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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5585 Posts

Posted - 27 Apr 2021 :  12:59:18  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Nearing the end of Pool of Twilight.

Found out that the guardian of the pool is a black dragon named Dusk.

This black dragon believes it caused the rage of dragons 300 years ago (i'm going to assume as well as being enraged the dragons also become somewhat delusional).

He was shot in the eye near Phlan and stumbled upon the Pool of Twilight, releasing its former guardian (a storm giant).



Now this particular bit is interesting because Dusk claims to have sent repeated attacks against Phlan over the 3 centuries since his imprisonment.


From Pool of Radiance we know that Tyranthraxus had a base in the Dragonspine Mountains. He assumed many hosts over the years. According to a tale in the Pool of Radiance computer game he was encountered by a barbarian named Dirg and trapped again by some triangle of power.

Tyranthraxus' presence pollutes the Pool of Radiance.

So what if Tyranthraxus was originally trapped in a vial of water and thrown into Lake Longreach by Baron Schodt. He was released by some fool barbarian and then reimprisoned in the Pool of Radiance in the Dragonspine Mountains (i'm going to guess the barbarian hero defeated a number of tyranthraxus' hosts until he possessed the barbarian's lizard pet and then jumped into the body of the storm giant within the pool of radiance and became trapped there.

Tyranthraxus' presence in that pool of radiance for many many centuries pollutes it into the pool of twilight.

Then fast forward to 1018 DR. Dusk the dragon (possibly a manipulated relation to Iyrauroth given the power and location and megalomania) goes on the rampage and gets shot in the eye near Phlan. He finds the pool of twilight and submerges himself thereby releasing the former guardian.

I'm wondering if Tyranthraxus was still trapped in the pools (his ioun stone ritual actually necessary to escape the pool and thus achieve world domination). He transports to the one in Phlan and various others, but can't leave the confines of a pool.

Dusk starts sending hordes of monsters against Phlan out of petty revenge. Eventually Sossar the dragon submerges into the Pool of Radiance in Phlan to acquire the energy enough to defeat the hordes. Unfortunately he becomes the guardian of that pool and host to Tyranthraxus (who still cant escape).

Then Tyranthraxus tries that figure of power using six ioun stones hoping that will allow him to leave.



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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5585 Posts

Posted - 27 Apr 2021 :  20:53:12  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Pool of Twilight (1372 DR)

Kern
Kern Militiades Desanea, 22 years old. Lives in Denlor’s Tower with Shal and Tarl [1]
Has flaming red hair [1]
Regularly dreams about a shadow that attacks him, suffers injuries from his dream [1]
Paladin of Tyr in training [1]
Immune to magic [1]

Listle
Listle Onopordum, Shal’s apprentice, short dark hair, pretty woman but boyish appearance. Moon elf, silver eyes. Has a ruby pendant hanging from a silvery chain, originally from Lantan, made by gnomes, can make Listle solid. Precocious [1,16]
Turned up at Denlor’s Tower two years ago wanting to learn magic from Shal [5]
10 years ago on an island north of Evermeet, the evil wizard Sifahir lived in a tower. He enchanted many people and drained the of life before discarding their husks. Listle was the first to escape because she could walk through walls. She helped rescue the other prisoners [6]
300 years ago Sifahir was advisor to Queen Amlauril. His magic helped secure the island of Evermeet. Then he turned bad, tortured prisoners for weeks, used his magic to wreak havoc on villages that couldn’t pay taxes. Whispered in Queen Amlauril’s ear about conquest and plots against her from family and friends. Sifahir was exiled and cursed so he would die if he ever left the island of his exile. [16]
Listle began life as an illusion created by Sifahir to guard his treasure chamber. Over the years she became sentient (exposure to the magic in his treasure chamber). Then she found an amulet in the chamber made by gnomes from Lantan, one of its powers was to make illusions solid [16]
Listle helped Primul, Winebrook, Brookwine, and many others to escape [16]
Sifahir sends monsters to recapture Listle, Primul, etc. It has been 3 years since his last attack. The latest monster (defeated by Kern) was a huge roper like illusion designed to catch Listle [16]

Sirana
Sirana, magic user new guildmaster for 3 months – she killed former guildmaster Bercan. Provided 300 enchanted onyx longswords and 300 enchanted ebony breastplates to the thieves to fight the temple of Tyr. Commands 9 spinagons. Tall, shapely, dark hair, beautiful. [3]
Secretly a half erinyes. Daughter of Lord Marcus and the erinyes that served him (she was pregnant as Lord Marcus perished). Owns a lacquered black box full of magical memories (Sirana was given the box by her mother as she lay dying, when Sirana killed her at 9 years of age during a mock duel) [4]
Possesses the ability to absorb the power of fiends she kills (her mother, Slayer) [4]
Found a new source of power. Intends to retrieve the Hammer of Tyr and ransom it to a dark god for the power to become a demigod [4]
Summoned Slayer, slew him after he failed to retrieve the Oracle of Tyr [4]
Summoned Hoag, a hamatula, he has served her well in the past [4]
Sirana discovered the Pool of Twilight and how to free it from the pool (by swapping places). She made a pact with the guardian that she would free it, if it gave her the power to defeat her enemies [4]
Summons Sigh, a bastellus / dreamstalker after gaining more power from the guardian of the Pool of Twilight [4]
Pretended to be a wild mage and accompany Kern and Listle on their quest [7]

