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Dark Wizard
Senior Scribe
USA
830 Posts |
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Mace Hammerhand
Great Reader
Germany
2296 Posts |
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
 Posted - 15 Dec 2011 : 02:42:52
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Unfortunate. Good luck with your next journey Rich.
I see this stuff in my line of work all the time near December. For some reason, employers seem to feel the need to cut costs at the end of the year. |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 15 Dec 2011 : 03:29:00
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Terrible news. I've worked with Rich, and I both like and respect him. I hope the path ahead of him leads to good things. Erevan smile upon you, Rich!
quote:
Originally posted by scererar
For some reason, employers seem to feel the need to cut costs at the end of the year.
End of the year expense reports, no doubt.
There might also be some of the same logic that leads people to fire people on Fridays--it's the end of the week and people have the weekend to look forward to. Though I think the "having no job at Christmas" kind of outweighs "not having a job for the weekend."
Cheers
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Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3286 Posts |
Posted - 15 Dec 2011 : 10:15:44
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So who is left from the 4E Launch? Mike Mearls?
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"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Bakra
Senior Scribe
628 Posts |
Posted - 15 Dec 2011 : 14:27:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
So who is left from the 4E Launch? Mike Mearls?
Who cares.
Rich is gone and so is Steve Winter.
Two of the nicest guys I ever chatted with from Tsr/Wotc.
I wish them both the best of luck. |
I hope Candlekeep continues to be the friendly forum of fellow Realms-lovers that it has always been, as we all go through this together. If you don’t want to move to the “new” Realms, that doesn’t mean there’s anything wrong with either you or the “old” Realms. Goodness knows Candlekeep, and the hearts of its scribes, are both big enough to accommodate both. If we want them to be.
(Strikes dramatic pose, raises sword to gleam in the sunset, and hopes breeches won’t fall down.)
Enough for now. The Realms lives! I have spoken! Ale and light wines half price, served by a smiling Storm Silverhand fetchingly clad in thigh-high boots and naught else! Ahem . .
So saith Ed. <snip>
love to all,
THO
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4430 Posts |
Posted - 15 Dec 2011 : 16:20:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
So who is left from the 4E Launch? Mike Mearls?
Mearls that I know of from the Launch though Rodney Thompson (a co-creator of the Essentials-line) and Robert Schwalb (Book of Vile Darkness 4E) are still there. Not sure who else is credited for some other releases for 4E's debut, but those two off the top of my head. Still, I'm saddened that he's gone. His imput, espically with the Rules-of-Three column, and as a general link between fans and WotC was going exceedingly well I had thought.
I hope he succeeds in his endeavors and churns out more interesting reads and novels for the Realms. As I finish up reading Avenger, I have a new love for the Moonsea region and his writing style is right up my alley. So good luck to him. |
Edited by - Diffan on 15 Dec 2011 20:49:55 |
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Snotlord
Senior Scribe
Norway
476 Posts |
Posted - 15 Dec 2011 : 19:31:09
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| Damn shame! I've enjoyed almost everything Realms related Rich has worked on. Best wishes to Rich and his family. |
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Skeptic
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1273 Posts |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36781 Posts |
Posted - 16 Dec 2011 : 04:27:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Skeptic
Someone made a compilation on enworld.
Interesting compilation... A quick count shows like 37 people involved in the 4E PHB1, and now only like 6 of them are left... I want, very badly, to read into that, but there simply isn't enough data to do so. It could certainly be indicative of a lot of things, but not all of those are negative.
I'd actually like to see a breakdown of when each wave of layoffs happened, and who was let go.
And, on a related note, I give you this on-topic Dork Tower comic. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 16 Dec 2011 04:28:25 |
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Marc
Senior Scribe
657 Posts |
Posted - 16 Dec 2011 : 09:41:09
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Interesting, those behind 4th edition Realms managed to survive
Wizards now has the manpower of a 3rd party company |
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Edited by - Marc on 16 Dec 2011 09:41:44 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 16 Dec 2011 : 09:48:53
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A sad news.
At least he's still interested in writing FR novels. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Thieran
Learned Scribe
Germany
293 Posts |
Posted - 16 Dec 2011 : 12:43:39
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| Sad news indeed. Bloody shame. I am very sorry to hear that, and I wish them well. |
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Diffan
Great Reader
USA
4430 Posts |
Posted - 16 Dec 2011 : 13:20:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Interesting compilation... A quick count shows like 37 people involved in the 4E PHB1, and now only like 6 of them are left... I want, very badly, to read into that, but there simply isn't enough data to do so. It could certainly be indicative of a lot of things, but not all of those are negative.
