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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
 Posted - 06 Nov 2012 : 20:18:39
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Ok, since today is "Election Day" in the United States, I thought I would talk about the government types of the Forgotten Realms.
Well, not talk about so much as ask:
What are the government types of the various nations of the Forgotten Realms?
Cormyr is not a Feudal Monarchy (as an example), instead it is more an Absolute Monarchy (or in fact, a Tyranny) in my view. I suppose it could be viewed as a Puppet Monarchy when Vangie is around...but what indeed are the government types of the various Nations, City-States and etc. of The Realms?
EDIT: details would be good too! Like Sembia is a Plutocracy in my eyes...but I don't see how that works exactly. So I'm hoping for details.
NATIONAL GOVERNMENTS
Cormyr: Centralized Administrative Monarchy (added 11/11/12)
Impiltur: Decentralized Theocratic Monarchy (added 11/9/12)
Turmish: Democratic Republic (added 11/7/12)
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The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
Edited by - Dalor Darden on 11 Nov 2012 16:06:51
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
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Firestorm
Senior Scribe
Canada
826 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2012 : 20:35:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
Ok, since today is "Election Day" in the United States, I thought I would talk about the government types of the Forgotten Realms.
Well, not talk about so much as ask:
What are the government types of the various nations of the Forgotten Realms?
Cormyr is not a Feudal Monarchy (as an example), instead it is more an Absolute Monarchy (or in fact, a Tyranny) in my view. I suppose it could be viewed as a Puppet Monarchy when Vangie is around...but what indeed are the government types of the various Nations, City-States and etc. of The Realms?
EDIT: details would be good too! Like Sembia is a Plutocracy in my eyes...but I don't see how that works exactly. So I'm hoping for details.
I don't think we have an equivalent to a mageocracy in the modern world, but Thay and Haluraa are exactly that. both very different types tho.
Waterdeep does seem to be run like a "skull and bones" type club |
Edited by - Firestorm on 06 Nov 2012 20:35:50 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2012 : 21:32:22
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There is usually a government behind a government. You mentioned Cormyr, as an example. It's a monarchy, yet most often than not, the Royal Wizard gets the final say. Luskan and Sembia are Plutocratic, yet we know that 'tis really the Brotherhood Arcane and Shade that control them, respectively. So in a way, they are magocracies. Thay, Halruaa, Rashemen, High Imaskar, Nimbral, Deep Imaskar, Aglarond, and the old empires of Netheril and Imaskar are all magocracies.
Chessenta, Arkanul, Damara, Samarach, and Athalantar are monarchies.
Amn, Thesk, Innarlith and Tashalar are oligarchies.
Impiltur's government is feudal confederation.
Murghom Post-Spellplague is ruled by dragons. What do you call it? Dragocracy? Lizarocracy? |
Every beginning has an end. |
Edited by - Dennis on 06 Nov 2012 21:42:11 |
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Artemas Entreri
Great Reader
USA
3131 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2012 : 21:43:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I've dubbed Waterdeep a Cryptocracy. 
or a Dopplegangerocracy  |
Some people have a way with words, and other people...oh, uh, not have way. -Steve Martin
Amazon "KindleUnlimited" Free Trial: http://amzn.to/2AJ4yD2
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2012 : 23:12:27
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Looking a little deeper...if it is a Monarchy, is it a constitutional monarchy...?
A Magocracy is a loose definition...is it a Tyrannical Magocracy, a Feudal Magocracy, a Meritorious Magocracy, a ...?
This is the deeper things I'm looking for that may have been given light of day in a novel I haven't read, a sourcebook I don't own and etc. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7969 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2012 : 01:00:56
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| I think Banarchy would be an "interesting" form of government. I'd think Cormyr is just a strange half-anachronistic Feudalocracy, paying tribute to Shadowdale's Elminstarchy, at war with Sembia's Idiocracy, Thay's Tamocracy, and Telamont's Shadocracy. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2012 : 01:14:16
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
I think Banarchy would be an "interesting" form of government. I'd think Cormyr is just a strange half-anachronistic Feudalocracy, paying tribute to Shadowdale's Elminstarchy, at war with Sembia's Idiocracy, Thay's Tamocracy, and Telamont's Shadocracy.
Comedian. |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2012 : 02:24:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
Cormyr is not a Feudal Monarchy (as an example), instead it is more an Absolute Monarchy (or in fact, a Tyranny) in my view. I suppose it could be viewed as a Puppet Monarchy when Vangie is around...but what indeed are the government types of the various Nations, City-States and etc. of The Realms?
