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jordanz
Senior Scribe
553 Posts |
 Posted - 24 Nov 2011 : 20:39:47
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I've always been intrigued with those that have been pulling strings from behind the scenes to manipulate events on a grand scale. Who do you guys think are some of the biggest Masterminds and Manipulators in the Realms?
My thoughts....
Biggest Mortal Manipulators and Masterminds:
Manshoon - persistence personified
Elminister- master of benevolent manipulation?
Biggest outsider/divine Manipulators and Masterminds:
Cyric ..pulled of the improbable
Asmodeus- most calculated and conniving being in the realms?
Vecna...Always has a one up on just about anyone?
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Seethyr
Master of Realmslore
USA
1151 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2011 : 23:21:47
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| Pretty much all of the baatezu are from the lowliest imp on up. But of all of the fiends, I think Soneilon(sp?) and Malkizid were two who really pulled some strings. |
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Matt James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
918 Posts |
Posted - 24 Nov 2011 : 23:41:45
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Seethyr, you don't know how much respect you just gained in my eyes for mentioning Malkzid. I would actually place him above Sonneillon, but for reasons that are currently under NDA (muhahahahahahaha)
*cough* |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7970 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2011 : 01:15:59
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| I'd like to nominate good ol' Tyranthraxus. Quite a busy fellow, although I suppose military conquest is more his style than subversive persuasions. |
[/Ayrik] |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
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Steven Schend
Forgotten Realms Designer & Author
USA
1707 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2011 : 02:58:25
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quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Khelben.
'Nuff said!
Indeed.
Unless you're going by girth/waist/general volume of bodily space, where the scales tip toward Mirt being by far the biggest manipulator outside of genus draco.... 
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For current projects and general natter, see www.steveneschend.com
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7970 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2011 : 03:37:20
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| Pulling strings from behind the scenes to manipulate events on a grand scale has always been the hallmark of Mask, of course. He's quite a sneaky bastard, actually. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7970 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2011 : 04:00:35
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| Although they possess power and are doubtlessly capable of manipulating it, I don't see either one actually doing anything manipulative on a grand scale. They continue to survive, and continue to do what they do, but they largely don't do it through any manipulation of grand events, not in any obvious way. Largely because so little is written of them in the fiction. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Hoondatha
Great Reader
USA
2449 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2011 : 04:04:45
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| Well, in his day the Terraseer played Netheril like a well-tuned harp. He might not be doing much right now, but for that alone I think he deserves at least a special mention. |
Doggedly converting 3e back to what D&D should be...
Sigh... And now 4e as well. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2011 : 04:25:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
No love for Larloch or the Terraseer?
Larloch. Nearly nothing is revealed about his schemes, but Ed himself hinted that there are a lot; that powerful beings even unwittingly become his pawns/puppets. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2011 : 04:34:34
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Larloch is a clear contender, for sure.
Ed's answers imply that Larloch MAY have some plots, but if he does, they're so wide-reaching, complicated, and clandestine that virtually no one in the Realms [including the Chosen] knows what they are.
One of his current [pre Spellplague, I'd presume] 'plots' revolves around controlling portals and portal networks throughout Faerūn. He's looking at controlling the gates indirectly. In the sense that he'll be doing a couple of things:-
1. Monitoring people movement; who goes where and more importantly, why;
2. Putting in place magics to control creatures or people using 'his' portals, or at the very least access their knowledge/memories;
3. Using his knowledge of portals and portal networks to bring groups or individuals into conflict and thereby benefiting from the fallout.
All of this is intended to be done without the hand of Larloch being apparent. But does, also, place Larloch in a position where he could, potentially, affect just about everyone and everything. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 25 Nov 2011 04:36:02 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2011 : 04:39:12
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Which brings up a question: Is his vast knowledge about portals purely the result of his centuries of magical research and experimentation? Or did he somehow find an Imaskari tome/tablet that held secrets about the nature and power of portals? |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7970 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2011 : 04:42:17
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Then again, Larloch might have nothing going on at all beyond a single scheme to misinform the Chosen (including Elminster, who in turn misinforms Ed) into believing that he's an incomprehensibly sophisticated mastermind, just so they leave him alone or waste their energies vigilantly searching for something which isn't there.
At least Mask, for the most part it seems, is well aware of all the layers and layers of contingency plots he's set into motion, and even when he isn't really sure what's happening (because, say, a lot of developments hinge around the somewhat unpredictable behaviour of his Chosen), he's still designed things so well that they somehow still manage to more or less accomplish his original objectives anyhow. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 25 Nov 2011 04:43:31 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2011 : 11:38:43
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Sammaster and Szass Tam deserve a special mention, too. Convincing an intelligent race [dragons] who think of humans (living and undead alike) as their inferiors is no easy task, let alone pulling the strings of some puppets to "re-activate" The Rage. And as for Szass Tam...it definitely required a great deal of skill and power to subtly manipulate his fellow zulkirs, who were true masters of their own school of specialization. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Seethyr
Master of Realmslore
USA
1151 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2011 : 15:34:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Matt James
Seethyr, you don't know how much respect you just gained in my eyes for mentioning Malkzid. I would actually place him above Sonneillon, but for reasons that are currently under NDA (muhahahahahahaha)
*cough*
Lol thank you, and your...ehhhh hint has got me kind of excited. As evil as he was, I was kind of upset to see Malkizid disappear. In a way, he manipulated an entire race. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2011 : 15:38:05
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| I once speculated that Larloch may be containing something, and Ed indirectly confirmed that. |
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 25 Nov 2011 : 16:22:46
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| Elminster, Khelben |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2011 : 09:49:05
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I don't know, but Khelben struck me as a little bit uncaring and just waiting for his goddess's instructions. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2011 : 12:00:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
I don't know, but Khelben struck me as a little bit uncaring and just waiting for his goddess's instructions.
