| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Seethyr |
Posted - 05 Sep 2020 : 00:15:29
I’ll be careful not to put in any spoilers for Salvatore’s recent trilogy but he introduced a concept I have literally never heard of.
Birth magic? It seems to allow a loophole to Mystra’s ban on certain levels of magic. I mean one particular use seemed to me to be on par with an 11th level spell at least.
Do we know anything more of this? |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| cpthero2 |
Posted - 22 Sep 2020 : 06:36:08
Great Reader CorellonsDevout,
Wow, I must admit, I don't recall it from Homeland either, and I definitely have not heard of it elsewhere. Just a bit of searching didn't dig up much on it. Definitely seems like it quickly goes down the uber creepy path in the game...
Best regards,
|
| CorellonsDevout |
Posted - 22 Sep 2020 : 05:15:21
Pain is likely a component used for certain groups (such as followers of Loviator), but I haven't encountered birthing magic outside the Drizzt novels, and I'd completely forgotten about it from Homeland. Even other novels and sources (that I am aware of) that cover Lolthites don't mention birthing magic. |
| cpthero2 |
Posted - 17 Sep 2020 : 02:51:40
Master Rupert,
Not to call your correctness into doubt, but where are you citing that from? I am quite interested in going and reading that myself! :)
Best regards,
|
| SaMoCon |
Posted - 11 Sep 2020 : 08:39:52
"Bloodwalk" and "Relentless," huh? I sit corrected. Apparently this is a thing that is being invested into by WotC and being expanded upon. Wait, isn't that description of the protagonist in "Bloodwalk" just the prestige class of blood magus from "Complete Arcane?" "Complete Arcane" was published two years prior to "Bloodwalk" with an identical description for becoming a blood mage, but the write-up of the blood magus' powers include no component or mechanics for pain, only the blood of living creatures. Is this what you are referencing, Lord Karsus, or is there something else in that novel? |
| Lord Karsus |
Posted - 11 Sep 2020 : 01:35:32
quote:
Originally posted by SaMoCon
While I do concur that experiencing pain and/or discomfort are immutable components of this process, I would caution that they are integral to the whole process and not something which may be extracted to provide power on their own (i.e., masochistic cutting for spell power ups). Then again, my opinion of birth magic was that it was unique to the secret religious practices of Llolth worshippers that was revealed by will of the goddess and it really should go no further than that by canon sources. Any implication that pain was useful for empowering magic would have long ago been discovered, subverted, and controlled by the deities Loviatar (goddess of agony) & Ilmater (god of suffering) for their own ends.
-We know from Bloodwalk that the utilization of pain and blood is used by other individual magicians and groups (Gargauth). |
| Seethyr |
Posted - 10 Sep 2020 : 01:52:06
quote:
Originally posted by SaMoCon
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
just wondering, is the spellcaster also the one giving birth?.. If so, I'm not seeing many who can concentrate on spellcasting AND give birth to harness this special resource. I would also expect that any magical ability used to reduce the pain would also thereby reduce the ability to harness the resource (i.e. I picture the pain as a critical component).
Since we were going off the only known canon description of birth magic being the Matron Mother the default is the spellcaster being the birther. The description also tied the impetus of increased power to the emotional turmoil & pain experienced but redirected by the sheer will of the Matron Mother. 3.x D&D rules introduced the mechanic of Concentration and made it a key class skill for spellcasters. "You must make a Concentration check whenever you might potentially be distracted (by taking damage, by harsh weather, and so on) while engaged in some action that requires your full attention. Such actions include casting a spell, manifesting a power, concentrating on an active spell or power, directing a spell or power, using a spell-like or psi-like ability, or using a skill that would provoke an attack of opportunity." Most likely birth magic falls under "DC10 + half of continuous damage last dealt for Taking continuous damage during the action," which simulates being on fire, but also could handle the delivering aspect of birth magic.
