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Brother Ezra
Learned Scribe
USA
268 Posts |
 Posted - 11 Jul 2004 : 18:12:45
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The druid in our group has been created as impressionable and naive, and over the course of several games has become very friendly with the rogue, who is a very charismatic individual, and specializes in pursuasion skills (intimidate, diplomacy, bluff, etc). They're at the point now where the two of them are beginning to plan schemes together (not against the party, but independent of them, since the balance of the group is of good alignment).
The present scheme involves forgery and impersonation. Specifically the plan calls for the druid to impersonate a priestess of Tyr to diminish the chances of a forged document being detected.
The druid is chaotic neutral, and has Silvanus as a patron deity. Do any of you know if her impersonation would be a violation of her druidic vows? Could she potentially lose her spellcasting abilities for such an action? I don't see any alignment problems with the scenario, but am unsure about the religious implications.
Thanks for the help, as always.
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"Suffering is the touchstone of all spiritual growth."
-St. Sollars the Twice-Martyred |
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Sarta
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2004 : 01:45:02
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No game mechanic ramifications, it is well within her alignment and her deities alignment for her to do so. However, she runs the danger of potentially upsetting the church of Tyr should it be found out. They tend to have a long memory and don't like leaving bad deeds unpunished. Should another druid or priest of Silvanus find out, she may also have a lot of explaining too. Sounds like she's becoming a bit too "urbanized".
Sarta |
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Brother Ezra
Learned Scribe
USA
268 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2004 : 03:11:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Sarta
Sounds like she's becoming a bit too "urbanized".
Sarta
In truth, I wouldn't be surprised if she started taking some levels in rogue. I don't know if the druid class will stick around or not. |
"Suffering is the touchstone of all spiritual growth."
-St. Sollars the Twice-Martyred |
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Lashan
Learned Scribe
USA
235 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2004 : 12:06:35
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If you are looking for a way to prevent them, you could use the Silvanus shtick. Perhaps he is annoyed that she is not spending her energy trying to save the forest? Or perhaps he waits to see what he/she does with the profit?
Otherwise, I say let the players have their fun. |
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Sarta
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2004 : 15:11:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Brother Ezra
In truth, I wouldn't be surprised if she started taking some levels in rogue. I don't know if the druid class will stick around or not.
Where would it go?
The way I look at it, Silvanus is an old god. He's seen a lot and isn't worried about foolishness that doesn't pertain to his spheres of influence. Look at the fae, there are plenty that are just as conniving as these two could hope to be. As long as their actions don't threaten the greater well-being of the forest and forest creatures, its not something Silvanus himself would worry about.
However, Silvanus' church is run by mortals, who are often much less forgiving and tolerant. These elder druids and clerics would most likely be very upset with this character's recent decision. Should they find out about it, they may try to make her life hard. However, unless she belongs to a strict order within the church of Silvanus and isn't reliant on these other clerics and druids there is likely very little for her to worry about.
I'd say she has far more to worry about from Tyr. He can sense everything occurring within 18 miles for up to an hour whenever his name or one of his titles is used. He more than likely will be rather upset to find out that a huckster is disguising herself as one of his clerics to perform this scam. I wouldn't use this as an excuse for the thumb of god to squish the two like bugs, but it can make an excellent opening for a story-line you have been waiting to spring on them. Read some of his divine abilities. I'd suggest that he use create object to change the text of the counterfeit letter to the literal truth of the matter and then lay a quest on those involved in performing the scam once the letter has been resolved.
Sarta |
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Beowulf
Learned Scribe
Canada
322 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2004 : 15:37:14
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Well met!
Not to critize, but an impressionable and naive druid? Aren't they supposed to be in touch with "nature unforgiving", and not hedged into an ivory tower of philosophy and wishful thinking?
In any event, I don't see what the problem is unless said druid uses her powers to this end. While I'm not overly familiar with the god in question, I don't think that he awarded her her spells so she could use them however she pleases. Rather, she should use them as HE pleases, no?
I suppose that, in any event, it could all be rationalized in the name of the spirit of the fox or something? So long as she keeps her priorities straight. |
"Ill tempered the wretch, who laughs at everyone. He cannot recognize, as he should, that he is not without faults." the High One, Poetic Edda |
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Brother Ezra
Learned Scribe
USA
268 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2004 : 17:19:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Sarta
quote:
Originally posted by Brother Ezra
In truth, I wouldn't be surprised if she started taking some levels in rogue. I don't know if the druid class will stick around or not.
Where would it go?
The way I look at it, Silvanus is an old god. He's seen a lot and isn't worried about foolishness that doesn't pertain to his spheres of influence. Look at the fae, there are plenty that are just as conniving as these two could hope to be. As long as their actions don't threaten the greater well-being of the forest and forest creatures, its not something Silvanus himself would worry about.
However, Silvanus' church is run by mortals, who are often much less forgiving and tolerant. These elder druids and clerics would most likely be very upset with this character's recent decision. Should they find out about it, they may try to make her life hard. However, unless she belongs to a strict order within the church of Silvanus and isn't reliant on these other clerics and druids there is likely very little for her to worry about.
