| T O P I C R E V I E W |
| coastiemike |
Posted - 11 Mar 2008 : 02:34:17
How all. I am planning a game for my group and need the quick, cliff-note info for the following:
1) What was the initial event that led to the fall of the mythal around Myth Drannor? I thought I had read about a dragon escaping or having something to do with it but just can't find it again.
2) What led to the fall of Netheril? Was it when Karsus died, the magic failed and caused his giant city to fail, creating a domino effect? If not, then what was the initial event that led to the fall of Netheril?
Thanks in advance for any help. |
| 27 L A T E S T R E P L I E S (Newest First) |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 22 Mar 2008 : 23:46:44
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
There's polar bears too!  
Well, that makes sense. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 22 Mar 2008 : 23:33:08
There's polar bears too!
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| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 22 Mar 2008 : 23:17:27
quote:
Originally posted by The Sage
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
I know the character you're talking about, but is that actually in canon?
I know of no references to penguins in the Realms, save for the artifact Moonpenguin of Boof.
There are penguins in the Realms -- they're referenced in both The Great Glacier and The Savage Frontier tomes. Ed also talked about penguins in his '04 and '05 "Spin a Yarn" tales.
So on Toril, penguins actually live near the North Pole. I see... |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 22 Mar 2008 : 23:16:24
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
I know the character you're talking about, but is that actually in canon?
I know of no references to penguins in the Realms, save for the artifact Moonpenguin of Boof.
I'm assuming his talking penguin comment was a joke; I've seen nothing to indicate that any form of bird was involved in the saving of Selunarra.
Ah, OK. It is a cute joke though. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 21 Mar 2008 : 00:02:23
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
I know the character you're talking about, but is that actually in canon?
I know of no references to penguins in the Realms, save for the artifact Moonpenguin of Boof.
There are penguins in the Realms -- they're referenced in both The Great Glacier and The Savage Frontier tomes. Ed also talked about penguins in his '04 and '05 "Spin a Yarn" tales.
|
| ShadezofDis |
Posted - 20 Mar 2008 : 20:46:18
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
I know the character you're talking about, but is that actually in canon?
I know of no references to penguins in the Realms, save for the artifact Moonpenguin of Boof.
Remember though, this is information coming from a Giant Space Hamster, so he may just be misleading to keep his spot atop the D&D critter pile.
And to think, I actually got a full night of sleep... |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 20 Mar 2008 : 20:18:02
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
I know the character you're talking about, but is that actually in canon?
I know of no references to penguins in the Realms, save for the artifact Moonpenguin of Boof.
I'm assuming his talking penguin comment was a joke; I've seen nothing to indicate that any form of bird was involved in the saving of Selunarra. |
| Markustay |
Posted - 20 Mar 2008 : 19:25:21
I hate those Lunar Penguins, always dancin' around on the Moon, erasing the astronauts footprints...
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| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 20 Mar 2008 : 13:36:37
I know the character you're talking about, but is that actually in canon? |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 20 Mar 2008 : 11:27:21
quote:
Originally posted by tauster
quote:
Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen
At least two cities didn't fall, though: Shade (which went into the Plane of Shadow) and Opus (which was taken to the moon by a talking penguin). Some mythallars also survived to one degree or another.
...a talking penguin?!?  
Where does that come from?
Bloom County. |
| tauster |
Posted - 20 Mar 2008 : 11:13:44
quote:
Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen
At least two cities didn't fall, though: Shade (which went into the Plane of Shadow) and Opus (which was taken to the moon by a talking penguin). Some mythallars also survived to one degree or another.
...a talking penguin?!?
Where does that come from? |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 19 Mar 2008 : 00:15:05
quote:
Originally posted by Jamallo Kreen
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
The elves set the binding ritual so that the only key to freeing the infernal trio was when a "red dragon that never knew malice or greed in its heart flies over the Coronal's throne."
Page 13 of The Fall of Myth Drannor, which you can get for free from the Wizards downloads page.
