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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
 Posted - 25 Aug 2017 : 05:03:30
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Okay, here is something 'new' from the FRIA maps - the ones I have been staring INTENTLY at for years, and have somehow NEVER noticed this place. Its right at the source of that small tributary of the River Chionthar just south of Easting.
Normally when I am looki ng for stuff I go to the smaller maps, clicking past the larger one. However, one oddity about these damn FRIA maps is that stuff that appears at one 'level' of maps isn't always on the other levels, and this is on the larger regional map, rather than any of the smaller ones... which is just damn weird (although not so weird when you consider they never really made a smaller, insert-map for the Dragon Coast, etc)
All that being said, does anyone know anything about this place? too bad erc isn't around _ I am sure its in his notes 9since he placed all these obscure places on the FRIA maps).
The odd thing is, its close enough to Maerentede that the keep involved in that might be the same one from this, but that article says Maerantede was rebuilt out of Luhklyn Keep (is that another name anyone recognizes? Some old nobility name from somewhere?)
And there hasn't been a single thread that mentioned this place in all these years, which is really weird. How can I have been the first to notice it? 
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"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2017 : 12:59:56
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quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
A quick google suggests it might be in Code of the Harpers. I will check when i get home
It is there, though the info isn't all that copious... It's the office of the Herald Red Dragon, and page 79 of the book has these bits of info:
quote:
Red Dragon has traditionally been the office of young Heralds with new ideas and plans for the future. This has led to an important diplomatic role in arranged marriages amongst the nobility. Red Dragon also has the ceremonial duty of escorting supplicants in rituals of attaining or receiving a title, position, or honor.
The current holder of this office is Bellym Glarsh (NG hm F9), who dwells in Dragonrise Keep, a fortified compound south of Easting, near the headwaters of the stream that becomes the southern feeder of the River Chionthar.
That was the only hit for "Dragonrise" on a search of the pdf. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2017 : 18:35:27
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NICE - thanks guys!  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2017 : 19:13:34
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
NICE - thanks guys!
Dazz did the hard part. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 25 Aug 2017 : 21:26:04
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quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
I just used my powers of googlefu.
Its interesting though that the Heralds have an entire keep.
I'm wondering if some would be king once purchased the legitimacy of his claim by granting a castle to the Heralds.
As I recall, each of the Heralds has a stronghold.
And I would say no, to your ponderings, because the Heralds value their neutrality to the point of splitting off from the Harpers. Someone buying a title with a castle would greatly undermine the neutrality of the Heralds. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2017 : 00:09:13
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quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
Holding a castle in the western heartlands isnt very neutral either.
What is non-neutral about having a protected home in a wilderness area?
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
In cormyr they are admin in each settlement,
Only for heraldic functions. They do not hold Cormyrian titles or ranks and are not part of any Cormyrian hierarchy.
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
in dragonrise they have land which means they have power.
Not if no one lives in the area. Even if someone does live in the area, simply having a plot of land does not automatically grant authority over anyone else.
quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
Im not thinking a title was given, just a base for them to operate from and train in the heartlands. In return his line gets favoured over a rival or brother or cousin for example.
And that's buying favor and thus destroying the neutrality of the Heralds -- something that not only gets a Herald cast out, it results in the removal of that entire office. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 26 Aug 2017 : 17:58:56
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They also have one over near Daggerford (VERY close in fact) - Black Helm Tower.
Plus, their Main Base (Herald's Hall) is directly south of Dragonrise Keep, in the Troll Mountains (and/or Qadim hills, which are the Foothils of the same chain). It would almost appear as if Dragonrise sits where it does as a 'first line of defense' (or just 'lookout') from the most likely direction an attack on the Heralds would come from.
EDIT:
And given the information you guys provided, now I find it even weirder that Maerentede and Dragonrise were so near each other. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 26 Aug 2017 18:01:17 |
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cpthero2
Great Reader
USA
2285 Posts |
Posted - 02 Mar 2020 : 22:32:32
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Great Reader Dallison,
I agree with Master Rupert here: what is non-neutral about having a castle in the Western Heartlands? Is it something legal, or is it merely that they power is had, and power disallows neutrality?
Best regards,
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison
Holding a castle in the western heartlands isnt very neutral either. In cormyr they are admin in each settlement, in dragonrise they have land which means they have power.
Im not thinking a title was given, just a base for them to operate from and train in the heartlands. In return his line gets favoured over a rival or brother or cousin for example.
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Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring |
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wildeman
Seeker
USA
75 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2020 : 20:08:41
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Hi,
I'm wondering if anyone has the map that Markus refers to that has Dragonrise Keep marked on it?
I've searched and searched and can't seem to find it. I know from Code of the Harpers on page 79 the approximate location that is specified, but I would love to actually have a copy of the map.