While I do concur that experiencing pain and/or discomfort are immutable components of this process, I would caution that they are integral to the whole process and not something which may be extracted to provide power on their own (i.e., masochistic cutting for spell power ups). Then again, my opinion of birth magic was that it was unique to the secret religious practices of Llolth worshippers that was revealed by will of the goddess and it really should go no further than that by canon sources. Any implication that pain was useful for empowering magic would have long ago been discovered, subverted, and controlled by the deities Loviatar (goddess of agony) & Ilmater (god of suffering) for their own ends.
I'm fresh off of reading Relentless and am desperate not to spoil it, but let's just say Birth Magic was definitely in the "ritual" category and it required assistance (from other than the mother). |
| SaMoCon |
Posted - 09 Sep 2020 : 22:04:40
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
just wondering, is the spellcaster also the one giving birth?.. If so, I'm not seeing many who can concentrate on spellcasting AND give birth to harness this special resource. I would also expect that any magical ability used to reduce the pain would also thereby reduce the ability to harness the resource (i.e. I picture the pain as a critical component).
Since we were going off the only known canon description of birth magic being the Matron Mother the default is the spellcaster being the birther. The description also tied the impetus of increased power to the emotional turmoil & pain experienced but redirected by the sheer will of the Matron Mother. 3.x D&D rules introduced the mechanic of Concentration and made it a key class skill for spellcasters. "You must make a Concentration check whenever you might potentially be distracted (by taking damage, by harsh weather, and so on) while engaged in some action that requires your full attention. Such actions include casting a spell, manifesting a power, concentrating on an active spell or power, directing a spell or power, using a spell-like or psi-like ability, or using a skill that would provoke an attack of opportunity." Most likely birth magic falls under "DC10 + half of continuous damage last dealt for Taking continuous damage during the action," which simulates being on fire, but also could handle the delivering aspect of birth magic.
While I do concur that experiencing pain and/or discomfort are immutable components of this process, I would caution that they are integral to the whole process and not something which may be extracted to provide power on their own (i.e., masochistic cutting for spell power ups). Then again, my opinion of birth magic was that it was unique to the secret religious practices of Llolth worshippers that was revealed by will of the goddess and it really should go no further than that by canon sources. Any implication that pain was useful for empowering magic would have long ago been discovered, subverted, and controlled by the deities Loviatar (goddess of agony) & Ilmater (god of suffering) for their own ends. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 09 Sep 2020 : 17:57:53
quote:
Originally posted by Demzer
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Dove is more of a ranger. Granted, I picture her as a ranger/wizard.
Well she had a full plate in The Seven Sisters but yeah, I was generally referring to her inclination more for melee combat without class specifics. Happy to move this discussion elsewhere.
Good point. Case of earlier edition rules possibly affecting what we might develop using later editions. Moving it over to the other thread. |
| Demzer |
Posted - 09 Sep 2020 : 17:29:43
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Dove is more of a ranger. Granted, I picture her as a ranger/wizard.
Well she had a full plate in The Seven Sisters but yeah, I was generally referring to her inclination more for melee combat without class specifics. Happy to move this discussion elsewhere. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 09 Sep 2020 : 14:59:05
quote:
Originally posted by Demzer
Speaking of the Seven Sisters, I sometimes wonder if each of them doesn't embody/specialise in some specific form of spellcasting: Qilue being the "divine" one, Laeral the archetypical wizard (research and practice), the Symbul the archetypical sorcerer (channeling "raw" power), Sylune I imagine like the proverbial witch (so alchemy, potions and rituals), Storm the epitome of bardic/musical magic (for humans anyway), Dove the eldritch knight (whose magic is basically used to make her a better fighter) and Alustriel ... well she has always been the one most connected to the "gentle" emotions, Lady of Love, very compassionate, extremely empathic ... also she has a ton of kids ... maybe there is more to them (and their births)?
