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drkissinger1
Acolyte
USA
32 Posts |
 Posted - 29 Aug 2010 : 19:57:24
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To get a better feel for returned Netheril, I decided to take a gander at the RotA trilogy, especially as it was written by Denning (Waterdeep and Crucible are my favorite D&D novels).
However, having now reached the end of the second book, I find myself pretty bored with the series and can't see myself reading the third. Can anyone quickly run down the main points of what transpires between the destruction of Tilverton and the end of the third book? The quickest of summaries will suffice, though I am especially interested in Malik and his activities (being a Cyric connoisseur myself).
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Copper Elven Vampire
Master of Realmslore
1078 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2010 : 21:14:25
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| The third book is the best of the series!!! Finish the trilogy! |
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2010 : 03:51:39
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| you can do a search here in the keep for a couple of rather lengthy discussions on this series, both for and against |
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IngoDjan
Learned Scribe
Brazil
146 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2010 : 05:23:33
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| I didn't like this book. |
Ingo Djan
DUNGEON MASTER AO OF THE DIAMONDS!"I see the future repeat the past. It all is a museum of great news. The Time do not stop." |
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Hawkins
Great Reader
USA
2131 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2010 : 06:09:55
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| You should definitely finish the trilogy. I don't remember if it was my favorite, but it was definitely worth finishing. |
Errant d20 Designer - My Blog (last updated January 06, 2016)
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drkissinger1
Acolyte
USA
32 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2010 : 14:59:13
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I honestly think my problem is with the magical battle scenes. I love the characters of Galaeron, Vala, Aris, and especially Malik, but whenever the war scenes begin between the Shadovar, Phaerimm, or Khelben's forces, I skip forward.
Not that I'm squeamish or have no taste for battle. I love visceral fight scenes. For some reason magical battle on a large scale just doesn't do it for me. |
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Ergdusch
Master of Realmslore
Germany
1720 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2010 : 16:56:47
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Cannot help you with this one. I myself have not read this trilogy yet though the books are already on my to-read-shelf. Your post does not very much inspire me to read them anytime soon....
Lukely I have up to a dozen other books waiting there as well, so I will not be left without options in the near future! |
"Das Gras weht im Wind, wenn der Wind weht." |
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Sith_Lord_Drizzt
Seeker
Canada
92 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2010 : 17:07:40
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| I really liked the series. In my opinion it's definitely worth reading! |
"Jarlaxle's grin disappeared as he turned his attention to Drizzt. He watched the fury of the drow unleashed. Jarlaxle had seen Drizzt in action many times before, but never like that".
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drkissinger1
Acolyte
USA
32 Posts |
Posted - 30 Aug 2010 : 18:12:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Ergdusch
Cannot help you with this one. I myself have not read this trilogy yet though the books are already on my to-read-shelf. Your post does not very much inspire me to read them anytime soon....
Lukely I have up to a dozen other books waiting there as well, so I will not be left without options in the near future!
Don't get me wrong, I'm pretty sure I'm in the minority here. The characters are still worth getting attached to (again, especially Malik), and if you like magical warfare, there's nothing to be disappointed about. Denning is still one of the most talented FR authors out there. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2010 : 00:12:40
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quote:
Originally posted by drkissinger1
quote:
Originally posted by Ergdusch
Cannot help you with this one. I myself have not read this trilogy yet though the books are already on my to-read-shelf. Your post does not very much inspire me to read them anytime soon....
Lukely I have up to a dozen other books waiting there as well, so I will not be left without options in the near future!
Don't get me wrong, I'm pretty sure I'm in the minority here. The characters are still worth getting attached to (again, especially Malik), and if you like magical warfare, there's nothing to be disappointed about. Denning is still one of the most talented FR authors out there.
I've never done a real comparison of people who like or dislike those books, but you're not necessarily in a minority. I don't know what the like/dislike split is, but I know I'm not the only person who really didn't like those books.
I've found that Troy Denning is very much hit-or-miss. I've enjoyed some of his stuff, and I've hated some of his stuff -- one of his books is among the very few Realms novels I wanted to hurl across the room when I was done with it, because I was that unsatisfied with the ending. |
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Tyrant
Senior Scribe
USA
586 Posts |
Posted - 31 Aug 2010 : 01:17:41
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I would try to finish the trilogy.