Netheril fell because Karsus stripped away the power of the goddess of magic, causing all magic to fail. It wasn't a domino effect; all the cities, wherever they were, suddenly tumbled down.
At least two cities didn't fall, though: Shade (which went into the Plane of Shadow) and Opus (which was taken to the moon by a talking penguin). Some mythallars also survived to one degree or another.
And three more cities were caught by Mystra 1.0 before they hit the ground. |
| The Sage |
Posted - 18 Mar 2008 : 23:31:58
Opus/Selūnarra now resides in the Gates of the Moon, Selūne's [planar] realm.
|
| Jamallo Kreen |
Posted - 18 Mar 2008 : 23:12:47
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
The elves set the binding ritual so that the only key to freeing the infernal trio was when a "red dragon that never knew malice or greed in its heart flies over the Coronal's throne."
Page 13 of The Fall of Myth Drannor, which you can get for free from the Wizards downloads page.
Netheril fell because Karsus stripped away the power of the goddess of magic, causing all magic to fail. It wasn't a domino effect; all the cities, wherever they were, suddenly tumbled down.
At least two cities didn't fall, though: Shade (which went into the Plane of Shadow) and Opus (which was taken to the moon by a talking penguin). Some mythallars also survived to one degree or another.
|
| Daviot |
Posted - 12 Mar 2008 : 06:09:30
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
I always got the impression that the main reason for Myth Drannor's fall was that the different peoples of the city ceased respecting each other and stopped acting as a cohesive unit (which of course, made the city more vunerable).
I most certainly agree. When the city's spirit of cooperation fell apart, then you had a war in the streets over who was the be the next Coronal, culminating in the Srinshee taking the Crownblade and departing Faerūn with it, the cohesiveness and morale were in the toilet before the trouble with fiends and the Army of Darkness ever began.  |
| ShadezofDis |
Posted - 11 Mar 2008 : 20:03:58
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I'd hardly say they weren't concerned about it. They likely thought that if something is already insanely unlkely, it doesn't need to have more conditions (which could create a weakness in the binding) added on to it.
And I'd assume the more conditions you put then the harder it is to make the prison. The unlikelyhood of that particular occurrence probably made the spell quite difficult in the first place.
Also, Vegan Malarites is the best thing I've read in days, good job Wooly. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 11 Mar 2008 : 18:07:06
quote:
Originally posted by IronAngel
I suppose the elves were short-sighted for once, and just winged a goofy trigger that they never thought would come true. Had they been genuinely concerned about making sure the trio's never released, they would have set the trigger as something like: "When a red dragon who has never known malice or greed mates with a silver dragon champion of Tiamat just above the Coronal's throne, causing their riders - a gentle priestess of Lloth and a vegan Malarite - fall from the dragons' backs and sing ancient elven hymns until they are pierced on the branches of two oak trees below."
Simply put, I guess the elves were tossing ideas around, and just picked the one that sounded the funniest. It was unlikely enough not to be analyzed further. The "real" reason, of course, is that it's a good plot hook.
I'd hardly say they weren't concerned about it. They likely thought that if something is already insanely unlkely, it doesn't need to have more conditions (which could create a weakness in the binding) added on to it. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 11 Mar 2008 : 18:05:08
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Thanks for explaining that, Wooly. Although, I think the examples YOU gave (ie. kind priestess of Lolth) would have been better than the one the elves actually used! I take it when the prison was created, no one was busy raising a kindly red dragon?
Correct. Garnet and Saeval Ammath both came along much later. |
| IronAngel |
Posted - 11 Mar 2008 : 18:02:59
I suppose the elves were short-sighted for once, and just winged a goofy trigger that they never thought would come true. Had they been genuinely concerned about making sure the trio's never released, they would have set the trigger as something like: "When a red dragon who has never known malice or greed mates with a silver dragon champion of Tiamat just above the Coronal's throne, causing their riders - a gentle priestess of Lloth and a vegan Malarite - fall from the dragons' backs and sing ancient elven hymns until they are pierced on the branches of two oak trees below."