Dove is more of a ranger. Granted, I picture her as a ranger/wizard. Of course, maybe you were referring to the 3.5e version of eldritch knight now that I think about it.
On this particular idea, I'd love to "redefine" the seven sisters using 3.5e classes and prestige classes. For instance, the Simbul as a wizard/sorcerer with ultimate magus. Perhaps we should start a thread for such if anyone else is actually interested. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 09 Sep 2020 : 14:34:43
just wondering, is the spellcaster also the one giving birth? I'm assuming so in my next statement. If so, I'm not seeing many who can concentrate on spellcasting AND give birth to harness this special resource. I would also expect that any magical ability used to reduce the pain would also thereby reduce the ability to harness the resource (i.e. I picture the pain as a critical component). |
| SaMoCon |
Posted - 09 Sep 2020 : 09:35:10
But, wouldn't such an occurrence become more common for a spellcaster capable of harnessing the power boost for her own benefit? As we all know, there are spellcasters that kill themselves to gain the increased power of lichdom for the price of undeath & the end of their soul - birth casting seems to be less drastic even if it is a temporary & fleeting empowerment. I even think there would be experimentation with magically transplanted, artificially accelerated, and psuedo-pregnancies to accelerate the frequency of the events. However, this is still only if such a boost were possible outside of a specific religious ritual that is favored by the malicious deity Llolth. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 08 Sep 2020 : 10:55:00
Even 9 times, spread out over 20 or 30 years, isn't exactly a common occurrence. |
| SaMoCon |
Posted - 08 Sep 2020 : 07:17:48
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
... *Yes, I know, birth isn't exactly a rare thing, in general -- but it is rare, among individuals, for most humanish races in fantasy settings. Sure, a large city may see births every day -- but for the individual mothers, it's usually not happening more than three times in their lifetime, and each time, it takes literally months to get there and then a hell of a lot of work to actually give birth. Even drow, living for centuries and known to be more fecund than other elven races, still don't have large numbers of children.
Humans are so randy that birth for a mated pair is merely an infrequent event, look at real world history for examples of fecundity before the age of electronic entertainment & wide-spread, dirt-cheap contraception such as the relatively modern 18th & 19th century women averaging 9 babies each and 7 babies each respectively. After the sun goes down the great sweep of the land is plunged into darkness with the primary illumination of every household except for a minuscule fraction of the affluent & empowered is the very dangerous fire of candles or log piles. What do you think happens in a household of a mated pair between the long hours of sunset & sunrise with an average time in the dark of 12 hours? Only young children & the sick/badly injured can regularly sleep that much in a straight go. Someone is gonna be up before it is reasonably time to get up and prod one's partner with the words "so, ya wanna?"
The aggregate of orcs & goblinkind are also prolific, they have access to their own magic traditions, and they would have just the callous disposition necessary to seek out such power boosts regardless of the child's well being, just like it was written in Salvatore's decades-old novel where the baby Drizzt was intended to be sacrificed after being born. And would this be any different for egg-laying sapients whom may more regularly plan this type of magic on their cycle?
If such a boost were possible outside of a specific religious ritual that is favored by the malicious deity Llolth, then it would be wide-spread amongst various peoples from grasping human mages greedy for more power to Luthic's faithful orc women striving for better standing in the patriarchal tribes. Such a thing would make kobold sorcerers even more dangerous or alter the internal hierarchies of scaly-kind.
*sigh* I am not going to complete my thoughts on this because there are just too many branching possibilities for the past & present of the FR to be changed by this if it were anything more than a one-off by a novelist that can only be performed by a wizened Matron in the service of Llolth supported by a coterie of ritualists. |
| Demzer |
Posted - 07 Sep 2020 : 18:41:34
quote:
Originally posted by Seethyr
I hope if they ever do something for epic level play, it is taken into consideration as a method for non epic level characters to enact a one time epic level feat of magic.
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
It's not the first time RAS has used some otherwise undescribed bit of magic: look at Bruenor forging Aegis-Fang.
