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Athreeren
Learned Scribe
132 Posts |
 Posted - 15 May 2023 : 19:18:29
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Ed's latest video mentions that a primordial named Trezorr is buried underneath the site where Baldur's Gate would be built millenia later. More precisely, Ed said "Trezorr was magically bound deep under the edge where the Arm and the Bowl meet on the north side of the River Chionthar,". He explained what the Bowl is: Gray Harbor was founded next to an oxbow on the Chiontar, and the river bluff around that oxbow is the Bowl. But his explanation of the Arm seems to have been cut. He mentions it several times though: he says this is one of the rare places in the city where there is level ground, and that it is a wealthy neighborhood.
Any idea where that point where the Arm and the Bowl meet could be?
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7974 Posts |
Posted - 15 May 2023 : 22:15:44
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A primordial or a fiend? Sounds something like Eltab to me.
Does the Underdark extend underneath Baldur's Gate? Is there a way for hardy adventurers to travel from the surface to Trezorr? Is Trezorr underwater?
Do locals have any knowledge of this imprisoned being? Do they have any (magical) interactions with this imprisoned being? |
[/Ayrik] |
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Seethyr
Master of Realmslore
USA
1151 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2023 : 00:57:20
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He’s an ooze primordial - I’m guessing he’s possibly an archomental like Bwimb based on how he was described. He travels through rock by liquifying it first and going through it in his liquid form but dragons trapped him within rock after removing this ability.
Freaking Ed never disappoints ever. |
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Athreeren
Learned Scribe
132 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2023 : 04:54:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Seethyr
He’s an ooze primordial - I’m guessing he’s possibly an archomental like Bwimb based on how he was described. He travels through rock by liquifying it first and going through it in his liquid form but dragons trapped him within rock after removing this ability.
Freaking Ed never disappoints ever.
Yes, he did say it was an ooze archomental. At first I thought it was too (in)convenient a coincidence that the place where it was sealed just happened to be where one of the largest city of the Realms would be built. But then I remembered that it's the Realms: it's only because there's a big city on top that we're hearing about it, who knows the myriads of other such creatures that are waiting to be found in the middle of nowhere? |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7974 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2023 : 06:10:08
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quote:
... the place where it was sealed just happened to be where one of the largest city of the Realms would be built.
You might be amazed, dismayed, horrified at some of the things buried under many cities on Earth. Especially the oldest cities, where layers have sunk underneath layers.
My city (Vancouver) has about ten stories of forgotten, sealed-off undercity. Not to mention abandoned rail tunnels, subway tunnels, and utility/service conduits which network everything.
When they dig down to build a new skyscraper you can see about 30 meters (100 feet) of old city layers built down to the bedrock. Some of the richest business real estate (Chinatown) was originally built on a toxic swamp. Other places are built on islands which are more like sandbars in the river deltas, they're pretty solid overall but sometimes things shift and sometimes these events bring old history to the surface: human remains and burial sites from centuries ago (or even from the pre-contact era), old anvils and swords, old vehicles, old ships, old religious artifacts, large sections of buildings nobody knew existed, hidden caches from the goldrush era, etc.
Vancouver, Seattle, San Francisco, and a few other large cities in the Pacific Northwest have similar patterns. They are indeed considered to be rough counterparts for cities like Neverwinter, Waterdeep, and Baldur's Gate.
And that's not even talking about what might be buried underneath truly ancient cities like Damascus, Athens, Istanbul, Jerusalem, etc. Nor merely old cities like London, Paris, Berlin, Moscow, etc. |
[/Ayrik] |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11711 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2023 : 14:51:02
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So, I was curious and am currently watching the video. I'm less concerned with the primordial and more the other information mentioned.
Trezzor was imprisoned by six dragons long ago "when the dragons turned against their primordial masters"... which was specifically mentioned to have happened on Abeir mind you, but I could see some primordials being left behind on Toril and imprisoned following the tearfall. Before being entrapped, he was seeking the "athora" and other masses of magical rock across Toril. The "nearest such nodes are Under Cormyr near High Horn and under Evereska,"
I wonder if there's any relation between Trezzor and Borem of the Boiling Mud, since Ed notes specifically Trezzor's ability to change rock to mud and move via that method. Since Borem seemingly may also be near one of these areas of magical rock (the hill of seven lost gods)... might it be that Borem is a "portion" of Trezzor poured off and sent to serve him? Or maybe Borem was a mortal being "cultist" that was "imbued" with this ability by Trezzor? Or maybe Borem is simply a "brother"?
Also, like many ooze type beings, he seems to have some psionic like powers, as he can project dreams to other beings. This leads me to say he's probably got ties to the Far Realm and is probably less of an "elemental" primordial and more of a "elder elemental evil" type primordial. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
Edited by - sleyvas on 16 May 2023 15:48:31 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2023 : 19:55:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
quote:
... the place where it was sealed just happened to be where one of the largest city of the Realms would be built.
You might be amazed, dismayed, horrified at some of the things buried under many cities on Earth. Especially the oldest cities, where layers have sunk underneath layers.
