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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
6191 Posts

Posted - 08 Apr 2021 :  13:20:28  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I criticise my kids for watching YouTube videos of people playing games that they can play themselves. I tried to watch Critical Roll once. Lasted 2 minutes. I then went to watch some paint dry. Did I mention I found it ever so boring ...?

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Wendolyn
Seeker

56 Posts

Posted - 08 Apr 2021 :  15:36:52  Show Profile Send Wendolyn a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by see

quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Still doesn't tell us much. If they'd cut down to a skeleton crew and are regrowing it. Again, not pushing for one way or another, its just I hear things like "the game is more popular than ever" and I truly wonder if there's more people playing than there were in say the 90's and 2000's. That's how I judge popularity. Not monetary income.


Data direct from Hasbro/WotC was all in dollar terms. In those terms, D&D's biggest year ever was 2018, until it was 2019, until it was 2020.

As far as unit sales, there isn't an available source, but we can compare sales to those of the book industry as a whole with the USA Today archive of top-150 weekly bestsellers, and Amazon's archive of top-100 annual sellers in books. I went through and did that a few months back.

In the USA Today list, 5e products have vastly outperformed 3e, 3.5, and 4e products, on the level of Tasha's being as big a bestseller as those editions' PHBs, while the 5e PHB had more bestseller weeks than all those editions' books combined.

On the Amazon list, the only D&D products that have ever made the whole-year top 100 sellers in book lists were 5e products, with the 5e PHB doing so in 2017, 2018, 2019, and 2020. Rather few books of any kind ever manage the sales to achieve the Amazon whole-year top 100 for four years in a row, being major cultural phenomena (Harry Potter, Twilight, Hunger Games), established perennial standards ("Goodnight, Moon", "What to Expect When You're Expecting"), or classics that have made school curricula ("1984", "To Kill a Mockingbird").

Now, of course, it's hard to determine if sales are matched by actual play, but it seems unlikely that people are buying PHBs in huge numbers to not play, you know?



Thanks for digging into the data and doing this research. Confirms my intuitions that 5e was doing well, but I didn't realize it was this successful. While I don't like everything Wizards has done in recent years, on the whole I appreciate that they've brought so many new people into the hobby. A larger audience for our Candlekeep authors on the DMsguild!
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Wendolyn
Seeker

56 Posts

Posted - 08 Apr 2021 :  15:39:48  Show Profile Send Wendolyn a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

I criticise my kids for watching YouTube videos of people playing games that they can play themselves. I tried to watch Critical Roll once. Lasted 2 minutes. I then went to watch some paint dry. Did I mention I found it ever so boring ...?

-- George Krashos



I too have never watched Critical Roll. I just really struggle to stay focused on podcasts, twitch streams, interviews etc. I much prefer reading sourcebooks, like the excellent Jergal: the Lord of the End of Everything, which had me rapt. Nevertheless, I'm glad Matt Mercer and crew are doing what they're doing and bringing so many into our wonderful hobby.
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
34915 Posts

Posted - 08 Apr 2021 :  16:01:37  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

I criticise my kids for watching YouTube videos of people playing games that they can play themselves. I tried to watch Critical Roll once. Lasted 2 minutes. I then went to watch some paint dry. Did I mention I found it ever so boring ...?

-- George Krashos



I don't know if it's because of my years on dialup or something else, but I've a weird aversion to watching videos online. I'll do the occasional music video, but aside from that, if I can't open the video in one tab and listen whilst active in another, I'm not interested.

Obviously, I consider streaming services to be a different category.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
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Gyor
Master of Realmslore

1526 Posts

Posted - 17 Apr 2021 :  15:04:54  Show Profile Send Gyor a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Fizban might be a Planeswalker in the AFR, which means he might be in FR and even might end up statted in the hypothetical Faerun World Campaign Guide book.
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
10260 Posts

Posted - 17 Apr 2021 :  15:31:15  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gyor

quote:
Originally posted by Lord Karsus

quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

Still doesn't tell us much. If they'd cut down to a skeleton crew and are regrowing it. Again, not pushing for one way or another, its just I hear things like "the game is more popular than ever" and I truly wonder if there's more people playing than there were in say the 90's and 2000's. That's how I judge popularity. Not monetary income.