Exactly, as a one-off thing it seems to be a feat similar to the dwarven magical masterpiece crafting.
I'm trying to think of other canon (or pseudo/semi-canon) references to births and magic but the only thing that comes up is an anecdote from Ed's own campaign (I think it's somewhere in these Halls) I remember vaguely: something about one of the players sacrificing herself to close a portal or kill a powerful devil/demon and being almost instantly "reborn/reincarnated" in an infant being birthed that same night by someone they knew in one of the Dales.
Other than that there is the birth of Qilue (but that was rather directly operated by deities).
Speaking of the Seven Sisters, I sometimes wonder if each of them doesn't embody/specialise in some specific form of spellcasting: Qilue being the "divine" one, Laeral the archetypical wizard (research and practice), the Symbul the archetypical sorcerer (channeling "raw" power), Sylune I imagine like the proverbial witch (so alchemy, potions and rituals), Storm the epitome of bardic/musical magic (for humans anyway), Dove the eldritch knight (whose magic is basically used to make her a better fighter) and Alustriel ... well she has always been the one most connected to the "gentle" emotions, Lady of Love, very compassionate, extremely empathic ... also she has a ton of kids ... maybe there is more to them (and their births)? |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 07 Sep 2020 : 16:58:35
quote:
Originally posted by TheIriaeban
It would seem that we have drifted quite a bit away from the supposed topic. I can see that is my fault and I would like to apologize to everyone and especially to Seethyr. To get us back on track, I did some searches of the stuff I have and I didn't find anything mentioning birth magic. It would seem to be something that RAS came up with or he got it from confidential material from Ed.
It's not the first time RAS has used some otherwise undescribed bit of magic: look at Bruenor forging Aegis-Fang.
I think that was prolly something from Ed, too, *especially* since it was written in an era when dwarves couldn't use arcane magic and yet the lore described a lot of magical arms and armor as coming from dwarven forges.
I personally like the idea of rituals like that: a craftsman making a unique magical weapon with a ritual that is a gift from their gods, or harnessing the energies of a rare event* to enact some magical ritual.
*Yes, I know, birth isn't exactly a rare thing, in general -- but it is rare, among individuals, for most humanish races in fantasy settings. Sure, a large city may see births every day -- but for the individual mothers, it's usually not happening more than three times in their lifetime, and each time, it takes literally months to get there and then a hell of a lot of work to actually give birth. Even drow, living for centuries and known to be more fecund than other elven races, still don't have large numbers of children. |
| Seethyr |
Posted - 07 Sep 2020 : 16:23:22
quote:
Originally posted by TheIriaeban
It would seem that we have drifted quite a bit away from the supposed topic. I can see that is my fault and I would like to apologize to everyone and especially to Seethyr. To get us back on track, I did some searches of the stuff I have and I didn't find anything mentioning birth magic. It would seem to be something that RAS came up with or he got it from confidential material from Ed.
No worries! This has been an interesting read and debate. I’m just bummed there are no other instances.
I hope if they ever do something for epic level play, it is taken into consideration as a method for non epic level characters to enact a one time epic level feat of magic.
Of course the bards would suddenly become OP |
| TheIriaeban |
Posted - 07 Sep 2020 : 15:44:47
It would seem that we have drifted quite a bit away from the supposed topic. I can see that is my fault and I would like to apologize to everyone and especially to Seethyr. To get us back on track, I did some searches of the stuff I have and I didn't find anything mentioning birth magic. It would seem to be something that RAS came up with or he got it from confidential material from Ed. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 07 Sep 2020 : 13:43:01
Ed himself has said, repeatedly, in non-FR material, that Mystra is the most powerful. That's not unreliable narrator, that's the creator of the setting saying in his own voice.
And that is why Mystra has limitations on her power, in the form of Chosen and Weave anchors and such. She has to hand off some of her power to be at a comparable power level to other deities.
