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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11701 Posts |
 Posted - 08 Dec 2022 : 15:36:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison
<snip> I did always wonder if the dragon eggs falling in 1373 is also how the dragons originated in -31000. The question is did the eggs fall before the meteor struck or did they fall after. If it is after then we have the problem of how did dragons get to Abeir, but if it was easier to cross between worlds back then, then that problem is solved.
One thing to note, and I did not catch it initially. The Lore is this
"the tearfall/first sundering happened and dragon eggs rained down"
but also
"the primordials went to abeir where their dragon mounts turned against them"
So, there were dragons around PRIOR to the tearfall. What kind they were... unknown without further research of 4e lore.
I've also often wondered if the dragons were "mounts" in the traditional sense (i.e. were the primordials riding around on the backs of dragons).... or were the primordials "riding in their minds controlling them" and thus the primordials were no longer able to mentally control the dragons and the dragons didn't actually "kill" their masters in many instances, but rather just gained control of their faculties again. There are some references to physical fights between primordial and dragon, so at least in some instances they may have physically fought, but that may have been only after the dragon regained its controls and then hunted down the primordial. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2443 Posts |
Posted - 15 Dec 2022 : 18:26:55
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Well, if we add 5e draconic lore, that may solve this particular issue. We know that dragons predate the current worlds of D&D, as they were denizens of the "First World". This is somehow supported by older lore (Mystara), which said dragons are really old creatures related to the draedens.
Perhaps the dragons enslaved by the primordials were the survivors of the destruction of the First World, unrelated with the new generation of dragons that were born in the new worlds.
Just a theory. |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6353 Posts |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 15 Dec 2022 : 19:08:46
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| Of course, Paizo had the First World as a thing long before someone at WotC decided to run with it. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11701 Posts |
Posted - 15 Dec 2022 : 23:14:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Of course, Paizo had the First World as a thing long before someone at WotC decided to run with it.
That idea in various forms has been around for a long damn time. I don't think Paizo can exactly take ownership. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2443 Posts |
Posted - 16 Dec 2022 : 01:36:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Of course, Paizo had the First World as a thing long before someone at WotC decided to run with it.
This is a case of the original copying the copy.  |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 16 Dec 2022 : 03:41:27
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Of course, Paizo had the First World as a thing long before someone at WotC decided to run with it.
That idea in various forms has been around for a long damn time. I don't think Paizo can exactly take ownership.
I didn't say they created it -- only that they were there long before WotC.
Heck, the movie The One, with Jet Li, predates Paizo doing their First World thing -- and with their multiversal dragons nonsense, WotC is heavily ripping off that movie, too. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 16 Dec 2022 03:44:10 |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6353 Posts |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 16 Dec 2022 : 14:00:28
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quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison
While I like the first world thing, the multiverse dragons initially sounded stupid. But, what if it only applies to the dragons from the first world. Much like the elder gods that can have duplicates all over the multiverse so can these elder dragons.
So what it really means is these elder dragons are able to create aspects anywhere and beings like Io, Tiamat, Bahamut, Garyx are all part of that group.
But that's not what they've said. They've made it so that all dragons are multiversal. And then they made it even weirder by saying "yeah, this dragon might be a CE red in one world, but could be a LG gold in another!"
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6353 Posts |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11701 Posts |
Posted - 16 Dec 2022 : 16:37:46
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Yeah, I prefer the idea of SOME as well. I would also say that with dragons of this type, if they "die" their spirit is reincarnated in a new dragon egg. I also don't like the changing types of dragons between worlds, but I'm not against the alignment difference.
That being said, I wouldn't say that its necessarily first world.... I would say that a dragon that somehow ascends can send his spirit into other worlds, where he is rebirthed. The idea of the air dragons of Coliar advancing to a great age and then becoming "air dragons" that are incorporeal and can travel wildspace.... maybe they are ascending and they're sending out portions of their spirit to be reborn in new worlds. Maybe they then instill via some ritual a large portion of their power into something, and then if their spirits can get all their variations to "join" they can regain this power and their memories.... kind of like, but different, Tiamat did following the spellplague in the Untheric area where she split herself amongst 3 dragons |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2443 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2022 : 02:51:01
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| I agree with keeping the good ideas of Fizban's. For instance, I like the idea of dragons being tied to the Material Plane. I've liked this idea since I read it in the 2e Draconomicon, actually. This could explain why dragons were susceptible to the primordials' control, as their elemental nature could have been easily influenced by the masters of the elemental creatures. We can even create some explanation for the Rage based on this lore. |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
Edited by - Zeromaru X on 17 Dec 2022 02:52:06 |
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Rage of Dragons, questions & speculations
