nigh-insane or perhaps helplessly overwhelmed (think of being blindfolded and put in an unfamiliar room with ALL of your own clothes [yes, the socks and underwear and all the childhood things that don’t fit that you may be keeping for sentimental reasons] poured in loose around you, on top of all the clothes of two other persons who had much, much larger wardrobes than you did... and then be expected to blindly sort out of all those heaped clothes half a dozen particular garments and put them on... too easy? Well, new clothes keep getting added [both by you and every one of the Chosen whose mind you touch], and the old ones, of course, move around constantly, as all the clothes change subtly). The first Mystra’s memories often scare Midnight/Mystra 2, because they come with emotional baggage that she sees as changing HER upon contact (for instance, pull up a “Mystra 1” memory of Elminster, and with it comes the intense love and lust of Mystra 1, welling up inside Mystra 2 and changing how she regards Elminster). However, the memories of Mystryl feel so alien and different that Mystra 2 shuns them instinctively; when they happen to be memories charged with great emotion or tinged with great flows of power, they literally overwhelm her and can’t be “viewed” directly. So, she DOES “have a personal recollection of what it felt like to have Karsus attempt to usurp Her powers,” but she’s never experienced it, and probably never will.
All of this is why she’s so uncertain of herself (see the mountaintop scene I put into ELIMINSTER’S DAUGHTER) and so withdrawn (as compared to Mystra 1).
So saith Ed, who plays Mystra in a manner that evokes real awe around our gaming table.
love to all,
THO"
I think I understand now. The only reason I think I understand is becuase I am quite a dork- I've seen many episodes of Star Trek: Deep Space Nine, and in it there is/was a character named Jedzea (sp?) and she had a 'symbiote' inside her. The symbiotes are placed inside a person and they act as a second brain that records and recalls memories. Well, Jedzea's symbiote has memories from around 9 other lives, and so she is a single person, and yet she is all those other people too. This is how Mystra works.
Oh, and I'm sure there's someone on the boards who is going to pop up and ridicule me for not getting all the details straight- I'm sorry, I haven't seen all the episodes yet. Please have mercy 
oh, and thanks for the links Kuje! |
Great literature is escapist, but it changes you, and you come back to your world with new eyes. D&D is the first game that's ever done that for me.
-Sumana Harihareswara |
Edited by - kaeso on 11 Aug 2006 18:47:25 |
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kaeso
Acolyte
USA
36 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2006 : 03:26:47
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| So does she also have the memories of Caitlin, her avatar? And if she's so confused all the time, is she at any risk of being killed by any of the other gods? |
Great literature is escapist, but it changes you, and you come back to your world with new eyes. D&D is the first game that's ever done that for me.
-Sumana Harihareswara |
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Mazrim_Taim
Learned Scribe
341 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2006 : 06:10:11
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| Just the thought of a mortal suddenly become one of the most powerful deities in the Realms is confusing. I can only imagine what she is going through. I know I'd be pretty darned confused, especially with all those memories from the previous ones. |
And if the PCs DO win their ways through all the liches to Larloch, “he” will almost certainly be just another lich (loaded with explosive spells) set up as a decoy, with dozens of hidden liches waiting to pounce on any surviving PCs who ‘celebrate’ after they take Larloch down. As the REAL Larloch watches (magical scrying) from afar. Myself, as DM, I’d be wondering: “Such a glorious game, so many opportunities laid out before your PCs to devote your time to, and THIS fixation is the best you can come up with? Are you SURE you’re adventurers?” -Ed Greenwood
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2006 : 21:11:30
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quote:
Originally posted by kaeso
So does she also have the memories of Caitlin, her avatar?
I'd say that she does, but that these memories, being from a mortal, don't carry the weight of the deific memories -- the mind and senses possessed by Caitlin were less than the mind and senses of a deity.
quote:
Originally posted by kaeso
And if she's so confused all the time, is she at any risk of being killed by any of the other gods?
I'd say not. You could put a drunk driver in a tank, and it won't perform as well as it otherwise would -- but it's still a tank. Ditto for Mystra. She's still the biggest kid on the block, regardless of her mental state. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Faramicos
Senior Scribe
Denmark
468 Posts |
Posted - 11 Aug 2006 : 21:41:37
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| I would be stressed out if i was put drunk into a tank and at the same time had a million followers who expected me to wipe out the enemy (answer prayers and deal with other stuff). But sure, if some burgler (Mask) tried to pick my tank, i would probably be able to blow him to pieces... |
"When dragons make war, worlds can only tremble in the shadow of angry wings" |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 12 Aug 2006 : 01:34:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I'd say not. You could put a drunk driver in a tank, and it won't perform as well as it otherwise would -- but it's still a tank. Ditto for Mystra. She's still the biggest kid on the block, regardless of her mental state.
Indeed.
And Ed's discussed this somewhat in his replies about Mystra's power and position in the Faerun pantheon. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11696 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2006 : 14:18:05
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I very much like this characterization of Mystra/Midnight. To me it fits very much why she has Azuth and the chosen. Azuth is still basically his same person, able to provide a shoulder that Mystra can lean on. We also see Savras gaining more power of late it seems, possibly because she begins to depend on "knowledge experts" to help guide the weave in a safe manner (and who better than a diviner to work as a guide).
Then we see Velsharoon the Vaunted arising to seize the reins of necromancy, but he would seem to be undergoing the same psychotic episodes as Mystra, for it seems he jumps from ally to ally. This could be genius... it could be madness... or it could be both. However, it could suggest that he is overwhelmed with the memories of Mellifleur, whom he has taken the alias of and thus has somehow defeated (I got my own theories here which I've posted before).