Anyway. If anyone can be of assistance I would greatly appreciate it. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4685 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2020 : 21:12:15
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FRIA is a program from some years ago.
Forgotten Realms Interactive Atlas
https://secure.profantasy.com/fratlas/fratlashome.htm
Unless a sample map provided you would need the program and patches to run it on current day computers. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2020 : 22:49:50
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
FRIA is a program from some years ago.
Forgotten Realms Interactive Atlas
https://secure.profantasy.com/fratlas/fratlashome.htm
Unless a sample map provided you would need the program and patches to run it on current day computers.
When that software came out, Windows 98 was still a current OS -- so some folks have had issues installing the FRIA on later versions of Windows.
I've never had an issue with it, myself, and I've installed it on XP, 7, and 10. One minor caveat: though I have the disc (I got it from the long-forgotten TSR Mail Order Hobby Shop), I've not actually touched the physical CD in a long time. For reasons I don't recall, I copied the contents of the CD to my hard drive, and every installation since then has been from a hard drive. |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7968 Posts |
Posted - 13 Nov 2020 : 23:22:26
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My Win9x-era disc-to-HDD rip of FRIA didn't "just work" quite as easily.
Win10 contains a Win7 compatibility mode, which contains a WinXP compatibility mode, which contains a Win9x compatibility mode. Which is made just a little bit worse in WINE for us linux folks. Too many emulation layers, too many compatibility tradeoff tweaks.
DOSBox emulation proved far easier and cleaner. And it lets you apply all the FRIA update patches:
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/ex20020218a
But at some point I just extracted all the map data into image files. The "CC2 Pro" map engine is just too antiquated and clunky to be useful anymore, it was necessary (and nifty) back in the day of gutless computers but it constrains and slows everything down on modern machinery. And it turns out that the internet now provides an endless supply of maps with far better quality and detail. |
[/Ayrik] |
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PattPlays
Senior Scribe
469 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2020 : 06:07:52
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| Oh man, if anyone can emulate that High Forest map here https://secure.profantasy.com/fratlas/highforest.jpg in this software for any hidden goodies (or a better resolution shot of that Scale Legend in the bottom left) I would be highly thankful. This is the best view of the Shining Falls I've had in over a dozen High Forest maps! |
:The world's greatest OOTA fan/critic: :"Powder kegs within powder kegs!": :Meta-Dimensional Cheese: :Why is the Wand of Orcus just back?: :We still don't know the nature of Souls and the Positive Energy Plane: :PC on profile, Aldritch Elpyptrat Maxinfield: :Helljumpers, Bungie.net: :Rock Hard Gladiator, RIP Fluidanim, Long Live Pluto: :IRC lives:
https://thisisstorytelling.wordpress.com
T_P_T |
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cpthero2
Great Reader
USA
2285 Posts |
Posted - 14 Nov 2020 : 17:36:55
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Learned Scribe PattPlays,
I just sent you a message about getting a screenshot of that to you. Though, it is in 5 mile increments when I pulled up my FRIA and looked at the scale. It goes to 20 miles on that scale as well.
Best regards,
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Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6643 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2020 : 00:51:31
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quote:
Originally posted by PattPlays
Oh man, if anyone can emulate that High Forest map here https://secure.profantasy.com/fratlas/highforest.jpg in this software for any hidden goodies (or a better resolution shot of that Scale Legend in the bottom left) I would be highly thankful. This is the best view of the Shining Falls I've had in over a dozen High Forest maps!
While it has old school resonance the old FR Atlas software maps are not to my taste. There are far better, more accurate and detailed maps of the High Forest, both published and unpublished.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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cpthero2
Great Reader
USA
2285 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2020 : 00:59:45
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Master Krashos,
quote:
While it has old school resonance the old FR Atlas software maps are not to my taste. There are far better, more accurate and detailed maps of the High Forest, both published and unpublished.
I can't disagree on quality. Though, for one source to go to get general (and sometimes specific) information, with distance measurements, and cool maps that are highlighted, it's pretty cool. The interactive sub-map links are pretty awesome too. To be clear, I agree that quality is certainly, well... decades behind, but the utility is pretty great.
Master Markustay's maps are, as of to date, the absolute best!
Best regards,
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Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2020 : 03:30:16
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
quote:
Originally posted by PattPlays
Oh man, if anyone can emulate that High Forest map here https://secure.profantasy.com/fratlas/highforest.jpg in this software for any hidden goodies (or a better resolution shot of that Scale Legend in the bottom left) I would be highly thankful. This is the best view of the Shining Falls I've had in over a dozen High Forest maps!
While it has old school resonance the old FR Atlas software maps are not to my taste. There are far better, more accurate and detailed maps of the High Forest, both published and unpublished.
