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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire

USA
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Posted - 22 Jan 2018 :  22:04:47  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

quote:
Originally posted by MarkusTay

Perhaps I can simply spin it so that the ones 'left behind' were the ones that got 'pussified'.



Lol, that's kind of funny. You're putting cat folk on that island to the east. I'm thinking about having the "third tribe" of Mulans (and I admit, this is a VERY recent thought, but it could work) as being there (the ones following Bast, Mihos, and Pakhet), but filling up Northern Katashaka with the various different cat folk (which, OMG, before I started this, I didn't realize how many options there were).
Yes, there most certainly are. LOTS. Nearly all of which I am blaming on ancient (about the time of The Crown Wars) Rakshasa experimentation, which winds up tying all this together with my Zakhara lore (that it was originally a land ruled by Rasahsa, but their genie slaves rebelled. Then the genies turned-around and did the same damn thing - became 'ebil overlords').

I didn't really want to touch Tabaxiland... But its RIGHT THERE. Its kind of hard to ignore it, when you're working on Katashaka. Going back to my really old Tabaxi 'fix' and lore - thats the island the Rakshasa stole tabaxi people from and experimented on, creating the feline tabaxi. Originally I had it where those 'experiments' eventually got away, and we have them all over the place in the Realms (there is a whole Realm in K-T - Petan - that is secretly ruled by them). Those are the 'catfolk' that have popped-up from time to time.

However, I now have to change some things, now that some of the history has been filled in. The Tabaxi that were kidnapped (catnapped? ) and changed - after the genies began their rebellion, the tabaxi (really, the descendants of the originals, but they kept stories about their 'homeland paradise' alive) went BACK throught he gate the Raksasha used (in fact, they probably used it constantly, gathering new 'raw material', and also, it made for a good hunting grounds for them, especially with Katashaka nearby). In fact, we could even take this a step further and say that there were a bunch of Raksasha tielfings (catlings? Felings? Thundercats?) on the other side of the gate, maintaining an 'enclave' for their masters, and when the Raksasha empire fell, they were taken by surprise by all the returning tabaxi catfolk (who killed them all... maybe... but maybe not...)

Then the native Tbaxi are like, "Hey, who the heck are you guys?" And they were like, "We're tabaxi, same as you!" And they were all like, "Ummmm... no... you look like those guys who have been giving us crap for the past few centuries. We don't want you here!"

And fighting ensued, and the original Tabaxi people were weaker then the returnees (I mean, like, they didn't have claws, or fangs, or cute 'lil cat-ears, etc...). So the Cuoutl(sp?) showed up, and were all like, "Heeeeey, you ruffians stop that! We're gonna have to help these poor folk get away from those Kitties!" So they lead them across the sea to Chult... where they do 'Chult stuff' 'till this day. (and some how I switched into 'Family Guy Mode' while typing LMAO)

So the real Tabaxi (the people - humans of Tabaxiland) all went to Chult. Well, most. Nearly all. I'll leave that open just in case. The catfolk tabaxi remained, along with groups of others, including some 'tauric' specimens. Most of those, however, went their own way, traveling north through the Utter East and on into the Shaar (and beyond). I have to mention that group, specifically, because they area little TOO different from the others. The Black Leopard lead another group east, in pursuit of the fleeing Raksasha. They had stayed behind to help the genies fight, but when the dgen had no interesting in pursuit, the catfolk left and went after them themselves. This group is sometimes referred to as 'rakasta', but they are a diverse lot, as were the one left in Tabxiland.

Hmmmm... it might be fun to spin the 'Wemics of Old' as the Overseers - slaves themselves, but in charge of the others. Sort of how the centaurs were in Thay. Then we could say it was Wemics who were running the small enclave on the Tabaxiland side of the Gate (a gate which may still exist, and be well-hidden in some ruins, or guarded by one group or another). The ancient animosities should still exist, until this day.

I may have to tinker a bit with the map again (not that i wasn't planning to anyway). I need to save at least a small group of human Tabaxi... unless we just give them their own spot in Tabaxiland, but that means three factions who don't like each other, and then why would the cuotl (I can't spell that!) have left some behind?

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 22 Jan 2018 22:14:56
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Markustay
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USA
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Posted - 22 Jan 2018 :  22:12:32  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
One look at the map and I realized one problem I had solved the other - before those couatls showed up, a bunch of the Tabaxi humans fled to the mainland (Katashaka), and eventually 'went native' there, to be away from the Catfolk. The remainder of the all-human tabaxi went with the Couatls when they arrived (or so they thought - a few Catfolk managed to go as well).

That fixes the stuff I needed to fix with the Rashear Coast (in case you guys haven't noticed, that was lifted whole-cloth from another... oh, wait... NO IT WASN'T!)

Any similarities between how that terrain looks and any other published setting is purely coincidental!

EDIT:
And speaking of the Mulan, Sleyvas - I do have some Mulan, but they are the left side (west coast) of Katshaka, by the desert (how convenient LOL) I placed a Sea Gate around there in my old CKC article, and decided to merge that lore (from Nyambe, originally) with the stuff I had already placed that was in Xendrik (the settlements over there, although one is just a mining camp, really)

This really works out well, since I decided to move those 'Kalashtar' elsewhere, and for a brief period (last night until this morning) I was going to make that the Salt-in-Wounds like city... but now I am going to use Stormwrath itself for that, leaving Arl-Naqat free again for an Egypt-like people. Basically, its a ruin on a ruin on a ruin on a ruin... and not nearly as populated as it size would permit (it could easily be a huge metropolis, but since most of it is ruins, pop.-wise its just a large town, really). Ya know... I may have to place another island over there... I just got another (stolen) idea...

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 23 Jan 2018 16:31:37
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sleyvas
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Posted - 23 Jan 2018 :  12:23:33  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yeah, after I mentioned the idea of "what kind of primordial" would it be and picturing some fungus man just to have some kind of meat... it hit me that it didn't matter I wanted something LIKE Prometheus. Then it hit me further.... Ubtao who is Qotal is a primordial. Ubtao and the nyama-nummo don't like each other (after all, Ubtao stole the Tabaxi, Eshowe, and Thinguth and took them to Chult, and he taught them about matumbe, the forbidden magic ). Ubtao is also missing in the lore now from Chult. ALSO Qotal was missing in Seethyr's lore for Maztica during the Spellplague, so this could work for that, such that he didn't appear amongst them during the spellplague years and thus they didn't sacrifice to him.

So, let's take this a step further... because Seethyr has NONE of the Maztican deities showing up. So, what if when they went to Abeir several of the Maztican gods join together to go down to Katashaka and free the people from the Nyama-Nummo and their barbaric practices. What if all the nyama-nummo though work together and entrap these primordials/Maztican gods (In this, I'm picturing at least Qotal, plus Kiltzi the love goddess, and Watil the plant goddess, and maybe Eha the Wind Sprite, and maybe Nula the goddess of animals)? So, in these lands of the nyama-nummo, again, not picturing any humans remaining. What humans there were over four thousand years ago have been converted to beast humanoids resembling the beings they revere. So, throughout the lands of the nyama-nummo there might be these giant primordials staked out and periodically these various nyama-nummo come along and feast from them. So, the vulture like being Heresa Hesi might fly in and eat Ubtao's liver periodically, while the giant crococdile like Ragarra might come in and spin off Kiltzi's leg and drag it off to eat), while Camazotz the giant bat may fly in and feed on their blood.

While in Abeir, maybe they can't fully function as divine entities, and so they have problems talking to the people of Maztica. This land of the nyama-nummo is a land I'm defining as one only extremely powerful individuals would dare to enter. Its a land of mostly mystery and rumor, a warning tale against venturing too far south. So, even though I'm filling in the far northern portion of Katashaka.... the vast central section won't be known about, and thus the red wizards won't know about these trapped primordials. It might thus become an adventure to "save the gods of the Mazticans" that would be up for development, with each god held in the territory between groups of nyama-nummo and their followers.

Oh, and if we did do at least those three to five primordials (i.e. Ubtao, Kiltzi, Watil, Nula, Eha) then they could all look different. For instance, I have no problem picturing Watil as some kind of giant mixture of mushroom and vines and flowers. I can picture Nula as resembling something LIKE the Nyama-Nummo herself (maybe Eha is as well).... and in fact, maybe that's WHY the other gods came there, because she in fact is one, and she needed their aid to escape, only it entrapped them. It would maybe make sense that the sisters and Qotal band together while the other brothers sit back.

Oh, and just another thought... perhaps Watil is steadily turning the area around her into jungle, and meanwhile where Qotal's blood hits the earth butterflies form. Where Eha's blood hits the earth, hummingbird's and starlings (called rainbow starlings in FR maybe, but picture Hildebrant starlings https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hildebrandt%27s_starling ) form. These hummingbirds and butterflies then go to Watil's jungle and help it spread (maybe there's some kind of thing that if they can "reach" each other that can free each other). Something similar could be done with Kiltzi and Nula (i.e. monkeys and other small animals forming from Nula's blood, maybe Kiltzi's blood makes a female pregnant (and maybe that's being abused), etc..).

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas

Edited by - sleyvas on 23 Jan 2018 12:47:58
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sleyvas
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Posted - 23 Jan 2018 :  13:47:30  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thinking even more on the above, it could well fit that we tie even more of the Maztican deific lore to Katashaka. For instance, I mentioned "maybe Nula and Eha were Nyamma-Numo originally". Well, the original humans of Toril are noted as being from Katashaka roughly. Kukul supposedly created the original humans. What if this "badlands" that is Manu-Ni-Maloa, Land of the Nyama-Numo, was the original homeland of humanity and the land is embodied as Maztica... the earth goddess. Maztica may have been fractured over time (into say the Earthmother of the Moonshaes, Chauntea, Othea, etc....). In fact, both the Abeir-Toril Sundering and the Elven Sundering which broke up Merrobouros may have had something to do with that (each fracturing this deity more and more).

