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Penknight
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USA
538 Posts

Posted - 12 Aug 2009 :  13:48:50  Show Profile Send Penknight a Private Message  Reply with Quote  Delete Topic
I was reading over some things in Races of Faerun about fey'ri and remembering why I like them so much. Then I started reading about tieflings when a queston came into my mind: If a tiefling and a fey'ri were to have an offspring, what exactly would its race be? And one more question so I can keep it all straight: If a fey'ri and a half-fiend (or a fey'ri and a fiend) were to mate, what is the child going to be?

Telethian Phoenix
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Edited by - Penknight on 12 Aug 2009 13:50:09

Kuje
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Posted - 12 Aug 2009 :  17:24:15  Show Profile Send Kuje a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Doesn't think there's a straight answer to this but to me I'd make it either or. So if a tiefling and a fey'ri mated I'd make the offspring either a tiefling or a fey'ri with some characteristics of both. Same with the half-fiend and fey'ri. Now as for a fiend and a fey'ri, I'd say those only make another fey'ri.

For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird

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Penknight
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538 Posts

Posted - 13 Aug 2009 :  02:59:34  Show Profile Send Penknight a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ok, thank you, Kuje. I've never found it in a book that actually gives a straight answer on how to determine what a child is based off of the parents unless it's obvious, like an elf and a human child.

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Pathfinder Reference Document
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Kuje
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Posted - 13 Aug 2009 :  03:38:45  Show Profile Send Kuje a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Penknight

Ok, thank you, Kuje. I've never found it in a book that actually gives a straight answer on how to determine what a child is based off of the parents unless it's obvious, like an elf and a human child.



You're welcome and yeah, I can't recall any lore that gives an straight answer about this.

For some of us, books are as important as almost anything else on earth. What a miracle it is that out of these small, flat, rigid squares of paper unfolds world after world, worlds that sing to you, comfort and quiet and excite you... Books are full of the things that you don't get in real life - wonderful, lyrical language, for instance, right off the bat. - Anne Lamott, Bird by Bird

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Hawkins
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Posted - 14 Aug 2009 :  19:46:37  Show Profile  Visit Hawkins's Homepage Send Hawkins a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Just to add weight (or none, depending on if you know me and how you view my opinions) to what Kuje said, I agree with him.

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Zanan
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Germany
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Posted - 14 Aug 2009 :  21:38:57  Show Profile  Visit Zanan's Homepage Send Zanan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Cloak & Dagger is a great source for fey'ri and daemonfey knowledge, some of which has made it into RoF and other books. Tieflings ... and fey'ri are essentially nothing but elven tieflings ... will keep their AD&D or 3E outlook in my games. Speaking of which, tieflings that is, Pathfinder is less distinct with the pedigree of such native outsiders (remember Magadon (i.e. the tiefling of the Erevis Cale saga and his father being an Archdevil), saying that the fiends themselves may actually have a word in how much of their essence will be present in the child - or, on the other hand, their wily nature itself will determine that. Hence there are tieflings and half-fiends about. (And no, PF tieflings do not have horns and tails by default ...)

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Jakk
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Posted - 15 Aug 2009 :  00:20:09  Show Profile Send Jakk a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kuje

quote:
Originally posted by Penknight

Ok, thank you, Kuje. I've never found it in a book that actually gives a straight answer on how to determine what a child is based off of the parents unless it's obvious, like an elf and a human child.



You're welcome and yeah, I can't recall any lore that gives an straight answer about this.



To make matters worse, it hasn't been consistent across editions. In 3E and 3.5, the child of an elf and a half-elf is always a half-elf, and the child of a human and a half-elf is always a human. In 2E and 1E, IIRC, the race of the children of such pairings was determined by flipping a coin, essentially, much like gender, so a pair of twins born to a biracial couple could be of different races. I always thought that this was rather strange, and I like the 3.x approach given above, which I apply to all standard-race pairings for which offspring is possible.

For outsiders, as has been mentioned already, things are more complicated. For your initial question regarding the offspring of a tiefling and a fey'ri, I would treat this as similar to the human-elf pairing... the problem being that we don't have a half-elf equivalent fiendspawn race. In this situation, I would apply the coin-flip solution employed in 1E and 2E. It's not perfect, and not entirely consistent with the way the other crossbreed rules work, but it's a solution.