I think this has less to do with the change in Edition and more indicative of WotC's buisness model as a whole. It's really not that unusual of a buisness practice firing someone with [possibly?] good pay and benefits to hire on someone new and less expensive to keep on. And I thought I read somewhere that WotC is more interested in free-lance developers that produce info/mechanics via submissions.
Also (and this is my personal opinion here), creating rules and info for 4E isn't the rocky science of balance it was in the past. A 5-min trip into the Character_Optimization boards would show any Dev. strong, broken, and OP mechanics to help steer a future product away from those areas. And from a purely mechanical perspective, the groud-rules have already been build into the game. When designing a Paragon Path (for example), one knows that there are two to three 11th level features with one being an Action Point feature, and a 16th level feature. There is one 11th level Encounter Power, a 12th level Utility power, and a 20th level Daily power. Adding into this framework is what's important, but it's a framework that's stood since 4E's debut. What this does is streamline people's work, creating less room for problems and lessens the need for an ultimate knowledge of 4E and D&D as a whole. So 20+ years in the buisness is great to have, but not essential to the overall product's quality when it comes to mechanics. |
Edited by - Diffan on 16 Dec 2011 13:24:32 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36781 Posts |
Posted - 16 Dec 2011 : 17:38:21
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quote:
Originally posted by Diffan
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Interesting compilation... A quick count shows like 37 people involved in the 4E PHB1, and now only like 6 of them are left... I want, very badly, to read into that, but there simply isn't enough data to do so. It could certainly be indicative of a lot of things, but not all of those are negative.
I think this has less to do with the change in Edition and more indicative of WotC's buisness model as a whole. It's really not that unusual of a buisness practice firing someone with [possibly?] good pay and benefits to hire on someone new and less expensive to keep on.
True. And it's facts like that that are keeping me from reading into this. I want to assume that this layoff supports my personal opinions, but the data simply isn't there, so I can't. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Kris the Grey
Senior Scribe
USA
422 Posts |
Posted - 16 Dec 2011 : 20:31:49
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I have, in my adult life, not been much of an internet forum poster (no offense intended to the denizens of this quite cool site Lol). The first time I ever felt sufficiently moved to post something on a company site was when they killed Fox Mulder off on the X-Files and the second was a post to the Paizo forums in the immediate wake of release of the 4E Realms sourcebook (for reasons I'm sure you can imagine). My third foray came recently on this site. Here then is my fourth (which just so happens to bear an eerie resemblance to what I said on the Paizo boards back in 2008).
It would seem to me that there is no shortage of people less than delighted with the direction Hasbro (or WoTC if you prefer) has chosen for the Realms over the last few years. Some (like me) abhor the changes of the Spellplague, some think they didn't go far enough, but either way, there seem not to be all that many people who really love (and run campaigns in) the canon 4E Realms. Furthermore, there seem to be no shortage of talented, creative people who no longer work for Hasbro (or only work on a part time basis) and whose talent is thus free to engage in a little bit of good old fashioned entrepreneurial work (once they have settled out details like paying the mortgage that we all grapple with).
Like many of the long term (read people who cut their teeth on 1E or 2E AD&D) players who were fans of the Realms and of the older spell casting classes and magic system which dominated pre 4E systems, I've switched to Pathfinder and have been running in that system since it's Beta Release a couple years back. Now, Pathfinder (and it's world) have been pretty darn successful over these past couple of years going head to head with 4E (when the boys over at Penny Arcade flirt with abandoning 4E for Pathfinder you know there is a problem in Hasbroville) and stealing away most of what remains of 3E's gamer base. The only thing they, or some other enterprising game company (and here I'm thinking of something like the folks who brought us Hackmaster or those who are working to bring us the Midgard setting) don't have is the cache of the Realms setting. Well, that's impossible you say. Hasbro is hip deep in trying to relaunch the Realms as their flagship setting (see varied Neverwinter product releases) and would never in a million years dream of selling it off to someone else. Here I agree.
However, I'm a lawyer (when I'm not DMing, hell, even when I am Lol), and I know that just because something novel hasn't been done in the law doesn't mean it CAN'T be. Negotiating novel contractual concepts is how law firms get rich. I'm of the view that the Realms is big enough for everyone to have their fun in (and make money from) and here is how...