Daile
Daughter of Ren o the Blade. [7]
18 years old, lived her whole live in the Valley of the Falls [7]
Dead Orc Ridge bounds the west side of the Valley of the Falls. 1000 ft tall cliff with a waterfall on the north side of the Valley. Narrow gorge runs through the centre of the Valley [7]
Ciela, Daile’s mother, a druidess, died two years ago, was buried in a cairn beside the waterfall in the Valley of the Falls [7]
Owns a magic bow fashioned by Ren (her polished it by rubbing two ioun stones on the bow) [7]
Ren accompanied Daile, Kern, Listle, Miltiades, and Sirana to the Red Tower. Ren was slain by Hoag [10]

Miltiades
Buried in a crypt 22 years ago in Valhingen Graveyard [7]
Returned to unlife to aid Kern on his quest [7]
Owns a figurine of wonderous power in the form of a snow white war horse named Eritophenes
Owns a gold brooch with a single clear crystal (a gem of communication). A gift from Evaine, it has a twin that allows her to communicate with him over any distance. Very rare [9]
Was tasked with keeping the secrets of Turell safely hidden away [20]

Temple of Phlan
During Pools of Darkness, Tarl threw the Hammer of Tyr into the Pool of Darkness to destroy it. The hammer did not return (supposedly Bane stole it). Militiades made a prophecy that Shal and Tarl’s son would lead a quest for the Hammer of Tyr [1]
When the Hammer of Tyr was lost the warding spells on the temple of Tyr began to fade. Clerics began dying one by one over the last five years (did someone target the temple and clerics beginning 5 years ago????) [1]
Tarl was badly wounded last year and permanently blinded in the attack [1]
Tarl can see magical auras (despite being blind), a trait that has increased gradually over the years [2]
Paladins of the Order of Tyr must wear full battledress before entering a temple of Tyr [2]
Supplicant paladins of the Order of Tyr wear a tabard of pure unblemished white [2]
Temple of Tyr in the centre of the city. Built several decades ago, the first step in an effort to reclaimed the ruined areas of the city. Massive citadel with high stone walls and arrow slits and crenelations. The inner keep is square with dark stone and a bronze dome. Gates made of forge hardened steel [2,3]
Patriarch Anton, oldest and foremost cleric of Tyr [2]
30 clerics attend the temple of Tyr. 5 years ago there were 60+ clerics and a dozen novices, they all perished over 5 years some lost to disease others burst into flames [2]
Sister Sendara, ancient cleric of Tyr (older than Anton by at least 20 years), aurguress, expert on prophecy [2]
Brother Dameron, round faced, young, expansive paunch
Rialad, tall, handsome, steel blue eyes. Sole surviving paladin of the Order of Tyr. Arrogant. Slain by Slayer [3]
Clerics of Tyr wear grey robes (with chain mail hidden underneath) [3]
Sister Briatha. Slain by a spinagon [3]
Brother Edmorel, stone faced. Slain by Slayer [3]
Slayer and his thieves failed to retrieve the Oracle of Strife and retreated [3]
Paladin aspirants have plain shields and tabards, they can choose an emblem on the day they become a true paladin
Sister Corenna, middle aged women, intelligent, nerves of steel, steel coloured eyes [15]

Phlan Lore
Denlor’s Tower on the north side of the city [2]
Phlan had undergone a steady decline in fortunes since the loss of the Hammer of Tyr. Dead trees line the streets. Cobbled streets cracked and covered with slime, missing cobbles filled with foul muck, chimneys belch out sulphurous clouds. Houses are squalid and filthy. The Death Gate looks like it will collapse from neglect. Tarl feels the influence of dark magic everywhere in the city [2]
The Bloated Corpse, a cheap unsavoury tavern. Its name was later changed to the Golden Feather [2,20]
The Death Gates had been called many names in the past; Fire Dragon Gates, Ogre's Bane Gates, Giant's Doom Gates. But finally they had simply come to be called the Death Gates, for again and again armies of evil had broken and perished against them. [18]

Thieves Guild Lore
Phlan’s thieves guild. 300 members, led by guildmaster Sirana
“Slayer”, huge assassin 7 ft tall, 2nd in command of the thieves guild (for 3 months). Can use magic, protected himself with a crimson aura, cast a green bolt of energy that dissolved Brother Edmorel. Secretly an abishai. Ordered to retrieve the Oracle of Strife [3]
Kankorlin, wiry, shaved head, a mass of scar tissue covered one eye. Member of thieves guild, loyal to former guildmaster Bercan. Slain by Slayer [3]
Bercan, former guildmaster of the thieves guild. Slain 3 months ago by Sirana. Lost his left ear in a duel some years ago, ever since members of the guild notched their left ear [5]

Oracle of Strife Lore
The Oracle of Strife, a book supposedly written over 1000 years ago by Bane himself. The book contained 13 prophecies that detailed the events Bane would bring upon Faerun [2]
Long ago Bane went to his sister Shar who concocted a potion made of midnight. Bane drunk the potion and entered a delirium where he foretold the 13 prophecies penned in the Oracle of Strife [2]
The Oracle of Strife was lost for a long time, then 300 years ago a cleric of Tyr found it in a ruined temple of Bane in the primeval forests west of the Moonsea. It was taken to Phlan and locked away by powerful wards [2]
In the last century the book was forgotten until the loss of the Hammer of Tyr when it was discovered once again (beneath the temple of Tyr????) [2]
The last prophecy concerns Bane’s death in the Time of Troubles. Bane disliked it and crossed much of the prophecy out [2]
When winter comes with magic wild,
Then must the Seeker go
To a riven tower of magic red,
Where a city was shackled below.
With him must come four heroes,
No less and neither no more
To battle the lurking Warder
For this relic of ancient lore.
Though dark may fall before them,
Their strife has just begun,
For awaiting them still is the twilight pool's
Shadowed guardian." [2]