Penknight's second question, imho, is actually simpler than the first, based on the same logic given above. A fey'ri or tiefling and a half-fiend will produce fey'ri or tiefling offspring, and a fey'ri or tiefling and a fiend will produce half-fiend offspring. This is essentially the same solution given by Kuje earlier; I've just generalized it a bit more. This, of course, depends on the issues raised by Zanan regarding the possibility of the outsider being able to control the amount of their essence absorbed by the child before birth.

Anyway, that's what I've got. Apart from that (largely my own extrapolations, apart from the bit about half-elves), I'm with Kuje; there is no lore that I can think of that conclusively answers the question. Have fun establishing your own ground rules, and I'm interested in seeing whatever you come up with. I may have a go at it myself, if I have time...

Playing in the Realms since the Old Grey Box (1987)... and *still* having fun with material published before 2008, despite the NDA'd lore.

If it's comparable in power with non-magical abilities, it's not magic.

Edited by - Jakk on 15 Aug 2009 00:24:09
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Penknight
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USA
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Posted - 15 Aug 2009 :  02:26:47  Show Profile Send Penknight a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Thank you, gentlemen! I really appreciate your information on this matter. I've often wondered about how these things work out, though I could never keep it straight on parent/child situations. I even think part of my problem was the 1E/2E rules were whispering in my mind, and then I had 3.xE doing the same.

And Jakk, if you have the time and you do work on this, I'd really like for you to post your thoughts and ideas here that I could look them over and learn from them.

Hawkins, I actually have seen your opinion on different matters, and have always nodded in agreement with most of your posts. The weight you wished to give this matter has been successfully applied, my friend.

Zanan, thank you for your insights also. I myself actually draw from Cloak & Dagger for some of my ideas with them. I just wish that a bit more of that book had factored into making the race for 3E.

Gentlemen, to quote Larloch, "I return now to my Art inspired," and I really thank all of you for your time.

And for a Columbo moment of, "Oh, one more thing," my player was talking about playing a fey'ri in a future campaign but hates the LA of the race. I know that in 2nd Edition not all fey'ri had wings. If we were to take wings away from his character, would that lower the LA by 1 at least?

Telethian Phoenix
Pathfinder Reference Document

Edited by - Penknight on 15 Aug 2009 02:29:21
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Laerrigan
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Posted - 08 Sep 2009 :  19:03:50  Show Profile  Visit Laerrigan's Homepage Send Laerrigan a Private Message  Reply with Quote
IIRC, fully-functional wings do carry a +1 LA, according to Savage Species, but I don't have it on hand to be absolutely sure.

Also in keeping with that book, I'll toss in here that---being a proud nerd---I absolutely love decompiling creatures (including races) and tweaking and merging them in various ways. I'd say average the numerical stat bonuses of whatever parents you're looking at, and do something similar with non-numerical stuff (special abilities and whatnot), then decide just what kind of LA you want to shoot for (and what niche you want the race to fill, such as whether they can walk around with minimal disguising without people shielding their children and trying to kill the freak) and pare things down from there. And shift the qualities even further in one direction or another if you want it to more greatly reflect a particular aspect of one parent.

Or, for a bit of fun and variety (because who really likes blended vanilla all the time?), throw random traits from each parent into the mix and don't bother averaging anything. Savage Species gives guidelines for handling all sorts of traits and the LAs that accompany them. Then again, a mutual friend says I like to complicate things, so you may want to ignore everything I've just said in the interest of remaining sane and non-nerdish.

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Ghost King
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Posted - 08 Sep 2009 :  19:59:42  Show Profile  Visit Ghost King's Homepage Send Ghost King a Private Message  Reply with Quote
My opinion is kind of how my old group handle this thing. If a gold elf and a drow were to mate, for example, then it would be either a drow or a gold elf, but not a crossbreed. Same would probably be for fey'ri or tieflings and whatever else shares common traits. From what I read on the fey'ri they are the tieflings of the elves (more specifically the gold elves). You'd probably just get a tiefling then if they mated. Or you can go with the flip a coin approach.

But I'm a person that just likes to keep things stream-lined and simple to get to playing the game then boging it down to entertain things that normally have no bearing what-so-ever to game play.

Edited by - Ghost King on 08 Sep 2009 20:00:12
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author

USA
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Posted - 08 Sep 2009 :  21:52:49  Show Profile  Visit Erik Scott de Bie's Homepage Send Erik Scott de Bie a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It all hinges on whether in your game you would consider a demon-tainted half-elf as a tiefling or a fey'ri.

