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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11695 Posts |
 Posted - 01 Jul 2021 : 14:46:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
quote:
Originally posted by keftiu
Where do we think these “southern jungles” are for the lorendrow?
Chult is the obvious place here, at least if we are talking about Faerűn.
No offense, but I vote no on this unless its a faction "moving in from elsewhere". Chult is its own thing, and there is so much of the world that's unexplored. If there's some faction of dark elves that noone's seen before, then put it somewhere unexplored. Especially if its far from the coast of Toril, it could explain why noone has documented them.
Admittedly, I've only been thinking about this for a couple days since I looked into this new idea... but... looking at this map for reference
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/wiki/Osse?file=Toril-3e.jpg
There's the BIG "Unknown Lands" that's separate but directly below Maztica. Most of us have been calling that Katashaka. Then there's a smaller "continent" that's almost as big as Maztica and Lopango put together that has absolutely nothing written on it (and some other homebrew maps have labeled this place tabaxiland). I've recently been calling that place "East Katashaka" because there's some contention on which of the two is "actually Katashaka", and my contention is that at one point they were the same place before the smaller separated from the former.
I vote we go with the smaller "continent" that has no name on it.
Now, I would also add, that's not the ONLY place I would put them. If they're supposed to be a presence similar to Lolth's drow, and especially going with my ideas of stealing dead goddess, Kiga the Predator, from Zakhara... then maybe heading a little east from there into the islands of the corsairs of the great sea off Zakhar's west coast... after all these islands may not JUST be corsairs and there's a lot of them. I'd further say that maybe the islands south of Zakhara in the Crowded Sea as well (possibly even some "off the map" of the Zakhara map... so further south... as the scholar's guide map indicates the crowded sea might be bigger than we even imagine with one really big island that isn't shown on the Zakhar map just a little further south and "mid" the line up the middle of Zakhara). There may also be some clans/tribes/families in the "bigger" Katashaka, and maybe even Osse.
so that gives us
A) East Katashaka
B) "Corsair Isles"/"Utter East Isles" off the Western Coast of Zakhara
C) Islands of the Utter South... and further south of those which may not be discovered... in the Crowded Sea of Zakhara.
D) Katashaka itself as a small faction
E) Osse as maybe a "lost tribe" that grew?
I further think it might be a decent idea to have a link between somewhere in this and Eberron, to have the jungle drow there having either come from there or vice versa. Not entirely sold on that though.
I think in spreading these drow out, we can also have them interacting with other cultures in different way. For instance, in the place I'm calling "East Katashaka" they might interact with the natives who became the tabaxi of Chult. In the islands off Zakhara's west coast, maybe there's an island group of "water and air bender" cultures with a bit of a Polynesian feel. South of Zakhara maybe they have to deal with the Zakharan cultures.
I'd also like to see less human domination in other areas of Toril. That being said, I don't necessarily want to see drow domination either. But some dark elves that have to live alongside some cat folk could be interesting (or who are in conflict with them as well). Maybe even some black jaguar folk are actually drow who were changed by their god long ago, or some lyncanthropic drow who change into cats. Having both good and despicable factions amongst these drow can be good, possibly some being similar to Lolth's drow and taking slaves, but not living under the earth. It makes for a good thing for player's to hate on.
Also, as an added factor into all this... remember this is all after the second sundering. Some of these drow may have spent the last hundred years in Abeir. Their culture may even be divided where PORTIONS of them went to Abeir and have returned. We have a lot of potential to play with here, so the key would be don't make them generic. That's kind of what happened with Lolth's drow and people got upset because "all drow are like this". Take the opportunity to develop different groups and different views, but all possibly having come from a similar past that expanded.
BTW, I'm throwing out any idea that's coming to my head in the above to open discussion. I'm not married to anything, but I find if someone doesn't throw something out... it doesn't go anywhere. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
Edited by - sleyvas on 01 Jul 2021 15:05:14 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2021 : 15:11:56
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I don't think we'll be exploring unknown lands, for these nudrow* cities or communities.
Part of that is the "creative" mandates I've already decried more than once, but part of it is also the fact that the further away from the Sword Coast and Heartlands they put these nudrow, the less relevant they are.