Pool of Twilight
Pool of Twilight in the Dragonspine Mountains, watched over by a guardian [4]
Guardian is trapped in the Pool of Twilight. Isolated for centuries [4]
Guardian can imbue people with power from the Pool of Twilight. It gives them liquid from the pool to consume, grants them abilities like better spellcasting, the ability to see in darkness, the ability to summon shadowy creatures known as bastellus or dreamstalkers, the ability to create shadows and give them life [4,12]
Only way to free the guardian is to swap places with it [4]
The guardian has sent his minions to destroy Phlan many times over the centuries (why????) but they are always defeated [4]
The guardian is sending nightmares to haunt Kern’s dreams [6]
Anyone that submerges themselves in the pool becomes its new guardian. Those that drink from the pool crave more and more of its power until they willingly throw themselves into the pool [12]
The Guardian of the Pool of Twilight is Dusk, a black dragon that once ruled the Moonsea skies 300 years ago. He amassed a flight of evil dragons and assailed the Moonsea region. He was stopped by Andehar Longarm, a hero of Phlan, who loosed an arrow into his left eye. Dusk accidentally found the Pool of Twilight and submerged himself into it, releasing the previous guardian (a storm giant). Dusk mixed droplets from the Pool of Twilight with nearby underground streams to ensnare nearby humanoid tribes. Over the years he sent hordes of monsters against Phlan but they all failed. Sirana freed Dusk and he is now free to make another flight of dragons [16]
Sirana uses the Pool of Twilight to call all nearby undead to her, giants, goblinoids, owlbears, gnolls, humans, elves, dwarves. They enter the pool and are transformed into new hybrid creatures [16]
Dusk was the biggest, most powerful dragon in all the northlands [17]
The Staff of Twilight [18]
Dusk attacked Sirana in the pool and both slew each other and were merged into a new undead guardian [19]
The Pool of Twilight was destroyed and a gaping pit was left where it had been [19]


Pool of Radiance
Porphyris Cadorna was responsible for the death of Tempest (Ren o the Blade’s love) [5]
Evaine, over a century old. Had once sought to exploit a Pool of Radiance to become the greatest wizard in Faerun, but she lost control and was made young again (losing her magical skill). She dedicated her new life to learning magic to destroy the Pools of Radiance. She has destroyed over a dozen of them so far [5]
Evaine has Gamaliel, a great cat (that can shapeshift into a human male) as a familiar. Her first familiar, a snowy owl, was slain while she tried to destroy a Pool of Radiance [5]

Primul Lore
Lives in a great oak tree called Whorl (it can talk) in a forest several leagues east of Phlan [6]
Green elf, greatest blacksmith in all Faerun, Huge elf, massive shoulders and chest, long golden hair, broad handsome face, leaf green eyes. Has a belt made of golden links that heals all wounds (including decapitation) [6]
Lives with two ancient looking green elves, Winebrook and Brookwine – they were great wizards until Sifahir captured them and chained them above the gates of his tower, draining them of magic and life. They had been prisoners for several centuries before Primul, their imprisoned together caused them to slowly merge personalities. [6]
Primul was known as the best blacksmith in a hundred kingdoms. Sifahir sent an army of magical warriors to capture him. Imprisoned in Sifahir’s Tower for 2 centuries and forced to forge weapons for Sifahir and his minions [6]
Used to own a magical axe [6]
Gifted Kern a warhammer made of silver and iron and heavily enchanted (the alloy didn’t mix properly and the warhammer might shatter with a strong blow) [6]


Moonsea
red tower of Marcus lies on the southwestern edge of the Moonsea, about 9 days ride out of Phlan
Snowheart blooms, a rare crimson flower that grows only beneath a shroud of new snow. Useful for magic spells [11]
A rough stone slab of porphyry atop a small hillock in a clearing. Ancient obelisk created by mighty magic users long ago. Only a few of these still exist in Faerun. Allows magic users to travel to another dimension briefly (filled with slavering hordes of monsters with purple tongues and yellow spittle – they do not harm travellers that do not attack them) and then exit the dimension in another place on Faerun (Netherese origin, shadow plane or nightmare plane used to travel long distances????) [11]
Hidden chambers of the city of Turell still survive and dangerous secrets of the city of Turell are still left to be discovered [17]

Dragonspine Mountains
Rock Rats in the Dragonspine Mountains. Long ago a greedy wizard was transformed into a rat by an enchantress (he swindled her). He fled into the mountains and his descendant rats have inherited some of his magic and his greedy nature, stealing shiny or pretty objects they see [11]
High in the mountains a temple perched on the cliff top but it looks like much of the structure slid into the valley centuries ago [12]
A stone golem was set to keep the temple in good repair [14]
Trooper, wizened, ancient, flowing white hair and beard, heavy antique broadsword covered in runes. Paladin of Tyr [14]

Red Tower
The Red Tower of Marcus is magically infused and evil, is slowly rebuilding itself over the years [10]
The Red Tower sits in a valley, with a watch tower on the far end. A headless statue stands near the centre of the ruins. The ruins of the Red Tower cover the valley floor [10]
Miltiades said “This has always been a place of evil” referring to the Red Tower or the valley it is located in (how old is the valley / tower????) [12]
Thousands of undead in coffins line the catacombs of the Red Tower and the cavern walls (where do they come from, how long have they been there????) [12]
An osyluth lairs in the caverns beneath the Red Tower (says it serves Bane and that Bane originally crafted the Hamer of Tyr). Connected to a silvery web by a long thread, at the centre of the web lies the Hammer of Tyr [12]
When the osyluth perished so did the undead and the Red Tower [12]
Flying carpets hidden in the maze below the Red Tower [12]