So, where to take this? In the above listing where I listed all these different big monsters that are nyama-nummo, several of them are definitely hinted at as if they are gods that appear elsewhere in Torilian Lore. For instance, Kiga and Ragarra are forgotten gods from Zakhara in Ruined Kingdoms. I had left out the Hippopotamus river deity husband of Ragarra (his name is Shajar) in this, but I'm thinking why not have some areas of Manu-Ni-Maloa that aren't just blatantly evil (and he's not necessarily good). In fact, many of these Nyamma-Numo might be mates (Nula the animal god to the giant ape Kaeng for instance). There could also be the Maztican god Zaltec, appearing as a great jaguar/Kamatlan. Azul may actually live in the ocean as some kind of great sea serpent. Plutoq the stone god may not exist here, and come to find out, he's the son of Maztica with another Primordial much like herself (Grumbar?). This betrayal perhaps happens AFTER the sundering when she's separate entities. Hell, Nobanion may have a Nyama-Nummo form. The entity that's controlled by Bhaal and/or Malar that's known as Kazgoroth the ravager (and represented as a tyrannosaurus rex) may also be such a Nyama-Nummo. There might also be primordial like entities

As a further oddness, maybe each of these Nyamma-Numo have a light and a dark side (similar to Ubtao and Eshowdow). Maybe Nobanion's dark side is what appeared on Toril during the spellplague while his light side transferred to Maztica.

Anyway, so where to take it further.... maybe Manu-Ni-Maloa is a scar upon the land because when Zaltec killed his mother, it affected Katashaka. It killed the land. Oddly enough, maybe this imprisonment of Qotal, Watil, Kiltzi, Eha, and Nula and their bleeding into the land is restoring Maztica (as in the goddess). Maybe even something weird like Plutoq's life's blood must be spilled there (or his heart planted in the soil of some certain place, which he gives to a party to do).

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas

Edited by - sleyvas on 23 Jan 2018 13:53:41
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Markustay
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USA
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Posted - 23 Jan 2018 :  17:43:48  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm still shying away from humans in Katshaka. I have made allowances because I shoe-horned the Razor Coast in the NE corner so I did some human 'natives'. Then I read the Ixalan stuff last night, and while at-first I considered put that in-between the two 'arms' of Lopango (it's a really good fit there), I decided to stay away from Lopango, mostly because others are developing stuff there, but also because I really want to use the Ixalan stuff in Katshaka. Except that means humans again. Maybe. This whole thing is till very-much in a embryo-stage.

The Nyamma-Numo - where are they from? Are those just the Kaiju you talked about awhile back? I had some ideas for that, and then I read the Ixalan stuff: Their 'Elder Dinosaurs' would probably blend with that very well. I have other ideas about Ubtao, so I wouldn't use him. Nothing is set in stone, though.

I'm steering away from the 'great beast getting eaten' thing because I don't want to copy Salt-in-Wounds too directly. I like the concept though, and I am going to spin as I've outlined above (I'll probably even start a very basic outline of the city I am picturing). However, I may still be able to connect everything... not sure yet (my idea of '12 sleeping titans' - I could say that their intellect allowed them to take-over the bodies of 'great beasts' of the Jungle, so that they may keep an eye on the world while their bodies were in stasis). Not sure yet, because I don't have all the pieces in place yet for the setting as a whole.

The Ixalan stuff is very good - I am going to be stealing a LOT of it (except the vampires - no way of making all that work.... probably... maybe...). But that material (upon reading it) lead me to the Zendikar Stuff. I'm going through that now, and although it does have a lot of what I like for Katashaka, I am thinking the setting as a whole really works best for Abeir. Or rather, a place in Abeir. perhaps a landmass that corresponds with Katashaka (so Gates could exist). Still not sure how much I want to steal outright, how much I want to convert, and how much do I want to place 'nearby'. I do want to use Ixalan's more modern, feathered' look to the dinos, which will help keep them separate (re: different) from the ones over in Faerûn (in other words, Katshaka will have even more primitive varieties).

I am allowing for humans at this point, but only along the perimeter of the continent. the interior is far too dangerous for 'mere humans' (non-adventurers). I am also thinking about having the continent's 'threat range' increase dramatically as you travel inward (that should be a given), but not in just the usual D&D sense; I want things to get BIGGER. In other words, the coastal areas might have lots of annoying insects, but as you travel inward, the 'bugs' get bigger, so you would have cat-sized ones, then wolf-sized ones, then ones the size of a hippo, the truly giant varieties, etc. The same would go for everything else - even the trees would get bigger. Thus, the giants would be a natural fit, and work within those confines (you tend to find larger varieties as you move inward). I guess this will cause some sort of 'quest for the center' paradigm, but I haven't worked out what might be there. Probably a primordial (maybe even Ubtao, and maybe he is trapped... we'll see). As soon as have thing better-cemented in-place, I'll be starting a separate thread. I want the foundation laid before I start the brain-storming process.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 24 Jan 2018 06:31:48
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sleyvas
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Posted - 24 Jan 2018 :  02:12:07  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yeah, any humans that I do in Katashaka will only be in the past century, and they'll only be on the coastline. That being said, the northern quarter of the continent, I'm not making "OMG dangerous". Its the center part that will be that. I'm also looking at that island that you're labeling as tabaxiland for my Mulans & Thinguth, but that won't be interacting with Katashaka. I imagine that over the last four thousand years they tried to make inroads in Katashaka, but were constantly rebuffed (or worse, eaten). But some of the gods passed on into their cultures where they fit, even if the missionaries didn't. In fact, maybe the cultures there will be very much afraid to return to Katashaka because they attracted the attention of a nyama-nummo to their homeland. Might even be worth it to have one of the nyama-nummo having settled there and maybe the Thinguth worship it.

On the Great Beast getting eaten... actually, it will be more like "Great Beasts eating Dawn Titans". More like Prometheus tied to the rock with the eagle eating his liver every day (except, its a vulture eating his liver, a giant kind of like displacer beast chewing on his thigh, and a demonic looking bat sucking his blood... and that's just some of the creatures). The servants of the Nyama-Nummo will simply serve as watchers over the trapped entity, and the majority will be back in the home village of their personal nyama-nummo lord. The question becomes how are the dawn titans held down (and presumably over the past century they've grown a lot more weak and haggard looking).

Nyama-Nummo are an invented term of Brian R. James from GHotR. Its the only spot they're mentioned, and one of the few places that also mentions Katashaka. You don't get an exact idea of what a Nyama-Nummo is, such that over time I've kind of developed that I believe its a term to mean "big beast", and thus dinosaurs probably fall into the category as well. Just because the article presents some interesting pieces, I'm going to show it again for dissection.



–2809: Pilgrimage of the Tabaxi
This passage from the Teachings of Ubtao was carved onto thin gold plates and secured deep within the vaults of the Maze of Life, within the ancient city of Mezro.

Though we were anxious, we trusted in the Father to deliver us safely to Chult. Our tribe had never before made a long journey upon the liquid sky. Each hour of paddling took us northward and farther away from Katashaka—our home since the birthing days. Floating in our canoa amid the endless blue, we Tabaxi held faith in Ubtao and his plumed servant Ecatzin. Ubtao hadn’t always been known to our people. Since before the days of my great-grandfather, the Tabaxi had worshiped only Olurobo and his children, the nyama-nummo. In the days before the Great Rending, the Sleeper—greatest of all the nyama-nummo — ruled all the lands of my people. Blessed were the Tabaxi, whom the Sleeper favored above all other tribes. One season, when the Sleeper decided to seek vengeance against an ancient foe, she summoned the greatest warriors of the nine tribes and led them against our enemies in the far land of Mhairshaulk. Our losses must have been great, because her wrath was mighty when she returned. On the Night of
Feasting, four nyama-nummo fell to the Sleeper’s hungry jaws. Finally, her rampage subsided, and she retreated to the Palace of the Alliz-Dren to sleep and recover her strength. Between that long-ago time and now, the Sleeper has awakened twenty-three times, each time more bitter and hungry than the last.

As a babe, I was named Tarasajok, which means She Who Watches over the Sleeper. That title bestowed upon me the great honor of being the first devoured by the Sleeper upon her next awakening. Not long thereafter, Ecatzin entered our lands to spread the word of Ubtao. At first, most Tabaxi shunned the feathered serpent because they feared that he was an agent of Akongo—a perfidious nyama-nummo from the
southern highlands. In time, however, Ecatzin taught words to the Tabaxi— and to a chosen few, he also taught matumbe—the forbidden magic. But the millennium end was nigh upon us, and most still feared the Sleeper’s return.

On the Night of Feasting, Ubtao blessed me and named me Negus Negusti and Bara. But my joy was short-lived. Moments later, the Sleeper’s roar heralded her return, and my legs began to tremble because I was, after all, Tarasajok. But just as the mighty nyama-nummo’s jaws bore down to swallow me whole, I felt the might of Ubtao swell within me. The matumbe flowed from my outstretched hand, striking the Sleeper and stopping her in place. To this day, I still recall the horrible sound of bones snapping when I used the might of Ubtao to crush the life from the Sleeper. Upon witnessing the power that Ubtao had bestowed upon his Bara, my Tabaxi brothers and sisters kissed and embraced me, cheering and pledging their devotion to Ubtao. Ecatzin smiled and told us that we were Ubtao’s blessed children. We soon prepared for a great pilgrimage across the endless blue to Chult, the home of Ubtao. On the day of departure, I whispered a silent prayer to the spirits of Katashaka, beseeching them to watch over those who remained behind.

