| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
 Posted - 24 Apr 2013 : 09:39:51
|
I was rereading Whisper of Venom last night and noticed that “arcanists” was mentioned several times to refer to magic-users, regardless of specialization. So I wonder, is this term still prevalent among the magical communities (other than in Shade, of course)? I’ve read (and reread) quite a lot of FR novels where magic-users donned prominent roles, but I seldom encountered this term—just the more common “wizards” and “sorcerers.” Heck, AFAIR, it’s not even mentioned in The Haunted Lands, even though more than half of the characters in that series are magic-users.
|
Every beginning has an end. |
|
|
_Jarlaxle_
Senior Scribe
Germany
584 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2013 : 14:15:25
|
| I allways thought of arcanist as a term only used in old netheril |
Edited by - _Jarlaxle_ on 24 Apr 2013 14:15:43 |
 |
|
|
Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2013 : 14:19:39
|
I think it's probably entered the general lexicon as a generic for "wizard," at least in the north and the the Heartlands, where people were closest to Netheril. It's probably used in exactly the same way as wizard and sorcerer are: to mean someone the D&D rules would call a "wizard."
As for why it doesn't show up in fiction, that's easy: the authors are using terms we their Earth readers understand. Remember, the proper Realms term for a "D&D sorcerer" is "wildwand." To someone in Faerun, a sorcerer means a wizard. Warlock also probably means a wizard. And to the vast majority of people (and most wizards as well), no further specification is needed. But the authors want to avoid confusing their readers, so they stick mostly to the D&D terms for clarity's sake. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
|
|
|
Tyrant
Senior Scribe
USA
586 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2013 : 15:17:28
|
quote:
Originally posted by Hoondatha
I think it's probably entered the general lexicon as a generic for "wizard," at least in the north and the the Heartlands, where people were closest to Netheril. It's probably used in exactly the same way as wizard and sorcerer are: to mean someone the D&D rules would call a "wizard."
As for why it doesn't show up in fiction, that's easy: the authors are using terms we their Earth readers understand. Remember, the proper Realms term for a "D&D sorcerer" is "wildwand." To someone in Faerun, a sorcerer means a wizard. Warlock also probably means a wizard. And to the vast majority of people (and most wizards as well), no further specification is needed. But the authors want to avoid confusing their readers, so they stick mostly to the D&D terms for clarity's sake.
I could've sworn some of the novels I have read used warlock quite a bit when I am fairly certain they were talking about wizards. I believe it was one of the books about Thay (which is why I was fairly certain they were wizards), so I believe it is correct that the terms are sometimes meant to be catch alls for "magic users" and not always meaning the specific D&D class. |
Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
-The Sith Code
Teenage Sith zombies, Tulkh thought-how in the moons of Bogden had it all started? Every so often, the universe must just get bored and decide to really cut loose. -Star Wars: Red Harvest |
|
|
|
silverwolfer
Senior Scribe
789 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2013 : 16:00:01
|
Warlock was refered to some of the gish like characters, those that were of "darker" power and did magic and heavy armor without being some cleric type of person.
4e brought this around as a stronger concept of those that make pacts with others rather then worship. |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2013 : 17:12:37
|
quote:
Originally posted by silverwolfer
Warlock was refered to some of the gish like characters, those that were of "darker" power and did magic and heavy armor without being some cleric type of person.
4e brought this around as a stronger concept of those that make pacts with others rather then worship.
Pretty sure that was actually 3E. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
|
|
|
Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2013 : 19:52:13
|
Right. 3e introduced the warlock class, which was the "dark pact with outer beings"/"magic but not established magic" semi-caster. Before that, warlock was a generic term for dark and/or evil wizard, and likely still is. See, for instance, Warlock's Crypt, which doesn't have a single "D&D warlock" in it.
All of this is made more confusing by the fact that in 1e, many of the names that have specific meaning in 2-3e were actually level titles. Which leads to things like in Spellfire, when Jhessail announces to a meeting of Knights that Narm is now a Conjurer. She doesn't mean a specialist in conjuration/summoning, she means he's now level 3.
All of which goes to show that these terms that have very specific definitions in the various PHB's can be extraordinarily nebulous in the Realms. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
|
|
|
Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7970 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2013 : 21:45:47
|
Oddly enough, the clumsy 1E term "Magic-User" is entirely obsolete. "Mage" has remained but is only used in a technical manner which specifically refers to a particular magic-using subtype.
"Arcanist" was used in 2E only to indicate a Netherese wizard, and Netheril provided rules for converting between the two classes/systems of magic.
I think "Arcanist" became more common when 3E divided things into "arcane" and "divine" magics ... and the coming of the Shadovar (still referring to themselves as Arcanists, although technically they should probably be called Wizards) sort of popularized the term. |
[/Ayrik] |
|
|
|
Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 24 Apr 2013 : 21:54:44
|
| But again, a random person on the street in the Realms would be as likely to call someone a "mage" as they are to call them a "wizard," regardless of specialization. And I think it's entirely possible that people in areas surrounding where Netheril used to be would also use "arcanist" on occasion. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
|
|
|
Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2013 : 02:27:20
|
The novel in question is set mostly in Chessenta, which is rather far from Netheril/Shade/Anauroch. So . . . |
Every beginning has an end. |
|
|
|
MrHedgehog
Senior Scribe
688 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2013 : 04:30:18
|
Arcane + ist = arcanist
The ending just makes it a person related to that word. Anthropology (anthropologist), Psychology (Psychologist), Military (Militarist), Linguistics (linguist), etc. A common mistake with people who learn English as a second language is to over apply it like "electricity" to "electricist" (Instead of Electrician) |
|
|
|
Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 25 Apr 2013 : 05:55:36
|
quote:
Originally posted by MrHedgehog
Arcane + ist = arcanist
The ending just makes it a person related to that word. Anthropology (anthropologist), Psychology (Psychologist), Military (Militarist), Linguistics (linguist), etc. A common mistake with people who learn English as a second language is to over apply it like "electricity" to "electricist" (Instead of Electrician)
By that logic, users or practitioners of magic should have been commonly known as “magic-users” or “magickers.” But no; instead, we have “wizards,” “mages,” and “sorcerers.”
“Arcane magic” and “arcane power” are often mentioned in novels post-Arcane Age. But “arcanists,” not that often. |
Every beginning has an end. |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
Is “Arcanist” Still a Common Term Post-Nethril?