The key isn't focusing on the where's of the intellectual license, it's focusing on the when's. Hasbro jumped 4E 100 years into the future for an assortment of reasons (some good some bad). However, in so doing they left a number of (non immortal) characters and the recent events of places and things all over the Realms high and dry. This would allow two creative forces, Hasbro operating in the 1400 post Spellplague Realms with their 4E product line and some other entity (or entities) operating in the 1300 era (or even before should they choose) with a different product line. These lines, while potentially competing for sales to some degree (more on how to make that a win/win for all in a moment), would not be at all competing with each other over plot, unique and interesting characters, and the like. They literally cannot cross over to any great degree and, just like Old Republic Star Wars, older authors/game designers clearly know who they can and cannot kill off (and have little incentive to kill off the few 4E survivors anyway).
Even shackled with these considerations, there would be PLENTY of creative freedom for the pre Spellplague crew. They could keep chugging from 1375 forward for a few years, or they could (more interestingly to me anyway) take us back to the 1330's, where Elminster and the other Chosen still serve as key background figures, Mystra is still Mystra (and Bhaal, Myrkul, etc still remain), but where Durnan is first establishing the Yawning Portal, Mirt still roams the Sword Coast as a dashing reaver, The Zhents are on the rise, and all manner of old conflicts brew in Waterdeep and across the Realms. Several of the key literary characters from various Realms authors could also have their backstories laid out. Plenty of room for product release and a pre-built sales base eager to buy them...
As to how such a thing could be a win/win, even for the likes of Hasbro, one could take the simple view that any increase in sales of Realms products (and interest in the Realms) accrues to the benefit of the entity that owns the product lines future incarnation (and let's face it, the Realms need a 4E boost). Or, if they wanted to be even more direct in their revenues, they could take the step of licensing the time period or, better yet (I think) just taking a clean percentage of all product sales (say in the neighborhood of 5 % to 10%) of all of the pre-Spellplague Realms products sold or even some variant on a royalty payment system.
Now, my idea may be a bit complex or overly ambitious, but it is a thought for all those many creative people who have spent years working in the Realms only to now find themselves marginalized to some extent and all those gamers who would love to see Realms content translated into their new system of choice (be that Pathfinder or something else).
Thoughts?
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Kris the Grey - Member in Good Standing of the Watchful Order of Magists and Protectors, the Arcane Guild of Silverymoon, and the Connecticut Bar Association |
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Dark Wizard
Senior Scribe
USA
830 Posts |
Posted - 16 Dec 2011 : 21:25:19
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Wizards has done this fairly consistently over a number of years, I wouldn't read anything from it regarding their game systems or future direction. Accounting department probably took a look and figured they could hire some designers as freelance for less.
In truth, the pen'n'paper industry has always seemed 'cottage' level. It's probably best suited to outsourcing most work to freelances with the main company taking on as small a footprint as possible.
No doubt we'll see Rich around the design or novel fields soon and often, unless a video game company grabs him. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36781 Posts |
Posted - 16 Dec 2011 : 21:30:21
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| And just in case, I will now put on my mod hat: Let us not turn this particular discussion into another chapter of the edition wars, please, and let's also not go down the previously-traveled path of assigning malicious intent to WotC's action. We're doing good, thus far, and I should like to continue that trend. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Kris the Grey
Senior Scribe
USA
422 Posts |
Posted - 16 Dec 2011 : 21:53:04
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| Noted Rupert. While my feelings on certain issues can no doubt be detected (from space like the Great Wall of China Lol), I will do my best to confine myself to win/win style scenarios. I do honestly believe the Realms to be big enough for an assortment of competing visions and product lines with benefit (and cash flow) accruing to all. |
Kris the Grey - Member in Good Standing of the Watchful Order of Magists and Protectors, the Arcane Guild of Silverymoon, and the Connecticut Bar Association |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2011 : 00:23:04
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I think the key here is to make the Realms cool again. Or, more accurately, make it cool for everyone--fans of old school Realms and the new edition alike. Are we there right now? Not quite, but I am very confident in what I happen to know is in the cards for the future.