I'd say she has far more to worry about from Tyr. He can sense everything occurring within 18 miles for up to an hour whenever his name or one of his titles is used. He more than likely will be rather upset to find out that a huckster is disguising herself as one of his clerics to perform this scam. I wouldn't use this as an excuse for the thumb of god to squish the two like bugs, but it can make an excellent opening for a story-line you have been waiting to spring on them. Read some of his divine abilities. I'd suggest that he use create object to change the text of the counterfeit letter to the literal truth of the matter and then lay a quest on those involved in performing the scam once the letter has been resolved.
Sarta
You make some very good points. I think that I agree that Silvanus wouldn't be overly offended by her actions. More likely, some uppity priest or druid may take issue with her actions.
Although I don't really play the gods with as much direct involvement as Faiths and Pantheons portrays, I do see major problems for her if Tyr's church finds out. Even more interesting: one of the other PC's in the group is a Tyrran cleric! Fun, fun! |
"Suffering is the touchstone of all spiritual growth."
-St. Sollars the Twice-Martyred |
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Arion Elenim
Senior Scribe
933 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2004 : 17:24:46
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Beowulf...I love the idea of said druid beginning to emulate the fox as a sort of "patron spirit".
As a DM, I would leap at the chance to push the druid in this direction...it would make the PC give more attention to her actions, and encourage her to continue being all stealthy and roguish and stuff, but channel them through her druidic nature.
Good call, Beowulf... |
My latest Realms-based short story, about a bard, a paladin of Lathander and the letter of the law, Debts Repaid. It takes place before the "shattering" and gives the bard Arion a last gasp before he plunges into the present.http://candlekeep.com/campaign/logs/log-debts.htm |
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Brother Ezra
Learned Scribe
USA
268 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2004 : 17:32:45
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quote:
Originally posted by Beowulf
Not to critize, but an impressionable and naive druid? Aren't they supposed to be in touch with "nature unforgiving", and not hedged into an ivory tower of philosophy and wishful thinking?
Not necessarily, if one thinks beyond the stereotypical, iconic portrayal of a druid. The character was raised in the confines of a large forest by her druid circle and ranger allies. Until well into her adulthood, she was not exposed to any elements of civilization, and knew only the simple rules of her people and the laws of nature. Raised by people who were rigorously truthful and pragmatic, she was in no way prepared for the deception, intrigue, hidden agendas, half-truths and morally ambiguous issues that greeted her in the civilized world. Her whole philosophy was indeed based on lofty ideals, many of which are being sorely tested by their encounter with reality.
Certainly your description of a druid is valid; the majority may actually be that way. My player just wanted to play a character that reflected her own personal style (she was new to the hobby, so her character's personality matches the players unfamiliarity with the game). She also wanted to steer away from the vengeful, eco-radical, throw-paint-on-your-fur-coat type, as druids are sometimes portrayed. She has enjoyed peace, serenity and harmony for most of her life, and her contact with the outside world is causing her to realize that those things were gained at a price paid by others. |
"Suffering is the touchstone of all spiritual growth."
-St. Sollars the Twice-Martyred |
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Sourcemaster2
Senior Scribe
USA
361 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2004 : 04:15:21
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| There isn't really much solid info to base that decision on. Most products and books use the standard tree-lover, without introducing the morally ambiguous problems of civilization. They tend to be shown as disliking civilized folk, but it's up to a character to decide the druid's perspective. As long as she continues to revere nature and serve Silvanus, her abilities should endure. Deception isn't forbidden to druids, but using her god-granted powers for a goal so unrelated to Silvanus's might incur some penalties. If she doesn't use her divine magic, I think she should be all right. |
But what have all the passing years/Done, but breed new angers, fears?/Show me now an equal worth/To innocence I earned at birth. |
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Sarta
Senior Scribe
USA
505 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2004 : 14:23:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Sourcemaster2
There isn't really much solid info to base that decision on. Most products and books use the standard tree-lover, without introducing the morally ambiguous problems of civilization. They tend to be shown as disliking civilized folk, but it's up to a character to decide the druid's perspective. As long as she continues to revere nature and serve Silvanus, her abilities should endure.
Actually, that's not quite true. Faiths and Avatars mentions:
quote:
Urban clergy of Silvanus more often become gardeners.... They often seek to attract followers by preaching of the peace and purity of the wilds and dispensing herbs and sweetsap drinks....
While it also mentions that these urban clergy are usually clerics, there is no reason that one could not be an urban druid of Silvanus. If anything, the urban druids would be far more naive regarding some of the more radical activities of the Greenleaf Bretheren to protect wild forests. They may be shocked to hear that fellow druids are intentionally relocating dangerous forest creatures to areas near populations to keep humans at bay.
Sarta |
Edited by - Sarta on 15 Jul 2004 14:25:52 |
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Odd bedfellows (my players stay out!)