When the shores of my homeland had at last slipped silently away into the thickening fog behind us, I turned to Ecatzin and spoke. “The current is swift, and we are three hundred canoa strong,” I said. “Take us to Chult, friend Ecatzin, and into the mighty arms of the Father. There the enemies of the Tabaxi shall know fear, because I am Oyai, Slayer of the Sleeper, First Bara of Ubtao, and long shall I rule!”


From this, we get quite a few terms that we have to guess at their meaning.

nyama-nummo - my interpretation ... large beast. So, it could mean dinosaur, tarrasque, gargantuan ape, Godzilla, Rodan, etc..

matumbe, the forbidden magic - I've wondered on this a lot, but I finally settled on clerical magic (or the magic of the estelar). I am differentiating this from say other divine magic. For instance, the Priestess, Ancient World Divine Class can use clerical spells. However, they only get them by sacrificing to their deity, and not just for praying. So, Matumbe is magic given for simple prayer.

the Sleeper - some kind of tarrasque like being. It is called a SHE, so this MIGHT be the mother of "the" tarrasque.

palace of the Alliz-dren the place where the sleeper (a tarrasque) sleeps to regain its strength. What is the Alliz-dren though? No clue.

Olurobo - father of the nyama-nummo... maybe Kukul? More likely Ourobouros. However, it should be noted that the enemy of this culture is "the land of Mhairshaulk". that being said, guessing I shouldn't list "Mhairshaulk" the giant serpent as one of the nyama-nummo then... and maybe deep in the jungles of Mhairshaulk is a giant sleeping snake Kaiju.

Great Rending - assuming this is EITHER the Abeir-Toril Sundering OR the Elven Sundering. However, it could have been as simple as Lopango used to connect to Katashaka at one point and the two continents separated (or that which connected them simply disappeared).

canoa - presumably some kind of boat which can handle the seas.. probably not a canoe, but more like an outrigger canoe where there are two or three canoes with a flat platform connecting them and a mast with a few sails.

We also know that there are "southern highlands", and I pretty much chose to make this a giant chain of mountains to the south separating the bottom quarter of the continent from the top. Then I also made a personal decision to also have a "northern highlands" mountain chain, and thus the nyama-numo and their followers fill up middle of the continent.In these southern highlands there's some kind of "treacherous" or "deceptive" nyama-nummo named Akongo. Hmmm, I hadn't paid close attention to that name, maybe a play on words to King Kong? Works for me, and I guess I have another giant ape now.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Markustay
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Posted - 24 Jan 2018 :  07:42:33  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Okay, I would say 'the Sleeper' is DEFINITELY the Terrasque. That makes perfect sense (in Eberron, he is also said to be sleeping in Xen'drik, so more fuel for my Juton-Mangu {Giant Marches} theories - the Terrasque embodies the primal power of Savage Lands).

Nyama-Nuumo I would say are just dinosaurs, although there could be a few Kaiju as well. I only say this last part because you forgot...

Akongo, who just has to be king Kong. The 'southern Highlands' thing is a bit problematic, because the furthest south reaches go into a cold area, not jungle. But then again, our Akongo doesn't have to live in a jungle at all, because he is NOT King Kong. He could be something more akin to a giant Yeti. In fact, I might prefer that, so he doesn't just scream 'Kong' (even though his name already literally does).

Palace of the Alliz-dren - I am guessing its an antideluvian (pre-Sundering) structure that the Titans used. Hell, it could have been their version of a 'dog house'. This was a GREAT find - I forgot about this vingette, and I can SO use this.

The stuff concerning Katshaka and all that is gonna mess with my own lore, but I can probably work it all out. I have it where the Tabaki (people) came from tabaxiland, not Katshaka, but I can fudge stuff (after all, they're right next to each other).

Olurobo becomes somewhat problematic, because if the Nyama-Nuumo are indeed dinosaurs like I think they are, then this has to be Ubtao himself. Ubtao is called the father of dinosaurs. EXCEPT... we have an out. Olurobo is female (it says "her hungry jaws")I have since realized I got the Sleeper mixed-up with its parent, so this isn't right... but we could fudge it anyway, UNLESS you want Olurobo to be Ubtao... not sure how that works out. And where there's a Father, there has to be a mother, which she is. That's Ubtao's mate (and she might also be Lamashtu, who I think is also Tiamat... and I can SO run with that). Probably ex-wife, considering how they don't get along. Poor dino's - they all come from a broken home.

He probably caught her with Eshadow... betrayed by your own shadow and wife. Now I feel sorrow for Ubtao.
Can't blame her, though. Its like Shar says - "once you go Shadow, you never go back".

Great Rending - I think this should have been the Elven Sundering, but I actually think the Elven one IS the First Sundering ("reached backwards and forwards in time"), so its really all the same thing. It would have been when the Merrouroboros (FR's Pangea) split apart. Note the name BTW - its a contraction of Merrshaulk (Mhairshaulk) and Oroborous (world serpent); I'm not sure if it appears in the published GHotR, but it was in Brian's original. That was probably the Sarrukh name for the pre-Sundered continent.

Matumbe is probably just a way of using RAW magic, as opposed to Arcane (Weave) magic, and is probably related to Hishna and Pluma magics (which are not Weave-based). All these types of magic should work equally well on Abeir (which is why the natives in Maztica would have had far less problems than the Amnians and others, and it might not even be the first time this sort of thing has happened). Personally, I'd spin it as something akin to VooDoo.

In the island chains I placed north of Katshaka, there is a group of natives on the Mokalonni Islands that are very Hawaiian in culture. They claim at one point they had a mighty empire, and that they were more sophisticated, and this may be somewhat true (they're half-elves, and the elves definitely had a more sophisticated culture in the Tanjari Islands directly to the west, until they were driven out hundreds of years ago by the corsairs). Regardless, they still use Outriggers, and they even have some large, fairly sophisticated ones (think the culture from the recent Moana movie - JUST like that). So there you go - I already had 'canoa' placed.

The human half of their ancestry I want to link to a fallen empire in Lopango, not Maztica or Tabaxiland (because if I make them half-drow like I'm considering doing, then its black-on-black, which isn't going to give me what I want - I was looking for something a bit more 'Golden'). Its all still in its very early stages, and I am now thinking of going back to regular elves on the islands; there were regular elves as well as drow slaves of the Giants, but the regular elves all left (so who's to say they didn't just settle right off the coast there?)

I guess it all depends on what was happening in Lopango - what have you guys done there? I think I might be better off just avoiding any part of Maztica (I though Lopango safe, but perhaps not).

Have you looked at the Ixalan stuff, Sleyvas? Their concept of 'Elder Dinosaurs' meshes beautifully with the Nyama-Nummo, and they even have a 'Golden City' of Orazca, which could work for a city around the Palace of Alliz-Dren.

Lastly, make your Kaiju-dino serpent (Nyama-Nummo) Yig from the Cthulhu mythos. Lovecraft got his inspirations for him from both Quetzalcoatl and Set - it doesn't get better than that. Especially since I plan on using my own version of Robert E. Howard's Serpent men (they worship Yig).

Set = Zehir = Zaltec (Maz) = Quetzalcoatl = Yig - they're all just different aspects of the Set archtype (or could it be the Seth archtype?) Yig is just a primal aspect - all the 'Elder Beasts' should be savage aspects of other powers.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 24 Jan 2018 07:46:15
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Markustay
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Posted - 24 Jan 2018 :  08:19:01  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yeah, the more I look at it, the more it seems Olurobo was just their name for Ubtao, before they went to Chult.

I definitely want to use the six 'Elder dinosaurs' of Ixilan. Add in a couple more kaiju (like Akonga and Yig) and we can have like 9-12. I think Zaltec would best be served by one of those double-headed serpents (Tlalocoatl) Seethyr was talking about earlier (thus we get both the cat and draconic aspects in one creature).

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone

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sleyvas
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Posted - 24 Jan 2018 :  12:53:44  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well, one thing to consider as well, regarding "continental Katashaka" and "Lopango/Maztica/Anchorome" and "that big island to the right of Katashaka that you're calling Tabaxiland" and even "those big islands ABOVE Anchorome" is that they may have been connected at some point (and they may have separated into their pieces at different times mind you) . The Tabaxi, Eshowe, and Thinguth leave "Katashaka" in -2809 DR. However SOMETHING happened in 987 DR. We think of it as confined to a certain area, but we truly don't know the implications of the Rockfire Disaster in 987 DR. We DO know that it has some ties to Zaltec and his drow priests refer to it as Darkfyre (and in theory, maybe these drow were worshipping and offering sacrifices to a volcano extension of Zaltec.... or NOT making the necessary sacrifices to quell aforementioned... and thus the explosion that forced them to Maztica). So, perhaps Katashaka and that island WERE connected up until about 500 years ago. Either the island was pushed away OR there's a whole civilization that dropped into the ocean between the two (maybe its mere feet from the surface of the water, and maybe at points you can see pyramids sticking out of the water, the tops of some hills, etc...). Oh, and of course, wild seacats (what used to be called "sea lions" but were renamed to stop confusion) love to swim in this area, darting between houses playfully as they work together to catch and eat sharks and sahuagin that venture too close. Maybe the ocean is generally calm in this area as well since its not very deep, and thus the surface is dotted with fishing vessels. So, in this idea, BOTH places are technically "Katashaka". This could really be interesting as well, because that section that "fell in the water" would have been a part of Manu-Ni-Maloa, land of the nyama-nummo, in what I'm picturing of the central portion of Katashaka... and the size of land that may have fallen into the ocean would have been the size of maybe Calimshan, Amn, and Tethyr all together. There may be several nyama-nummo whose "kingdoms" and dead bodies lie beneath the waves, but whose spirits live on..... and there may even be a giant sea cat corresponding to the god "water lion".