-Agreed. I don't honestly believe that D&D (or tabletop role-playing games in general) is more popular now than it was in the 70s/80s/90s heyday, but I think that the perception of it (along with other nerdy things, like comic books especially) has radically changed since then and it's okay to admit that you play. Even as recent as like in the early 2000s, in my experience, saying you played D&D would get side-eye, not so much maybe something negative as much as something weird and extremely geeky. Now, apparently, not so much.



Its way more popular then it used to be,they are making alot of money to the point where WotC is now more profitable then Hasbro's other divisions,not just because of MtG either, D&D's growth rate out did MtG.

https://icv2.com/articles/news/view/47698/wotc-makes-more-money-hasbros-toy-business

Its absolutely more popular then 3e now, never mind 4e,possibly even AD&D even.



Thank you. Work has heated up recently, so I hadn't seen this response until now. THAT is interesting data. Haven't read the whole article yet, so going back to it.



Just to note later in the article, adjusting for inflation, sales may be less than they were 20 years back. Of course, that's for all lines of their products, and I'd bet Pokemon doesn't sell like it used to. This is a good article to read, and it shows more people buying things since the downturn of 4e and the initial release of 5e, but that may be people hearing "hey, its good, you should check it out again". It does provide me hope though that the hobby isn't dying (which as I've noted, I have been surprised the last few years to find more young kids interested in gaming).

The last time Hasbro reported separate numbers for sales by Wizards of the Coast was back in 2001, when WotC coffers were bulging from its sales of the Pokemon CCG, for which it had a license. Here’s another crazy number: adjusted for the inflation, WotC sales have actually gone down since then. Tearing apart Hasbro’s reporting after it acquired WotC, Wizards of the Coast sales in 2000 were likely around $725 million (with around $568 million of that amount due to Pokemon, see "Hasbro Results Cite Pokemon Decline"); that’s around $1.1 billion in 2020 dollars. But WotC has learned a lot since then, and selling its own brands is generating a big multiple of the $100 million or so in profits it was making selling someone else’s game along with its own.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas

Edited by - sleyvas on 17 Apr 2021 15:42:56
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
10260 Posts

Posted - 17 Apr 2021 :  15:51:16  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

I criticise my kids for watching YouTube videos of people playing games that they can play themselves. I tried to watch Critical Roll once. Lasted 2 minutes. I then went to watch some paint dry. Did I mention I found it ever so boring ...?

-- George Krashos



Yeah, I tried to do this once too. I couldn't stand it. Critical roll and other shows of people playing roleplaying games are not fun to me. But then again, neither is watching someone else play a shooting game. Yet young kids do it. I also don't get the fascination of young kids (and by young, I mean ten and up) with games like roblox in which they play games where you take orders and make pizzas or ice cream or whatever for people, and I hope they get the realization that if they don't do something more challenging with their brains that that may be what they're doing in a more messy way for the rest of their lives.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
34915 Posts

Posted - 17 Apr 2021 :  17:34:57  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

I criticise my kids for watching YouTube videos of people playing games that they can play themselves. I tried to watch Critical Roll once. Lasted 2 minutes. I then went to watch some paint dry. Did I mention I found it ever so boring ...?

-- George Krashos



Yeah, I tried to do this once too. I couldn't stand it. Critical roll and other shows of people playing roleplaying games are not fun to me. But then again, neither is watching someone else play a shooting game. Yet young kids do it. I also don't get the fascination of young kids (and by young, I mean ten and up) with games like roblox in which they play games where you take orders and make pizzas or ice cream or whatever for people, and I hope they get the realization that if they don't do something more challenging with their brains that that may be what they're doing in a more messy way for the rest of their lives.



My son plays Roblox, but he does some of the other games in there, like a ghost hunter one and some other stuff.

