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Ifthir
Learned Scribe
USA
111 Posts |
 Posted - 07 Feb 2009 : 02:09:33
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Next up, subraces. I have here my current list, and I am hoping to know if any are wrong only! Thanks in advance to any help any can provide.
Dragon
--Amethyst
--Black
--Blue
--Bronze
--Copper
--Deep
(?)Drow-Dragon
--Emerald
--Fang
--Gold
--Green
--Mist
--Red
--Sapphire
--Shadow
--Silver
--Song
--Steel
--Topaz
--White
Dwarf
--Arctic
(?) Derro
--Duergar
--Gold
--Shield
(?) Urdunnir
Elf
(?)Aquatic
(?)Avariel
--Moon (Silver)
--Sun (Gold)
--Drow
--Star
--Wild
--Wood
Giant
--Frost
--Hill
(?)Maur
--Stone
--Storm
Goblinoid
--Goblin
--Hobgoblin
(?)Kobold
Gnome
--Deep
--Rock
Halfling
--Ghostwise
--Lightfoot
--Strongheart
Naga
(?)Spirit Naga
Orc
--Orog
Planetouched
--Aasimar
--Air Genasi
--Earth Genasi
--Fey'ri
--Fire Genasi
(?)Githyanki
(?)Githzerai
--Tanarukk
--Tiefling
--Water Genasi
Yuan-ti
--Abomination
--Halfblood
--Pureblood
--Tainted One
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sfdragon
Great Reader
2285 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2009 : 04:35:46
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ORC:
Orgrillion
Grey ORc
Mountain Orc
Orog
Dragon:
brown
just what assistance are you asking for? |
why is being a wizard like being a drow? both are likely to find a dagger in the back from a rival or one looking to further his own goals, fame and power
My FR fan fiction
Magister's GAmbit
http://steelfiredragon.deviantart.com/gallery/33539234 |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3286 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2009 : 08:39:00
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-Bugbears should go with Goblinoids. 
BRIMSTONE |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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ranger_of_the_unicorn_run
Learned Scribe
USA
292 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2009 : 13:35:32
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| Yuan Ti: Brood Guard |
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Kilvan
Senior Scribe
Canada
894 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2009 : 13:48:13
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Aquatic elves and avariel are correct, no so sure about the kobold in goblinoid. Also, githyanki and Githzerai are humanoid (extraplanar) but not planetouched.
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2009 : 14:33:41
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Planetouched (githyanki and githzerai aren't)
Azerblood
Celadrin
Worghest
Spiritfolk
D'hin'ni
Gloaming
Paraelemental Genasi, Quasielemental Genasi
Hagspawn
Maeluth
Krinth?
Lizard King?
maybe not in FR:
Mechanatrix, Zenythri, Axani
Chaond, Cansin, Neraph
Tuladhara
Wispling
Shyft
Spiker
Shadowswyft
Glimmerfolk |
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Ashe Ravenheart
Great Reader
USA
3240 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2009 : 15:53:33
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| Kobolds are not goblinoids, but a distinct race themselves. They are reptilian and would most closely be related to Lizardfolk (but are not a subrace to them either). |
I actually DO know everything. I just have a very poor index of my knowledge.
Ashe's Character Sheet
Alphabetized Index of Realms NPCs |
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Jorkens
Great Reader
Norway
2950 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2009 : 17:37:32
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quote:
Originally posted by Ashe Ravenheart
Kobolds are not goblinoids, but a distinct race themselves. They are reptilian and would most closely be related to Lizardfolk (but are not a subrace to them either).
Unless we are going by old edition lore
Ifthir, are you asking for? What's missing from your list or just if the ones you mention are right. And what edition are we talking about here? |
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Wrigs13
Learned Scribe
United Kingdom
201 Posts |
Posted - 07 Feb 2009 : 23:38:10
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| You are missing quite a few giant types, such as cloud, fire and ettins, etc |
Do not try to understand the 4th edition. Thats impossible. Instead...only try to realise the truth. There is no 4th edition. |
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Ifthir
Learned Scribe
USA
111 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2009 : 06:39:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Jorkens
Ifthir, are you asking for? What's missing from your list or just if the ones you mention are right. And what edition are we talking about here?
