| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| Dalor Darden |
Posted - 06 Nov 2012 : 20:18:39
Ok, since today is "Election Day" in the United States, I thought I would talk about the government types of the Forgotten Realms.
Well, not talk about so much as ask:
What are the government types of the various nations of the Forgotten Realms?
Cormyr is not a Feudal Monarchy (as an example), instead it is more an Absolute Monarchy (or in fact, a Tyranny) in my view. I suppose it could be viewed as a Puppet Monarchy when Vangie is around...but what indeed are the government types of the various Nations, City-States and etc. of The Realms?
EDIT: details would be good too! Like Sembia is a Plutocracy in my eyes...but I don't see how that works exactly. So I'm hoping for details.
NATIONAL GOVERNMENTS
Cormyr: Centralized Administrative Monarchy (added 11/11/12)
Impiltur: Decentralized Theocratic Monarchy (added 11/9/12)
Turmish: Democratic Republic (added 11/7/12) |
| 30 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| vorpalanvil |
Posted - 21 Nov 2012 : 09:42:07
To Lord Bane: You clearly got me with your 1st statement; touche! You kinda missed the context with your latter statment. I counter with the Hackmaster 4thed spell shift blame tm to Dalor Darden. Haha! |
| The Sage |
Posted - 09 Nov 2012 : 01:56:23
I'll leave that one for either Ed [via the Lady Hooded One] or Brian Cortijo himself. |
| Dalor Darden |
Posted - 09 Nov 2012 : 01:31:39
So with Cormyr...an Absolute Monarchy then? |
| The Sage |
Posted - 09 Nov 2012 : 00:59:06
If you're composing a listing of governmental types in the Relams, Dalor, then I think you can use what I quoted from Brian Cortijo below as confirmation for Cormyr:-
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
Cormyr is not a Feudal Monarchy (as an example), instead it is more an Absolute Monarchy (or in fact, a Tyranny) in my view. I suppose it could be viewed as a Puppet Monarchy when Vangie is around...but what indeed are the government types of the various Nations, City-States and etc. of The Realms?
Various tidbits from Brian Cortijo on Cormyr's government type:-
quote:
Cormyr isn't feudal, so nobles of the realm don't gain absolute right to territory, to then parcel out.
quote:
Cormyr is a centralized monarchy. There's nothing feudal about it.
Tenant farmers on a particular noble's land are no more beholden to that noble than they would be a rich commoner who owned the land: if they choose to stop renting, they can up and leave.
quote:
It's because they hold no real power, and the spreading thin of the family line leads to decadence and a weakening of the family name (see also: Cormaeril). Also, the farther one gets from the main branch, the lesser the 'automatic' title one possesses.
|
| Dennis |
Posted - 08 Nov 2012 : 23:15:50
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
There is usually a government behind a government. You mentioned Cormyr, as an example. It's a monarchy, yet most often than not, the Royal Wizard gets the final say. Luskan and Sembia are Plutocratic, yet we know that 'tis really the Brotherhood Arcane and Shade that control them, respectively. So in a way, they are magocracies. Thay, Halruaa, Rashemen, High Imaskar, Nimbral, Deep Imaskar, Aglarond, and the old empires of Netheril and Imaskar are all magocracies.
I'd disagree with Aglarond and Rashemen being basic magocracies. Aglarond is ruled by a mage, but there is no privilege for mages (well, not much), etc.. Rashemen is closer to a "normal" magocracy... but its "true" rulers are the wychlaran who are probably equally divided between mages and priests. Maybe a better term would be "theocratic magocracy"?
Most of the positions of importance in Aglarond are held by wizards. That's pretty much an obvious sign of privilege given to their class.
The Witches of Rashemen are more like theurges than pure arcane magic-users and pure priests. So you migh be correct about your assertion that it's "theocratic magocracy." Though I normaly don't give much weight on the sub-type. Magocracy is enough, for me. |
| Dennis |
Posted - 08 Nov 2012 : 23:10:01
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Yeah, I'd call Thay a "Parliamentary magocracy" and Halruaa a "Peer-elected Monarchist magocracy"
The Old Thay, yes. But Szass Tam's Thay is more like Monarchist/Tyrannical Magocracy. |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 08 Nov 2012 : 22:54:47
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
There is usually a government behind a government. You mentioned Cormyr, as an example. It's a monarchy, yet most often than not, the Royal Wizard gets the final say. Luskan and Sembia are Plutocratic, yet we know that 'tis really the Brotherhood Arcane and Shade that control them, respectively. So in a way, they are magocracies. Thay, Halruaa, Rashemen, High Imaskar, Nimbral, Deep Imaskar, Aglarond, and the old empires of Netheril and Imaskar are all magocracies.