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Peace is a lie, there is only passion. Through passion, I gain strength. Through strength, I gain power. Through power, I gain victory. Through victory, my chains are broken. The Force shall free me.
-The Sith Code
Teenage Sith zombies, Tulkh thought-how in the moons of Bogden had it all started? Every so often, the universe must just get bored and decide to really cut loose. -Star Wars: Red Harvest |
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swifty
Senior Scribe
United Kingdom
517 Posts |
Posted - 04 Sep 2010 : 08:01:23
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| never have istruggled to get through a series as much as this one.considering the storyline its ludicrously dull. |
go back to sleep america.everything is under control.heres american gladiators.watch this.shuttup. BILL HICKS. |
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Ghaunadaur
Acolyte
4 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2010 : 00:52:12
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In the first part of the novel (chapter 1-14), Galaeron, Aris and Ruha manage to infiltrate Shade with the intention of destroying its Mythal Stone and freeing Vala. They manage to smuggle the Chosen of Mystra into Shade by magically shrinking them, swallowing them before they enter Shade and then puking them out once they're inside the city (no joke, it's really in the novel). Once in Shade, Aris has to work as a slave for Malik, sculpting artwork for Malik's Temple of the One and All. The princes of shade then turn on Malik and try to force him to convert to Shar. He refuses and is chained to the Karsestone, which now serves as the main altar of Shar in her temple in Shade.
In the meantime Vala is rescued by the Chosen of Mystra and joins Galaeron and the Chosen as they assault Shade's Mythal Stone. They almost bring down the floating city but are repelled by the princes of shade and Telamont. During the assault the city almost capsizes, hurling Malik and the Karsestone out into the desert below Shade, where he is saved and conveniently captured by Ruha. Vala, Galaeron, Aris and the Chosen of Mystra manage to flee from Shade and travel to Evereska which is still besieged by the Phaerimm.
In Chapter 14 the Harper Ruha departs "for Twilight Hall with Malik chained to her wrist", and that's the last we see of them in the novel. They are not mentioned again.
Also, during the first part of the novel, Takari is teleported to Evereska and is reunited with Keya, Galaeron's sister. Takari seduces a Vaasan in order to get pregnant, so she can use one of their heritage obsidian swords against the Phaerimm (again, no joke, it's in the novel). The Phaerimm breach Evereska's Mythal and start invading the city perimeter.
The second half of the novel (chapter 15-20) deals with the final stand against the Phaerimm in Evereska. Basically just nonstop action, which at one point even involves time travel after the entire city is destroyed in a magical explosion.
The Chosen of Mystra and Galaeron's band manage to bring down the mysterious leader of the Phaerimms, and without leadership, the rest of the Phaerimms scatter and flee from Evereska. The Chosen of Mystra restore the Mythal of Evereska using silver fire, and Galaeron departs for Vaasa with Vala, Keya and Takari. The fate of Aris is not really mentioned, just that he survived the final battle.
All in all, I can not recommend "The Sorcerer". It's completely over-the-top, and not in a funny way either. I was pretty grossed out by it (by the entire trilogy, to be honest), thankfully the next thing I read after this was the Erevis Cale trilogy followed by Last Mythal, which managed to restore my faith in FR novels. |
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Danny Glick
Acolyte
USA
18 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2010 : 03:39:07
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"I've found that Troy Denning is very much hit-or-miss. I've enjoyed some of his stuff, and I've hated some of his stuff -- one of his books is among the very few Realms novels I wanted to hurl across the room when I was done with it, because I was that unsatisfied with the ending." --Wooly Rupert
I believe FACES OF DECEPTION was the novel in question. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2010 : 04:03:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Danny Glick
"I've found that Troy Denning is very much hit-or-miss. I've enjoyed some of his stuff, and I've hated some of his stuff -- one of his books is among the very few Realms novels I wanted to hurl across the room when I was done with it, because I was that unsatisfied with the ending." --Wooly Rupert
I believe FACES OF DECEPTION was the novel in question.