987 DR Year of the Flaming Dwarf
Rockfire: Deep within the tunnels under the Trackless Sea [418, 1358], an expedition of dwarf miners is ambushed by drow. During the ensuing conflict a deep core fissure erupts, vomiting a deadly river of magma into the gallery. Both sides take substantial casualties with only a handful of survivors. Separated from mainland Faerûn and each believing their enemy destroyed, the drow and dwarf exiles undertake an epic journey through the Underdark to the west. When they finally emerge onto the surface, the dwarves find themselves amid the harshest desert imaginable, the Sands of Itzcala in Maztica. The drow
emerge farther south, within the foothills of the Axapoztlan Range.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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sleyvas
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Posted - 24 Jan 2018 :  13:07:08  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Seethyr,

Hey, I'm looking at your "Grand History of the True World", and I noticed the part of Shar trying to steal Qotal's power.... Qotal and Zaltec temporarily aligning to stop her... and then Qotal showing that he's fallible when he rapes his sister Kiltzi.... anyway, one of the things in Tomb of Annihilation is that there's an Atropal involved. I know you didn't make up the part about Qotal and Kiltzi, as that's canon (and I'm trying to treat your GHotTW as such as well), but I wanted your thoughts... what do you think of the idea that that atropal is the "lovechild" of Qotal and Kiltzi? Also, if it is an Atropal, what would you say as to why it wasn't born? I'm kind of thinking to go with "Kiltzi turned to Zaltec to use Hishna magic to kill the child in the womb".... and maybe this act has haunted the goddess of love and childbirth ever since.


–2225 DR: Diamond Eyes
In the guise of a beautiful mortal woman known only as “Diamond Eyes,” Shar tricks Qotal into giving away some of his divinity. Qotal seeks aid from his hated brother Zaltec and together they easily recover his stolen power. Once the battle is over, the alliance ends as quickly as it began. Qotal is given a vision of his sister Kiltzi in which he recognizes her resemblance to Diamond Eyes and he lusts for her.
–1106 DR: Qotal’s Seduction
For more than a thousand years after his vision of Kiltzi, Qotal observed mankind’s love and play and he grew increasingly jealous. The seed of lust Shar had placed in his mind germinated until he could no longer deny it. Against her wishes, Qotal took his sister Kiltzi and proceeded to fall into a deep slumber. The darkest rumors claim that a child was born of this union, but no evidence of the rumor’s
veracity can be found.

–1105 DR
Kiltzi flees to her brother Zaltec in shame along with her sisters Watil and Nula. Terrible droughts, plagues and natural disasters decimate mankind as Qotal continues to slumber.
–1095 DR
A majority of the human race also turns to Zaltec who demands tens of thousands of sacrifices. The droughts and famine end as the gods once again begin performing their duties.

–812 DR: Departure of the Feathered Dragon
Qotal finally awakens after centuries of slumber to a land all but dominated by the worship of crueler gods. He attempts to punish mankind by taking their speech, but his power is no longer what it once was and only his few remaining priests comply. Qotal begins a self-imposed exile, though he leaves the Prophecy of the Cloak of One Plume to indicate when he would return to the shores of the eastern land of Payit. Two massive faces are carved into a rocky bluff where Qotal sets off on brightly feathered canoe by his remaining worshipers. These faces become known as the Twin Visages.


Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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sleyvas
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Posted - 24 Jan 2018 :  14:29:48  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Something else came to mind when I was getting ready for work, and I wanted to jot this down real quick. So, one of Seethyr's premises for the Lopango is that there were these sorcerous orcs that come from "the northern nations of Katashaka". ALSO, these orcs seemingly appeared in Katashaka just twenty years after the time of the Rockfire Disaster. So, throwing out some ideas here....

A) What if the "Darkfyre" was empowering both Zaltec AND Tezca.
B) what if the Sleeper IS Zaltec, and the Rockfire Disaster was his awakening
C) what if the "sorcerous orcs" were the remnants of the human Tabaxi civilization who had left to follow Qotal in Chult (and some of whom had left after being changed into cat folk named tabaxi and settled in Far Payit). I specify Tabaxi, since it is the sleeper that assaults them.
D) what if since Zaltec is already known for turning humans into orcs... (i.e. when he turned thousands of humans into orcs during the night of wailing), these "sorcerous orcs" WERE humans.
E) What if these humans had turned from the worship of both Zaltec and Tezca, and they were accepting the worship of their northern brothers Intiri and Qotal (and Qotal, Intiri, and many of the good Maztican gods had all retreated to Maztica)
F) So, these humans are punished by Zaltec and Tezca, turned into orcs, some into hags and uthraki (my own reasons for that), and they kill the followers of Intiri and Qotal amongst them.
G) So, these sorcerous orcs are followers of Tezca (god of the sun and fire) who have a huge hate on for the Natican people who worship Intiri (god of the sun).
H) their empire fell beneath the waves, and their people are force to Lopango (orcs) or into the jungles of Katashaka (hags and uthraki).... and maybe the hags and uthraki are actually followers of Watil and Nula who were also punished.

From The Grand History of the True World
1001 DR Year of the Awakening
Powerful and sorcerous orcs from the southern continent Katashaka flee to Lopango’s jungles after many of their slave races rebel. This occurs in conjunction with the awakening of a being known as The Sleeper (the dreaded Tarrasque), who also demolishes the orc civilization. They reestablish themselves in Lopango and with the help of their lizard-like cayma slaves, wipe out all of the jungle settlements of other races. The orcs are finally contained within the jungle by the Natican Sun-Priests.


From Lopango, Land of the Sacred Sun (which is non-canon mind you and from DM's Guild, but I'm accepting it as such)
[i]Though they are not the most recent transplant to Lopango, the jungle orcs are certainly one of the most aggressive. Having long ago found an affinity for sorcery within their blood, these unusual orcs held a powerful empire in the northern nations of Katashaka. Like so many great civilizations, the orcs grew decadent and reliant on their slaves. They still commanded great power, but understood little of the day to day maintenance of their empire.

When a being known to some as The Sleeper, and to others as the dreaded Tarrasque, awoke from a hundred year slumber and decimated the orc civilization; opportunistic slaves rose up and rebelled against their abusive masters. The orcs were forced to flee to the lands of Lopango bringing only their ever loyal cayma along.

The orcs soon encountered others in Lopango’s jungles, including small clans of scorpionfolk and the settlements of the sun worshiping humans known as Natican. War was inevitable with both. If the Natican and the scorpionfolk had been allies, the orcs would not have stood a chance, but as fate would have it, these two races themselves were hardly at peace. Even still, it was the guerilla tactics and deadly ambushes of their cayma slaves that won the jungle for the orcs.

The orcs only briefly attempted to continue their way into the mountains as powerful sun priests from the holy city of Pichu Umu rained destruction on the orcs. Satisfied with a stalemate and content to digest their new “empire,” the orcs retreated. Six years after the last major skirmishes, the orcs were set upon by yet another race, though they jokingly call this day the “Gift from Below.” Embattled drow, refugees from their own war with the scorpionfolk in the Underdark, simply appeared amid orc lands one day. With their vast numbers, still potent sorcery and ever useful cayma allies; the orcs humiliated and enslaved the drow.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Markustay
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Posted - 24 Jan 2018 :  18:02:49  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
First off, I can't believe you found a way to make incestuous rape even DARKER. I think Maztica has become even darker than what I am imagining for Katshaka (so much for the whole 'Dark Continent' thing lol). I'm going to have to pick through Jurgen and Seethyr's stuff about Lopango. I was really hoping to be ale to use at least a small piece of it, but instead I'm finding I may have to adapt to their material instead. I would have loved to port-in Ixalan there between the two arms of Lopango, but I can see thats not going to be doable. I'll just cherry-pick from it instead.

Second, I don't really see the 'Darkfire Disaster' as being anything more than localized. At least, not as currently written. Sure, we could exaggerate it, but I don't think that was the original intent (basically, turning it into a ripple of a bigger event). Not that we can't do that, but we should at least come up with a really great story-line for a KSE. I have tons of 'pieces' I want to plunk down in Kata, but I haven't really melded them altogether yet (some, but not all). The ToT should have had a major effect on the Mazshakas (my FR term for 'The Americas') as well, as should have the fall of Netheril (anything planet-wide should be incorporated into our timelines).

As for the 'Elder Beasts' concept. I think you (Sleyvas) and I should merge our ideas. I want something like that, but I was going in a somewhat different direction than you, but I think the two are reconcilable. My idea is that the 'Sleepers' (not THE sleeper... guess I'll have to change my name to avoid confusion, dammit) under Stormwrath are somehow mentally controlling the Elder Beasts, or at least, have managed to take control of them every so often. Now, if they are Primatars (New term! Savage, PRIMAL avatars of Gods that have bestial leanings), it could be that the Gods behind them ignore them most of the time (after all, they are supposed to just be rampaging beasts most of the time). Also, Some of those Gods - like the ones from Zakhara - may have 'fallen off' and can no longer exert control, because their own power is practically gone.

