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ElfBane
Learned Scribe
USA
277 Posts |
 Posted - 13 Aug 2016 : 12:13:29
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Of the Gods of Knowledge and Invention (Oghma, Deneir, Gond and Milil), which are still around post-Spellplague?
Also, if anyone knows the lore, or a reference to a source, about how the SP affected the above-mentioned gods, I would appreciate it. Thanx!
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2016 : 20:06:42
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quote:
Originally posted by ElfBane
Of the Gods of Knowledge and Invention (Oghma, Deneir, Gond and Milil), which are still around post-Spellplague?
Also, if anyone knows the lore, or a reference to a source, about how the SP affected the above-mentioned gods, I would appreciate it. Thanx!
My understanding is that with 5th E, they (the gods) are pretty much all back. |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3802 Posts |
Posted - 13 Aug 2016 : 20:16:17
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quote:
Originally posted by ElfBane
Of the Gods of Knowledge and Invention (Oghma, Deneir, Gond and Milil), which are still around post-Spellplague?
Also, if anyone knows the lore, or a reference to a source, about how the SP affected the above-mentioned gods, I would appreciate it. Thanx!
Only Deneir ''died'' during the Spellplague. He tried to write himself into the Weave (whatever that's supposed to mean) in order to save it, but failed and was shattered with it.
However, he is alive and kicking after the Sundering (don't ask how, the best you'll get is ''Ao did it'').
Milil was reduced to an exarch in service of Oghma. Gond supposedly saw an increase in his worshipers (because of all the ''look at what magic does, we need something more reliable'' cries that followed the Spellplague. Although I'm not entirely sure about this last part. And he surely lost at least as many worshipers when Lantan was flooded and sunk). Oghma was pretty much unaffected by the SP, that I know. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 13 Aug 2016 20:21:57 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2016 : 00:11:44
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quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
quote:
Originally posted by ElfBane
Of the Gods of Knowledge and Invention (Oghma, Deneir, Gond and Milil), which are still around post-Spellplague?
Also, if anyone knows the lore, or a reference to a source, about how the SP affected the above-mentioned gods, I would appreciate it. Thanx!
Only Deneir ''died'' during the Spellplague. He tried to write himself into the Weave (whatever that's supposed to mean) in order to save it, but failed and was shattered with it.
However, he is alive and kicking after the Sundering (don't ask how, the best you'll get is ''Ao did it'').
If I had to explain it, I'd say that he succeeded in writing himself into the Weave, but then the Weave was too damaged for him to do much other than hold himself together. With Mystra's return, the Weave was repaired enough for him to separate from it again. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3802 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2016 : 00:19:42
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Yes, it could make sense. After all, Ed explained Eilistraee's return more or less like that, so it could be that more than a couple deities remained trapped in the Weave in some way when it was broken, and then emerged when it was restored.
However, I meant that there isn't any clear official explanation. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2016 : 02:41:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
Yes, it could make sense. After all, Ed explained Eilistraee's return more or less like that, so it could be that more than a couple deities remained trapped in the Weave in some way when it was broken, and then emerged when it was restored.
However, I meant that there isn't any clear official explanation.
Oh, I get that. Hence my caveat of "if I had to explain it."
Another explanation could be that before writing himself into the Weave, he used a set of tomes as a sort of phylactery. The tomes would have appeared to have been simple, unremarkable books, scattered around his temples and prominent libraries. For his resurrection/return, the books had to be assembled in one place, and some sort of ritual involving reading them (and perhaps making some sort of compilation volume) would have been performed, allowing him to "re-bind" himself into a deity.
In fact, it'd be really fun if Deneir was an ascended mortal, and some of the books used in the ritual were ones he'd written or scribed as a mortal! |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 14 Aug 2016 02:48:39 |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3802 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2016 : 04:34:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Another explanation could be that before writing himself into the Weave, he used a set of tomes as a sort of phylactery. The tomes would have appeared to have been simple, unremarkable books, scattered around his temples and prominent libraries. For his resurrection/return, the books had to be assembled in one place, and some sort of ritual involving reading them (and perhaps making some sort of compilation volume) would have been performed, allowing him to "re-bind" himself into a deity.
In fact, it'd be really fun if Deneir was an ascended mortal, and some of the books used in the ritual were ones he'd written or scribed as a mortal!
This is a really nice (and thematically fitting) explanation, I like it better than the one involving the Weave (plus, if Mystra hid in a bear, Helm in a goat, and Myrkul in the Crown, then Deneir could surely have hidden into some books). It could also make for an interesting plot hook in pre-Sundering campaigns. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 14 Aug 2016 04:36:36 |
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Wrigley
Senior Scribe
Czech Republic
605 Posts |
Posted - 14 Aug 2016 : 16:28:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
Yes, it could make sense. After all, Ed explained Eilistraee's return more or less like that, so it could be that more than a couple deities remained trapped in the Weave in some way when it was broken, and then emerged when it was restored.
However, I meant that there isn't any clear official explanation.
Oh, I get that. Hence my caveat of "if I had to explain it."
Another explanation could be that before writing himself into the Weave, he used a set of tomes as a sort of phylactery. The tomes would have appeared to have been simple, unremarkable books, scattered around his temples and prominent libraries. For his resurrection/return, the books had to be assembled in one place, and some sort of ritual involving reading them (and perhaps making some sort of compilation volume) would have been performed, allowing him to "re-bind" himself into a deity.