WotC has been keeping the focus on one area of the Realms, and they're going to want these nudrow to be accessible and relevant to that area.
(Besides, if they put the nudrow in previously unknown lands, that puts pressure on them to add more to those lands -- and the current "creative" mandate goes against that.)
*In Shadowrun, the primary currency is "nuyen" -- inspired by the "new yen" in Neuromancer. I am now dubbing these new flavors of drow "nudrow" because it amuses me and it's an easy shorthand. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11695 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2021 : 16:01:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I don't think we'll be exploring unknown lands, for these nudrow* cities or communities.
Part of that is the "creative" mandates I've already decried more than once, but part of it is also the fact that the further away from the Sword Coast and Heartlands they put these nudrow, the less relevant they are.
WotC has been keeping the focus on one area of the Realms, and they're going to want these nudrow to be accessible and relevant to that area.
(Besides, if they put the nudrow in previously unknown lands, that puts pressure on them to add more to those lands -- and the current "creative" mandate goes against that.)
*In Shadowrun, the primary currency is "nuyen" -- inspired by the "new yen" in Neuromancer. I am now dubbing these new flavors of drow "nudrow" because it amuses me and it's an easy shorthand.
That doesn't mean that we shouldn't propose it (and I know you get this, but I'm kind of posting my "why" to forestall naysaying statements). We are the customers and so long as we give them a WAY to do it without pigeonholing them, it can give them a way to write things in a way that maybe they hadn't thought about.
So, if they want to put these drow in Chult, as I said, it can be a new group that's expanding from elsewhere. It could also be Nimbral returning with some of them there that expanded while on Abeir. It could also be in the Chondalwood, with them returning from Abeir as well. When we discuss ideas for where from, we're giving them a general direction that they can put in hints for.
IF this concept just blows up, AND they decide they want to explore it further for the cash cow "hey, we have a new take on drow, buy this book, its not the same thing as the other underdark books about drow"..... they can expand. If they don't want to explore it, they then leave an avenue open for people to develop. They MIGHT (doubt it) but MIGHT decide that the best path to explore opening up a new continent is via a novel series too. That might allow for development of select areas but allow for further growth later.
But in the end, I don't think saying "these drow have always been in Chult but noone ever knew about them" or "these drow were in Chondalwood, but noone ever knew about them" is the way to go. Better that maybe there used to be some portal connecting them to wherever. They may do it, but ultimately, I think we can show them why its better to be less definitive. That is how we ended up with "all drow are Lolth worshippers and they all have matron mothers with snake whips".
EDIT: And in thinking for a second about the above ... possibly multiple DIFFERENT groups of these "jungle drow" are suddenly appearing in different areas of Faerun (i.e. Chult, Chondalwood, Nimbral) because of the second sundering.... but different CULTURES of these jungle drow. They don't have to be from the same area even... some might be from East Katashaka. Others might be from islands east of Zakhara, etc.... In other words, it can open up a whole can of change possibilities that don't need to be large in scale. Some of them MIGHT be showing up down in dinosaur lands of Unther even, as there were some drow there as well. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
Edited by - sleyvas on 01 Jul 2021 16:10:08 |
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HighOne
Learned Scribe
214 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2021 : 16:49:11
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quote:
Originally posted by keftiu
Where do we think these “southern jungles” are for the lorendrow?
Samarach or Tashalar. I wouldn't be surprised if it turns out to be Chult, but I think that's the wrong way to go for a number of reasons. |
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deserk
Learned Scribe
Norway
237 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2021 : 21:46:48
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Chult isn't the most terrible place to put them, since it is the largest jungle in Faerun. There are also wild elves that are purported to live there, though there is virtually no information on them. Also truth be told, I think the current WotC staff as well as RAS are far more aware of what Chult is, than Tashalar or Samarach. I seriously doubt either the current staff or RAS know next to anything about Tashalar or Samarach; lands that have only been properly detailed in the Serpent Kingdoms book in 3rd edition.