Thus, if we think of these things as dinosaur(Kaiju) versions of OE's Manifestations/Incarnations, then perhaps when left to their own devices my guys (the 'Sleepers'... 'Dreamers'? UGH... that has some RW connotations now... Damn you, real world! {shakes fist at sky}) can exert control, but it is VERY taxing so they don't do it too often (in fact, most of them haven't done it in many centuries). The Dreamers are the 12 (number could change) Titans in stasis beneath Stormwrath, that are now being 'mined' by various nefarious organizations. The city is a giant ruin - a HUGE one (think Waterdeep, but everything is at least triple-sized), except that there seems to be 12 'hills' in the city that cover some of the ruins. people know the hills must have come later, because some of the ruins are now half-buried because of them. On top of these hills 12 factions have setup bases of operations (one is now defunct... I think), so what you have is a city that is mostly giant ruins, with 12 normal-sized settlements on hills, with the giant-ruins in between the hills, and lots of people now also live in those ruins (converted to fit their size). I want the population to be VERY cosmopolitan. I already have three sea-Gates placed nearby, and I am considering two more (so the area becomes a 'world trade hub', much like what happened to the Caribbean here on Earth, but to a MUCH larger extent). Most of that would have happened in the past century; before the Spellplague the region was just a pirate-infested area with a couple of 'enclaves' of certain other continents (mostly Shou and Zakharan, but the Mulan had a base here in the past). After the appearance of Laerakond where Maztica was, trade with the new kingdoms began, and soon an entire economy flourished in a once mostly-ignored region of the world. There was some settlers in Stormwrath then, but it was a diverse bunch of groups who kept to themselves, and the place didn't even have a name. After the discovery of The Dreamers, a bunch of power-groups moved in, and in the past century the place became something of a boom-town. It has one of the most diverse populations seen anywhere (even Spelljammers - which DO land here on occasion - are impressed. Its basically Mos Eisley taken to whole 'nother level). And YES, there will be Jawas.

Then the Sundering (2.0) happened, and Laerakond went away, and Maztica came back. At first Amn was the only nation that welcomed that change, but they soon learned they no longer had control in Maztica, so even they are regretting its reappearance. In the interim, the groups that had established enclaves/bases in the region still want a reason for their existence, so they have been 'selling' Katashaka as a new adventuring region for those who are 'not faint of heart'. Several of them have even been giving large donations to the Wayfarer's Guild.* Plus, there is Stormwrath itself, with its none-too-well-guarded secrets.

Another very big reason interest has now peaked, rather than declined, is the new 'planer instability' in the region. What most people don't realize is that this is actually the 'normal' condition of Katashaka (the Shou & Zakharans know it, but they don't share information). That katashaka had always been like this - with vast ruins 'coming & going', and sometimes even moving around (the same 'time & movement' anomalies Xen'Drik suffers under), and even groups of strange beings appearing every so often, only to disappear again later on. What the Spellplagued century did was actually stabilize Katashaka, and that's the great mystery many have come to learn about. What may have gone to Abeir, and now has 'returned', that has brought this strange cosmic phenomena with it?

Lastly, I think Seethyr's take on 'ebil orcs from Katshaka' is directly related to the old Nyambe stuff, which was the recommended setting for use with Katashaka. I'm going to have to rethink a few things if we are going to keep that.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 24 Jan 2018 18:10:31
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Markustay
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Posted - 24 Jan 2018 :  18:51:33  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I just realized there already is a term for those Celestial Titans I've been calling 'Jotuns' - Empyreans. That's rather interesting, considering other things I've been looking at (New Empyrea). So anyhow, the 'sleepers' are really Empyreans, but the folks who know about think they are just regular (terrestrial) titans (which isn't such a small deal unto itself, mind you). 'Jotun' just becomes a pantheon-specific name for those Planer Giants (and I say 'giants', rather than just 'titans', because I am then extending the term to blend it with Pathfinder a bit). So a Jotun is an Empyrean, but something Jotun-blooded is basically a planetouched giant.

However, one hill has been destroyed. Somehow, about 20 years ago, one of the Empyreans got free - Sylla (Syllia). She escaped into the jungle, and hasn't been heard from since (She has been working behind-the-scenes, trying to free her brethren, even going so far as to travel to other worlds. She was involved with the Egg of Phoenix, trying to covertly retrieve the artifact for herself, so as to use it in her plans to free the other Empyreans). Being the 'Titan of Love' (see the 2e Monstrous Manual, as well as her appearance in the EoP adventure), she is not about fighting, so direct confrontation is not her strong suit. Thus, she requires allies (and/or artifacts) to achieve her goals. Her unique set of powers did allow her break free though, by casting an illusion of her waking, and begging one of her 'caretakers' to free her. The man fell in love with her, and betrayed his fellows to free her - I've yet to develop this plothook any further). Her Kaiju form is that of a HUGE feathered titanosaur Argentinosaurus huinculensis, and by bringing it fairly close to Stormwrath, she was able to cast her illusions and get her physical form free.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 24 Jan 2018 18:53:23
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sleyvas
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Posted - 25 Jan 2018 :  01:58:13  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

First off, I can't believe you found a way to make incestuous rape even DARKER. I think Maztica has become even darker than what I am imagining for Katshaka (so much for the whole 'Dark Continent' thing lol). I'm going to have to pick through Jurgen and Seethyr's stuff about Lopango. I was really hoping to be ale to use at least a small piece of it, but instead I'm finding I may have to adapt to their material instead. I would have loved to port-in Ixalan there between the two arms of Lopango, but I can see thats not going to be doable. I'll just cherry-pick from it instead.

Second, I don't really see the 'Darkfire Disaster' as being anything more than localized. At least, not as currently written. Sure, we could exaggerate it, but I don't think that was the original intent (basically, turning it into a ripple of a bigger event). Not that we can't do that, but we should at least come up with a really great story-line for a KSE. I have tons of 'pieces' I want to plunk down in Kata, but I haven't really melded them altogether yet (some, but not all). The ToT should have had a major effect on the Mazshakas (my FR term for 'The Americas') as well, as should have the fall of Netheril (anything planet-wide should be incorporated into our timelines).

As for the 'Elder Beasts' concept. I think you (Sleyvas) and I should merge our ideas. I want something like that, but I was going in a somewhat different direction than you, but I think the two are reconcilable. My idea is that the 'Sleepers' (not THE sleeper... guess I'll have to change my name to avoid confusion, dammit) under Stormwrath are somehow mentally controlling the Elder Beasts, or at least, have managed to take control of them every so often. Now, if they are Primatars (New term! Savage, PRIMAL avatars of Gods that have bestial leanings), it could be that the Gods behind them ignore them most of the time (after all, they are supposed to just be rampaging beasts most of the time). Also, Some of those Gods - like the ones from Zakhara - may have 'fallen off' and can no longer exert control, because their own power is practically gone.

Thus, if we think of these things as dinosaur(Kaiju) versions of OE's Manifestations/Incarnations, then perhaps when left to their own devices my guys (the 'Sleepers'... 'Dreamers'? UGH... that has some RW connotations now... Damn you, real world! {shakes fist at sky}) can exert control, but it is VERY taxing so they don't do it too often (in fact, most of them haven't done it in many centuries). The Dreamers are the 12 (number could change) Titans in stasis beneath Stormwrath, that are now being 'mined' by various nefarious organizations. The city is a giant ruin - a HUGE one (think Waterdeep, but everything is at least triple-sized), except that there seems to be 12 'hills' in the city that cover some of the ruins. people know the hills must have come later, because some of the ruins are now half-buried because of them. On top of these hills 12 factions have setup bases of operations (one is now defunct... I think), so what you have is a city that is mostly giant ruins, with 12 normal-sized settlements on hills, with the giant-ruins in between the hills, and lots of people now also live in those ruins (converted to fit their size). I want the population to be VERY cosmopolitan. I already have three sea-Gates placed nearby, and I am considering two more (so the area becomes a 'world trade hub', much like what happened to the Caribbean here on Earth, but to a MUCH larger extent). Most of that would have happened in the past century; before the Spellplague the region was just a pirate-infested area with a couple of 'enclaves' of certain other continents (mostly Shou and Zakharan, but the Mulan had a base here in the past). After the appearance of Laerakond where Maztica was, trade with the new kingdoms began, and soon an entire economy flourished in a once mostly-ignored region of the world. There was some settlers in Stormwrath then, but it was a diverse bunch of groups who kept to themselves, and the place didn't even have a name. After the discovery of The Dreamers, a bunch of power-groups moved in, and in the past century the place became something of a boom-town. It has one of the most diverse populations seen anywhere (even Spelljammers - which DO land here on occasion - are impressed. Its basically Mos Eisley taken to whole 'nother level). And YES, there will be Jawas.

Then the Sundering (2.0) happened, and Laerakond went away, and Maztica came back. At first Amn was the only nation that welcomed that change, but they soon learned they no longer had control in Maztica, so even they are regretting its reappearance. In the interim, the groups that had established enclaves/bases in the region still want a reason for their existence, so they have been 'selling' Katashaka as a new adventuring region for those who are 'not faint of heart'. Several of them have even been giving large donations to the Wayfarer's Guild.* Plus, there is Stormwrath itself, with its none-too-well-guarded secrets.

Another very big reason interest has now peaked, rather than declined, is the new 'planer instability' in the region. What most people don't realize is that this is actually the 'normal' condition of Katashaka (the Shou & Zakharans know it, but they don't share information). That katashaka had always been like this - with vast ruins 'coming & going', and sometimes even moving around (the same 'time & movement' anomalies Xen'Drik suffers under), and even groups of strange beings appearing every so often, only to disappear again later on. What the Spellplagued century did was actually stabilize Katashaka, and that's the great mystery many have come to learn about. What may have gone to Abeir, and now has 'returned', that has brought this strange cosmic phenomena with it?

Lastly, I think Seethyr's take on 'ebil orcs from Katshaka' is directly related to the old Nyambe stuff, which was the recommended setting for use with Katashaka. I'm going to have to rethink a few things if we are going to keep that.



We're going down similar paths again. In an earlier article about a year back, I had supposed a what if some of the nyama-nummo were actually powerful humans who were taking over powerful beings via dream magics. Thus, the tarrasque noted as "the sleeper" would just be a mortal "avatar" for them. However, the fact that the tarrasque is noted as having gotten so fed up that it killed 4 nyama-nummo in his rage tells me that the nyama-nummo SHOULD be "large beast"... with dinosaurs being predominant... but also dire animals, rocs, gargantuan apes, "lesser" dragons, wyverns, hakuna (aka Dragonne), behirs, remorhaz, purple worms, bulettes, etc...

