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Jakuta Khan
Senior Scribe
496 Posts |
 Posted - 16 Nov 2012 : 15:10:22
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Hi everybody,
is there any more lore on them than in the races of Faerun entry? I was really liking their style, and wonder if they were mentioned in Novels or other sourcebooks after that.
I think sons of Gruumsh sports one or two of them??
Looking forward to input.
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 16 Nov 2012 : 17:30:50
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Weren't they featured in The Orc King novel?
Sorry, I can no longer check that. 
I recall for awhile they were redundant with Ogrillons, and then the FR Bestiary gave us a logical difference (it depended upon which sex the parents were), but I think that got nerfed at some point. I forget why. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Jakuta Khan
Senior Scribe
496 Posts |
Posted - 16 Nov 2012 : 18:48:24
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Markus, you refer to the Orc / Ogre Crossbreeds, which were in that underdark tribe trying to overcome Obould and caused the civil war.
Ogrillons and all the other fine detailed subraces got smashed in 2e to 3e takeover.
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xaeyruudh
Master of Realmslore
USA
1853 Posts |
Posted - 16 Nov 2012 : 20:49:53
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| Orogs are mentioned a couple of times in the 3e Underdark book and the 2e Spellbound book. Not too much lore or story, particularly in Spellbound. |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 16 Nov 2012 : 22:15:58
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| To me, Orogs will ALWAYS be Orc/Ogre crossbreeds as they were originally printed. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 16 Nov 2012 : 22:43:15
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Which way did the Bestiary have it? I no longer have my original copies, and the last time I checked I believe that part got edited out.
Which ones were which? One had a ogre mommy/Orc daddy, and the other had an Orc mommy/Ogre daddy (I am biting my tongue here trying not to make a joke about the disappointed ogre female... oops... just did). 
Moving forward, I would use some of what we had been discussing in terms of the Tielfings in 4e vs the 'old school' versions. The Orogs could be Ogre/Orc crossbreeds, but many generations removed, so they are a race unto themselves now (and mostly found in the underdark). The Ogrillons could be a DIRECT Ogre/Orc crossbreed, first generation. The new Orogs could possibly even have a smattering of Tannaruk blood.
Hmmmm.. what other race has a plethora of subraces and even a mixed fiend sub-race? Oh YEAH... the Elves! No connection there... must be a coincidence. 
@Jakuta - off-topic, but I know your interests. I've been finding lots of Hobs lately, mostly recently in the border-area between the High Moor and the Serpent Hills (They live on the moor, but not on the plateau itself, near as I can figure). They seem to be active in the foothills around many mountain ranges, including the western Stormhorns and the Cloud Peaks. They seem to enjoy the same terrain as Orcs, Ogres, and common gnomes. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 16 Nov 2012 22:43:31 |
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rjfras
Learned Scribe
261 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2012 : 01:23:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Which way did the Bestiary have it? I no longer have my original copies, and the last time I checked I believe that part got edited out.
Which ones were which? One had a ogre mommy/Orc daddy, and the other had an Orc mommy/Ogre daddy (I am biting my tongue here trying not to make a joke about the disappointed ogre female... oops... just did).
From Realms Bestiary 2 by Thomas Costa and Eric Boyd (if this is the bestiary you were referring to)
quote:
Library-bound sages once speculated that ogrillons and orogs were both the result of mixed ogre-orc parentage, believing ogrillons (particularly those with the Bony Fists feat) were the issue of female orcs and male ogres, while orogs were the issue of male orcs and female ogres. This absurd notion has since been dispelled by more adventurous loremasters. Nevertheless, ogrillons are still sometimes known as orogs or as half-ogres (which while accurate is usually reserved for the unfortunate pairing of a human and ogre). Also contrary to speculation, these half-breeds are fully capable of siring offspring just as halforcs may.
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rjfras
Learned Scribe
261 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2012 : 01:25:01
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From the Bestiary Credits section:
quote:
The ogrillon originally appeared in the first edition Fiend Folio (1981) and Monstrous Manual (1993). The orog originally appeared in the 2E Monstrous Compendium (1989) and Monstrous Manual (1993). Unofficial 3E versions of the ogrillon and orog appeared in Necromancer Games’ The Tome of Horrors (2002). Finally, a 3E version of the ogrillon appeared in Dungeon #83 (2000), but this version appeared to ignore much of the flavor of the original.
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rjfras
Learned Scribe
261 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2012 : 01:32:24
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From "The Horde - Barbarians of the Endless Waste" a web supplement for Dragon 349:
quote:
Swordrise Mountains
blah, blah, blah.... Ages ago an orc horde fleeing the Orcgate Wars fled into caverns deep beneath these mountains. Centuries of isolation in the Underdark transformed those orcs into orogs, and they now number in the thousands, if not tens of thousands.
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Jakuta Khan
Senior Scribe
496 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2012 : 08:13:02
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@Markus,
thanks for this, WHERE did you find these? As usual by lifting the dusty blanket off fthe map and take a peek?
Or are these the Hobs from Elmisters ecologies 2e which you mean? He there mentioned them to be numerous and also, surprisingly, caring for their environment.