Also, given the vastness of Chult and the remoteness of it's interior, it's not implausible for no one to have known about jungle dwelling drow there. It's also doubtful that there are any drow settlements in the Serpent Deeps (the Underdark domain beneath the Chultan Peninsula), since many parts of it are volcanic and inhospitable to drow, and are swarming with firenewts and other reptilian creatures, thus knowledge of a surface drow culture wouldn't have transmitted from one culturally typical drow city to another.
Chult isn't also as politically dominated by Yuan-ti clans like the Mhair and Black Jungle. |
Edited by - deserk on 01 Jul 2021 21:55:16 |
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HighOne
Learned Scribe
214 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2021 : 22:24:40
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quote:
Originally posted by deserk
Tashalar or Samarach; lands that have only been properly detailed in the Serpent Kingdoms book in 3rd edition.
That's exactly why I think it would be a good idea to place a drow settlement in Tashalar or Samarach: they haven't been fully explored, so something new could crop up there without it seeming like a total retcon. Chult, meanwhile, was exhaustively detailed in 5E's Tomb of Annihilation, which even included a hex-map of Chult. Players could explore the entire jungle, including the interior, hex by hex. Kind of odd that no one would have discovered a settlement of drow during that time. |
Edited by - HighOne on 01 Jul 2021 22:25:11 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11695 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jul 2021 : 22:51:05
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quote:
Originally posted by HighOne
quote:
Originally posted by deserk
Tashalar or Samarach; lands that have only been properly detailed in the Serpent Kingdoms book in 3rd edition.
That's exactly why I think it would be a good idea to place a drow settlement in Tashalar or Samarach: they haven't been fully explored, so something new could crop up there without it seeming like a total retcon. Chult, meanwhile, was exhaustively detailed in 5E's Tomb of Annihilation, which even included a hex-map of Chult. Players could explore the entire jungle, including the interior, hex by hex. Kind of odd that no one would have discovered a settlement of drow during that time.
Yeah, I could buy Samarach as well more than Chult for exactly the reasons you describe (plus, with its ties to illusion magic, a hidden city isn't unbelievable). It might be the one place that I could see them as having already existed. In fact, I actually like that idea as a place where they might have been slowly expanding into (and it could possibly put some twists on things if you also had them heading into Nimbral prior to the spellplague, and the two groups became separate).
That being said, you have these udadrow that are everywhere. The idea that these other two groups of drow would only be just 2 new drow cities and not completely separate cultures is what I thought they were trying to do (may be wrong). If its just a city that doesn't worship Lolth, there are those (there was one focused on Kiaransalee, another where they mostly rejected religion in favor of arcane arts, etc....). I would hope that this is a large group of drow, not just a city full of each. Otherwise, really, what's the point. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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AJA
Senior Scribe
USA
747 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2021 : 00:58:20
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Don't think this has been posted here?
https://twitter.com/TheEdVerse/status/1410672846389583880
Ed Greenwood@TheEdVerse
Replying to @Bog97th @3DragonMinimum and 6 others
Me, too!
Yet I'm not sure a "baseline" Realms guide for 5e is in the cards. Sigh.
2:53 PM · Jul 1, 2021·Twitter Web App
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AJA
YAFRP
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HighOne
Learned Scribe
214 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2021 : 04:15:34
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quote:
Originally posted by AJA
Don't think this has been posted here?
https://twitter.com/TheEdVerse/status/1410672846389583880
Ed Greenwood@TheEdVerse
Replying to @Bog97th @3DragonMinimum and 6 others
Me, too!
Yet I'm not sure a "baseline" Realms guide for 5e is in the cards. Sigh.
2:53 PM · Jul 1, 2021·Twitter Web App
Would they even tell Ed if they were working on one? I don't think he's even credited on the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide (or any other 5E product?). |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2021 : 05:31:16
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quote:
Originally posted by HighOne
Would they even tell Ed if they were working on one? I don't think he's even credited on the Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide (or any other 5E product?).
Even if he wasn't officially notified (which I think unlikely), I'd still expect any designer working on a setting book for the Realms -- whether the mythical campaign book or a regional book -- would contact Ed for info he can use. |
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Hint that Faerun Campaign Book is by MtG team