As for her repeated deaths, that's bad writing -- the same bad writing that gives Cyric the plot armor you referenced. The problem is that WotC and TSR both backed themselves into a corner by insisting the spotlight stay on the Chosen. The easiest fix for them -- honestly, the only thing they knew how to do -- was go Hollywood yet again and blow everything up.
If it had been me, I would have had Elminster appear to die in a blaze of glory, somewhere, never to be seen again, followed by a period in which Mystra and her servants kept a low profile, apparently mourning him... And then some evil wizard's plans would go awry, and he'd hear a familiar chuckle and catch a whiff of pipesmoke... Put Elminster back on the low profile Ed originally intended.
The biggest issue is that WotC has become increasingly risk-averse, forgetting that every single successful character of the Realms was once new. Rather than take a chance on creating new characters, they keep going back to the same well over and over and over again, over-saturating the fiction by continuously focusing on Chosen, or Shades, or drow, or some combination thereof. The issue is not and never has been any of those characters -- it's been the company refusing to let us see anyone else. |
| Demzer |
Posted - 07 Sep 2020 : 12:17:45
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Demzer
The idea that Mystra, the only deity we have on record for dying multiple times (with very bad contingencies in place) is the most powerful of the pantheon is like claiming that Krillin/Kuririn is the strongest character in Dragonball. Laughable joke.
So you're saying Ed is wrong about his setting? Because it's Ed himself that has said that.
I'm saying that applying the "unreliable narrator" lense to everything in the setting except Mystra is wrong. You can translate it into the fact that Ed is obviously not wrong (kind of by definition he can't be), it's just that his main/only source of information is unreliable because it has its own interests in representing one specific side in stories regarding Mystra.
The very questionable Netheril: Empire of Magic is supposed to be Larloch telling a story to Tam and that lich's version making it's way to us and everyone agrees it's up for debate if the information is completely accurate because of the agendas of the individuals involved. But when Elminster chants the joys of Mystra and all the things she has done for the setting and how everything that was f****d up was not her fault (Helmlands anyone? If it's not a huge PR stunt that, I don't know what is) we all accept it as gospel? |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 07 Sep 2020 : 11:19:12
quote:
Originally posted by Demzer
The idea that Mystra, the only deity we have on record for dying multiple times (with very bad contingencies in place) is the most powerful of the pantheon is like claiming that Krillin/Kuririn is the strongest character in Dragonball. Laughable joke.
So you're saying Ed is wrong about his setting? Because it's Ed himself that has said that. |
| Demzer |
Posted - 07 Sep 2020 : 10:21:02
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison
Why didn't any deity grab hold of the sceptre of the sorcerer kings and use it against another. Khelben gave it to fzoul so why didn't iyachtu xvim use it to banish his most hated foe.
Yes, because the Sceptre of the Sorcerer Kings has totally god-killing powers, right? And are you really sure Xvim didn't get what he wanted by letting Fzoul do his thing? Ask Wooly.
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison
Why didn't one or more gods use the imaskari planar barrier to stop their enemies.
Yes, because the Imaskari Planar Barrier has always been handled by the gods, right? It's not like it's probably the most anti-deific thing ever made into the setting that gods kept away from it until Ao the Overgod decided to intervene.
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison
Why didn't auril use the gatekeepers crystal on a stronghold of her enemies. Why dont all the evil gods just kill their enemies
Why would any god do that directly/in person/avatar? To start a godwar? Why didn't the US and USSR fire away with the nukes last century so we could avoid all these discussions? Does anyone know the concept of deterrent or understand the implications of having power but not using it to it's fullest extent? Like why don't school teacher just don't suspend all the kids at the first sneeze? They have got the power to do that ...
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison
Who read the spellplague reason; where the super team of shar and cyric did a super ultra mega backstab on mystra, and thought "wow that was awesome". Now hands up all those that read it with a twitch in their left eye and a wtf expression on their face.