-- George Krashos
And far more recent ones, as well. I still think the Atlas was ahead of its time, but it's been 21 years since it was released.
(Ye gods, that makes me feel old!) |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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cpthero2
Great Reader
USA
2285 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2020 : 04:24:53
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Master Rupert,
quote:
And far more recent ones, as well. I still think the Atlas was ahead of its time, but it's been 21 years since it was released. (Ye gods, that makes me feel old!)
I have to agree with you regarding the Atlas being ahead of its time. As I was commenting to Master Krashos, the quality is of course, is clearly a couple of decades behind, but it is a very valuable tool. I was using it today for my campaign in fact! :)
I am sadly certain that another Atlas will never be released again by WotC (or any future IP holder of that product line). Though, I would happily be first in line to eat crow if that ever changes!
Best regards,
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Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring |
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PattPlays
Senior Scribe
469 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2020 : 20:34:50
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I've been using a fistful of super-res maps that I've gathered from here, for sure. But if you go down far enough it just starts looking like brushstrokes and it gets less usable to campaigning in that specific region. I ended up setting my campaign in, accidentally and semi-randomly, a foothill of the thunder peaks east of a cluster of forest which stands east of the river delimbyr with the high forest on the other side. Never before have I been able to have a map with individual hills in the area to say "This is the location of Hollow Hill! .. or maybe this one.."
Trust me, I am making heavy use of the planet-scale and supercontinent-scale zoomable maps in other ways. I have a certain huge legendary fiendish ooze schmoozing his way to- well sidetracking aside, I am interested in finding more out about all the structures discussed in this thread. I may have my party headed to Candlekeep and there is so much fantastic sight-seeing on the way there. Especially if it means discovering more harper waystations.. |
:The world's greatest OOTA fan/critic: :"Powder kegs within powder kegs!": :Meta-Dimensional Cheese: :Why is the Wand of Orcus just back?: :We still don't know the nature of Souls and the Positive Energy Plane: :PC on profile, Aldritch Elpyptrat Maxinfield: :Helljumpers, Bungie.net: :Rock Hard Gladiator, RIP Fluidanim, Long Live Pluto: :IRC lives:
https://thisisstorytelling.wordpress.com
T_P_T |
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cpthero2
Great Reader
USA
2285 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2020 : 23:24:17
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Learned Scribe PattPlays,
Out of curiosity, which map are you using for global? I have some that definitely do bring about that brush stroke like affect. You have a URL to one I can check out that might be different?
Best regards,
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Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring |
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PattPlays
Senior Scribe
469 Posts |
Posted - 16 Nov 2020 : 17:44:31
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quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2
Learned Scribe PattPlays,
Out of curiosity, which map are you using for global? I have some that definitely do bring about that brush stroke like affect. You have a URL to one I can check out that might be different?
Best regards,
Brushstrokes as in "details determined by the method used to build the map".
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1nYJIwolo8Cht-LZfmkvztr21Ld4x95Xm/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1fnIA2eINP2-gvCZq8QeKl5WXkKNOItGS/view?usp=sharing
https://www.dndcombat.com/toril/
As you can see, these maps are phenomenal but not practical on the small scales. They're zoomable, but the texture patterns used for mountains and foothills are more satellite view and less terrain view. Meanwhile this ancient map of the high forest is like an actually cartographed work from the region, albeit arranged like a playable hex-map. It's got a practical style that I really like, and finally gives me a headcanon for the region's terrain. Spellpague be damned artists can not agree on a way to map this random little nook. |
:The world's greatest OOTA fan/critic: :"Powder kegs within powder kegs!": :Meta-Dimensional Cheese: :Why is the Wand of Orcus just back?: :We still don't know the nature of Souls and the Positive Energy Plane: :PC on profile, Aldritch Elpyptrat Maxinfield: :Helljumpers, Bungie.net: :Rock Hard Gladiator, RIP Fluidanim, Long Live Pluto: :IRC lives:
https://thisisstorytelling.wordpress.com
T_P_T |
Edited by - PattPlays on 16 Nov 2020 17:44:56 |
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TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore
USA
1289 Posts |
Posted - 16 Nov 2020 : 19:18:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
quote:
Originally posted by PattPlays
Oh man, if anyone can emulate that High Forest map here https://secure.profantasy.com/fratlas/highforest.jpg in this software for any hidden goodies (or a better resolution shot of that Scale Legend in the bottom left) I would be highly thankful. This is the best view of the Shining Falls I've had in over a dozen High Forest maps!
While it has old school resonance the old FR Atlas software maps are not to my taste. There are far better, more accurate and detailed maps of the High Forest, both published and unpublished.
-- George Krashos
And far more recent ones, as well. I still think the Atlas was ahead of its time, but it's been 21 years since it was released.
(Ye gods, that makes me feel old!)