Various tidbits from Brian Cortijo on Cormyr's government type:-
quote:
Cormyr isn't feudal, so nobles of the realm don't gain absolute right to territory, to then parcel out.
quote:
Cormyr is a centralized monarchy. There's nothing feudal about it.
Tenant farmers on a particular noble's land are no more beholden to that noble than they would be a rich commoner who owned the land: if they choose to stop renting, they can up and leave.
quote:
It's because they hold no real power, and the spreading thin of the family line leads to decadence and a weakening of the family name (see also: Cormaeril). Also, the farther one gets from the main branch, the lesser the 'automatic' title one possesses.
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Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2012 : 04:38:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
I think Banarchy would be an "interesting" form of government. I'd think Cormyr is just a strange half-anachronistic Feudalocracy, paying tribute to Shadowdale's Elminstarchy, at war with Sembia's Idiocracy, Thay's Tamocracy, and Telamont's Shadocracy.
Incidentally, there's a form of government whose name is derived from a deity. Not Bane, though. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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vorpalanvil
Seeker
USA
90 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2012 : 08:41:35
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| Though I set my games in the north, I often have wondered about the political make up of the Dalelands. Any insight as to their varying political systems? |
"I'm a busy man! I got places to go, monsters to kill!" attributed to 1st level bard |
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Lord Bane
Senior Scribe
Germany
479 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2012 : 09:59:41
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| I would see the Dales as a loose confederation with everyone doing his own business. |
The driving force in the multiverse is evil, for it forces good to act. |
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vorpalanvil
Seeker
USA
90 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2012 : 10:54:30
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| Yeah I kind of figured that. I was looking for some more cannon type of info. Also, you are evil and are probably just trying to sew discontent. I cast the 1st level spell "Polish cavalry charge" at you. Haha! |
"I'm a busy man! I got places to go, monsters to kill!" attributed to 1st level bard |
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Lord Bane
Senior Scribe
Germany
479 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2012 : 18:55:20
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Oh if i wanted to sew discontent i would say that the dales rightfully belong under Zhentarim control
As for your cavalry charge, i counter with nuclear overkill |
The driving force in the multiverse is evil, for it forces good to act. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
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Lord Bane
Senior Scribe
Germany
479 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2012 : 20:08:32
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The Black Network does offer it for sale, for a cheap price and very endurable, seek out your nearest Zhentarim representative and strike the deal today, you won´t be disappointed!
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The driving force in the multiverse is evil, for it forces good to act. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2012 : 20:17:20
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quote:
Originally posted by Lord Bane
The Black Network does offer it for sale, for a cheap price and very endurable, seek out your nearest Zhentarim representative and strike the deal today, you won´t be disappointed!
So you're saying the Zhentarim are a bunch of seamstresses? Well, that would explain a lot... |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4685 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2012 : 21:16:10
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| Clearly there are some communities lead by Priests or Priestesses. Following the dogma of their deity. I seem to recall a few communities actually select from there peers a mayor. I however have not seen anything close to an open election where all can vote. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Quale
Master of Realmslore
1757 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2012 : 21:52:47
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| Turmish is a democratic republic |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 07 Nov 2012 : 22:28:13
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Didn't some book list all the different types? I think one of the AEG books has a good section on gov't types as well.
Hmmmmm.... Wooly's got me thinking. Sewing discontent (with a thread of discontent) into the fabric of government. Weaving the tapestry of history, etc.... something there. I'm thinking some sort of artifact... perhaps Loki's needle of discord? |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 08 Nov 2012 22:09:06 |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2012 : 18:47:33
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Machi's Nen-based threads. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7969 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2012 : 19:46:42
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quote:
vorpalanvil
Though I set my games in the north, I often have wondered about the political make up of the Dalelands. Any insight as to their varying political systems?
They tend to each govern their own affairs. Typically through some sort of "democratically" elected local mayor or lordling. I view the Dales as basically being little municipalities.
[Edit]
Oh yeah, there's plenty of meddling Harpers manipulating these little governments. The Dales have traditionally been one of their stronghold regions (although the North might have more Harpers covering more territory, I dunno). |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 08 Nov 2012 20:36:40 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2012 : 22:09:56
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| Is CK a Grognardocracy? |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2012 : 22:31:39
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Nope. 'Tis Oligarchy. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11695 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2012 : 22:47:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Firestorm
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
Ok, since today is "Election Day" in the United States, I thought I would talk about the government types of the Forgotten Realms.
Well, not talk about so much as ask:
What are the government types of the various nations of the Forgotten Realms?
Cormyr is not a Feudal Monarchy (as an example), instead it is more an Absolute Monarchy (or in fact, a Tyranny) in my view. I suppose it could be viewed as a Puppet Monarchy when Vangie is around...but what indeed are the government types of the various Nations, City-States and etc. of The Realms?