Other Lore
Trooper and a veteran warrior (of Tyr????) were travelling through the Stonelands when they saw a white fortress perched on a hill [18]
Trooper rescued a princess of Procampur from a kobold den in the Stonelands. Trooper destroyed a beast cult of Malar harrying the highway from Cormyr to the Caravan Cities. Trooper infiltrated the sewers of the biggest goblinoid warren in Faerun to spy on an orc god [20]
Trooper exchanged his life for Miltiades, granting the undead paladin life once more [20]



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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5585 Posts

Posted - 27 Apr 2021 :  21:01:50  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Pool of Twilight was a novel written as though it was a journal of a D&D campaign.

Bad guys inexplicably appeared without rime or reason, along with the tools necessary to defeat those foes.
A prophecy was included and at the end everyone just stood back to make sure Tarl the 2nd was the one to fulfil that prophecy.

The heroes journey to the ruins of the Red Tower, i'm not sure why, and in the caverns they find an osyluth that wasnt there in the Pools of Darkness novel.

This kind of hokey dungeon crawl stuff happens throughout the novel along with the deus ex machina to defeat the baddies.




Apart from that there is quite a bit of potential. Dusk is behind 300 years of attacks on Phlan.

Miltiades intimates that legacies of the city of Turell are hidden all over the area and are dangerous.

Miltiades says the area of the Red Tower has always been a place of evil. The Red Tower was a huge magical artefact able to repair itself and seemingly tied to the osyluth somehow because when the osyluth perished so did the tower. I wonder if the osyluth was the guardian of the pool of radiance (that was corrupted into a pool of darkness).

The Oracle of Strife, a thousand year old book of Bane's prophecies.

A temple in the Dragonspine Mountains built atop the Pool of Twilight. Given Bane's involvement in Pool of Darkness and the prophecy for Pool of Twilight i wonder if it was not his temple and he spent some time trying to gain the power of the pools before realising he would ultimately become a guardian.

The Hammer of Tyr, could that be one of the legacies of TUrell later rededicated to Tyr.
Is Phlan built atop catacombs of Turell and has some powerful magic beneath it.

Lots of possibilities.

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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5585 Posts

Posted - 29 Apr 2021 :  12:58:26  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Had a brief foray into all things Phlan. Not a lot of information out there that isnt directly related to the pools of radiance series.

I'm beginning to think that after the fall of barze and the formation of Thar, the survivors of netheril headed into the northern moonsea and created a whole bunch of settlements, turell was one, northkeep was another.

Looks like Turell had quite a few legacies of netheril and barze that edranka and tyranthraxus didn't manage to get hold of. These fell legacies I'm guessing are what Miltiades was tasked with keeping safe (briefly alluded to in pool of twilight novel).

Lots of tunnels and catacombs and secret vaults all over the northern moonsea that are a leftover of this time. I wonder if the likes of sokol keep, valjevo castle and the forts around the dragon spine mountains are also from this time or were built atop ruined forts from this time.

When turell fell and then northkeep, the people fled to these fortifications and new settlements arose around them.


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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5585 Posts

Posted - 03 May 2021 :  15:29:52  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
And while i remember.
Gamaliel, originally (in Pools of Darkness) is meant to be a familiar for the sorceress Evaine and it is intimated that she can use magic to make Gamaliel assume human form.

In Pool of Twilight it seems that Gamaliel is the one that has control over his transformations, like an innate ability. Furthermore toward the end of the novel it seems that Gamaliel can decide to become human permanently.

He is clearly not a normal cat or even a normal familiar, some kind of creature not documented thus far in any monster manual or sourcebook i've read. However, having recently read one of the short stories involving Myrmeen Lhal and the catlords, and given the Pools series proximity to the Heartlands i'm tempted to conclude that Gamaliel is also one of the catlords.

Which makes me wonder if the catlords are native to some region near the Heartlands. It would have to be a place undiscovered or a place that no longer exists, perhaps somewhere now covered by an enormous desert.

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maransreth
Learned Scribe

Australia
144 Posts

Posted - 04 May 2021 :  08:41:33  Show Profile Send maransreth a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison

And while i remember.
Gamaliel, originally (in Pools of Darkness) is meant to be a familiar for the sorceress Evaine and it is intimated that she can use magic to make Gamaliel assume human form.

In Pool of Twilight it seems that Gamaliel is the one that has control over his transformations, like an innate ability. Furthermore toward the end of the novel it seems that Gamaliel can decide to become human permanently.

He is clearly not a normal cat or even a normal familiar, some kind of creature not documented thus far in any monster manual or sourcebook i've read. However, having recently read one of the short stories involving Myrmeen Lhal and the catlords, and given the Pools series proximity to the Heartlands i'm tempted to conclude that Gamaliel is also one of the catlords.

Which makes me wonder if the catlords are native to some region near the Heartlands. It would have to be a place undiscovered or a place that no longer exists, perhaps somewhere now covered by an enormous desert.



Catlords are originally from Greyhawk and written by Gary in his Gord the Rogue books. I can't remember which book it was but you find out that Gord is the son of THE catlord, which is statted in one of the 1e Monster Manuals.

I always figured that the short story by Scott Ciencin was an attempt to place catlords in the Realms, especially as no other mention is made of them.
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5585 Posts

Posted - 04 May 2021 :  09:03:48  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
That seems almost certainly true, given everyone views FR as the kitchen sink to throw their stuff in.