In fact, as I reread some of what I have written up for the Oslander Islands, I had written up that basically long ago it was the tribal shamans that were calling upon the power of the na'amnumoans, or powerful spirit beasts from the "land of nightmares". So, maybe long ago the "high priests" were summoning the god's to inhabit beings that were "born from nightmare". BTW, my Osse and Katashaka are intimately tied (basically Osse is a portion of the copy of Katashaka (or should I say Merrobouros) that was created when Abeir was created, but at some point, it somehow was wrenched back from there and put on the other side of the world).

However, after writing things up and leaving, my mind started wandering down that path again. Only, it was thinking more along the lines of "man... the sleeper COULD be Zaltec... and his mortal avatar is a tarrasque". Of course, then my mind started playing through the could Zaltec be Vaprak (since he turned humans into ogres and trolls, as well as orcs)... or is he Malar (since he has strong ties to hunting cats like Jaguars, and a strong bloodlust) or Gruumsh (with the ties to orcs). I think between the three, he resembles Vaprak more, but then if Othea is an aspect of Maztica... yeah, nasty. I don't think I want to do that though.... but I wouldn't mind him being a "rogue" orc/ogre god that doesn't report to Gruumsh or Vaprak.

Anyway, this fits with the idea that I was going with where there a multiple gigantic beings that are worshipped. If these beings are the "mortal avatars" of gods, then they may be immortal. Hell, they may be the offspring of gods (i.e. the gargantuan displacer beast/Kamadan like cat with the name Kee'gah is the offspring of Kiga the predator, which is of bestial intelligence except when inhabited by its godly parent).

I do like the idea you have of some ruins that are giant sized. I was going to put an island and have death giants on it. However, given the idea of spirit worship in Katashaka.... I think it'd be cool to have multiple clans of death giants throughout Manu-Ni-Maloa. I'm also thinking it would be cool to put shadow giants there as well. This way neither is Annam's brood.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas

Edited by - sleyvas on 25 Jan 2018 02:08:41
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Markustay
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Posted - 25 Jan 2018 :  02:31:20  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Eberron uses giant ruins all over the place, as does Pathfinder's Golarion. If any setting should have some, it should be FR's (and I've managed to steal Eberron's - whole cloth - without really stealing them!) Neat trick, huh?

The best part about that is, if your a particularly nasty (or creative) DM, you could have them enter the ruins, and have it shift while they are in them, so that when the exit again, They're not in Kansas anymore (or perhaps, they ARE in Kansas!)

I don't think I want so many kaiju running around - it starts to become comical. Definitely one insect one (I am thinking HUGE spider, or Scorpion), and definitely one Avian (a Niven-Roc, like Rodan). I wanted the 'Six Great Beasts' to all be dinos, but truthfully, the Ixalan stuff only details three, so that leaves us an out. We could have Giant prehistoic 'cats', etc. So in other words, I was thinking six Dinos, and six non-Dinos (we already have Akonga as one), which doesn't leave us a lot of play. A giant crab and giant squid/octopus would also be cool.

You know, with the Warforged also in the region... GIANT ones, at that... it wouldn't be too hard to do a Pacific Rim kind of thing here. Too bad I hate 'giant robots' (except for Gigantor - that was the first cartoon I ever truly loved as a child. Don't ask me why).

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 25 Jan 2018 02:33:16
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Seethyr
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Posted - 25 Jan 2018 :  21:31:47  Show Profile  Visit Seethyr's Homepage Send Seethyr a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

Seethyr,

Hey, I'm looking at your "Grand History of the True World", and I noticed the part of Shar trying to steal Qotal's power.... Qotal and Zaltec temporarily aligning to stop her... and then Qotal showing that he's fallible when he rapes his sister Kiltzi.... anyway, one of the things in Tomb of Annihilation is that there's an Atropal involved. I know you didn't make up the part about Qotal and Kiltzi, as that's canon (and I'm trying to treat your GHotTW as such as well), but I wanted your thoughts... what do you think of the idea that that atropal is the "lovechild" of Qotal and Kiltzi? Also, if it is an Atropal, what would you say as to why it wasn't born? I'm kind of thinking to go with "Kiltzi turned to Zaltec to use Hishna magic to kill the child in the womb".... and maybe this act has haunted the goddess of love and childbirth ever since.


–2225 DR: Diamond Eyes
In the guise of a beautiful mortal woman known only as “Diamond Eyes,” Shar tricks Qotal into giving away some of his divinity. Qotal seeks aid from his hated brother Zaltec and together they easily recover his stolen power. Once the battle is over, the alliance ends as quickly as it began. Qotal is given a vision of his sister Kiltzi in which he recognizes her resemblance to Diamond Eyes and he lusts for her.
–1106 DR: Qotal’s Seduction
For more than a thousand years after his vision of Kiltzi, Qotal observed mankind’s love and play and he grew increasingly jealous. The seed of lust Shar had placed in his mind germinated until he could no longer deny it. Against her wishes, Qotal took his sister Kiltzi and proceeded to fall into a deep slumber. The darkest rumors claim that a child was born of this union, but no evidence of the rumor’s
veracity can be found.

–1105 DR
Kiltzi flees to her brother Zaltec in shame along with her sisters Watil and Nula. Terrible droughts, plagues and natural disasters decimate mankind as Qotal continues to slumber.
–1095 DR
A majority of the human race also turns to Zaltec who demands tens of thousands of sacrifices. The droughts and famine end as the gods once again begin performing their duties.

–812 DR: Departure of the Feathered Dragon
Qotal finally awakens after centuries of slumber to a land all but dominated by the worship of crueler gods. He attempts to punish mankind by taking their speech, but his power is no longer what it once was and only his few remaining priests comply. Qotal begins a self-imposed exile, though he leaves the Prophecy of the Cloak of One Plume to indicate when he would return to the shores of the eastern land of Payit. Two massive faces are carved into a rocky bluff where Qotal sets off on brightly feathered canoe by his remaining worshipers. These faces become known as the Twin Visages.





It's funny how much we think alike, way back when I wrote Diamond Eyes I had thought about that. To be honest, I shied away from it because of the subject matter. Yes, there should be an atropal out there somewhere.

I had also thought to have Kiltzi birth the 400 Drunken Rabbits and bring them to Maztica as a divine sort of nature spirit, but I might use a less controversial scenario for them.

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Seethyr
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Posted - 25 Jan 2018 :  21:36:43  Show Profile  Visit Seethyr's Homepage Send Seethyr a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

Eberron uses giant ruins all over the place, as does Pathfinder's Golarion. If any setting should have some, it should be FR's (and I've managed to steal Eberron's - whole cloth - without really stealing them!) Neat trick, huh?




There is a lot of giant lore in actual Aztec myth. I attempted to develop an outcast clan of stone giants cursed by the gods (they fled the battles with Garyx ages ago). They also grew greedy and began to worship gold and neglect the Lopangan gods that has shown them mercy. These Gold-Clad-Giant-Kings have a Midas touch like ability that can polymorph others into iron pyrite (fool's gold).

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Seethyr
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Posted - 25 Jan 2018 :  21:52:22  Show Profile  Visit Seethyr's Homepage Send Seethyr a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas



A) What if the "Darkfyre" was empowering both Zaltec AND Tezca.


Each of the lakes outside of Mount Zatal are related to one of the brother gods. I think the lakes formed as a sort of an antibody to Zaltec's growing power - even Tezca couldn't have been too happy with Zaltec's command of the empire of Nexal. He was becoming a dominant deity in the True World.

In the future (very soon actually), I am working the Darkfire to be a manifestation of power that Zaltec stole from Maztica herself. When Zaltec beheaded Maztica, I had him take her heart and place it in a cavern deep under Zatal. This festering boil is what is making the mountain grow each year (it is growing canonically).

quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas


B) what if the Sleeper IS Zaltec, and the Rockfire Disaster was his awakening



I'm not sure if I am quoting canon here, but I think the Rockfire Disaster was caused by the spell battle between the dwarves and the drow under the sea. It weakened the walls and both magma from below and water from above came pouring into the caverns, chasing the dwarves and drow to MAztica.

quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas


C) what if the "sorcerous orcs" were the remnants of the human Tabaxi civilization who had left to follow Qotal in Chult (and some of whom had left after being changed into cat folk named tabaxi and settled in Far Payit). I specify Tabaxi, since it is the sleeper that assaults them.

D) what if since Zaltec is already known for turning humans into orcs... (i.e. when he turned thousands of humans into orcs during the night of wailing), these "sorcerous orcs" WERE humans.


That is awesome. Perhaps Lopango/Katashaka had a mirror event to the Night of Wailing long ago. This could be why the orcs were so advanced in the first place.

quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas


E) What if these humans had turned from the worship of both Zaltec and Tezca, and they were accepting the worship of their northern brothers Intiri and Qotal (and Qotal, Intiri, and many of the good Maztican gods had all retreated to Maztica)
F) So, these humans are punished by Zaltec and Tezca, turned into orcs, some into hags and uthraki (my own reasons for that), and they kill the followers of Intiri and Qotal amongst them.
G) So, these sorcerous orcs are followers of Tezca (god of the sun and fire) who have a huge hate on for the Natican people who worship Intiri (god of the sun).



That certainly works for me. They are bitter at their abandonment by the gods they sought to protect them. By the way, in the near future, I hope to define Maztica's heart as a gigantic blackened and ozzing mess that has tentacles (veins) holding it to the cavern walls. Zaltec gains power when he takes a bite out of the heart itself and can do things like cause the Night of Wailing.

quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas


H) their empire fell beneath the waves, and their people are force to Lopango (orcs) or into the jungles of Katashaka (hags and uthraki).... and maybe the hags and uthraki are actually followers of Watil and Nula who were also punished.