Some people very much love that novel. I am not among them. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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jornan
Learned Scribe
Canada
256 Posts |
Posted - 06 Sep 2010 : 12:10:25
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I too had a difficult time finishing this trilogy. As someone else mentioned, considering what it was about, it WAS incredibly boring. Given Paul Kemps outstanding take on Shade enclave post this trilogy, its a shame that he wasn't around to write it at the time.
I did however like the appearance of past FR characters from Dennings work, like Ruha and Malik.
on another note, I quite enjoyed Faces of Deception. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2010 : 19:14:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Danny Glick
"I've found that Troy Denning is very much hit-or-miss. I've enjoyed some of his stuff, and I've hated some of his stuff -- one of his books is among the very few Realms novels I wanted to hurl across the room when I was done with it, because I was that unsatisfied with the ending." --Wooly Rupert
I believe FACES OF DECEPTION was the novel in question.
Some people very much love that novel. I am not among them.
Oh, might as well delete it from my TO READ LIST.
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Every beginning has an end. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2010 : 19:16:07
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quote:
Originally posted by jornan
Given Paul Kemps outstanding take on Shade enclave post this trilogy, its a shame that he wasn't around to write it at the time.
While I like this trilogy, I believe Paul would have made it way better, grand even. If not Paul, there’s Richard. Those two have a knack on character development. Only Paul managed to “give more flesh” to the Shadovar. Troy’s depiction of the shades is sometimes shallow, bordering on intangibility.
Edit: Just some things better left unsaid...
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Every beginning has an end. |
Edited by - Dennis on 07 Sep 2010 21:09:28 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2010 : 19:21:49
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quote:
Originally posted by drkissinger1
I honestly think my problem is with the magical battle scenes. I love the characters of Galaeron, Vala, Aris, and especially Malik, but whenever the war scenes begin between the Shadovar, Phaerimm, or Khelben's forces, I skip forward.
Not that I'm squeamish or have no taste for battle. I love visceral fight scenes. For some reason magical battle on a large scale just doesn't do it for me.
Then I don’t think you should read ‘The Sorcerer,’ as the last book of the series is fraught with magical battle scenes as the second. I *must* point out that the magical battles of grand scale are to be expected. This is the return of the people from Netheril, the Empire of Magic. You cannot expect them to fight the phaerimm throwing kitchen knives and ladles.
RotA happens to be one of my favorite series, as I am partial to almost all things Netherese. (In fact, in my second novel, one of the greatest empires I made was inspired by Netheril: Wenthor, the Empire of the Wind.) Having read The Netheril trilogy, though I like that series, too, particularly book 2, I still thought, well, it doesn’t make sense to efface an entire empire that was renowned and feared by its magical strength, and even considered the greatest (perhaps even greater than the old Imaskar). RotA somehow erases that absurdity, albeit just partially.
The final battle in this book, however, is a little bit disappointing. How on Toril can a mere demented elf manage to hurt Telamont - one thing that even the Chosen were not able to do? While it stands to reason that the 12 princes and the High Prince were to survive any fights in the series, I think it’s too much that Khelben and some of the seven did *not* manage to slay even one or two of the princes; there’s the twins Vattick and Mattick, who, if you’d ask me, are useless.
Here are a few things that I consider rather appealing:
-The return of the Netherese itself.
-The conflict between the phaerimm and the Shades. It’s time that the Netherese can finally exact revenge on the ruthless creatures. (If you think of it, it’s not really Karsus who brought about the destruction of the empire. If the phaerimm didn’t savage the empire with their lifedrain, Karsus would not have resorted to cast Karsus’s Avatar.)
-The involvement of Waterdeep, Cormyr (two of my favorite realms), and Evareska (though I would have liked it more had Evareska been totally and irredeemably destroyed. Other than I despise FR elves, such destruction is rather befitting a mark of the return of the new menace in the Realms, than the annihilation of the inconsequential Tilverton.
-The absence of Elminster in books 2 and 3. We’ve seen the man in almost all realms-shaking events; and it’s a welcome change to find his absence for once. (Besides, El in Hell wouldn’t have been written, which would have been a real shame. I like that book)
-The participation and eventual subjugation of Malygris and the cult of the dragon. I like this part of the 3rd book:
quote:
From the last page of The Sorcerer
Telamont pointed at the floor by his feet, and Malygris found himself clattering over to lay his magnificent chin on the cold stone. He thought instantly of the amulet the cult priests used to control him, but it was not hanging from the Most High's neck. Telamont Tanthul had his own magic.