Now that it's there though, might as well try to make it work with the history.

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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5585 Posts

Posted - 07 May 2021 :  19:25:15  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Soldiers of Ice (1366 DR)

Gnolls Lore
The Burnt Fur tribe, worship Gorellik [5]
Wolf ear, gnoll hunter, slain by a river of ice [prologue]
Hakk Elk Slayer, chieftain of the gnolls, immense, golden fur. Slain by Vreesar who claimed the tribe for himself [5,6]
Brokka, older gnoll, pack leader [5]
Krote Word-Maker, thin, two purple black scars run down its eye. Tattooed across its face. The Speaker for Gorellik (tribal shaman). Carries an amulet a crudely carved animal head similar to a hyena. Martine taught Krote the basics to read / write. Joins Martine at the end journeying to Mulmaster [5,6,7,Epilogue]
The burnt fur tribe have lived in the valley since Arka (the chief before Hakk Elk Slayer – 10+ years ago, how long do gnolls live????) [6]
Varka, short, mangy, warrior, becomes Word-Maker after Krote is outcast [6,Epilogue]
Gnoll stories say the gnomes have strong magic and are powerful [7]
Split Ear, gnoll, warrior [7]
Burnt Fur law, the chief does not kill his warriors except in a duel
Will not stay in land where many died [14]
The Burnt Fur tribe mark their claim to new territory with Claim Stakes (stakes with the heads of their enemies impaled on top) [14]
Blind Eye, Rakk, Broken Tooth, Fat Belly, all gnoll warriors slain by the Vani [18]

Gnoll Language
Kaamak – means dowry, wife’s payment to mate [6]
Rrachk-kiah – means whatever we see we own [6]
Paavak – means a place for evil spirits (haunted [14]

Gnome Language
tukkavaaskivo – means “mean little one” refers to badgers or wolverine [12]
Mustikka – means blueberry bushes or planting area [16]


Shadowdale Lore
Martine, small black haired women, sponsored into the Harpers by Jazrac, not a full Harper yet (acts as a messenger. Buckskin trousers, half cape. Huntress. [1]
Jazrac, wizard, Harper, sponsor of Martine, old (40-50), salt and pepper goatee, wears velveteen robes, thin, tall. Overly dramatic. Mage of Saerloon. Owns a ring of flying. Is a sage not a war wizard, spent years making items and researching, if fighting needs doing then he sends someone like Martine. Ran away when the gnolls attacked Martine and the Vani. Owns a ring of teleportation. Slain by Vreesar [1,11,12,13,16]
Weregund, the village’s only trader, haggles over everything especially with Harpers [1]
Silverhand, male, senior Harper [Epilogue]

Great Glacier
A volcano of ice (it happens sometimes) this one is caused by a rift to the para elemental plane of ice [1]
Geysers of ice and rift that feeds it are four days travel (by foot) into the Great Glacier north of Samek [3]
Icy-White an ice mephit, works for Vreesar. Slain by Martine [4]
Vreesar, made of ice, insectoid, tall, muscular. Came through the rift exploring, brought Icy-White with it. “One of the great Elementals” (how Vreesar describes itself). Its brothers were waiting to come through (until Martine closed the rift). Small rasping mouth makes clicking sounds. Long arms end in claws. Vreesar declares itself the Prince of Ice. Vreesar can summon a blizzard and shoot exploding sphere’s of ice. Immune to magic [4,6,14,15,16]

Other Lore
Yurpide of Impiltur (a sage or wizard or both???) theorizes that rainbows and lightning storms are caused by rifts to a para or quasi elemental plane [1]
Villages in Damara, where people speak in whispers about her Vaasan looks [1]
Hyena in the lands south of the Sea of Fallen Stars [6]
Chessentian lacework [11]
Chessentian wine merchant [16]

Martine Lore
Martine, small black haired women, sponsored into the Harpers by Jazrac, not a full Harper yet (acts as a messenger. Buckskin trousers, half cape. Huntress, ranger. [1]
Only been in Shadowdale a few weeks (staying at the Old Skull Inn). Spent the last 4 months in the wilderness playing messenger [1]
Given a mission by Jazrac to go to the Great Glacier and seal the rift to the para elemental plane of ice to stop things coming through. Jazrac has been preparing the magical seals for her [1]
Astriphie the hippogriff is her mount [1]
Broken her ribs before and survived [3]
Liked Giles the prefect’s son who lived down the lane when she was a child [3]
Her father was a blacksmith [3]
Can speak gnoll, knowledge gained from years as a huntress [5]
Has brothers [6]
Owns a magical longsword won from a captain of the Pirate Isles (a pirate lord). Winning the sword cost Martine an ugly scar across her back. Martine named the sword Sea Dog. Hakk took the sword from her [6,12]
Many years ago Martine was in Westgate when a mob hung a pair of suspected thieves
Familiar with the forests of Sembia and the Dalelands (oak and elm)
Spent years along the coasts of the Inner Sea (Sea of Fallen Stars) [11]
Owns a tunic of chain mail, purchased from a merchant who said it was crafted by elves in the light of a full moon [12]
Journeys to Mulmaster [Epilogue]

Vilheim Lore
Vilheim, son of Balt (Baltson), 40-50 years old, big man, warrior and wood cutter living in the forest in the valley where Samek lies. Owns a well made sword and bow. Originally from Chessenta, moved to the valley 3 years ago [1]
Used to be a paladin of Torm, but quit after experiencing freedom during the Time of Troubles [3]
Owns a mismatched suit of leather, chain, and plate, old and well made, fitted to him [12]
Owns a bow and some magical arrows [17]
Has been in large battles before [17]
Slain by Vreesar [19]