Here's the logic:

Tiefling = human with demon/devil heritage. It says nothing of other heritages (so in theory, you could have elf blood in your background, or dwarf blood, or dragon blood, or whatever). For purposes of this calculation, let's assume you are 90% human, 10% fiend.

Fey'ri = elf (usually a gold elf) with demon heritage. Again, it says nothing of other heritages, but we know that to be an *elf* you have to have at least mostly elf heritage (otherwise you'd be a half elf). For this calculation, let's assume you are 90% elf, 10% fiend.

I think also we're going to go by the rule that anything less than 50% elf is a human or half-elf, while anything more than 50% elf is a half-elf or an elf. (A human and a half-elf will produce either human or half-elf children, whereas an elf and a half-elf will produce either elf or half-elf children.)

Tiefling + Fey'ri = 90% human + 90% elf + 20% fiend / 2 = 45% human, 45% elf, 10% fiend.

As seems clear, no matter how much/little fiend your parents are, you (as the offspring) are never going to be over 50% elf, so it seems pretty much in every instance, you're going to have a demon-tainted human (tiefling) or a demon-tainted half-elf (???).

Leaving us with the question: is a demon-tainted half-elf a fey'ri or a tiefling?

We might apply, however, the rule from the Complete Book of Elves in 2e (I think? It's been a long time), then when figuring out bloodlines, elves are *pure-blooded* (that is, they have no human parents), whereas anything with at least a small percentage of human blood is actually a half-elf (or a human, if it has less than 50% elf heritage).

In this case, our tiefling/fey'ri mix would definitely have human blood, and thus could not under any circumstances be considered a fey'ri (because no matter how low the quantity of human heritage, it's still there keeping him/her from being an elf).

But that still leaves the question: is a demon/half-elf a fey'ri or a tiefling?

Also, canonically, if the fey'ri were initially created to keep the bloodline pure, then this seems to lend argument to the belief that you have to be a pureblood demon/elf mix to be a fey'ri.

Also, since humans can clearly have elf blood and still be human (like the Seven Sisters, for instance), I would posit that tieflings (who are basically humans with demon heritage) can have elf blood as well without compromising their humanity/tiefling-ness.

So in this--as in all things--my best advice is this: go with whatever makes the most sense in the game and is the most fun. If your PC wants a tiefling, great. If s/he wants a fey'ri, also great.

As long as you keep it cool for everyone.

Cheers


P.S. I posted all that because I really like fey'ri. Used one in my latest novel, in fact--but her pedigree (one full blooded elf mother, one demon/elf-crossbreed or possibly full-demonlord father) isn't terribly helpful to this discussion.

Erik Scott de Bie

'Tis easier to destroy than to create.

Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars"

Edited by - Erik Scott de Bie on 08 Sep 2009 21:55:00
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Penknight
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USA
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Posted - 08 Sep 2009 :  22:07:26  Show Profile Send Penknight a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm interested in the newest novel now! What's the name of it again, so I pick up the right one?

Telethian Phoenix
Pathfinder Reference Document
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author

USA
4598 Posts

Posted - 09 Sep 2009 :  00:40:45  Show Profile  Visit Erik Scott de Bie's Homepage Send Erik Scott de Bie a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I would be referring here to Downshadow.

And lest I earn a smack from the +5 staff of striking down shameless plugs . . .

Cheers

Erik Scott de Bie

'Tis easier to destroy than to create.

Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars"
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The Sage
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Posted - 09 Sep 2009 :  01:02:09  Show Profile Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm thinking, maybe, that we need to alter your custom title slightly, Erik. How does "Forgotten Realms Author and Master of Shameless Plugs" sound?

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Erik Scott de Bie
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Posted - 09 Sep 2009 :  06:05:08  Show Profile  Visit Erik Scott de Bie's Homepage Send Erik Scott de Bie a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

I'm thinking, maybe, that we need to alter your custom title slightly, Erik. How does "Forgotten Realms Author and Master of Shameless Plugs" sound?

Either that or "Peddler of Smut."

Have you counted the naked scenes in Downshadow? Honestly!

Cheers

Erik Scott de Bie

'Tis easier to destroy than to create.

Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars"
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The Sage
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Posted - 09 Sep 2009 :  08:12:10  Show Profile Send The Sage a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Erik Scott de Bie

quote:
Originally posted by The Sage

I'm thinking, maybe, that we need to alter your custom title slightly, Erik. How does "Forgotten Realms Author and Master of Shameless Plugs" sound?

Either that or "Peddler of Smut."

Have you counted the naked scenes in Downshadow? Honestly!

Cheers

I still have not had the chance to read it through completely. I've just been so snowed under with work, that I've had little time for anything else.

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Foxhelm
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Canada
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Posted - 11 Apr 2013 :  23:34:59  Show Profile Send Foxhelm a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Sorry for being late to the party, but from Races of Faerun page 112:

quote:
The offspring of two planetouched is always a planetouched. Mixed heritage planetouched of this sort takes after one or the other parent (seemingly equal chances), but carries traits of the other parent, which may show up in their children.


So Tiefling/Fey'ri cross is going to be either a Tiefling or Fey'ri, but carry the gene for fiendish bloodlines.

Or human, but that might need a better rule or something.

Other examples:

A Fire Genasi/Fey'ri will have a Fire Genasi or a Fey'ri but... the Fire Genasi might have Tiefling descendants and the Fey'ri might have Fire elemental Elven Planetouched.

An Aasimar/Fey'ri have Aasimar or Fey'ri kids but the Aasimar could have Tiefling kids and the Fey'ri could have good outsider elven planetouched children.


This is of course 3/3.5 edition, 4th or 5th editions may be different.

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TBeholder
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Posted - 12 Apr 2013 :  09:03:22  Show Profile Send TBeholder a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Daemonfey is a half-fiend and Fey'ri is a tiefling. Just a specific one, as opposed to "generic, usually human-based". Hence,
fey'ri (fiend-blooded elf) + daemonfey (half-fiend elf) -> (fiend-blooded elf) fey'ri, perhaps with more pronounced fiendish traits;
fey'ri (fiend-blooded elf) + other half-fiend -> (fiend-blooded half-elf) tiefling with some elven traits and more pronounced fiendish traits;
fey'ri (fiend-blooded elf) + other tiefling (fiend-blooded demihuman) -> (fiend-blooded half-elf) tiefling with some elven traits.

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sleyvas
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Posted - 12 Apr 2013 :  14:46:21  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
fey'ri + tiefling = fey'ling

sound it out :-)

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Ayrik
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Posted - 12 Apr 2013 :  19:16:32  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
AD&D 2E defined a half-elf as any human/elf mix with at least 50% elven blood. Less than 50% might mean pretty eyes and pointy ears but was otherwise treated as a "normal" human in every respect; more than 50% was just another half-elf, while the human taint would destroy elven racial purity no matter how diluted it became across the generations.

This definition has been argued and changed across subsequent editions ... but if you choose to apply it, then crossing tiefling (mostly human, a little fiend) with fey'ri (mostly gold elf, a little fiend) bloodlines basically results in tieflings with a few elven features.

I'm not into the fey'ling notion, aside from having an arrogant elfy character or two disdainfully apply the label to themselves or others, but then again I'm definitely no fan of elves and already do my best to ignore the presence of fey'ri/daemonfey ... not sure why we'd really need yet another blurred crossbreed of elven boundaries. I might even claim the two species are not interfertile, question answered in a boring but happy way.

On that topic, however, why would such a creature exist? Fey'ri likely possess the nastiest traits of their sun elf forebears, which means they'd be arrogant and sneering and manipulative in ways that only the most Machiavellian of normal elves could possibly understand ... such a haughty superior breed would certainly find all sorts of reasons to loathe other "inferior" tiefling species, I just can't see them bothering to multiply.

[/Ayrik]
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Gyor
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Posted - 13 Apr 2013 :  14:13:17  Show Profile Send Gyor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
You guys are forgetting what Asmodeaus did to the Tiefling race in 4e. Any child with a Tiefling is born a tiefling no matter what or who the other parent was.

So Tiefling + Fey're= Tiefling

Tiefling + Genasi= Tiefling

Tiefling + Giant= Tiefling

Tiefling + Doppelganger= Tiefling

Tiefling + Deva or Aasmir = Tiefling

Tiefling + Dragonborn = Tiefling.

This magically induced purity does make predicting the out come of any pairing with a Tiefling easy to predict.

One the other hand if one is guided by Shadowbane book, a Fey'ri and a Genasi having a child together could result in an abyss tainted Genasi like Sithe (who is my favourate Genasi). Voidsouled, Gravesouled, Causicsouled, Ashsouled and so on.