3 or 3.5E, and I am just trying to figure out what on my list is wrong! |
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Marc
Senior Scribe
657 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2009 : 10:20:59
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I have a list of scaleys, was just using it
Naga: Banelar, Spirit, Dark, Guardian, Ha, Water, Iridescent, Bone, Bright, Shinomen
Yuan-ti: Extaminaar, Pureblood, Halfblood, Mageslayer, Abomination, Anathema, Guardian, Broodguard, Ssvaklor
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ranger_of_the_unicorn_run
Learned Scribe
USA
292 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2009 : 15:07:51
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Well, of the creatures that have question marks next to them:
Drow-Dragon- never heard of it
Derro- Dwarf
Urdunnir- I think it's a dwarf, but I don't have the source in front of me
Aquatic- Elf
Avariel- Elf
Maur- never heard of it
Kobold- Humanoid (reptilian)
Spirit Naga- Naga (Abberation type)
Githyanki- Humanoid (Extraplanar)
Githzerai- Humanoid (Extraplanar)
At a glance, I don't see any other errors. |
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Kilvan
Senior Scribe
Canada
894 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2009 : 15:47:45
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quote:
Originally posted by ranger_of_the_unicorn_run
Well, of the creatures that have question marks next to them:
Drow-Dragon- never heard of it
Derro- Dwarf
Urdunnir- I think it's a dwarf, but I don't have the source in front of me
Aquatic- Elf
Avariel- Elf
Maur- never heard of it
Kobold- Humanoid (reptilian)
Spirit Naga- Naga (Abberation type)
Githyanki- Humanoid (Extraplanar)
Githzerai- Humanoid (Extraplanar)
At a glance, I don't see any other errors.
I agree, and I'm most curious about that "drow-dragon", where does that come from? Never heard of the "maur" either, and I personally have no clue about what an "Urdunnir" is. |
Edited by - Kilvan on 08 Feb 2009 15:48:38 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2009 : 16:18:54
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| A drow-dragon is half-drow, half-deep dragon. This is not to be confused with Nurvureem, "The Dark Lady", who is sometimes called the Drow Dragon -- she's a unique song dragon, a drow that can turn into a shadow dragon. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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ranger_of_the_unicorn_run
Learned Scribe
USA
292 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2009 : 16:21:45
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| Then would its type be Dragon (augmented humanoid)? |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2009 : 19:11:02
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Is the list FR-specific?
I can probably add a dozen or so to both the Dragons (You missed all Landwyrms {Linnorm} and Oriental varieties {Lung}, amongst others) and Giants (Cloud, Sea, Reef, Desert, Sand, Mist, Eldritch, etc...). Maur are Subterranean Giants - Stone Giants that have gone 'feral'.
Kobolds are Dragonkin now. They use to be a rat-like - or even 'wolfish' - breed of Goblin, but that has changed, like so much else, over the years. 'Goblin' itself would need a sub-heading, being that we have the Orange ones (Dekanter), the larger and more-sophisticated ancient Cormyrian variety (from the city of Grodd), and the ugly (mishapen?) versions in the east - Bakemono - with the stunted wings (a failed cross-breed?). Also red ones (Cerillian) if you aren't sticking with just FR stuff (in which case, I can grow your list exponentially). The Goblin-rats of Kara-Tur appear to be some sort of Goblin Lycanthropes (wererats?) that have evolved over the centuries into a race of their own, much like Eberron's Shifters.
Orcs also have the Ogrillons (which may also go under Ogres), and the Red and Black varieties (from Thay). There were also 'Jungle Orcs' in Maztica, but I don't think they'd be a seperate sub-race; Jungle Goblins exist as well - the Batiri of Chult. Orcs themselves used to be Goblinoids. 
Ogres have changed as well, and depending on the setting, have been everything from their own race (Krynn) to Goblinoids (Mystarra) to Giants (FR).
With the Elves, you didn't mention the Lythari (Wolf-shapeshifters), nor the theoretical Snow Elves (which MUST exist in FR, because etheir gods are canon... and yet we've never had lore on them). Also the Group of Nomadic Elves that I have taken the liberty of dubbing 'Brown' Elves - the ones in Zakhara, and also those tribes dwelling in Anchorome. Dragonlance seperated their Sea Elves into two races, I suppose to represent Fresh water and salt Water (which is smart). Once again, I'm not sure how comprehensive you want your list - I can start naming Elves from a dozen official D&D settings (like the Shadow Elves), and even many more from 3rd party.