I tried to play it, myself, but I just didn't get it.

Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!
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Shadowsoul
Senior Scribe

Ireland
704 Posts

Posted - 18 Apr 2021 :  12:15:41  Show Profile Send Shadowsoul a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hello everyone long time no see.

“Fantasy is escapist, and that is its glory. If a soldier is imprisioned by the enemy, don't we consider it his duty to escape?. . .If we value the freedom of mind and soul, if we're partisans of liberty, then it's our plain duty to escape, and to take as many people with us as we can!”
#8213; J.R.R. Tolkien

*I endorse everything Dark Wizard says*.
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Azar
Learned Scribe

282 Posts

Posted - 18 Apr 2021 :  23:36:22  Show Profile Send Azar a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Wendolyn

I'm glad Matt Mercer and crew are doing what they're doing and bringing so many into our wonderful hobby.



I wish their frame of reference wasn't so skewed, but hey...

Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.
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Old Man Harpell
Senior Scribe

USA
486 Posts

Posted - 05 May 2021 :  06:03:48  Show Profile Send Old Man Harpell a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gyor

Fizban might be a Planeswalker in the AFR, which means he might be in FR and even might end up statted in the hypothetical Faerun World Campaign Guide book.


That would be interesting, not merely in seeing him pop up in Faerun, but in how they'd explain his very existence. If it's before Krynn's periods of "god-lessness" (so to speak), particularly after Takhisis buys the farm and Valthonis comes into being, WotC will have to do some impressive verbal and mythological footwork to explain it.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for Fizban spooking the folks in Skullport. I'm just wondering what the spin is going to be like.

- OMH

Edited by - Old Man Harpell on 05 May 2021 06:04:20
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore

1335 Posts

Posted - 05 May 2021 :  12:17:28  Show Profile Send LordofBones a Private Message  Reply with Quote
At this point, it's just getting dumb. Why is everything unique to other settings being dumped into the Forgotten Realms? What next, Raistlin as a Chosen of Mystra?

Edited by - LordofBones on 05 May 2021 12:18:33
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
10260 Posts

Posted - 05 May 2021 :  13:39:05  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones

At this point, it's just getting dumb. Why is everything unique to other settings being dumped into the Forgotten Realms? What next, Raistlin as a Chosen of Mystra?



Yeah, as if the realms didn't already have a demilich that could have been used instead of Acererak.... and anything someone like Vecna can do is mirrored in Larloch...

I'm not against occasional crossovers, but they really should have a really good reason. I mean, it could make absolute sense if a Krynn mage like Dalamar, who had been talking to Elminster, comes to Toril to steal some item of magic and bring it to Krynn or somesuch. I don't see him wanting to come here to stay though, as he'd suddenly find himself outclassed and outgunned.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Old Man Harpell
Senior Scribe

USA
486 Posts

Posted - 05 May 2021 :  14:10:55  Show Profile Send Old Man Harpell a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones

What next, Raistlin as a Chosen of Mystra?


I've heard of worse ideas. They've had worse ideas.

- OMH
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore

1335 Posts

Posted - 05 May 2021 :  14:17:00  Show Profile Send LordofBones a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones

At this point, it's just getting dumb. Why is everything unique to other settings being dumped into the Forgotten Realms? What next, Raistlin as a Chosen of Mystra?



Yeah, as if the realms didn't already have a demilich that could have been used instead of Acererak.... and anything someone like Vecna can do is mirrored in Larloch...



To be fair, Vecna's backstory is interesting, from the subtle implication that the magic the Ur-Flan practiced was binding (so the Serpent was actually a vestige) to his rise from slave to nightmare, including the mercy he showed unprecedently (Acererak, like Vecna, also loved his mummy and didn't take her death well).