Samek Lore
A village of gnomes, the last outpost before the wilds of the Great Glacier [1]
Located in a mountain valley, no more than a few miles across on the valley floor [1]
Vilheim, son of Balt (Baltson), 40-50 years old, big man, warrior and wood cutter living in the forest in the valley where Samek lies. Owns a well made sword and bow. Originally from Chessenta, moved to the valley 3 years ago [1]
The gnomes of Samek call themselves the Vani, they do not like strangers (they hide from them) [1]
Samek warren carved into a mound in the valley, the doors cleverly disguised [2]
Tikannen, doorkeeper of the gnome warren. Stocky, long white beard, rheumy red eyes, bulbous nose, ancient face. Follows the old ways, very polite and formal [2]
The Vani ruled by a council of elders. Gnome women raise children and rule the home. Men hunt, farm and deal with outsiders [2]
Jouka Tunkelo, close cropped black curly hair and full beard, and Turi Tunkelo, long black hair and beard both braided. Members of the council. Both wear blue robes girded with red and green sashes. Jouka and Turi are both young, but Jouka is the oldest of the two. Turi is shy. Jouka has killed two badgers and owns a badger killing suit. Turi is a magi, mostly illusions. Jouka is one of the few true warriors of the Vani his word carries great weight on the council. Turi slain by gnolls [2,9,12,13,14]
Sumalo, head of the council. Wears a tunic festooned with iron charms. Thick silver hair and birchbark cap. Priest of Gaerdal Ironhand (god of the Vani????) [2]
Peeled birch rod, the Speakers Rod, a symbol of Gaerdal Ironhand the Great Crafter [2]
Winter, known as the Season of the Hearth to the Vani, a time of rest. Considered bad luck to begin a journey during the Season of the Hearth [2]
The gnoll live in a valley north of Samek on the Great Glacier [3]
Ojakangas, burly, thick browed gnome, black hair, carpenter [9,18]
Any excuse to have a celebration, including the return of a search party [9]
The Vani brew a tasty hard cider [9]
Hardrangers, fiddles with extra strings that sound like bagpipes [9]
Some of the vani are 400 years old [9]
Reko, musician, fiddler, 347 years old [9]
Elder Hudni (on the council????), farmer, lives outside the warren, slain by Vreesar and his gnolls [9,11]
Buri, son of Hudni, slain by gnolls [10,12]
Heikko, husband and his stout wife Kara. Heikko is a golden haired warrior, cousins of Buri. Heikko slain by gnolls [10,12]
The Vani speak an ancient dialect of common (auld common ????) [10]
The Vani have never heard of the Harpers (how long since they left the realms of humans????) [10]
The Laws of the Vani were created by the last High King (High King of where????) [10]
The deeper sections (colder) of the warren are home to the animal pens, root cellars, and storerooms.
East Gate, South Gate [11,12]
Badgers and wolverines sometimes intrude into the warren. The Vani kill the badgers with a suit of black iron plate covered in nails, spikes, blades, and topped with a skull shaped helm with thin slits at the mouth, nose, and eyes. Badger killing is an ancient Vani tradition. Badger and wolverine are cornered in a room then a young warrior is sent in with the badger armour and a knife to kill it, this marks a true warrior.
Jouka commands the militia. Militia consists of able male gnomes (about 40 in number, most are farmers) armed with spears, short swords, the odd helmet and scrap of armour [12]
Council Chamber at the centre of the warren [10]
Cliffside entrance, an escape route, leads to a ledge on a bluff overlooking the river [14]
Luski, gnome, posted as scout by the council. Froze to death in Vreesar’s blizzard [15]
Yannis, gnome youth [16]


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Gary Dallison
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United Kingdom
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Posted - 07 May 2021 :  19:32:15  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Soldiers of Ice was a slow burner, a bit dull at the start. But it livened up at the end. I honestly expected Martine to die at the end because it seems that the main hero dies in these Harper novels.

Not much lore outside of two small valleys in the great glacier, a bit of an insight into gnolls which i'd always thought of as typical bad guys.

One thing i did find curious is a stray mention from the gnomes of Samek. Its clear they have been hidden away in their valley for many centuries, 3 at least, but one of them said "by the laws of the High King" which got my attention as a potential clue to their origin.

There is only one High King i know of in the realms and that is in the Moonshae Isles from over a thousand years ago. Could there be a connection, unlikely but its one possibility

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TheIriaeban
Senior Scribe

USA
726 Posts

Posted - 08 May 2021 :  03:01:28  Show Profile Send TheIriaeban a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Gary, who wrote that because some of that doesn't quite connect with other lore.

Gaerdal Ironhand is the god of vigilance, combat, and martial defense. Nothing to do with crafting.

Killing badgers and wolverines could make Segojan Earthcaller upset. Considering he is the god of rock gnomes, you would think they would know that.

The gnome kingdom of Songfarla was founded in -3149 in the Sunrise Mountains by escaped gnome slaves from Netheril. Samek could be a forgotten outpost of that kingdom. They would have to have been there prior to -469 because that is when the kingdom had almost dwindled to nothing.

Auld Common? Wouldn't that just be Thorass?

"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."

My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
6191 Posts

Posted - 08 May 2021 :  05:33:58  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison


Gnoll Language
Kaamak – means dowry, wife’s payment to mate [6]
Rrachk-kiah – means whatever we see we own [6]
Paavak – means a place for evil spirits (haunted [14]

Gnome Language
tukkavaaskivo – means “mean little one” refers to badgers or wolverine [12]
Mustikka – means blueberry bushes or planting area [16]




"rrachk-kiah" might be better defined as the gnoll version of "manifest destiny".