Perhaps this would've instead been a good time for Zaltec or whomever to awaken the Sleeper. The Sleeper could certainly level a whole civilization, particularly one that depends so heavily on magic.

As far as the uthraki and hags go, I see this as an opportunity for you to develop some similar, but new creatures so as to not step on Rashemite lore's toes. Unless that actually is your intention!



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Seethyr
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Posted - 25 Jan 2018 :  22:56:33  Show Profile  Visit Seethyr's Homepage Send Seethyr a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Btw, sorry for the poor grammar and misspellings. I’m posting using my phone and editing is really not much fun.

Ozzing? Lol

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sleyvas
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Posted - 25 Jan 2018 :  23:09:11  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

Eberron uses giant ruins all over the place, as does Pathfinder's Golarion. If any setting should have some, it should be FR's (and I've managed to steal Eberron's - whole cloth - without really stealing them!) Neat trick, huh?

The best part about that is, if your a particularly nasty (or creative) DM, you could have them enter the ruins, and have it shift while they are in them, so that when the exit again, They're not in Kansas anymore (or perhaps, they ARE in Kansas!)

I don't think I want so many kaiju running around - it starts to become comical. Definitely one insect one (I am thinking HUGE spider, or Scorpion), and definitely one Avian (a Niven-Roc, like Rodan). I wanted the 'Six Great Beasts' to all be dinos, but truthfully, the Ixalan stuff only details three, so that leaves us an out. We could have Giant prehistoic 'cats', etc. So in other words, I was thinking six Dinos, and six non-Dinos (we already have Akonga as one), which doesn't leave us a lot of play. A giant crab and giant squid/octopus would also be cool.

You know, with the Warforged also in the region... GIANT ones, at that... it wouldn't be too hard to do a Pacific Rim kind of thing here. Too bad I hate 'giant robots' (except for Gigantor - that was the first cartoon I ever truly loved as a child. Don't ask me why).



Well, think of it like this regarding the giant beasts. If I take Katashaka in mspaint and take the center of it (say half the continent) and move it over to above Faerun... it becomes roughly the distance of Mulhorand up to Sossal on one side and then Calimshan up to say Silverymoon on the other side... and all the land between. So, even if we were to put even 15 giant creatures there, with natives worshipping them, that'd still be like an entire country the size of like Cormyr for each one.

Speaking of giants... for cyclopes, do we have an originating parent story for FR? I know for 4e they made them (along with fomorians) as being from the feywild. I just don't want Annam's brood (or anything related to Othea) in Katashaka..... but cyclopes tribes could fit the area.

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Phillip aka Sleyvas
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sleyvas
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Posted - 26 Jan 2018 :  00:07:29  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Seethyr

quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

Seethyr,

Hey, I'm looking at your "Grand History of the True World", and I noticed the part of Shar trying to steal Qotal's power.... Qotal and Zaltec temporarily aligning to stop her... and then Qotal showing that he's fallible when he rapes his sister Kiltzi.... anyway, one of the things in Tomb of Annihilation is that there's an Atropal involved. I know you didn't make up the part about Qotal and Kiltzi, as that's canon (and I'm trying to treat your GHotTW as such as well), but I wanted your thoughts... what do you think of the idea that that atropal is the "lovechild" of Qotal and Kiltzi? Also, if it is an Atropal, what would you say as to why it wasn't born? I'm kind of thinking to go with "Kiltzi turned to Zaltec to use Hishna magic to kill the child in the womb".... and maybe this act has haunted the goddess of love and childbirth ever since.


–2225 DR: Diamond Eyes
In the guise of a beautiful mortal woman known only as “Diamond Eyes,” Shar tricks Qotal into giving away some of his divinity. Qotal seeks aid from his hated brother Zaltec and together they easily recover his stolen power. Once the battle is over, the alliance ends as quickly as it began. Qotal is given a vision of his sister Kiltzi in which he recognizes her resemblance to Diamond Eyes and he lusts for her.
–1106 DR: Qotal’s Seduction
For more than a thousand years after his vision of Kiltzi, Qotal observed mankind’s love and play and he grew increasingly jealous. The seed of lust Shar had placed in his mind germinated until he could no longer deny it. Against her wishes, Qotal took his sister Kiltzi and proceeded to fall into a deep slumber. The darkest rumors claim that a child was born of this union, but no evidence of the rumor’s
veracity can be found.

–1105 DR
Kiltzi flees to her brother Zaltec in shame along with her sisters Watil and Nula. Terrible droughts, plagues and natural disasters decimate mankind as Qotal continues to slumber.
–1095 DR
A majority of the human race also turns to Zaltec who demands tens of thousands of sacrifices. The droughts and famine end as the gods once again begin performing their duties.

–812 DR: Departure of the Feathered Dragon
Qotal finally awakens after centuries of slumber to a land all but dominated by the worship of crueler gods. He attempts to punish mankind by taking their speech, but his power is no longer what it once was and only his few remaining priests comply. Qotal begins a self-imposed exile, though he leaves the Prophecy of the Cloak of One Plume to indicate when he would return to the shores of the eastern land of Payit. Two massive faces are carved into a rocky bluff where Qotal sets off on brightly feathered canoe by his remaining worshipers. These faces become known as the Twin Visages.





It's funny how much we think alike, way back when I wrote Diamond Eyes I had thought about that. To be honest, I shied away from it because of the subject matter. Yes, there should be an atropal out there somewhere.

I had also thought to have Kiltzi birth the 400 Drunken Rabbits and bring them to Maztica as a divine sort of nature spirit, but I might use a less controversial scenario for them.



Yeah, its kind of morbid, but we have at least two atropals in canon in FR now (the one in chult and then Xingax in Thay). They have to come from somewhere. Might as well make it interesting.

Oh, and in your next entry, I hadn't noticed that the gold-clad-giants had the ability to turn people into pyrite. That's actually kind of interesting.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Markustay
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Posted - 26 Jan 2018 :  02:16:07  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So a young flower goddess gets raped, and then becomes the goddess of prostitutes? It makes you wonder about some cultures...
Now for the fun part - I had (briefly) considered 'bunny people' for Katashaka, but I dropped it because I already have an idea for ape-people vs bunny-people over in Kara-Tur (Hengeyokai), and I've already decided to put at least one group of 'Apefolk' in Kata, so I had completely forgotten about my bunny idea. But what if the '400 rabbits' turned into a tribe of bunnyfolk? I was already planning on some rodentfolk (I was going to say those Giant Vole-brothers from the Ring of Winter novel actually came from this region... which is why we never see any trace of anything like them ever again after that one book. I'm not completely loving it, but if you really want the myth in FR (Maztica), then I would use a tribe of rabbit people.

Is Diamond Eyes canon from somewhere, or was that your creation, Seethyr?

@Sleyvas - I think your going to be pretty disappointed then, Sleyvas, because its going to be all about the giants. ALL of them. Every last one I can find. My foundation is the Eberron Xendrik lore, and I am building off of that. I want EVERYTHING Huge. its basically a world made for giants. And everything keeps getting bigger as you travel toward the center. The 'Great bests' and dinosaurs and all are just a part of that - its going to be a prehistoric setting that once housed a giant empire. I want the adventurers not to feel like everything is Huge, so much as I want them to feel like they shrunk. Heck, I even found some canon Sea-Titans.

This all stems from a variety of source-material, starting with the Eberron stuff, and folding-in the PF Golarion stuff, and then going in a bunch of directions from there (and basing it all on a 'lost World of Giants' that had existed in the Time Before Time - I'm even working on a map of the Feywild right now!). I guess, in a way, you could say the Giant Empire wasn't really on Toril (or Abeir-Toril), so much as bits and pieces of it intrude on all worlds, and the stuff regarding Hartsvale, Annam, and Othea are just a small part of that. So if it makes you feel any better, at the same time I am porting-in tons of giant stuff, I am also saying that FR's giant Lore never really happened... at least, not in the way everyone thinks it does. It happened on a world that no longer exists.

I would LOVE to use Cyclopses, and I want to do something really cool with them (they come in THREE sizes!), I just don't want it to look like a complete ripoff of Pathfinder's Rise of the Runelords AP (which is excellent, BTW). I may spin it where after the collapse of the first Giant empire, the (Greater) Cyclopses tied to rebuild it, with them as the rulers, but most of the other giants fought against it (and some were destroyed, and some were subjugated, and others just stayed out of their way, etc.) Something like that.

Mantis Kaiju - I hadn't considered one of those.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 26 Jan 2018 02:28:59
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Markustay
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Posted - 26 Jan 2018 :  02:41:21  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
You can find some decent looking 'bunny warriors' HERE. Unfortunately, I can't find the original artist's (WinB) page.

Some other really inspiring stuff on that page as well.

I also like the Yeti-like tauric creature in This One. He'd make a good 'Elder Beast'.

So now I am thinking, maybe they're not all kaiju-sized, or perhaps there are two different groups of Legendary Creatures?

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 26 Jan 2018 02:57:44
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sleyvas
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Posted - 26 Jan 2018 :  03:39:06  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ok, rather than reply to the above reply, I'll throw out some more advancements.