My city (Vancouver) has about ten stories of forgotten, sealed-off undercity. Not to mention abandoned rail tunnels, subway tunnels, and utility/service conduits which network everything.
When they dig down to build a new skyscraper you can see about 30 meters (100 feet) of old city layers built down to the bedrock. Some of the richest business real estate (Chinatown) was originally built on a toxic swamp. Other places are built on islands which are more like sandbars in the river deltas, they're pretty solid overall but sometimes things shift and sometimes these events bring old history to the surface: human remains and burial sites from centuries ago (or even from the pre-contact era), old anvils and swords, old vehicles, old ships, old religious artifacts, large sections of buildings nobody knew existed, hidden caches from the goldrush era, etc.
Vancouver, Seattle, San Francisco, and a few other large cities in the Pacific Northwest have similar patterns. They are indeed considered to be rough counterparts for cities like Neverwinter, Waterdeep, and Baldur's Gate.
And that's not even talking about what might be buried underneath truly ancient cities like Damascus, Athens, Istanbul, Jerusalem, etc. Nor merely old cities like London, Paris, Berlin, Moscow, etc.
In the Dresden Files, there's a fair amount of Chicago that's like that: layers that have been built over and forgotten, creating a maze of tunnels called Undertown.
There's criminals and people with no other place to go down there... But there's also a lot of things down there that avoid sunlight for other reasons; many of them aren't human and more than a few hail from the Nevernever, the Dresdenverse version of where the Fairy Courts and a lot of other supernaturals are found. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 16 May 2023 : 19:57:47
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
So, I was curious and am currently watching the video. I'm less concerned with the primordial and more the other information mentioned.
Trezzor was imprisoned by six dragons long ago "when the dragons turned against their primordial masters"... which was specifically mentioned to have happened on Abeir mind you, but I could see some primordials being left behind on Toril and imprisoned following the tearfall. Before being entrapped, he was seeking the "athora" and other masses of magical rock across Toril. The "nearest such nodes are Under Cormyr near High Horn and under Evereska,"
I wonder if there's any relation between Trezzor and Borem of the Boiling Mud, since Ed notes specifically Trezzor's ability to change rock to mud and move via that method. Since Borem seemingly may also be near one of these areas of magical rock (the hill of seven lost gods)... might it be that Borem is a "portion" of Trezzor poured off and sent to serve him? Or maybe Borem was a mortal being "cultist" that was "imbued" with this ability by Trezzor? Or maybe Borem is simply a "brother"?
Also, like many ooze type beings, he seems to have some psionic like powers, as he can project dreams to other beings. This leads me to say he's probably got ties to the Far Realm and is probably less of an "elemental" primordial and more of a "elder elemental evil" type primordial.
I don't see any reason to connect Borem and Trezzor; the ability to move through stone and such isn't a unique one, in D&D. That said, there's little information on Borem and far less on Trezzor, so I can't rule out a connection, either. I'd not go that way, but that doesn't mean it's not a good idea. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7974 Posts |
Posted - 17 May 2023 : 01:57:11
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I agree, Trezzor is probably more a powerful monster than a god-like threat. Partially because there's simply been no mention of Trezzor in Realmslore up to this point, gods and primordials and archplanars sometimes slip under the radar, but Borem is quite a known "celebrity" while Trezzor is an unknown nobody.
"Buried Trezzor" it itself an obvious pun intended to attract treasure seekers, adventurers, monster-slayers. |
[/Ayrik] |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11711 Posts |
Posted - 17 May 2023 : 23:50:00
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Borem was only known pretty much because of his involvement with Bane and company. But, that being said, I agree... not a definite tie, but it might be interesting to make one only because of Borem's relative nearness to a possible "power source" with the Hill of Seven Lost gods and the note that Trezzor was specifically looking for similar stuff to try and drain it. The 4e FRCG says
Seven Lost Gods: This term has been used to describe different groups of powerful entities at different times, sowing confusion even among learned sages. Some of these so-called “lost gods” might have been primordials. One group of beings that could fit this designation includes Dendar the Night Serpent, Kezef the Chaos Hound, and Borem of the Boiling Mud.
So, Borem appeared after some kind of mass rainfall after a time of drought. I'd bet that the rainfall was no accident and could have even been part of some ritual to free an entrapped Borem. Might be interesting if beings like Trezzor, Borem, etc... are akin to .... I don't want to use the term avatar, but I also don't want to use the word simulacrum.... but "pieces" of a more powerful being that separated out and were entrapped throughout the world and can act separately. Kind of like the idea presented for the entity, Pandorym, that the Imaskari broke apart which had a piece that very much resembled a sentient sphere of annihilation like Entropy.
Maybe even that's what happened when the batrachi "freed" a bunch of primordials.... a bunch of separated components buried throughout the world started moving together and reforming several even more powerful beings. Then maybe all these components started taking on individual dragons which had been around prior to the tearfall and had been forced to serve the more powerful beings previously. Then THOSE dragons were sent to Abeir with the twinning of the world? Or someone enacted some kind of timestream split at that point? Worth pondering and might make a better story than the one we have in our heads currently. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Buried Trezorr