@Dalor: thats what Orogs will stay for e as well, but I think we are an almost dieing race regarding this.
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Edited by - Jakuta Khan on 17 Nov 2012 08:27:25 |
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Jakuta Khan
Senior Scribe
496 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2012 : 08:31:05
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@rjfras:
Now this is interesting.
Originally they were said to be a tribe of mountain orcs fleeing underground when their horde was on the verge of destruction.
Your post here would mean, that they most likely were Gray orcs, since if I am not completely wrong, they were the ones fighting in the orcgate wars.
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2012 : 19:17:02
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It does seem a little odd - a spontaneous transformation? I suppose we could blame it on Faerzress or some other type of node/energy.
Ogrillons are human/ogre crossbreeds? That could make sense. If an Ogrillon and an Orog had a baby, would it be a Half-Org? 
Then we could just say orogs are to orcs what mongrelmen are to humans (and just about everything else). Mostly Orc blood, but with little bits of this and that over time, from living in the Underdark. A race that takes the best parts of whatever DNA it gets mixed with and adapts. That would means two different groups of Orogs could be vastly different in appearance and abilities.
@JK - The stuff about the High Moor and Serpent Hills was found in the Elminster's Ecologies products, but I believe the stuff about the foothills around Cormyr and Amn came from the Nevrwinter and Baldur's gate video games, which only makes it psuedo-canonical (but I did use bits of those maps for mine, since other {official} designers have stated that they try to bring some of that lore into canon whenever possible).
I was researching Valkur's Roar from the 4e map, and found that it used to be an independent town (trying to turn citystate) named Redmist, and when I looked into it further I found they had had problems with Hobgoblins in the past (which is why it is a walled settlement). I just double-checked the Baldur's Gate game map and you will see a 'Gnoll Stronghold' in the lower left corner. Just above that is another icon you can click on and you will see that is a hobgoblin region. Like I said, only psuedo-canonical, but they are around when you look hard enough. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 17 Nov 2012 19:20:18 |
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Jakuta Khan
Senior Scribe
496 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2012 : 08:26:33
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Well, after reading "Year of the rogue Dragons" trilogy, it s more than obvious that hobgoblins are by far more common than initially thought by myslef, but around Impiltur they have been a force to reckon for centuries.... as we know.
What still stresses me out is the fact, that despite being described as highly organized, carrying shining weapons and equipment, having high discipline as well, they are mostly depicted as savage brutes, carrying wooden or primitive weapons and wearing hide armor. but that is a bit off topic now.
coming back to the Orog-theme:
acording to rjfras, in the hordelands box, it is mentiojed they are coming from grey orcs, and races of faerun states a kind of orogs from mountain orcs. now, either it is two separate branches, which i strongly believe, or something else happened.
otherwise i could not imagine that from gray orcs they suddenly become sorcerers and not further strengthen their natural association with clerical magic.
but i was more interested if there was, especially in the 4e books, some more lore showing the recent activities of them in the north, since it was stated that they are arming their brethren and organizing them in RoF. And according to current timeline that was more than 100 years ago. or maybe they form a special caste in the many-arrows kingdom? |
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2012 : 14:17:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Weren't they featured in The Orc King novel?
Sorry, I can no longer check that.
Methinks ogrillon isn't a very close description to that of Chieftain Grguch's ogre-orc mixed-breed merc band of Clan Karuck. D&D 1E ogrillons were described as ogre-behaving and orc-looking and orc-sized, and never using weapons.
If Grguch was indeed an ogrillon, then, obviously, somewhere along the way there had to be some big changes. I don't have access to the later editions' versions.
"Orog": doesn't that just sound like "or[c] + og[re]"?! That's what Grguch should be called.  
"Orog" doesn't even sound like a proper and fitting name for a mutated Underdark orc. Those should be called "Undorcs": "Und[erdark] + orcs". Their enemies could stress the "dorcs" part: "Dude, why did you want to play an Underdark orc? You're such a dorc!" Meanwhile their proponents could stress the "Un-" part, like a prefix: "Nuh-unh, they're not 'dorcs'; they're un-dorcs--see?--that makes them the opposite of 'dorcs'".  
When I read "ogrillon", I think of an ogre mixed with an ion (nanoscopic or picoscopic subatomic particle)--i.e., a super-tiny ogre. I'm thinking pigmy ogre. It's Baby Shrek! Either that, or think of an ogre and a Papillon toy dog. Ooh, look at the cute li'l' ogre with the fuzzy-wuzzy ears!   |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
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BEAST
Master of Realmslore
USA
1714 Posts |
Posted - 21 Nov 2012 : 14:22:13
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Bah, silly humans! Ye and yer confounded need to slap names on this and that sort of pig-faced mongrel breed. I got some better ideas for ye all: "Axe-bait", "Hammer-bait", "Bow-bait", "Juicer-bait", etc.  |
"'You don't know my history,' he said dryly."
--Drizzt Do'Urden (The Pirate King, Part 1: Chapter 2)
<"Comprehensive Chronology of R.A. Salvatore Forgotten Realms Works"> |
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Orogs in 1370's