So do we think:

"tukka" mean, cruel
"va": one
"askivo": small creature

I'm also thinking "mustikka" means 'thicket, undergrowth'.

Thoughts?

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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cuiilv
Acolyte

Sweden
43 Posts

Posted - 08 May 2021 :  11:45:40  Show Profile  Visit cuiilv's Homepage Send cuiilv a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison


Gnoll Language
Kaamak – means dowry, wife’s payment to mate [6]
Rrachk-kiah – means whatever we see we own [6]
Paavak – means a place for evil spirits (haunted [14]

Gnome Language
tukkavaaskivo – means “mean little one” refers to badgers or wolverine [12]
Mustikka – means blueberry bushes or planting area [16]




"rrachk-kiah" might be better defined as the gnoll version of "manifest destiny".

So do we think:

"tukka" mean, cruel
"va": one
"askivo": small creature

I'm also thinking "mustikka" means 'thicket, undergrowth'.

Thoughts?

-- George Krashos



Mustikka is Finnish for blueberry, and the rest of the Vani names and words look either Finnish or clearly based on it. I guess you could get away with that nearly 30 years ago for a mostly American audience, but I would consider that lazy creativity these days and just ignore that "gnomish" language.
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Gary Dallison
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Posted - 08 May 2021 :  14:41:15  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Assuming this gnome settlement was separated from the rest of gnome culture a long time ago, it is quite possible it holds to ancient ideas no longer present elsewhere. Gaerdal may have been known as the great crafter thousands of years ago, but is now much more warlike.

alternatively the centuries of isolation has led to an unusual evolution in their religious practices, whereby the other deities have been forgotten and only gaerdal remains and has assumed the role of all the other deities.


David Cook I believe was the author

As for auld common and Thorass, they mean the same thing to me I just couldnt remember thorass at the time. The book says an ancient dialect of common which I interpreted as meaning auld common.

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Gary Dallison
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Posted - 08 May 2021 :  14:58:47  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Not everyone can be a language professor like Tolkien and so is forced to steal words or inspiration from existing languages.

It's fine to steal the word and then alter its meaning. Mustikka works well as thicket but it struck me that there probably isn't a lot of food around for such a colony of gnomes in a glacial valley, so I figured the blueberries were likely carefully cultivated rather than left to grow wild. Hedge might work better but they pretty much mean the same.


It seems to me that the gnoll and gnome language both have a lot of k sounds and double aa and Ava sounds. I expected gnolls to have a more animal language consisting of smells and barks or yaps. Could it be that in the 30 years the gnolls have lived in the valley (and they likely left a while back after depleting the valley and then returned 30 years ago when it recovered in a repeating pattern over the centuries) they have adopted the gnomish language and altered it to suit their facial structure.

Assuming the gnoll and gnome languages are related slightly we could interpret aavak as place and aamak as person. K as a prefix determines ownership and P as a prefix denotes none ownership. So Kaamak roughly translates as My Person and Paavak is Not My Place.

Vaas could then be a singular thing or creature or item which serves as the number one.

Tikka and tukka are related, tikka could be thorny or tree like plant with branches and so tukka would work as meaning sharp tooth or claw basically translating to vicious.

And then Kivo meaning small animal.

I guess my attempt at translation is much the same as yours just with an extra assumption on the relationship between gnolls and gnomes.

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TheIriaeban
Senior Scribe

USA
726 Posts

Posted - 08 May 2021 :  16:37:52  Show Profile Send TheIriaeban a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Tom Costa had this to say about non-human languanges in Dragon Annual 4 (page 29):

"Oddly, the languages of most non-human races differ only in their dialect despite their regional location and distance from one another. There is, as yet, no explanation for this phenomenon. Some sages believe that this homogeny among non-human languages is an expression of the divine might of the nonhuman gods. Others scoff at this theory."

Now, it could be that those words are only part of the local dialect of Gnim and not the language in general. It is also possible, given the proximity of the gnomes and the gnolls, that they have developed a pidgin of the two languages to create a sort of "local common".

"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."

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ElfBane
Learned Scribe

USA
196 Posts

Posted - 09 May 2021 :  14:12:23  Show Profile Send ElfBane a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Don't know if any of you folks are in the SCA (Society for Creative Anachronism, found here; https://www.sca.org/ ), but they have very strict rules on Persona names. The name has to be "in-period" and have at least 2 valid documentations of that names' use... "in-period". This has created a cadre of 'language nazis' that police name documentation. I don't think we should go down that road with the policing of D&D language rules. If it's reasonably "D&D sounding", then go with it (looking at YOU, RA Salvatore). If you try to govern it with RW linguistics rules, it will turn into a mire.

That'll be 2cents please.
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Gary Dallison
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Posted - 09 May 2021 :  14:24:14  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
If fully intend to de-RAS a lot of names while I write up regions. People named after beef stew will not be allowed in my realms

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Gary Dallison
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Posted - 10 May 2021 :  08:06:11  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Elfsong next. 7 pages in and already a full sheet of a4 notes. Should be a good one in terms of lore.

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maransreth
Learned Scribe

Australia
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Posted - 11 May 2021 :  07:10:30  Show Profile Send maransreth a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison

Elfsong next. 7 pages in and already a full sheet of a4 notes. Should be a good one in terms of lore.



Oh yes, lots of lore to be mined in Elfsong, I read it about 2-3 months back. I am changing the order of what books I read. Will be interesting to see your synopsis after you have finished it.