I don't see the Realms being restarted/rebooted (I personally dislike that practice in most instance), but I would like to see more of a range of time periods getting equal love.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7974 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2011 : 00:43:47
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| People don't always leave jobs because of layoffs. Yes, that's what was announced ... but RB has demonstrated a long and prolific career at WotC, the decision to let him go was probably discussed with him in great detail and was probably not undertaken lightly. He might have chosen to reprioritize his life/career path, perhaps he wants to explore other options, perhaps he's perceived some difficulties with continuing to work for Wizbro and is walking away before things get ugly, perhaps things already got ugly. Just sayin' that there might be all sorts of reasons for discontinuing his position at WotC and they may have little or nothing to do with the "product" itself. We can only speculate - and to be honest, it's really none of our business plus a little rude to press RB or the people at WotC for any details they haven't provided in their public announcement. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Kris the Grey
Senior Scribe
USA
422 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2011 : 01:34:33
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Erik,
Don't get me wrong. I'm not talking a restart/re-boot (I leave those to our varied homebrewed campaigns). Mine is more of the idea of having multiple time frames (all able to be consistent within one overarching canon) co-existing at once across multiple platforms. I know that that is legally complex, but not legally impossible. Think Star Wars. All sorts of entities produce product for that universe across a huge span of time, but all operate under the same Lucas defined roof. |
Kris the Grey - Member in Good Standing of the Watchful Order of Magists and Protectors, the Arcane Guild of Silverymoon, and the Connecticut Bar Association |
Edited by - Kris the Grey on 17 Dec 2011 01:35:34 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2011 : 02:00:17
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Anyone heard of his near-future endeavors? Would he still be visiting Candlekeep? Mods? |
Every beginning has an end. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2011 : 02:39:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
Anyone heard of his near-future endeavors? Would he still be visiting Candlekeep? Mods?
Well, his main declared reason for reducing his presence at Candlekeep was, at the time, because he was largely focused on investing more of his activity on the Wizards' boards.
With his position now being eliminated at Wizards, I'm not sure what his presence will be like on either site as a result.
Though, I'd imagine he would now have job-hunting concerns to occupy so much of his time. And I'd rather not pressure him to return until he's good and ready.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 17 Dec 2011 02:54:18 |
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arry
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
317 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2011 : 12:51:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
. . . I am very confident in what I happen to know is in the cards for the future.
I await this with interest and, I confess, a certain amount of trepidation. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36781 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2011 : 16:59:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
People don't always leave jobs because of layoffs. Yes, that's what was announced ... but RB has demonstrated a long and prolific career at WotC, the decision to let him go was probably discussed with him in great detail and was probably not undertaken lightly. He might have chosen to reprioritize his life/career path, perhaps he wants to explore other options, perhaps he's perceived some difficulties with continuing to work for Wizbro and is walking away before things get ugly, perhaps things already got ugly. Just sayin' that there might be all sorts of reasons for discontinuing his position at WotC and they may have little or nothing to do with the "product" itself. We can only speculate - and to be honest, it's really none of our business plus a little rude to press RB or the people at WotC for any details they haven't provided in their public announcement.
Well... His post was titled "Change of plans," which indicates that this was not something he had planned for. And as was pointed out in an email I just got from EN World, his prior blog post -- from the day before! -- mentions things that he was going to be doing, in his position at WotC. Things like "I am planning to begin weekly previews of a selection of units from the set around January 20th" and "We are beginning some work on a potential set 7" and "I expect I’ll probably pick things up again after the new year, with some previews on Axis & Allies Air Force Miniatures. See you all on the flight line!" all indicate that he thought he was going to be there a while longer.
Which makes this an unexpected, two weeks until Christmas layoff. I'll not trot out the tired meme that WotC is evil, but I have enough data to say that's bad form on their part. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Matt James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
918 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2011 : 20:42:38
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| Ayrik, Rich didn't leave under any of the conditions you hypothesized. |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2011 : 00:51:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Kris the Grey
Erik,
Don't get me wrong. I'm not talking a restart/re-boot (I leave those to our varied homebrewed campaigns). Mine is more of the idea of having multiple time frames (all able to be consistent within one overarching canon) co-existing at once across multiple platforms. I know that that is legally complex, but not legally impossible. Think Star Wars. All sorts of entities produce product for that universe across a huge span of time, but all operate under the same Lucas defined roof.
This is certainly an interesting idea, Kris--one that deserves more consideration. I suspect it'd be more useful to have a designated thread for it--maybe one in General Realms Chat?
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7974 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2011 : 04:50:32
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| Matt, I wasn't trying to start any vicious rumours or anything. I was just trying to say that it is not right for us to automatically jump to the conclusion that the evil faceless megacorp is swinging an axe. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36781 Posts |
Posted - 18 Dec 2011 : 05:43:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Matt, I wasn't trying to start any vicious rumours or anything. I was just trying to say that it is not right for us to automatically jump to the conclusion that the evil faceless megacorp is swinging an axe.
I'll back up this one -- with prior WotC layoffs, that's often been the first reaction. Usually we've not had any more info than the fact that people were now unemployed -- this is a rare case for the general public, where we do know it wasn't something planned by the now-unemployed person. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Matt James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
918 Posts |
Posted - 19 Dec 2011 : 02:00:53
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| Ayrik, I know. I should have extrapolated. I was just wanted to confim. |
Edited by - Matt James on 19 Dec 2011 02:01:36 |
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Staff Position Elimination at WotC