Simply put, I guess the elves were tossing ideas around, and just picked the one that sounded the funniest. It was unlikely enough not to be analyzed further. The "real" reason, of course, is that it's a good plot hook. |
| Kuje |
Posted - 11 Mar 2008 : 17:54:46
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
I was wondering, why on earth would wardens create circumstances like that to open in the prison in the first place? Seems pointless to me.
I did download that sourcebook, but I'm away from my own computer at the moment.
Magically speaking, creating a prison that can never be opened is pretty tough. It's easier to create one with a triggering mechanism, and then simply set that triggering mechanism to something incredibly unlikely. It's a pretty safe bet that there aren't many red dragons "that never knew malice or greed" in their hearts around to fly around in the Realms, much less over the Coronal's throne. Since red dragons pretty much exemplify malice and greed, finding one that has never known either is slightly less difficult than finding a vegan Malarite or a caring, generous priestess of Lolth.
It's kinda the same deal about the elves and how they never figured that Alias would be created, thus freeing Moander. When they sealed him away from Realmspace, how did they ever know that the key would be created. :) |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 11 Mar 2008 : 17:27:31
Thanks for explaining that, Wooly. Although, I think the examples YOU gave (ie. kind priestess of Lolth) would have been better than the one the elves actually used! I take it when the prison was created, no one was busy raising a kindly red dragon? |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 11 Mar 2008 : 14:22:48
quote:
Originally posted by Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
I was wondering, why on earth would wardens create circumstances like that to open in the prison in the first place? Seems pointless to me.
I did download that sourcebook, but I'm away from my own computer at the moment.
Magically speaking, creating a prison that can never be opened is pretty tough. It's easier to create one with a triggering mechanism, and then simply set that triggering mechanism to something incredibly unlikely. It's a pretty safe bet that there aren't many red dragons "that never knew malice or greed" in their hearts around to fly around in the Realms, much less over the Coronal's throne. Since red dragons pretty much exemplify malice and greed, finding one that has never known either is slightly less difficult than finding a vegan Malarite or a caring, generous priestess of Lolth. |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 11 Mar 2008 : 14:11:07
quote:
Originally posted by Mace Hammerhand
What did Myth Drannor in were three mightily pissed off demons who got out of imprisonment after a couple of decades because some wizard decided to let is good red dragon fly across a spire in the city and thus create the only circumstances under which said prison would open.
It had been 1800 years. I doubt Saeval Ammath had a clue that what he was doing would result in the freeing of the Trio Nefarious. It's a pretty safe bet that the triggering conditions for that prison -- or even its existence! -- were known to very few people, if any at all. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 11 Mar 2008 : 13:49:56
I was wondering, why on earth would wardens create circumstances like that to open in the prison in the first place? Seems pointless to me.
I did download that sourcebook, but I'm away from my own computer at the moment. |
| Mace Hammerhand |
Posted - 11 Mar 2008 : 13:46:08
What did Myth Drannor in were three mightily pissed off demons who got out of imprisonment after a couple of decades because some wizard decided to let is good red dragon fly across a spire in the city and thus create the only circumstances under which said prison would open. |
| Rinonalyrna Fathomlin |
Posted - 11 Mar 2008 : 13:39:26
I always got the impression that the main reason for Myth Drannor's fall was that the different peoples of the city ceased respecting each other and stopped acting as a cohesive unit (which of course, made the city more vunerable).
I've always seen it as a morality tale of sorts (albeit one that's not fictional in the setting). |
| Wooly Rupert |
Posted - 11 Mar 2008 : 06:09:23
quote:
The elves set the binding ritual so that the only key to freeing the infernal trio was when a "red dragon that never knew malice or greed in its heart flies over the Coronal's throne."
Page 13 of The Fall of Myth Drannor, which you can get for free from the Wizards downloads page.
Netheril fell because Karsus stripped away the power of the goddess of magic, causing all magic to fail. It wasn't a domino effect; all the cities, wherever they were, suddenly tumbled down.
|