<passes Wooly a shawl and rocker> Welcome to the club! |
"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."
My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore
USA
1289 Posts |
Posted - 16 Nov 2020 : 19:32:25
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quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2
Master Rupert,
quote:
And far more recent ones, as well. I still think the Atlas was ahead of its time, but it's been 21 years since it was released. (Ye gods, that makes me feel old!)
I have to agree with you regarding the Atlas being ahead of its time. As I was commenting to Master Krashos, the quality is of course, is clearly a couple of decades behind, but it is a very valuable tool. I was using it today for my campaign in fact! :)
I am sadly certain that another Atlas will never be released again by WotC (or any future IP holder of that product line). Though, I would happily be first in line to eat crow if that ever changes!
Best regards,
The nice thing about the old FRIA maps is that you can open and edit them in Campaign Cartographer 3+. That is what I have been doing to create a new, updated Iriaebor map. Sadly, my skills in that application are rudimentary at best. |
"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."
My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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cpthero2
Great Reader
USA
2285 Posts |
Posted - 16 Nov 2020 : 23:18:29
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Learned Scribe PattPlays,
Ahhh...I see. I appreciate that clarification.
quote:
Brushstrokes as in "details determined by the method used to build the map".
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1nYJIwolo8Cht-LZfmkvztr21Ld4x95Xm/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1fnIA2eINP2-gvCZq8QeKl5WXkKNOItGS/view?usp=sharing
https://www.dndcombat.com/toril/
As you can see, these maps are phenomenal but not practical on the small scales. They're zoomable, but the texture patterns used for mountains and foothills are more satellite view and less terrain view. Meanwhile this ancient map of the high forest is like an actually cartographed work from the region, albeit arranged like a playable hex-map. It's got a practical style that I really like, and finally gives me a headcanon for the region's terrain. Spellpague be damned artists can not agree on a way to map this random little nook.
I can certainly appreciate that. I've never seen that second map you linked, before. That is really awesome!
I do totally get the idea of the old map's utility when juxtaposed against the new. I will say, I just love that we live in a time where such critiques are a thing. We live quite well good sir! :)
Best regards,
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Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring |
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PattPlays
Senior Scribe
469 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2020 : 02:47:42
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quote:
Originally posted by cpthero2
Learned Scribe PattPlays,
Ahhh...I see. I appreciate that clarification.
quote:
Brushstrokes as in "details determined by the method used to build the map".
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1nYJIwolo8Cht-LZfmkvztr21Ld4x95Xm/view?usp=sharing
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1fnIA2eINP2-gvCZq8QeKl5WXkKNOItGS/view?usp=sharing
https://www.dndcombat.com/toril/
As you can see, these maps are phenomenal but not practical on the small scales. They're zoomable, but the texture patterns used for mountains and foothills are more satellite view and less terrain view. Meanwhile this ancient map of the high forest is like an actually cartographed work from the region, albeit arranged like a playable hex-map. It's got a practical style that I really like, and finally gives me a headcanon for the region's terrain. Spellpague be damned artists can not agree on a way to map this random little nook.
I can certainly appreciate that. I've never seen that second map you linked, before. That is really awesome!
I do totally get the idea of the old map's utility when juxtaposed against the new. I will say, I just love that we live in a time where such critiques are a thing. We live quite well good sir! :)
Best regards,
To wrap back around to Dragonrise Keep, just completely stumbled upon the fact that the second map I linked also is the only of the three there to have the location marked. It does seem quite rare.. |
:The world's greatest OOTA fan/critic: :"Powder kegs within powder kegs!": :Meta-Dimensional Cheese: :Why is the Wand of Orcus just back?: :We still don't know the nature of Souls and the Positive Energy Plane: :PC on profile, Aldritch Elpyptrat Maxinfield: :Helljumpers, Bungie.net: :Rock Hard Gladiator, RIP Fluidanim, Long Live Pluto: :IRC lives:
https://thisisstorytelling.wordpress.com
T_P_T |
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cpthero2
Great Reader
USA
2285 Posts |
Posted - 17 Nov 2020 : 05:45:55
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Learned Scribe PattPlays,
Out of curiosity, how and where did you stumble across the rarity of that map, if you don't mind me asking? :)
Best regards,
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Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring |
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PattPlays
Senior Scribe
469 Posts |
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cpthero2
Great Reader
USA
2285 Posts |
Posted - 12 Oct 2021 : 07:34:57
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Great Reader Dallison,
{Following up with a bump from my response last year}
I agree with Master Rupert here: what is non-neutral about having a castle in the Western Heartlands? Is it something legal, or is it merely that they power is had, and power disallows neutrality?
Best regards,
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Higher Atlar
Spirit Soaring |
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Topic |
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Dragonrise Keep