In fact, it'd be really fun if Deneir was an ascended mortal, and some of the books used in the ritual were ones he'd written or scribed as a mortal!
As first mention of Deneir is at 25 DR he is almost surely a ascended mortal and it is said that he ascended through understanding and possibly writing some symbols of power so they could still be around infused with his divine essence and during spellplague could have anchored him to Toril... |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2016 : 15:43:04
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This is a bit off topic, but since it is a question about surviving gods, I thought I'd just attach it here:
What is the status of Myrkul? Is he back to being a god again? or still inside the Crown of Horns... If he's back to being a god, what is the status of the crown?
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3802 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2016 : 15:48:37
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| Myrkul is back as a god. The crown was ''spellplagued''. It fused with one of the leaders of the Iron Ring in Skullport, its former owner, the yuan-ti Nhyris D'Hotek. It warped him into some kind of spellplague beast, driven mad by the whispers of Myrkul's voice. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3286 Posts |
Posted - 15 Aug 2016 : 16:29:38
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| I like the idea behind Deneir merging his essence with a book or books. If Shoon VII can do it after a fashion, why not a God... |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11700 Posts |
Posted - 16 Aug 2016 : 14:48:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
Myrkul is back as a god. The crown was ''spellplagued''. It fused with one of the leaders of the Iron Ring in Skullport, its former owner, the yuan-ti Nhyris D'Hotek. It warped him into some kind of spellplague beast, driven mad by the whispers of Myrkul's voice.
Oh, interesting. I did not know this. From what resource did this come? |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3802 Posts |
Posted - 16 Aug 2016 : 14:57:08
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| One of the 4e dungeon magazines (the one with the Skullport writeup, #200 I think). |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 16 Aug 2016 : 20:33:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
Myrkul is back as a god. The crown was ''spellplagued''. It fused with one of the leaders of the Iron Ring in Skullport, its former owner, the yuan-ti Nhyris D'Hotek. It warped him into some kind of spellplague beast, driven mad by the whispers of Myrkul's voice.
I really wish they'd not done this. I loved Myrkul as a former deity turned deliberate annoyance.  |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 16 Aug 2016 : 22:38:25
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Thanks Irennan. I definitely think I'm going to have Myrkul kill off the yaun-ti thing and make an NCP that is like a banelich only a myrkul-lich with the crown. Aside for a couple plague-beasts in the novels (I liked the tree-like thing from the Aboleth books for example), I never liked them much, and think its better to move on without them.
On similar - or at least geographically close by - note, has there been any new mention of Halaster or the Skulls of Skullport and their thralls. (I never liked the thrall idea much; the rag mage and Shandrin would be more interesting as independent in my mind). |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3802 Posts |
Posted - 16 Aug 2016 : 22:57:48
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quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
Thanks Irennan. I definitely think I'm going to have Myrkul kill off the yaun-ti thing and make an NCP that is like a banelich only a myrkul-lich with the crown. Aside for a couple plague-beasts in the novels (I liked the tree-like thing from the Aboleth books for example), I never liked them much, and think its better to move on without them.
On similar - or at least geographically close by - note, has there been any new mention of Halaster or the Skulls of Skullport and their thralls. (I never liked the thrall idea much; the rag mage and Shandrin would be more interesting as independent in my mind).
Sadly, no mention of Halaster.
The rag mage has become a skull on his own (the 14th skull), and he(it?)'s supposedly responsible for new mithral veins being discovered in Skullport, and for people starting to settle again down there. IIRC, there's a new ''organization'' that answers to him, called ''the Fray''. They are 13 spellcasters that go around dressed in tattered robes, whispering random crazy stuff, and looking for both magic items lost in the ruins of Skullport, and victims to feed to the Mantle. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11700 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2016 : 01:04:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
I like the idea behind Deneir merging his essence with a book or books. If Shoon VII can do it after a fashion, why not a God...
Hmmmmm, blueflame magic items were supposedly items which were infused with a spirit. Now, the ones we heard of in novels were the ones created by Larloch and that held members of the Nine and Mirt. The Chosen were given the task of finding blueflame magic items and releasing their "power" into the weave.
However, if some gods were forced to descend into basically artifacts which housed their spirits.... might they have been seen (or actually have been) some of these "blueflame" magic items.
BTW,
does anyone know of a good list of deities that were made "dead" in the years between 1357 to 1385 (and which had not returned, such as Bane, by the time of the spellplague or immediately following the spellplague). I know of the deity listing on the web, but it tends to not show the ones that died in the spellplague or in the years leading up to it as listed in the grand history of the realms.
The ones I can think of offhand were:
Savras, Mystra, Leira, Azuth, Velsharoon (eventually, just noting him as a reminder), Lathander (kinda), Deneir, Helm, Tyr, Myrkul, Bhaal, Eilistraee, Mask (think he was dead?), Gargauth, Gilgeam, the Mulhorandi Pantheon, Ramman, Kalzareinad, Kiaransalee, Vhaeraun, Selvetarm, Gorm Gulthyn, Haela Brightaxe, Laduguer, Deep Duerra
Were there any others? I'm thinking there was some serpent deity that died too.
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Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Gods of Knowledge
