| Author |
 Topic  |
|
CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
 Posted - 28 Apr 2022 : 02:28:27
|
| Yeah, lack of lore isn't great--and I feel like 5e is already heading in that direction. The lore we've been getting is pretty sparse, and what we do get is either, again, sparse, or changed randomly. |
Sweet water and light laughter |
 |
|
|
Azar
Master of Realmslore
1301 Posts |
Posted - 30 Apr 2022 : 02:55:52
|
| Even if WOTC releases a comprehensive FR setting book within two years, by that point it will have been close to a decade since the debut of 5e; that sort of "release schedule" is grossly glacial. |
Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.
Earth names in the Realms are more common than you may think. |
|
|
|
Old Man Harpell
Senior Scribe
USA
495 Posts |
Posted - 02 May 2022 : 00:59:25
|
At this point, they should consider the idea of turning production of the Realms over to third party licensees - maybe include a clause that Ed Greenwood should be given final approval before publishing any particular work.
Leave the Sword Coast as is, unless third-party licensees want to work on that, too, and move on to the Moonsea, or the Shining South, or what have you.
But even if 5th Edition stays in place for another decade or however long (and it very well might do just that), they're leaving money on the table by not having someone look into other places. GM's Guild helps (Rashamen, The Border Kingdoms, etc), but they could do a lot more with the materials they have.
- OMH |
|
|
|
Kelcimer
Learned Scribe
USA
136 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2022 : 04:56:09
|
Hello Old Man Harpell!
quote:
Originally posted by Old Man Harpell
At this point, they should consider the idea of turning production of the Realms over to third party licensees - maybe include a clause that Ed Greenwood should be given final approval before publishing any particular work.
I agree. That sounds like the best option for "official" products to be quality. Let people that actually care about the setting be the ones to create new material for it.
Hello Wooly Rupert!
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Even though it's not what I'd prefer to see, I've become increasingly convinced that the best thing to do would be scrap everything and roll back to the Old Gray Box.
I dunno. I think the answer is to recognize that the setting is a murdered franchise, come to peace with the fact that WotC is not ever going to handle the setting the way it deserves to be, and to do what you want for your own game with what products you find to be quality.
Hello gregc!
quote:
Originally posted by gregc
Will WOTC ever redo Matzica, Karatur and any other problematic regions based on real world history?
If someone really wants a published setting that is like Matzica, then they can go out and create their own setting to that effect. Something that isn't just an add on to the realms. Maybe make it in such a way as that it is conducive to being adapted as a replacement for Matzica. But hoping that WotC is going to care enough to a) return to it and b) do a good job sounds like "Waiting for Godot".
Embrace the freedom of just doing with Matzica what you want. This past year I realized Mulmaster did not work for me and I worked up my own writeup of its history and political system. I let my players know what I was doing and they affirmed that I should do what was necessary.
The point is that the published materials are just a starting point. Build your campaign to suit. Cut or rework whatever doesn't work for you. You don't have to wait for WotC to do something they are not going to do. |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 04 May 2022 : 11:05:39
|
quote:
Originally posted by Kelcimer
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Even though it's not what I'd prefer to see, I've become increasingly convinced that the best thing to do would be scrap everything and roll back to the Old Gray Box.
I dunno. I think the answer is to recognize that the setting is a murdered franchise, come to peace with the fact that WotC is not ever going to handle the setting the way it deserves to be, and to do what you want for your own game with what products you find to be quality.
"Not ever" is a very long time. No one could have predicted in the days of 2E that we'd be in the position we are now, with regards to the setting.
While it is unlikely, my statement was made with the assumption that a future design team was, as is the topic of the discussion, trying to salvage the setting. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
|
|
|
Azar
Master of Realmslore
1301 Posts |
|
|
Kelcimer
Learned Scribe
USA
136 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2022 : 05:57:02
|
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
"Not ever" is a very long time. No one could have predicted in the days of 2E that we'd be in the position we are now, with regards to the setting.
While it is unlikely, my statement was made with the assumption that a future design team was, as is the topic of the discussion, trying to salvage the setting.
I'm trying to think of a single franchise (across gaming, novels, TV, and movies) that has managed to correct itself after years and years of being abused. I can't think of one. Maybe it will happen? Maybe? There's always a first time? |
|
|
|
Azar
Master of Realmslore
1301 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2022 : 06:15:34
|
| It's the lottery: if the odds are beaten, fantastic, but I won't waste a moment keeping the topic at the forefront of mind. |
Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.
Earth names in the Realms are more common than you may think. |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2022 : 12:50:18
|
quote:
Originally posted by Kelcimer
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
"Not ever" is a very long time. No one could have predicted in the days of 2E that we'd be in the position we are now, with regards to the setting.
While it is unlikely, my statement was made with the assumption that a future design team was, as is the topic of the discussion, trying to salvage the setting.