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Wooly Rupert
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Posted - 13 Apr 2013 :  14:23:27  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gyor

You guys are forgetting what Asmodeaus did to the Tiefling race in 4e. Any child with a Tiefling is born a tiefling no matter what or who the other parent was.



Or ignoring it as needlessly simplistic. Planetouched races are a lot more interesting when they don't all look the same.

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Gyor
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Posted - 13 Apr 2013 :  18:37:07  Show Profile Send Gyor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
True, but cannon its true. That being said it probably won't be for 5e at least not completely.
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore

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Posted - 13 Apr 2013 :  19:15:24  Show Profile Send Gyor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
True, but cannon its true. That being said it probably won't be for 5e at least not completely.
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Erik Scott de Bie
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Posted - 14 Apr 2013 :  20:31:36  Show Profile  Visit Erik Scott de Bie's Homepage Send Erik Scott de Bie a Private Message  Reply with Quote
"Daemonfey" is not the name of a race but a generic term to refer to House Dlardrageth and its minions. A half-fiend/half-sun elf and a 1/32nd demon-blooded elf might both be called "daemonfey." The point is that they share a similar basic genetic structure: some elf, some demon.

@Ayrik: I wrote an entire article about Fey'ri in 4e, which I think makes clear that they largely *don't* reproduce. After the disaster of Sarya's uprising, the back of the race was broken and its survivors scattered to the wind. However, Fey'ri are very long lived, and if and when they *do* mate with non-Fey'ri, they tend to produce more Fey'ri. It might be that Fey'ri always have Fey'ri children, similar to how tieflings do. A Fey'ri might be more elf than another (and indeed, her percentage of one's demon heritage is very important to a Fey'ri), but I think most elves will look at a demon-touched elf and say "Fey'ri."

Also, Fey'ri usually consider themselves superior to normal elves--that was the whole point of cross-breeding with demons--so some consider it their natural duty/right to breed as many new Fey'ri as possible. Not all try to do so, of course, but hey, we all know sun elves can be snooty, and demonic sun elves are just extra snooty.

Cheers

Erik Scott de Bie

'Tis easier to destroy than to create.

Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars"
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Shemmy
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Posted - 15 Apr 2013 :  16:30:39  Show Profile  Visit Shemmy's Homepage Send Shemmy a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Given that they're just a specific bloodline of elven tieflings, crossing them with any other tiefling would likely result in either a tiefling, fey'ri, or -depending on the mortal side of the tiefling parent's heritage- potentially an elf or half-elf with non-expressed fiendish blood that would pop up in the family tree later down the line.

That would be how I would handle it, informed by the 2e/3e continuity on the topic.

Shemeska the Marauder, King of the Crosstrade; voted #1 best Arcanaloth in Sigil two hundred years running by the people who know what's best for them; chant broker; prospective Sigil council member next election; and official travel agent for Chamada Holiday specials LLC.
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author

USA
4598 Posts

Posted - 16 Apr 2013 :  18:41:53  Show Profile  Visit Erik Scott de Bie's Homepage Send Erik Scott de Bie a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I also want to lodge my agreement that planetouched that look different from one another are more appealing to me than a uniform look.

That said, there are certain things going on in the Realms regarding tieflings (see Brimstone Angels) and genasi (specifically, a huge influx of a true-breeding genasi race from Abeir), and I absolutely refuse to contradict those things. It is canonically established that at least the vast majority of Realms tieflings in the post-Spellplague era look alike because of a shared infernal heritage. There are reasons, as explored in Erin Evans's books (which if you aren't reading, you're really missing out).

AFAIK (and Erin could correct me), generally-speaking, Forgotten Realms tieflings in a certain era (that is, post-Spellplague to 1480s) labor under a particular *paternal curse* from Asmodeus that affects their heredity and appearance, making them present as the stereotypical "devilish" tiefling. (Exactly how far back this curse extends or how far in the Multiverse it applies is a subject of much debate among sages. I suspect that tieflings outside the Realms still vary as much as they ever have.)

Ignore that if you like, but that's the canon. And I see no reason you can't create exceptions (primarily from off-world) without "violating canon" for your own Realms.