I'd argue that Khelben's long-reaching manipulations are in fact because he cares greatly for what occurs in the Realms.
The perception that he is "uncaring," I think, seems to come from the fact that the Blackstaff is often thinking six or seven moves ahead of everyone else. He simply doesn't have the time to appreciate the here and now -- for the most part -- when he's too preoccupied with controlling what's to come. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 26 Nov 2011 12:03:22 |
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The Hooded One
Lady Herald of Realmslore
5056 Posts |
Posted - 26 Nov 2011 : 15:41:10
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. . . and Ed says. "Bingo! Dead-on correct!" to that, Sage.
In the past, I've heard Ed decribe Khelben as the "James T. Kirk of the Realms." One may not always agree with his manner or even his courses of action, but he cares deeply. His caring drives and motivates him.
As it does for Elminster. The two Chosen just have very different styles.
As can be seen in the scene Ed snuck into the Knights trilogy, where El and Khelben argue about how they should proceed, until a certain Sister (of the Seven) sets them straight. 
love,
THO |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7970 Posts |
Posted - 27 Nov 2011 : 01:15:47
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| Would that be a masterfully manipulative hooded sister, perchance? |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 27 Nov 2011 01:19:23 |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3286 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2011 : 10:00:41
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How about the local tavern owner.
Lots of stuff start in the Taverns and Bars of the Realms.
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"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2011 : 10:09:37
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Nah. They're merely contacts. In other words, pawns. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2011 : 15:14:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Brimstone
How about the local tavern owner.
Lots of stuff start in the Taverns and Bars of the Realms.
and in Skyrim |
Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3286 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2011 : 16:44:14
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| Indeed! |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author
USA
4598 Posts |
Posted - 28 Nov 2011 : 17:55:42
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I like manipulator villains, as evidenced by my work. If you know who I'm talking about, trust me, you'll see more of him.
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
Ed's answers imply that Larloch MAY have some plots, but if he does, they're so wide-reaching, complicated, and clandestine that virtually no one in the Realms [including the Chosen] knows what they are.
One of his current [pre Spellplague, I'd presume] 'plots' revolves around controlling portals and portal networks throughout Faerūn. He's looking at controlling the gates indirectly.
Pre- and Post-Spellplague, actually.
It's not canon, so I won't go into too much detail, but this is a subplot in the 4e FR campaign I'm running now. Wherein the PCs get to see the endgame of Larloch's long-running schemes, which they might thwart--or might allow or even help, depending on how one looks at it.
Cheers |
Erik Scott de Bie
'Tis easier to destroy than to create.
Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars" |
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Alystra Illianniis
Great Reader
USA
3750 Posts |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2011 : 01:03:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie
It's not canon, so I won't go into too much detail, but this is a subplot in the 4e FR campaign I'm running now. Wherein the PCs get to see the endgame of Larloch's long-running schemes, which they might thwart--or might allow or even help, depending on how one looks at it.
Actually, Erik, if you don't mind, I'd like to hear more about this campaign, when you have the time. Either as a PM or email, if you're concerned about some of your players maybe reading particulars about the subplot here at Candlekeep.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Sandro
Learned Scribe
New Zealand
266 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2011 : 07:46:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Alystra Illianniis
El, definitely. He's been manipulating the people of Cormyr for centuries, after all- particularly the crowned heads....
I guess it depends on whether you want to grant more credit to El, who perhaps did more discernible manipulation over a shorter time, or to guys like Larloch, Halaster, the Terraseer et al. whose methods are more subtle and far-reaching (and therefore of less visible impact to the Realms themselves) and yet have been orchestrated since long before El was the last prince of Athalantar, let alone the Sage of Shadowdale. |
"Gods, little fishes, and spells to turn the one to the other," Mordenkainen sighed. "It's started already..." |
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Lady Shadowflame
Learned Scribe
115 Posts |
Posted - 29 Nov 2011 : 14:27:31
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Somewhere a bit further down the list, Jarlaxle. He manipulates all kinds of things. That trick he pulled with King Gareth Dragonsbane of Damara? Spectacular. He basically skips in, schemes his way through a place, then prances out again, laughing all the way at the chaos and confusion he leaves behind.
I don't think doing it for the lulz makes him any less manipulative. |
Save a lizard... Ride a drow.
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Topic |
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Biggest Masterminds and Manipulators in the Realms