Meanwhile, Larloch is degraded into Skeletor-level villainous monologuing and is then punted away like a cartoon villain, but at least Skeletor was entertaining and had a cool staff.
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Eldacar
Learned Scribe

297 Posts

Posted - 05 May 2021 :  15:54:45  Show Profile  Visit Eldacar's Homepage Send Eldacar a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by LordofBones

Meanwhile, Larloch is degraded into Skeletor-level villainous monologuing and is then punted away like a cartoon villain, but at least Skeletor was entertaining and had a cool staff.


I will disagree there based on a 5E Adventurer's League scenario that featured Warlock's Crypt (and which I think is the most recent appearance of Larloch since the Sundering series). It was not particularly cartoonish. One might instead describe it as Larloch murdering an entire party of too-dumb-to-live players if they were foolish enough to confront him.

The scenario is about a group of very high level adventurers breaking into Warlock's Crypt to try and disrupt one of Larloch's laboratories on behalf of another Netherese archwizard lich. The archwizard lich is terrified of getting anywhere near Larloch or he would be under Larloch's control (as Larloch is "able to instantly control any undead creature in his presence at will").

A pertinent outtake from it:

"Once the characters enter the laboratory, they have exactly ten rounds to complete their task and escape completely off the map. If they are still present or on the map at the beginning of the eleventh round, Larloch returns and you can narrate whatever soul-crushing defeat you wish. Roleplaying takes time – be sure to use your judgment on this! MAKE IT CLEAR THAT STAYING FOCUSED IS KEY."

The DM's appendix contains notes from the writer (Alan Patrick) of the adventure, some of which I've also reproduced here:

"Larloch is the boogeyman of the Forgotten Realms. He is the oldest creature in existence, predating even every one of the dragons. As he is a lich, this presents a number of mechanical issues: to resolve the majority of them, Larloch is never actually present in this adventure. If the characters are present when he returns, treat their slaughter as a montage of events. It should be visceral, shredding, and full of the biggest, brightest, most explosive and painful magic possible."

"If Elminster couldn't affect Larloch with magic, it's safe to assume that the characters can't. DRIVE THIS HOME TO THE CHARACTERS."

All through it, it's an infiltration, along the lines of the first Mission Impossible. Get in, break a laboratory for stuff, and then run far and fast, because the adventure repeatedly states that you cannot fight Larloch and expect to do anything other than die horribly (or worse). Even for a group of 17th-20th level characters (a level range for the scenario), Larloch in 5E was still a Do Not Go There.

"It always ends. That's what gives it value." ~Death of the Endless
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore

1335 Posts

Posted - 05 May 2021 :  16:33:08  Show Profile Send LordofBones a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well, yes. The problem is that in his grand novel debut, he might as well be Skeletor. This also happened to Telamont.

Even for the Chosen, Larloch should have been an advancing wall of doom. Being treated like Manshoon with a bigger gun ruined him.
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
10260 Posts

Posted - 05 May 2021 :  18:09:48  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Despite the lackluster portrayal in one novel, they could have remade him as the power behind things yet again, without necessarily having to bring in Vecna. Same with Acererak. To my view though, Acererak was the worse crime, because he had been turned into a vestige with the Tome of Magic, so having him "escape" from the "place where vestiges reside" was a non-plus. I get why they did it though. They just wanted to use the name for the module, and someone would have screamed if it didn't involve Acererak. In the end though, having Larloch be responsible for that "plot" would have made a LOT of sense, or for that matter Szass Tam or even the mage-turned-demilich, Ythazz Buvaar, who founded Thay (this one could have made a lot of sense if he had somehow rescued the atropal, Xingax, who had been serving Tam, since the adventure involve an atropal... and could have been a decent plot with this demilich trying to build power to turn against Tam). Hell, given the bending of soul energy, Shoon VII would have also worked.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
34915 Posts

Posted - 05 May 2021 :  19:35:39  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas

Despite the lackluster portrayal in one novel, they could have remade him as the power behind things yet again, without necessarily having to bring in Vecna. Same with Acererak. To my view though, Acererak was the worse crime, because he had been turned into a vestige with the Tome of Magic, so having him "escape" from the "place where vestiges reside" was a non-plus. I get why they did it though. They just wanted to use the name for the module, and someone would have screamed if it didn't involve Acererak. In the end though, having Larloch be responsible for that "plot" would have made a LOT of sense, or for that matter Szass Tam or even the mage-turned-demilich, Ythazz Buvaar, who founded Thay (this one could have made a lot of sense if he had somehow rescued the atropal, Xingax, who had been serving Tam, since the adventure involve an atropal... and could have been a decent plot with this demilich trying to build power to turn against Tam). Hell, given the bending of soul energy, Shoon VII would have also worked.