I'd disagree with Aglarond and Rashemen being basic magocracies. Aglarond is ruled by a mage, but there is no privilege for mages (well, not much), etc.. Rashemen is closer to a "normal" magocracy... but its "true" rulers are the wychlaran who are probably equally divided between mages and priests. Maybe a better term would be "theocratic magocracy"? |
| sleyvas |
Posted - 08 Nov 2012 : 22:47:34
quote:
Originally posted by Firestorm
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
Ok, since today is "Election Day" in the United States, I thought I would talk about the government types of the Forgotten Realms.
Well, not talk about so much as ask:
What are the government types of the various nations of the Forgotten Realms?
Cormyr is not a Feudal Monarchy (as an example), instead it is more an Absolute Monarchy (or in fact, a Tyranny) in my view. I suppose it could be viewed as a Puppet Monarchy when Vangie is around...but what indeed are the government types of the various Nations, City-States and etc. of The Realms?
EDIT: details would be good too! Like Sembia is a Plutocracy in my eyes...but I don't see how that works exactly. So I'm hoping for details.
I don't think we have an equivalent to a mageocracy in the modern world, but Thay and Haluraa are exactly that. both very different types tho.
Waterdeep does seem to be run like a "skull and bones" type club
Yeah, I'd call Thay a "Parliamentary magocracy" and Halruaa a "Peer-elected Monarchist magocracy" |
| Dennis |
Posted - 08 Nov 2012 : 22:31:39
Nope. 'Tis Oligarchy. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 08 Nov 2012 : 22:09:56
Is CK a Grognardocracy?  |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 08 Nov 2012 : 19:46:42
quote:
vorpalanvil
Though I set my games in the north, I often have wondered about the political make up of the Dalelands. Any insight as to their varying political systems?
They tend to each govern their own affairs. Typically through some sort of "democratically" elected local mayor or lordling. I view the Dales as basically being little municipalities.
[Edit]
Oh yeah, there's plenty of meddling Harpers manipulating these little governments. The Dales have traditionally been one of their stronghold regions (although the North might have more Harpers covering more territory, I dunno). |
| Dennis |
Posted - 08 Nov 2012 : 18:47:33
Machi's Nen-based threads. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 07 Nov 2012 : 22:28:13
Didn't some book list all the different types? I think one of the AEG books has a good section on gov't types as well.
Hmmmmm.... Wooly's got me thinking. Sewing discontent (with a thread of discontent) into the fabric of government. Weaving the tapestry of history, etc.... something there. I'm thinking some sort of artifact... perhaps Loki's needle of discord? |
| Quale |
Posted - 07 Nov 2012 : 21:52:47
Turmish is a democratic republic |
| Kentinal |
Posted - 07 Nov 2012 : 21:16:10
Clearly there are some communities lead by Priests or Priestesses. Following the dogma of their deity. I seem to recall a few communities actually select from there peers a mayor. I however have not seen anything close to an open election where all can vote. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 07 Nov 2012 : 20:17:20
quote:
Originally posted by Lord Bane
The Black Network does offer it for sale, for a cheap price and very endurable, seek out your nearest Zhentarim representative and strike the deal today, you won´t be disappointed!
So you're saying the Zhentarim are a bunch of seamstresses? Well, that would explain a lot... |
| Lord Bane |
Posted - 07 Nov 2012 : 20:08:32
The Black Network does offer it for sale, for a cheap price and very endurable, seek out your nearest Zhentarim representative and strike the deal today, you won´t be disappointed!
|
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 07 Nov 2012 : 19:31:27
How does one sew discontent? Does that require a special kind of thread? |
| Lord Bane |
Posted - 07 Nov 2012 : 18:55:20
Oh if i wanted to sew discontent i would say that the dales rightfully belong under Zhentarim control
As for your cavalry charge, i counter with nuclear overkill  |
| vorpalanvil |
Posted - 07 Nov 2012 : 10:54:30
Yeah I kind of figured that. I was looking for some more cannon type of info. Also, you are evil and are probably just trying to sew discontent. I cast the 1st level spell "Polish cavalry charge" at you. Haha! |
| Lord Bane |
Posted - 07 Nov 2012 : 09:59:41
I would see the Dales as a loose confederation with everyone doing his own business. |
| vorpalanvil |
Posted - 07 Nov 2012 : 08:41:35
Though I set my games in the north, I often have wondered about the political make up of the Dalelands. Any insight as to their varying political systems? |
| Dennis |
Posted - 07 Nov 2012 : 04:38:52
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
I think Banarchy would be an "interesting" form of government. I'd think Cormyr is just a strange half-anachronistic Feudalocracy, paying tribute to Shadowdale's Elminstarchy, at war with Sembia's Idiocracy, Thay's Tamocracy, and Telamont's Shadocracy.