There's also at least 6 canon sub-groups of Halflings for FR, and at least three Gnomish ones. As for Dwarves, you missed the Jungle Ones - two varieaties - wild (Nakit!) Chultan ones, and slighlty more sophisticated Maztican ones (who migrated there from Faerûn). Also the Korobokuru from Kara-Tur...
It really all depends on where your drawing the line for your list.
And don't even get me started on Fey races... |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 08 Feb 2009 19:14:06 |
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Ifthir
Learned Scribe
USA
111 Posts |
Posted - 08 Feb 2009 : 19:15:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Is the list FR-specific?
It really all depends on where your drawing the line for your list.
I am looking for only canon sources which can either say "this entry in your list is wrong" or "this entry in your list is right".
Long story short, all these subraces have an entry somewhere in FR 3-3.5E canon and I am trying to make sure when I label them, I get it right  |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2009 : 00:25:54
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quote:
Originally posted by Ifthir
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Is the list FR-specific?
It really all depends on where your drawing the line for your list.
I am looking for only canon sources which can either say "this entry in your list is wrong" or "this entry in your list is right".
Long story short, all these subraces have an entry somewhere in FR 3-3.5E canon and I am trying to make sure when I label them, I get it right
I'd start by looking at the Monster Index. I think going from that would better accomplish your goals. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
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Faraer
Great Reader
3308 Posts |
Posted - 09 Feb 2009 : 01:00:59
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| 'Goblinoid' is a Games Workshop coinage -- the Realms term is 'goblinkin'. Humanoids related to goblins include orcs, hobgoblins, goblins, and kobolds according to the "Adventures of Volo" in Dragon #275 or #277. Depends on whether you credit the 3E reconceptualization of kobolds. |
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Ifthir
Learned Scribe
USA
111 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2009 : 03:50:46
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Current List
Anyone have any more corrections?
*Subraces*
(?)Aberration
--Spirit Naga
Dragon
--Amethyst
--Black
--Blue
--Bronze
--Copper
--Deep
(?)Drow-Dragon
--Emerald
--Fang
--Gold
--Green
--Mist
--Red
--Sapphire
--Shadow
--Silver
--Song
--Steel
--Topaz
--White
Dwarf
--Arctic
(?) Derro
--Duergar
--Gold
--Shield
(?) Urdunnir
Elf
--Aquatic
--Avariel
--Moon (Silver)
--Sun (Gold)
--Drow
--Star
--Wild
--Wood
Extraplanar
- Githyanki
- Githzerai
Giant
--Frost
--Hill
--Maur
--Stone
--Storm
Goblinkin
--Goblin
--Hobgoblin
(?)Kobold
Gnome
--Deep
--Rock
Halfling
--Ghostwise
--Lightfoot
--Strongheart
Orc
--Orog
Planetouched
--Aasimar
--Air Genasi
--Earth Genasi
--Fey'ri
--Fire Genasi
--Tanarukk
--Tiefling
--Water Genasi
Yuan-ti
--Abomination
--Extaminaar
--Halfblood
--Pureblood
--Tainted One
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ranger_of_the_unicorn_run
Learned Scribe
USA
292 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2009 : 06:18:58
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| Derro are dwarves. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2009 : 17:09:30
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So are Urdunnir - they are sort of like (Earth) Elemental-blooded Dwarves.
Or a cross (kinda) between Galed Duhr and Dwarves. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 10 Feb 2009 17:09:53 |
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Kilvan
Senior Scribe
Canada
894 Posts |
Posted - 10 Feb 2009 : 18:04:09
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| And kobolds are reptilians |
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Matt James
Forgotten Realms Game Designer
USA
918 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2009 : 02:56:28
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Even though I am anti-Wikipedia, this has some good info on the origins of Kobolds.