It makes me wish that the Nimbrali would find a way to resurrect Leira (that is if Cyric ever actually defeated her and she didn't simply pull off one of the most grand illusions of all time). She could well preside over the schools of both illusion and enchantment (if one were to look at magic according to traditionalist schools).
Finally, Talos trying to make his move as Malyk is one that would need to be stopped (and has been for the most part). While I can see a need for some lord of destruction, I would not want to see any destructive deity "presiding" over say the schools of evocation, conjuration, and transmutation. These should fall under the sanctum of a "spell dueler"... which is exactly what Azuth stands for. In fact, Azuth may need to keep an eye on Velsharoon as the next grasp I see him making would be for conjuration magics (using undead and summoning netherworld beings would seem to go hand-in-hand). |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Laeknir
Seeker
68 Posts |
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Ayunken-vanzan
Senior Scribe
Germany
657 Posts |
Posted - 05 Nov 2008 : 06:20:29
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| This nonsense is the last straw. In no way can 4e FR be considered a real, legitimate Forgotten Realms edition. I dearly hope WotC will crash with this edition due to the atrocities they committed. |
"What mattered our lives now? When our world had been torn from us? Folk wept, or drank, or stood staring out over the land, wondering what new horror each dawn would bring."
Elender Stormfall of Suzail
"Anyone can kill deities, cause plagues, or destroy organizations. It takes real skill to make them live on."
Varl
FR/D&D-Links • 2ed Downloads |
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khorne
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1073 Posts |
Posted - 05 Nov 2008 : 15:02:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I'd say not. You could put a drunk driver in a tank, and it won't perform as well as it otherwise would -- but it's still a tank. Ditto for Mystra. She's still the biggest kid on the block, regardless of her mental state.
Judging from the latest spoilers on her death, it seems the tank was made of paper... |
If I were a ranger, I would pick NDA for my favorite enemy |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 05 Nov 2008 : 18:50:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayunken-vanzan
This nonsense is the last straw.
My "last straw" moment happened a long time ago--can't even remember when.
Oh well... |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3563 Posts |
Posted - 05 Nov 2008 : 21:36:14
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Unreal that "they" believe they can shovel us such tripe and we will continue to consume it?
I will not. |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 05 Nov 2008 : 22:04:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Laeknir
This just in: the 4E explanation for Mystra's death:
http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=1109452
Only click on it if you like spoilers. And it's a doosie!
that is unimaginative.
will refer to it as non canon and it is along with the death of eilistraee condemned |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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elglanto
Acolyte
24 Posts |
Posted - 04 Sep 2011 : 17:13:13
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Hello there. I'm actually going to play a cleric of Mystra in a campain.
This character became cleric before the time of trouble and after 1358, he is still following the "old" LN Mystra not the CB "new" one. Thus i'm seaching informations about Mystra and her workshiper before the time of trouble. Any book about it? |
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 04 Sep 2011 : 19:47:37
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older editions of the campiagn setting.
ask Ed Greenwood scroll might have some or you can ask |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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elglanto
Acolyte
24 Posts |
Posted - 04 Sep 2011 : 20:44:17
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quote:
Originally posted by sfdragon
ask Ed Greenwood scroll might have some or you can ask
Sorry but i didn't get it. |
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Thelonius
Senior Scribe
Spain
730 Posts |
Posted - 04 Sep 2011 : 20:50:46
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quote:
Originally posted by elglanto
quote:
Originally posted by sfdragon
ask Ed Greenwood scroll might have some or you can ask
Sorry but i didn't get it.
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=14621
He refers to this scroll, we have the privilege of having some of theRealms authors between this walls.
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"If you are to truly understand, then you will need the contrast, not adherence to a single ideal." - Kreia
"I THINK I JUST HAD ANOTHER NEAR-RINCEWIND EXPERIENCE"- Discworld's Death frustrated after Rincewind scapes his grasp... again.
"I am death, come for thee" - Nimbul, from Baldur's Gate I just before being badly spanked
Sapientia sola libertas est |
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Kuje
Great Reader
USA
7915 Posts |
Posted - 04 Sep 2011 : 21:33:08
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| Yea, pretty much the old grey box campaign setting and FR Adventures has all you're going to find about the old Mystra. Oh well, and the Time of Troubles novels/modules. But also some of the early FR novels written by Ed. |
For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium |
Edited by - Kuje on 04 Sep 2011 21:33:40 |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 05 Sep 2011 : 03:41:42
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elglanto, have a look at Ed's discussion of Mystra's alignment from 18 June 2011, on page 41 of his 2011 thread. As I see it, D&D alignment is a much less meaningful label for Mystra (or for instance Tempus) than for gods like Tymora or Bane whose concerns are more in line with human ethics. The part of post-Avatar Mystra that is/was Midnight is what I've called a pilot intelligence, a directing humanlike mind amid a larger divine essence interpenetrated with and partly equivalent to the Weave.
So only part of Mystra is replaced, the 'two' goddesses aren't nearly as different as has sometimes been suggested, there's no abrupt moral shift as implied by the D&D alignment change, the new Mystra doesn't become an activist force for conventionally understood good, and I expect changes in her church have more to do with politics, power balances and the usual local variance than with the goddess herself. |
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Mystra- birth, death, ascension, death, ascension