So, ok, it sounds like we both like this idea of the sorcerous orcs being transformed humans. If their land was actually the land that's "dropped beneath the waves" between Katashaka and that big island off its east coast.... and if I did put some Mulan people on the eastern edge of that island, perhaps it wasn't just their people turning to Qotal and Intiri.... maybe they had even started accepting foreign gods. Thus, maybe there were more nyama-nummo sent to punish these people (i.e. Zaltec inhabiting the sleeper/tarrasque, Nula maybe inhabiting a "Kong-Like" female ape, Azul inhabiting a dire version of spinosaurus, with its crocodilian snout full of fangs, and Tezca inhabiting a dire version of dimetrodon whose "sail back spine" was surrounded in a corona of flame)

I hadn't really thought about the hags and uthraki both being from Rashemen. I'm just looking to make some jungle hags that rule over an empire of apes and monkeys (girallons, winged monkeys, winged apes, etc..). I was also thinking I might change some of the humans into ogre-magi. I was going to call it "The Wilderlands of the Green Empresses", and it would extend to the coastline and include sea hags. The Uthraki would be a brown furred variety, and the only reason I was thinking about them was their resemblance to apes, while still being something more than just muscle. The hags themselves will be experimenters with modifying creatures, but they won't be good at it. Like they've been trying to learn the lore of the creator races. This whole piece needs work, but since I'm having it bordering that region it might work. I could also have the hags come from elsewhere and just have the girallons, uthraki, and ogre-magi be the changed humans.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

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sleyvas
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Posted - 26 Jan 2018 :  03:43:19  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay

So a young flower goddess gets raped, and then becomes the goddess of prostitutes? It makes you wonder about some cultures...



You are mixing up Inanna and Kiltzi. Kiltzi is more like Sune than anything. That being said, it is canon that she was raped by Qotal, and it is canon that she turned to Zaltec for help. Qotal then left in shame (i.e. he went to Chult and started calling himself Ubtao).

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sleyvas
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Posted - 26 Jan 2018 :  04:07:59  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay


@Sleyvas - I think your going to be pretty disappointed then, Sleyvas, because its going to be all about the giants. ALL of them. Every last one I can find. My foundation is the Eberron Xendrik lore, and I am building off of that. I want EVERYTHING Huge. its basically a world made for giants. And everything keeps getting bigger as you travel toward the center. The 'Great bests' and dinosaurs and all are just a part of that - its going to be a prehistoric setting that once housed a giant empire. I want the adventurers not to feel like everything is Huge, so much as I want them to feel like they shrunk. Heck, I even found some canon Sea-Titans.




That's fine. If I have 3 kinds of giants, I feel like that's more than plenty. I've pretty much accepted so far that we're both good to throw ideas against and it fuels the imagination. You've drawn your Katashaka and it resembles nothing like mine. For instance, I have savannah and jungle and mountains surrounding the place where the giant things are, but no desert. Your islands are all a bit different too. That being said, would you mind taking your Maztica drawing

https://markustay.deviantart.com/art/Maztica-Forgotten-Realms-723456937

and just the Lopango/Nimbral/Chult portion from this

https://markustay.deviantart.com/art/Katashaka-Conversion-726892852

and putting them together? I could probably do it myself too if you're fine with that. Just don't want to do anything that you might not be cool with. Except that I added some mountains up by Balduran Bay a little inland, oh, and a small "lake" up near the city of gold, it pretty much matches my geography.

I do find it funny though that we keep hitting around similar ideas, but spinning them in different ways. For instance, I too was doing different versions of "rodent folk". First is the classic ratmen, then beguilers from shining south, the psionically enhanced ones who were experimented on like cranium rats, then "meerkatians" who are like meerkats, then finally... Miraji... the rabbit folk who were advanced from the al'miraj (i.e. the unicorn bunny that can teleport).

The one thing though, I really

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Markustay
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Posted - 26 Jan 2018 :  04:24:49  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
This is a direct quote from the link you provided about the 400 rabbits -
quote:
In this story the Goddess of Flowers (including the manguey and its sap), Xochitl, gave some pulque to the King of Tula, who got drunk and raped her. It made her also the Goddess of Early Sexuality and Prostitutes. From then on the Aztecs made sure that drinking became a sole activity of the old and experienced men, who could control themselves.
I wasn't talking about Maztica, I was talking about RW Aztecs.





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Markustay
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Posted - 26 Jan 2018 :  04:44:00  Show Profile Send Markustay a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The Lower Maztica area from the one map IS a paste-in from the other map, but the scales are very different. I forget by how much. I was planning on eventually doing a conjoined map because I also want to add-in Ed's Anchoromé Islands (except I will be putting them somewhat further south than he had them - like right off the right (east) coast of Maztica. I'll play around with that tomorrow.

The whole point, really, of my pasting the Xendrik stuff directly into Katshaka was that people could have an entire sourcebook (and parts of another) to work from, without me really having to do much. And as I've said, I've managed to spin it in such a way that it makes sense the locales are in both settings at the same time.

I only added the desert after re-reading the Nyambe stuff, and realized I needed at least one (because my one CKC article does mention the lost Mulan settlements in the region). Plus, I also found that Xendrik has deserts.

I didn't really want orcs, but now I'm rethinking a couple of things, and if the Orcs aren't real orcs (they just look like orcs), then that could work. Its just that with Orcs, its starting to sound like generic RPG setting 2.0. I'll have to buy Seethyr's Lopango book tomorrow, to see how I can make it all work. I could say that there was an 'orc Empire' (an over-glorification on their part) in Lopango, and they had made some landings on the northern coast of Katshaka.

As for the Giants themselves, as per the Xendrik lore, their empire/kingdoms are all LONG gone. Just a few tribes, really, and very primitive. Even the storm and cloud giants have 'gone native'. hill, mounatian, and jungle giants might all be doing well, and have several tribes, but the others may be 1-2 tribes each. Titans are a 'special' - I don't think I am going to use any beyond the Dreamers and Syllia (the 'escapee'), who I thought I was just borrowing from Egg of Phoenix, but it turns out she has some old-school D&D lore attached to her (2e Monstrous Manual). Even with the few titans (and Kaiju), a landmass of this size would mean you'd have to go looking for these things to even find them.

Most of the Mountain ranges on my map came right from the FRIA maps (there are some that show mountains in Kata), but I added to them when I over-layed Xendrik on top of it. I wish I could talk about the Rashear Coast more, but I haven't heard back from Frog God Games.

Oh, and the Hags - I didn't mention them because I don't mind them AT ALL. I love me some hags. You see, in my purely homebrew world/material, giants are ALL male. Female giants are hags. And they're all Fey... sort of. The come from the Feywild. So hags can change size, and thats how all that works. She gives birth to male children of the type the father is, and all females are baby hags (who are very beautiful until something happens to them... I never decided what. Some sort of ritual to gain their magical powers, I am guessing).

Homebrew:
Hags are size: large in their natural forms, usually gangley and about 7' tall, but occasionally you'll see a plump one. They can change size (category) twice per day, up or down one size category (so about every 12 hrs). They cannot become smaller than Size: Small, and it literally pains them to become that small, thus, it is extremely rare they ever become smaller than medium size. Their max size is normally huge, but stories tell of some of them being able to become even bigger (Ancient Crone).

Normally they adjust their size to breed with giants, but they can literally breed with anything. When they breed with human males, if the children are male they are hagspawn. They entice human males by taking on the semblance they had when they were young and beautiful, before the Hag curse make them ugly. Unlike the size change, this is only a glamour (illlusion), and spells and what-not can see through or detect it.

"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone


Edited by - Markustay on 26 Jan 2018 08:00:30
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Jürgen Hubert
Acolyte

Germany
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Posted - 26 Jan 2018 :  06:09:07  Show Profile  Visit Jürgen Hubert's Homepage Send Jürgen Hubert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
You are mixing up Inanna and Kiltzi. Kiltzi is more like Sune than anything. That being said, it is canon that she was raped by Qotal, and it is canon that she turned to Zaltec for help. Qotal then left in shame (i.e. he went to Chult and started calling himself Ubtao).



Well, this is the story told in the mythology section of the Boxed Set - and the entire mythology is pointed out as unreliable in the Boxed Set itself. The novels state that Qotal left because he was upset about all the human sacrifice.

Which story is true? In my view, this doesn't actually matter - both are stories told by Mazticans about the gods, and the gods are not in the habit of answering questions from mortals about their affairs. In fact, for my "Returned Maztica" project I plan to come up with all sorts of new stories about the gods - many of them contradictory. These stories will be believed by all sorts of cults across Maztica, if not necessarily all of them at the same time, and the gods do not bother to correct them.

(Also, wasn't Ubtao some different entity, such as a Primordial?)

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Jürgen Hubert
Acolyte

Germany
33 Posts

Posted - 26 Jan 2018 :  06:19:55  Show Profile  Visit Jürgen Hubert's Homepage Send Jürgen Hubert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
I've pretty much accepted so far that we're both good to throw ideas against and it fuels the imagination. You've drawn your Katashaka and it resembles nothing like mine.



For the record, I have a different version of the South Continent as well - which (as I have stated elsewhere) I do not identify with Katashaka (to me, Katashaka is the island continent a bit further to the east, and south of Chult). It's somewhat more reminiscent of real world South America. I have three primary cultures:

In the highest mountain ranges there used to be the local equivalent of the Inca Empire... but when the continent moved to Abeir, the inhabitants of their cities gradually retreated to their capital under the onslaught of dragons seeking to plunder them until they finally fled this world with a hidden fleet of Spelljammers (thus tying on those "Incas - Ancient Astronauts" memes). Thus, their cities now are largely ruins with dragons lairing in them. Their subsidiary kingdoms still largely survive.

In the lowlands jungles there are plenty of jungle-dwelling, frequently urban civilizations - just like modern research indicates that there were massive civilizations in the Amazon basin until they were wiped out by European diseases (which has not happened on Faerun, obviously).

Finally, in the coastal areas there are cities and nations established long ago by people from the actual island-continent of Katashaka - I am going for a West African/Moorish vibe here, if these regions had deliberately colonized South Africa. These have introduced all sorts of new plants and animals to the region (yes, including dinosaurs). There are also the odd Zakharan influences (considering there is a massive island chain stretching from Zakhara almost to the South Continent.

A German Geek - my gaming blog
Returned Maztica Discussion Thread - my interpretation of the True World
Doomed Slayers - my social analysis of adventurers. Also, a fantasy setting!
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