I had my own spur of the moment thought on what they could have done with the Tomb of Annihilation, rather than just move it between worlds:

quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert

Maybe the Ba'etith had a stronghold in Chult. Some of the early work that went into the Nether Scrolls was done in this area. In fact, this work could be why this is one of the few areas in the Realms to have dinosaurs -- perhaps some proof-of-concept experimentation was bringing back/recreating various species of dinosaurs.

And then one or more of the Ba'etith went rogue, because of something they found... Something ancient and evil that predated even the sarrukh. The remainder of the Chultan Ba'etith destroyed the rogues, sealed away whatever the object (or entity) of evil was, and then turned their old stronghold into a deathtrap to keep it all safely contained. Then they headed back north, joined with the rest of the Ba'etith, and made the Nether Scrolls.

Meanwhile, the ancient evil doohickey proved to be only imperfectly sealed off. It raised one of the fallen rogue Ba'etith, one Ash'r'rahkk, and made him a unique form of lich. This ancient evil later corrupted one of Ubtao's nature spirits, turning it into the shadow giant Eshowdow.

The first non-Ba'etith who ever penetrated this hidden stronghold was a powerful human wizard, whose original name has been lost to the sands of time... Encountering the sarrukh lich Ash'r'rahkk and the evil force backing it, this wizard realized too late that his very mind was being overwhelmed by what he had found. He fled, eventually journeying to another sphere entirely, in a vain attempt to hold onto his own personality. In the end, though, his strength was not enough, and he became another extension of that ancient evil doohickey.

Forgetting his own name, he chose a new one from his fragmentary and shattered memories: Acererak. He sealed himself away in his own cunningly-designed deathtrap, intending to contain the evil that had consumed him.

This did weaken the ancient doohickey, though, because now its own essence was sundered. It's still powerful, and still rather evil, but it is no longer the threat it once was... And it's not cool with that.

In the millennia since then, the Ba'etith stronghold has remained forgotten and sealed away... Until the chaos of the Spellplague and the Sundering brought one of the entrances back into the sunlight....

As for that ancient evil doohickey... I have previously suggested that there was some horrible evil that all the gods had to get together to defeat, and even their combined might could only shatter this evil. I suggested that it could have been one of the shards of this evil that made Cyric get so crazy, and another could be imprisoned under and contained by the Wall of the Faithless. Maybe that's what the Chultan Ba'etith found.

Or maybe a simpler explanation could be something like a spawn of Dendar... Or perhaps at some point, Dendar herself was in the Realms. Someone, perhaps Ubtao battled and wounded her, driving her from the Prime and into the Fugue Plane. And when she was wounded, some of her blood splashed on and corrupted some native creature, granting it power beyond that of mortals, but still shy of the true Elder Evils of the Realms.

This spins the whole thing into something new, built on existing Realmslore, but still keeping the ridiculous connection to the Tomb of Horrors. With the similar names and nature of the dungeons, it'd not be unlikely for someone who knew of the Tomb of Horrors to hear about this place and assume they were one in the same.



Candlekeep Forums Moderator

Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com
-- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct

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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!

Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 05 May 2021 19:39:49
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader

USA
2602 Posts

Posted - 05 May 2021 :  23:45:01  Show Profile Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

I criticise my kids for watching YouTube videos of people playing games that they can play themselves. I tried to watch Critical Roll once. Lasted 2 minutes. I then went to watch some paint dry. Did I mention I found it ever so boring ...?