Gods taking direct action on the material plane breaks everything ...
Not agreeing with what they did but that was not on the Prime so, even by your standards, that should've been fine.
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison
... But none of them are gods ...
Eh, yeah, so god-like beings with god-like powers and god-like schemes ... but with a different name. Gotcha. Totally different.
I agree that most of the time gods are represented in novels they break the setting but even then most of the time it's the two worst and serial offenders, Cyric and Mystra. Cyric has got plot armor and last time they tried to get rid of Mystra they blew up the setting and didn't get rid of her so I wouldn't want to bring any more editorial attention to this point.
Anyway, more on topic, I like the idea of specific individuals able to harness their feelings and emotions to amplify and boost their magic (a la "metamagic feat", as already pointed out by Lord Karsus). It gives a little bit more depth to the whole sorcerer (the class) thing of "the magic is in your blood/being" as opposed to the "you studied countless tomes and practiced hours of finger movements" the wizards do. But I'll definitely count it as still Weave-magic, just a boost to it and depending on circumstances (a ritual, the strength of the individuals involved, etc...) it can be a mighty boost.
Off topic again, I really like how everyone here thinks everyone lies in FR ("And gods most of all") except Elminster and the rest of the Mystrans through whom the Realms are spoonfed to us. Like it's not just all propaganda.
The idea that Mystra, the only deity we have on record for dying multiple times (with very bad contingencies in place) is the most powerful of the pantheon is like claiming that Krillin/Kuririn is the strongest character in Dragonball. Laughable joke. |
| The Arcanamach |
Posted - 06 Sep 2020 : 13:35:40
LoB: I believe it's canon that she does do that...it's just such an overwhelming task that nothing short of a greater deity who truly understands the workings of the Weave can keep it under control...and even she needs the help of her Chosen to accomplish the task. At least, that's how I interpret it. I also think that AO has something to do with keeping it under a modicum of control in her absence and seeing to it that the rebooted goddess has the capability of doing the job (this isn't canon, just my opinion for how a 'new' deity is able to assume the mantle...and none of the other gods are aware that AO does this because things go horribly awry when the Weave collapses and it takes time to return to normal). Let's not forget that magic has actually gotten weaker each time this has happened. |
| LordofBones |
Posted - 06 Sep 2020 : 09:58:03
To be honest, given that Mystra dies every edition or so, I'd expect powerful wizards to start abandoning Realmspace en-masse and heading for Oerth or Cerilia. It really doesn't help that Mystra's murderer is the god of plot armor.
Really, I'd expect Mystra to have a contingency plan set aside; that on the event of her death, her power would split between her servitor gods who'd serve in her place. It would add plot progression, with the Chosen having to grapple with two additional patrons who have no reason to like them much - Big V was Thayvian, and Savras remembers being stuck in a stick for the better part of several millennia.
|
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 06 Sep 2020 : 08:27:33
Oh and birth magic doesnt seem all that different to how magic is depicted in some novels where shal uses her anger or other emotion to heighten her spell potency.
|
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 06 Sep 2020 : 08:05:21
Ahh yes, why doesnt this deity just do that, or you cant do x because y deity wouldn't allow.
My answer is of course because deity's cant take direct action on the material plane but that's just for me.
Why didn't any deity grab hold of the sceptre of the sorcerer kings and use it against another. Khelben gave it to fzoul so why didn't iyachtu xvim use it to banish his most hated foe.
Why didn't one or more gods use the imaskari planar barrier to stop their enemies.
Why didn't auril use the gatekeepers crystal on a stronghold of her enemies. Why dont all the evil gods just kill their enemies.
Then of course wotc did just that. Who read the spellplague reason; where the super team of shar and cyric did a super ultra mega backstab on mystra, and thought "wow that was awesome". Now hands up all those that read it with a twitch in their left eye and a wtf expression on their face.