Btw, I know you are typing up the lore, do you have the info in Word docs or anything system?

Wondering if you are linking any lore together? e.g. Soldiers of Ice had a couple of things about Shadowdale. There are other books that have featured Shadowdale lore. Are you adding the Soldiers of Ice lore to an existing Shadowdale section as well?

Curious
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Gary Dallison
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Posted - 11 May 2021 :  07:15:26  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Everything I have is in word documents so if you want a copy then drop me a pm with your email.

Eventually, once I've finished i intend to link as much as i can and expand the various regions i focus on using novel and sourcebook lore.

At the moment the only things I've looked at are Ebenfar (the book of night and the book of the shadow seem to be the same thing), and some stray pieces here and there.

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Gary Dallison
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Posted - 13 May 2021 :  17:16:52  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Loving Elfsong so far. 37 pages in and more lore than some novels have in their entirety. It's not mentioned just for the sake of it, nor is it immediately obvious at times.

A few things I've noted that I'm wondering if it will get revealed. Iriador seems to be related to nobility and I think its elven nobility. She has a haughty manner common with nobility, she uses the last of her families wealth on a youth potion. Could she be the last of an elven house.

She also seems to know a lot about khelben and have a personal grudge against him. It also seems that iriador is a nickname and not her real name.

Morninglark seems to be very important as an item. I wonder how it ended up in that village and did grimnosh find it by accident or was he searching for it as well as elaith.

Interesting bit was that lady Lucia thine tried to become Lady Arunsun, when and where and how spring to mind. I wonder how much khelben knows about Lucia at this time because it is said that no one knows about her Knights of the Shield affiliation but I suspect that does not include Khelben

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Gary Dallison
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Posted - 16 May 2021 :  16:30:16  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Elfsong seems to imply that (perhaps only localised to the North). Bardcraft was once of great importance, linked to the Heralds while they were part of the Harpers, for Bardcraft was about preserving history and tradition and bards were counsellors to kings and queens.

It also mentions a most honoured title "ubarcr'" which is now given to any idiot in a tavern that can play but presumably was a singular title given to best bard in the land or perhaps the whole north.


This reminds me an awful lot of the Moonshae Isles, with their Great Bards.

In fact many of the renowned schools of the north have a clear link to the Moonshaes with their names MacFuirmidh being clearly of moonshae origin and i recall it originated in the Moonshaes before being destroyed and presumably refounded in the Sword Coast / SAvage Frontier.

There should be a link between the Moonshaes (which are very music and bard centred) and the Harpers made somewhere. I expect it was only around during the middle incarnation of the Harpers.

Elfsong also implies that this barding tradition declined after the Harpstar Wars when the Heralds split. The Heralds are preservers of tradition and bardcraft was also about tradition and preservation, the two goals are very much akin. After the split the Harpers allowed bardcraft to die out (they still have bards but they do not follow tradition, they just fight, spy, and play music - not true bards in the old style), perhaps in a misguided act of vengeance against the Heralds.



Anyway, brief idea at the moment is bardcraft spreads from the Moonshae Isles when the college their is burned down by the northmen of GNarhelm. It spreads among the northlands, i'm guessing is quite important in the early days of Athalantar and Waterdeep and Silverymoon, perhaps even the Fallen Kingdoms.

Then the Harpstar Wars happen and the Heralds split and the ancient bardic tradition almost dies out.

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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Posted - 16 May 2021 :  16:53:23  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison

Elfsong also implies that this barding tradition declined after the Harpstar Wars when the Heralds split. The Heralds are preservers of tradition and bardcraft was also about tradition and preservation, the two goals are very much akin. After the split the Harpers allowed bardcraft to die out (they still have bards but they do not follow tradition, they just fight, spy, and play music - not true bards in the old style), perhaps in a misguided act of vengeance against the Heralds.


I would say it was more that the Heralds were keeping the traditions of bardcraft alive, and that the Heralds became more insular after the Harpstar Wars. Without the Heralds pushing the bardic traditions, a lot of newer bards were just jumping into the bardic gig without worrying about the traditional training -- and some of them may not have known of the traditions and thought it was all about the music and storytelling.

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Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 16 May 2021 16:54:00
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Gary Dallison
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Posted - 16 May 2021 :  18:02:48  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Possibly, but in the first chapters it states bards are the preservers of tradition, true bards keeping songs identical across the centuries (sounds exactly like what finder wyvernspur was doing). Bards make songs about events so it's a simple connection to make between bards and historical preservation

Then in a later chapter it says the Heralds preserved tradition and history. When the Heralds declined so did the boarding colleges. Ergo the Heralds were the true bards of the Harpers, and while the Harpers of the modern age have bards they are merely fighters and spies who can sing or play.

Either would work but Elfsong makes clear the connection, just separated by 5 or 6 chapters.

Danilo even reinforces this connection by saying his first teacher was of the old macfuirmidh tradition and he demanded the old songs be played using the original instruments of composition.

True bards preserved the past and they did it through song, which makes sense because centuries ago the majority of the north was illuskan, and they are not known for literary works. So in a parallel to ancient earth history was preserved by means other than history books (songs, stories, paintings, tapestries, etc)

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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Posted - 16 May 2021 :  18:16:29  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
But the Heralds didn't decline. They separated from the Harpers and went their separate ways -- and spread out further and gained more influence in the process.

Since bards have long been associated with the Harpers, and since the Heralds no longer being part of the Harpers marks the decline of bardic tradition, the obvious conclusion is that the Heralds were the ones pushing that tradition.

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