*Edit: Gah, better to copy and paste. The whole link will not parse because of the parenthesis.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kobold_(Dungeons_&_Dragons)
Basically, the Race has evolved over the various editions of D&D and are less Reptilian and more Draconic with each iteration. |
Edited by - Matt James on 11 Feb 2009 03:01:40 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2009 : 15:33:11
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The best IG explanation for the Kobolds is that they were Goblinoids originally (which in turn were a branch of Unseelie Fey, related to Brownies, at some point in the primordial past), that were experimented on by Dragons using infusions of their own blood. The Dragons managed to create a 'stable version' (Bakemono being an 'unstable' version) of minions using the Goblins as a base creature, and this creature would have looked like a small, feral Goblin at first, but through the years, the Dragon Blood in their heritage carried dominant genes, which have slowly become transcendent.
The 'reptile period' was an in-between stage during which time the Dragon genes were ascerting themselves in the Kobold DNA, and different tribes still exist at different stages, so one can find primitive groups that still look more Goblin-like, while at the same time finding advanced groups with clearly Draconic features.
At least, thats the best explanation I can come-up with, and since the Dragons are an 'Ancient Race', and it appears every Ancient Race experimented and created servitor races, it makes sense the Dragons did likewise with the Kobolds, but the Kobolds are only now fully coming into their own.
I hate when things get retconned, so I always try to find an explanation, even if some of them are rather flimsy.
Anyway, for anyone else interested in Kobolds, I had a link to an artist's Myspace Page with a cover for a D20 book he did (which I don't think ever got published) all about Kobolds. The picture featured several cool-looking Kobold character-types, but he has since taken the large pic off his MySpace Page (to put up new ones). You can still see a smaller version HERE, in his portfolio, but you'll have to scroll down a bit - its in the first column, 7th row down.
The larger pic was better, but at least you won't have to go to Myspace to see it, which is probably the worst site in the universe for viruses and Malware I have ever encountered.
Oh... and my apologies for slipping slightly off-topic with too much 'Koboldery'.
Also, I just realized that in 4e, Kobold's would be considered 'little cousins' of Dragonborn, who have obviously robbed a lot of their thunder now. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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ErskineF
Learned Scribe
USA
330 Posts |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2009 : 16:02:54
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I think the Dragonborn were experiments of the Dragons, although I may be getting confused, because 4e Dragonborn are not the same as 3e Dragonborn were.
I read the origins of the 4e Dragonborn, but I can't seem to recall the details, which is weird, because I usually have a pretty good memory, and that wasn't that long ago.
IIRC, the new 'Kewl' version were closer in origins to the Draconians, but once again, I may be mixing things up here.
As for the Kobolds, I have races of the Dragon, but just never bothered to read the section on Kobolds, so I'm not certain about their canon origins either.
Although thats core, so I'm not even sure if it would even be considered 'FR canon' - it depends if the lore is setting-specific, or multi-spheric (as the stuff on Bahamut should be).
I suppose I should go back and read that section now.. but I just never found the little buggers all that interesting. 
Edit: And before I get admonishhed, I really should post something closer to the topic.
We also need to know if this is Toril-specific FR, or Realmspace in general - there is a difference. We have those beady-eyed Halflings from Coliar(?), and also a race of 'Space Dragons' - IMMENSE versions of terrestrial ones, and Elminster is friends with an ancient Red one (who helps gaurd his 'space station').
I think there is also a race of very advanced Lizaedmen as well, but its been a LONG time since I went through that source. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 12 Feb 2009 01:09:53 |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 11 Feb 2009 : 22:55:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
...and also a race of 'Space Dragons' - IMMENSE versions of terrestrial ones, and Elminster is friends with an ancient Red one (who helps gaurd his 'space station').
Ah, I've got it! That's where the giant alien dragon overlords of Krynn's Five Age came from.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
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Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
Edited by - The Sage on 11 Feb 2009 22:56:44 |
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Sian
Senior Scribe
Denmark
596 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2009 : 06:23:56
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| Space dragons ... basard of the space hamster and dragons? |
what happened to the queen? she's much more hysterical than usual
She's a women, it happens once a month |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 12 Feb 2009 : 08:12:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Sian
Space dragons ... basard of the space hamster and dragons?
Even dragons can't get enough of that Giant Space Hamster lovin'.
quote:
Originally posted by Gray Richardson
Some people call him the Space Hamster.
Some call him the Hamster of Love.
Some people call him Maurice,
'Cause he squeaks of the pompatus of love.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Another request for assistance.