"Shade is here to stay."
"Shade is here to stay," Malygris found himself repeating.
I think it’s sort of incomplete not to include dragons in any RSEs. The only RSE-series I read that does not involve dragons is the Haunted Lands trilogy. (But come to think of it, what need does Szass Tam have of dragons when his formidable legions of undead are more than enough?)
-The participation of Khelben. His opportune rescue of Evareska and attempt to bring Shade Enclave down reaffirmed my like for this grim, sometimes humorous, and often impetuous wizard.
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Every beginning has an end. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2010 : 00:22:53
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quote:
Originally posted by dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Danny Glick
"I've found that Troy Denning is very much hit-or-miss. I've enjoyed some of his stuff, and I've hated some of his stuff -- one of his books is among the very few Realms novels I wanted to hurl across the room when I was done with it, because I was that unsatisfied with the ending." --Wooly Rupert
I believe FACES OF DECEPTION was the novel in question.
Some people very much love that novel. I am not among them.
Oh, might as well delete it from my TO READ LIST.
Well, I can see that you like the RotA books -- and I couldn't stand them. So my taste may not be the best measure for you. Besides, while I won't always encourage people to read some books, I try not to discourage them, either. Everyone's taste is unique, and what one person hates another may love. So Faces of Deception may work for you, as it has worked for many others. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2010 : 10:54:01
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| Important to add to Ghaunadaur's post, in the end Shar grabs the Karsestone, Cyric fails, Evereska's mythal is now composed of both Weaves and the Shade's mythallar is cracked. Hadrhune is an elf, and Galaeron freed a sharn. From what I remember, it's been a long time. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2010 : 12:32:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by dennis
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Danny Glick
"I've found that Troy Denning is very much hit-or-miss. I've enjoyed some of his stuff, and I've hated some of his stuff -- one of his books is among the very few Realms novels I wanted to hurl across the room when I was done with it, because I was that unsatisfied with the ending." --Wooly Rupert
I believe FACES OF DECEPTION was the novel in question.
Some people very much love that novel. I am not among them.
Oh, might as well delete it from my TO READ LIST.
Well, I can see that you like the RotA books -- and I couldn't stand them. So my taste may not be the best measure for you. Besides, while I won't always encourage people to read some books, I try not to discourage them, either. Everyone's taste is unique, and what one person hates another may love. So Faces of Deception may work for you, as it has worked for many others.
Good point. But that book is at the bottom five of my list, which means matters not much if I delete it… I’ve a friend who does not like it either. I just bought it from a Booksale, anyway. Doesn’t cost that much. I might in the far future give it a try, a chapter or two maybe. And if it tastes bad for me, then to the trash bin it shall go…
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Every beginning has an end. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2010 : 12:48:50
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quote:
Originally posted by dennis
Good point. But that book is at the bottom five of my list, which means matters not much if I delete it… I’ve a friend who does not like it either. I just bought it from a Booksale, anyway. Doesn’t cost that much. I might in the far future give it a try, a chapter or two maybe. And if it tastes bad for me, then to the trash bin it shall go…
Fair enough. I'm a big fan of informed decisions, so I encourage people to try things before they form an opinion. Of course that bit me in the backside with the 4E Realms, but oh well! |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 08 Sep 2010 : 13:03:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by dennis
Good point. But that book is at the bottom five of my list, which means matters not much if I delete it… I’ve a friend who does not like it either. I just bought it from a Booksale, anyway. Doesn’t cost that much. I might in the far future give it a try, a chapter or two maybe. And if it tastes bad for me, then to the trash bin it shall go…
Fair enough. I'm a big fan of informed decisions, so I encourage people to try things before they form an opinion. Of course that bit me in the backside with the 4E Realms, but oh well!
Some things I can give a try, some never will. FR novels featuring to horrendous details the elves, like Evermeet and The Last Mythal trilogy, no thanks. Even if my favorite, RLE, will write a novel or worse, a series with these ludicrous creatures as the heroes, still, no thanks.
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Every beginning has an end. |
Edited by - Dennis on 08 Sep 2010 13:05:07 |
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Spoil Return of the Archwizards for me!