I'm trying to think of a single franchise (across gaming, novels, TV, and movies) that has managed to correct itself after years and years of being abused. I can't think of one. Maybe it will happen? Maybe? There's always a first time?
The BattleTech franchise jumped the shark with the Jihad (which was orders of magnitude worse than the Spellplague, because you couldn't hand-wave stuff away by blaming gods or magic). They went hard for the Dark Age stuff until they realized everyone hated it, and now they've changed course by revisiting the Clan Invasion timeframe and by sweeping the Dark Ages stuff under the rug and pushing hard with the ilClan era stuff. They didn't undo the Jihad and the Dark Ages, they just don't mention it as they go back in the direction of stuff people liked. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 05 May 2022 12:50:58 |
|
|
|
Seethyr
Master of Realmslore
USA
1151 Posts |
Posted - 05 May 2022 : 15:57:24
|
quote:
Originally posted by Kelcimer
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
"Not ever" is a very long time. No one could have predicted in the days of 2E that we'd be in the position we are now, with regards to the setting.
While it is unlikely, my statement was made with the assumption that a future design team was, as is the topic of the discussion, trying to salvage the setting.
I'm trying to think of a single franchise (across gaming, novels, TV, and movies) that has managed to correct itself after years and years of being abused. I can't think of one. Maybe it will happen? Maybe? There's always a first time?
Marvel is certainly an example. A number of times actually. I mean, Captain America was secretly a Hydra agent his whole life? Yes let’s multiverse that the heck away.
The multi billion dollar movie franchise itself is a perfect example. |
Follow the Maztica (Aztec/Maya) and Anchorome (Indigenous North America) Campaigns on DMsGuild!
The Maztica Campaign
The Anchorome Campaign |
|
|
|
Old Man Harpell
Senior Scribe
USA
495 Posts |
Posted - 06 May 2022 : 06:29:04
|
quote:
Originally posted by Azar
Leave my Zakhara alone  .
I very much doubt we have anything to worry about in that regard. I agree, though, that it's best that WotC not delve too deeply into resurrecting anything more by way of more of the classic properties. We already know that Spelljammer and Dragonlance are coming to the gaming table - I'm worried enough at what those will entail, I confess I don't much relish learning what their take on Al-Qadim or Oriental Adventures would be. |
|
|
|
Kelcimer
Learned Scribe
USA
136 Posts |
Posted - 07 May 2022 : 07:42:19
|
Hello Seethyr!
quote:
Originally posted by Seethyr
Marvel is certainly an example. A number of times actually. I mean, Captain America was secretly a Hydra agent his whole life? Yes let’s multiverse that the heck away.
The multi billion dollar movie franchise itself is a perfect example.
Marvel is not an example, either the comics or the movies.
I collected Marvel Comics from 1993-2008. Continuity basically went out the window in the late mid to late 90's. Creators used to spend years and years on a title, but the average length of a creator on a title went down to something like 6 months to a year. There are endless reboots, fresh starts, relaunching with a new #1, bringing everyone back from the dead, etc. Having editors who care is not a solution. When they had about 32 titles in the late 80's early 90's it was still possible for a small editorial team to ride herd on continuity, but by the time they got up to 60+ titles a month, it became too much. Good luck on finding a narrative over the course of ten years on any title when it has had 14 changes in creative teams in the same time. I still visit my old comic-book store to talk shop periodically to keep tabs on the state of comics and I also follow Brian Hibbs Tilting at Windmills. Every problem with the comic book industry in general and with Marvel Comics in particular that finally got me to quit in 2008 is still there, but on steroids. This is reflected in sales. In the 1980's Uncanny X-Men was routinely selling 3/4th of a million copies per month. The corresponding title today is lucky to break 50K. That's embarrassing. This is Marvel. They shouldn't have a single title selling under 100K.
As far as the movies go, I thought phase 1 was a solid entry. Then they started to go off the rails in Phase 2, and that has born the fruit in Phase 3 and beyond as I predicted. They can't even do a single universe right and now they are moving straight into "Crisis on Infinite Earths". The only reason "Crisis" was justifiable on a story level was because DC's continuity had gotten so mucked up by the early 80's and they wanted to attempt a story based explanation to sort it out. But since then DC have had fairly regular "Crisis" events. As one of those later events said "Crisis never ended". The strength of Marvel Comics, compared to DC, was that it had a much tighter continuity and didn't need a multiverse to sort out any problems they had with continuity.
So what are they doing in the movies? Instead of making sure to master one universe pretty darn well, they are heading to the dumpster fire of a multiverse. I would describe the Marvel Cinematic Universe as basically the equivalent of a series of one-shots that have high profile creative teams that are merely riffing on better stories told decades prior. There is no through-line and no plan. I had such high hopes too. Phase 1 was pretty strong. *sigh*. Such unrealized potential. |
|
|
|
Topic |
|
Can we salvage Toril?