The Fey'ri, however, do not share this same curse. They are still descended as they always were from multiple pairings of sun elves and various demons, so they vary widely in appearance.

quote:
Originally posted by Shemmy

Given that they're just a specific bloodline of elven tieflings, crossing them with any other tiefling would likely result in either a tiefling, fey'ri, or -depending on the mortal side of the tiefling parent's heritage- potentially an elf or half-elf with non-expressed fiendish blood that would pop up in the family tree later down the line.
That would be how I would handle it, informed by the 2e/3e continuity on the topic.
Makes sense, with the caveat of how tieflings operate in 4e FR.

We don't know how that would interface with demonic (specifically fey'ri) blood. It's entirely possible fey'ri and tiefling pairings could still produce recognizably fey offspring, though I think mechanically they'd still be tieflings.

Fey'ri that have human blood are extremely rare--not unknown, but rare enough to be considered an exception, rather than a rule.

Cheers

Erik Scott de Bie

'Tis easier to destroy than to create.

Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars"
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Ayrik
Great Reader

Canada
7613 Posts

Posted - 16 Apr 2013 :  19:42:19  Show Profile Send Ayrik a Private Message  Reply with Quote
So the short answer is that each DM/author can choose logic to support whichever long answer seems most appealing ... until "canon" firmly asserts a position through example?

[/Ayrik]
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Erik Scott de Bie
Forgotten Realms Author

USA
4598 Posts

Posted - 16 Apr 2013 :  21:19:55  Show Profile  Visit Erik Scott de Bie's Homepage Send Erik Scott de Bie a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik

So the short answer is that each DM/author can choose logic to support whichever long answer seems most appealing ... until "canon" firmly asserts a position through example?
As a DM, one can do whatever one wants--ignore the canonical answer, stick to canon, go a totally different direction. The DM is the overgod in a Realms game.

As an author, one has to stick to established, canonical answers to things. Because once it's in print, it's canon, and if the products contradict each other too much or too often, that damages the IP. I cannot, for instance, put a bushy-tailed, bunny-eared tiefling in my next Realms novel, because that contradicts the "all infernal tieflings all the time" rule. Heck, my editor on Downshadow tried to argue what one of my characters should look like, until I pointed out that she was not, in fact, a tiefling, but rather a Fey'ri. The onus on a writer is heavy.

The canon about Tieflings and Fey'ri isn't fully available, but there are certain particulars that are known and established, such as what tieflings look like in the Realms these days, and what Fey'ri look like. But as I said, the canon isn't complete: we haven't yet seen the child of a tiefling/fey'ri pairing (if that would even be a fertile match), for instance, so we really don't know for sure what such a child would look like. It's all speculation until we see an actual example.

So the short answer is: "There's the canon, which you can use if you want. As a DM, do what you like."

Cheers

Erik Scott de Bie

'Tis easier to destroy than to create.

Author of a number of Realms novels (GHOSTWALKER, DEPTHS OF MADNESS, and the SHADOWBANE series), contributor to the NEVERWINTER CAMPAIGN GUIDE and SHADOWFELL: GLOOMWROUGHT AND BEYOND, Twitch DM of the Dungeon Scrawlers, currently playing "The Westgate Irregulars"
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
11168 Posts

Posted - 17 Apr 2013 :  01:28:10  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
What would you get if you had a tiefling mate with a tanarukk, and the offspring of such a mating mated with the offspring of a fey'ri that had mated with an alu-fiend? Now, what if said offspring mated with the offspring of a half-fiend that mated with a cambion? Now, what are the odds that some complex combination of the above actually occurred in Narfell? Just how many alu-fiends do you think were born in Narfell, given that they were probably nasty little buggers and bound many a succubus for their perverse pleasure?

P.S. yes, I know that a bunch of the above are the same damn thing.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
11168 Posts

Posted - 17 Apr 2013 :  01:29:43  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

What would you get if you had a tiefling mate with a tanarukk, and the offspring of such a mating mated with the offspring of a fey'ri that had mated with an alu-fiend? Now, what if said offspring mated with the offspring of a half-fiend that mated with a cambion? Now, what are the odds that some complex combination of the above actually occurred in Narfell? Just how many alu-fiends do you think were born in Narfell, given that they were probably nasty little buggers and bound many a succubus for their perverse pleasure?

P.S. yes, I know that a bunch of the above are the same damn thing.




OOOO, and what if the offspring of this combination were sold into slavery at the City of Brass to a kinky Efreeti for his harem?

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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