Gods taking direct action on the material plane breaks everything and always ends up with garbage like the ToT which many disliked, and the spellplague which near everyone hated.
So I don't allow direct actions by gods because there are too many problems caused by it, and because its bad storytelling. |
| Seethyr |
Posted - 06 Sep 2020 : 07:40:30
Are there any other instances of birth magic besides Salvatore’s two?
Is the magic limitless? I mean, I don’t want to spoil the book, so I won’t say anything but what was done was pretty darn powerful. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 06 Sep 2020 : 04:23:46
Actually, no, the questions aren't more interesting -- because getting rid of the god of the most powerful in the sphere begs the question of why some other deity hasn't tried to grab it. Deities have literally killed each other for more influence, and if there wasn't a deity running the show on magic, the rest of the gods would be tripping over themselves trying to grab ahold of it.
Changing it from a god to something else breaks things, but I guess that doesn't matter when you hate everything pertaining to gods and proclaim that canon is wrong. |
| Gary Dallison |
Posted - 05 Sep 2020 : 22:05:30
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison
Not removed, just changed.
Karsus is still there and still causes the collapse of the weave
Mystryl is still there and sacrifices herself to save the weave.
The weave is still there and is rebooted. But none of them are gods.
-Agreed. Just like there have been a bunch of deities that have been reclassified as Archfey, Elemental Lords, and other things, Mystryl/Mystra being reclassified as an extremely powerful god-like entity doesn't really cause anything to fall apart. I actually like that explanation better, given the Weave's importance, power and it's/Mystra's unique status as a result.
Well I'm glad someone got something useful out of my heresy.
It can go much further. What is mystryl/mystra, a sentience in the weave (there are weave ghosts already), the most powerful sentience in the weave or an amalgam of sentiences. How did they get there.
Who created the weave (once you decouple it from the god thing it has to have been created. Where any other weaves created (shadow weave?).
Was it always planet wide, did it grow, how does it grow (add more weave anchors)
How do the spells get stored in it (nether scrolls originally). How were the 10th level spells and higher cut off.
Why does the weave need to be worshipped and have a church (it doesnt but they act as guardians and they catalogue all the new spells and store them in the weave for everyone to use.
There are so many more interesting questions and answers once you change it from god did it to something else. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 05 Sep 2020 : 21:29:15
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
quote:
Originally posted by TheIriaeban
This has also made me wonder why none of the other gods of magic didn't assume Mystra's apparently vacant role as the god of magic after she was killed and the Spellplague started.
That's because
1)She wasn't actually dead, and the Weave was still there if stranded
2)I don't think that all portfolios are open to any god. For example, Lolth tried to grab the Weave, and Ed explained why her attempt was the result of total incompetence and destined to fail from the very beginning, to the point that El and other chosen had to sustain her own "new" Weave for her to avoid another cataclysm.
I feel very much #2.... just because a god kills another god doesn't mean that they have the capability to handle the "portfolios" that that god held. In the case of Karsus, while he's a great mage, I think he was thrust into the middle of juggling too many balls at once when he'd never juggled them before (as a visual to simulate what I'm picturing).
I actually think that Mystra and Midnight had something special about themselves that made it easier for them to adapt. Perhaps they were the blood of Mystra in some way (kind of like the seven sisters were born with the aid of Mystra). I'm actually fond of the idea that Midnight was another Alias clone to tell the truth, and none of her prior history was true (it was all programmed memories, and even she didn't know it). I rather like the idea that several of the bodies that gods inhabited during the ToT were constructed bodies and that some had some kind of an "in" that they'd need to have such waiting for them (as in perhaps a certain god of divinations wasn't caught with his pants down, and he communicated some needs even while he was in Azuth's staff). I'm also of the mindset that the weird beholder-like demon with mouths in place of eyes named Phalse that was involved with the Alias clones was Leira (and she gave the midnight clone the truename Ariel). |
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