-- George Krashos



I feel like that can be said about a lot of things; why do people watch sports? I think watching people play can be inspiration and/or fun for a lot of people, and not everyone has opportunities to play D&D. Of course, nothing beats the immersive experience of being able to play yourself, but I think, especially in the age of the Internet, people are drawn to watching others stream gaming content, whether that's TTRPG, video games, or something else.

Sweet water and light laughter
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
10260 Posts

Posted - 05 May 2021 :  23:54:47  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout

quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos

I criticise my kids for watching YouTube videos of people playing games that they can play themselves. I tried to watch Critical Roll once. Lasted 2 minutes. I then went to watch some paint dry. Did I mention I found it ever so boring ...?

-- George Krashos



I feel like that can be said about a lot of things; why do people watch sports? I think watching people play can be inspiration and/or fun for a lot of people, and not everyone has opportunities to play D&D. Of course, nothing beats the immersive experience of being able to play yourself, but I think, especially in the age of the Internet, people are drawn to watching others stream gaming content, whether that's TTRPG, video games, or something else.



I won't say for all, but regarding sports, for many its because they enjoyed it and CAN'T do it any longer. Older men can't play football any longer, but they enjoyed playing as kids. Generally those who didn't play as kids don't watch football as adults. For many women, games like football also remind them of their high school years when they were into cheerleading. I know this doesn't cover all of those who watch, but I'd guess it covers 85% or more of those who do it.

I guess that's why I'm confused by the kids who want to stream watching someone else play a video game. I could get doing it a little bit, as in its a game you couldn't afford or some such, or a game you're thinking about buying. I just don't get the fascination with just watching it as entertainment for hours.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas

Edited by - sleyvas on 05 May 2021 23:57:36
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader

USA
2602 Posts

Posted - 06 May 2021 :  01:07:52  Show Profile Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Or at least with kids, they may do both: watch sports and play them. Maybe they play basketball but watch football, for example. My step nephews are very in to sports, but they don't play all of them. Maybe the same is true for those who like to watch others play video games.

Sweet water and light laughter
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LordofBones
Master of Realmslore

1335 Posts

Posted - 06 May 2021 :  03:12:54  Show Profile Send LordofBones a Private Message  Reply with Quote
A lot of this is a combination of WotC turning Faerun into a melting pot of everything from other settings and banking heavily on nostalgia. At this point, I wouldn't be surprised to see Rajaat reduced to ruling some pile of huts in the Anauroch. Instead of inventing new lore, they're trying to twist and turn old lore, which makes it nonsensical; Acererak is dead and gone, let the poor bugger rest; Minsc's story was finished over 20 years ago; the yugoloths were done dirty AGAIN; and someone at WotC really has it in for hyenas.

Hell, why not tap on things like the creator of the horrid wilting spell, who has never been described? Greyhawk fanon has Abi-Dalzim as the Father of Droughts, a balkunish wizard in the service of Incabulos; why not take this never-canonically-described necromancer and make him a Forgotten Realms native? You then have new lore that's tied to old lore without detracting from it.

Edited by - LordofBones on 06 May 2021 03:14:07
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CorellonsDevout
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USA
2602 Posts

Posted - 06 May 2021 :  03:36:27  Show Profile Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
And, ironically, they are ignoring a lot of old established lore that is actually part of the setting. They may be trying to revamp some things, but they are also disregarding a lot, or changing things with every release.

Sweet water and light laughter
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Eldacar
Learned Scribe

297 Posts

Posted - 21 May 2021 :  01:24:55  Show Profile  Visit Eldacar's Homepage Send Eldacar a Private Message  Reply with Quote
As a minor(?) update on this Magic: The Gathering crossover business, if it wasn’t already mentioned, the first few cards were revealed.

Among other things, Lolth is a Planeswalker.

[url=“https://mtgrocks.com/first-planeswalker-from-dungeons-dragons-adventures-in-the-forgotten-realms-more-cards-revealed/”]Link to the News Article[/url]

"It always ends. That's what gives it value." ~Death of the Endless
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