Incidentally, there's a form of government whose name is derived from a deity. Not Bane, though. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 07 Nov 2012 : 02:24:12
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
Cormyr is not a Feudal Monarchy (as an example), instead it is more an Absolute Monarchy (or in fact, a Tyranny) in my view. I suppose it could be viewed as a Puppet Monarchy when Vangie is around...but what indeed are the government types of the various Nations, City-States and etc. of The Realms?
Various tidbits from Brian Cortijo on Cormyr's government type:-
quote:
Cormyr isn't feudal, so nobles of the realm don't gain absolute right to territory, to then parcel out.
quote:
Cormyr is a centralized monarchy. There's nothing feudal about it.
Tenant farmers on a particular noble's land are no more beholden to that noble than they would be a rich commoner who owned the land: if they choose to stop renting, they can up and leave.
quote:
It's because they hold no real power, and the spreading thin of the family line leads to decadence and a weakening of the family name (see also: Cormaeril). Also, the farther one gets from the main branch, the lesser the 'automatic' title one possesses.
|
| Dalor Darden |
Posted - 07 Nov 2012 : 01:14:16
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
I think Banarchy would be an "interesting" form of government. I'd think Cormyr is just a strange half-anachronistic Feudalocracy, paying tribute to Shadowdale's Elminstarchy, at war with Sembia's Idiocracy, Thay's Tamocracy, and Telamont's Shadocracy.
Comedian. |
| Ayrik |
Posted - 07 Nov 2012 : 01:00:56
I think Banarchy would be an "interesting" form of government. I'd think Cormyr is just a strange half-anachronistic Feudalocracy, paying tribute to Shadowdale's Elminstarchy, at war with Sembia's Idiocracy, Thay's Tamocracy, and Telamont's Shadocracy. |
| Dalor Darden |
Posted - 06 Nov 2012 : 23:12:27
Looking a little deeper...if it is a Monarchy, is it a constitutional monarchy...?
A Magocracy is a loose definition...is it a Tyrannical Magocracy, a Feudal Magocracy, a Meritorious Magocracy, a ...?
This is the deeper things I'm looking for that may have been given light of day in a novel I haven't read, a sourcebook I don't own and etc. |
| Artemas Entreri |
Posted - 06 Nov 2012 : 21:43:18
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I've dubbed Waterdeep a Cryptocracy.
or a Dopplegangerocracy |
| Dennis |
Posted - 06 Nov 2012 : 21:32:22
There is usually a government behind a government. You mentioned Cormyr, as an example. It's a monarchy, yet most often than not, the Royal Wizard gets the final say. Luskan and Sembia are Plutocratic, yet we know that 'tis really the Brotherhood Arcane and Shade that control them, respectively. So in a way, they are magocracies. Thay, Halruaa, Rashemen, High Imaskar, Nimbral, Deep Imaskar, Aglarond, and the old empires of Netheril and Imaskar are all magocracies.
Chessenta, Arkanul, Damara, Samarach, and Athalantar are monarchies.
Amn, Thesk, Innarlith and Tashalar are oligarchies.
Impiltur's government is feudal confederation.
Murghom Post-Spellplague is ruled by dragons. What do you call it? Dragocracy? Lizarocracy? |
| Firestorm |
Posted - 06 Nov 2012 : 20:35:07
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
Ok, since today is "Election Day" in the United States, I thought I would talk about the government types of the Forgotten Realms.
Well, not talk about so much as ask:
What are the government types of the various nations of the Forgotten Realms?
Cormyr is not a Feudal Monarchy (as an example), instead it is more an Absolute Monarchy (or in fact, a Tyranny) in my view. I suppose it could be viewed as a Puppet Monarchy when Vangie is around...but what indeed are the government types of the various Nations, City-States and etc. of The Realms?
EDIT: details would be good too! Like Sembia is a Plutocracy in my eyes...but I don't see how that works exactly. So I'm hoping for details.
I don't think we have an equivalent to a mageocracy in the modern world, but Thay and Haluraa are exactly that. both very different types tho.
Waterdeep does seem to be run like a "skull and bones" type club |
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