EDIT: details would be good too! Like Sembia is a Plutocracy in my eyes...but I don't see how that works exactly. So I'm hoping for details.
I don't think we have an equivalent to a mageocracy in the modern world, but Thay and Haluraa are exactly that. both very different types tho.
Waterdeep does seem to be run like a "skull and bones" type club
Yeah, I'd call Thay a "Parliamentary magocracy" and Halruaa a "Peer-elected Monarchist magocracy" |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11695 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2012 : 22:54:47
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quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
There is usually a government behind a government. You mentioned Cormyr, as an example. It's a monarchy, yet most often than not, the Royal Wizard gets the final say. Luskan and Sembia are Plutocratic, yet we know that 'tis really the Brotherhood Arcane and Shade that control them, respectively. So in a way, they are magocracies. Thay, Halruaa, Rashemen, High Imaskar, Nimbral, Deep Imaskar, Aglarond, and the old empires of Netheril and Imaskar are all magocracies.
I'd disagree with Aglarond and Rashemen being basic magocracies. Aglarond is ruled by a mage, but there is no privilege for mages (well, not much), etc.. Rashemen is closer to a "normal" magocracy... but its "true" rulers are the wychlaran who are probably equally divided between mages and priests. Maybe a better term would be "theocratic magocracy"? |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2012 : 23:10:01
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Yeah, I'd call Thay a "Parliamentary magocracy" and Halruaa a "Peer-elected Monarchist magocracy"
The Old Thay, yes. But Szass Tam's Thay is more like Monarchist/Tyrannical Magocracy. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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Dennis
Great Reader
9933 Posts |
Posted - 08 Nov 2012 : 23:15:50
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by Dennis
There is usually a government behind a government. You mentioned Cormyr, as an example. It's a monarchy, yet most often than not, the Royal Wizard gets the final say. Luskan and Sembia are Plutocratic, yet we know that 'tis really the Brotherhood Arcane and Shade that control them, respectively. So in a way, they are magocracies. Thay, Halruaa, Rashemen, High Imaskar, Nimbral, Deep Imaskar, Aglarond, and the old empires of Netheril and Imaskar are all magocracies.
I'd disagree with Aglarond and Rashemen being basic magocracies. Aglarond is ruled by a mage, but there is no privilege for mages (well, not much), etc.. Rashemen is closer to a "normal" magocracy... but its "true" rulers are the wychlaran who are probably equally divided between mages and priests. Maybe a better term would be "theocratic magocracy"?
Most of the positions of importance in Aglarond are held by wizards. That's pretty much an obvious sign of privilege given to their class.
The Witches of Rashemen are more like theurges than pure arcane magic-users and pure priests. So you migh be correct about your assertion that it's "theocratic magocracy." Though I normaly don't give much weight on the sub-type. Magocracy is enough, for me. |
Every beginning has an end. |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
Posted - 09 Nov 2012 : 00:59:06
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If you're composing a listing of governmental types in the Relams, Dalor, then I think you can use what I quoted from Brian Cortijo below as confirmation for Cormyr:-
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Dalor Darden
Cormyr is not a Feudal Monarchy (as an example), instead it is more an Absolute Monarchy (or in fact, a Tyranny) in my view. I suppose it could be viewed as a Puppet Monarchy when Vangie is around...but what indeed are the government types of the various Nations, City-States and etc. of The Realms?
Various tidbits from Brian Cortijo on Cormyr's government type:-
quote:
Cormyr isn't feudal, so nobles of the realm don't gain absolute right to territory, to then parcel out.
quote:
Cormyr is a centralized monarchy. There's nothing feudal about it.
Tenant farmers on a particular noble's land are no more beholden to that noble than they would be a rich commoner who owned the land: if they choose to stop renting, they can up and leave.
quote:
It's because they hold no real power, and the spreading thin of the family line leads to decadence and a weakening of the family name (see also: Cormaeril). Also, the farther one gets from the main branch, the lesser the 'automatic' title one possesses.
|
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
Scribe for the Candlekeep Compendium -- Volume IX now available (Oct 2007)
"So Saith Ed" -- the collected Candlekeep replies of Ed Greenwood
Zhoth'ilam Folio -- The Electronic Misadventures of a Rambling Sage |
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Dalor Darden
Great Reader
USA
4211 Posts |
Posted - 09 Nov 2012 : 01:31:39
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| So with Cormyr...an Absolute Monarchy then? |
The Old Grey Box and AD&D for me! |
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The Sage
Procrastinator Most High
Australia
31701 Posts |
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Topic |
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Government Types
