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Pikle
Acolyte
USA
3 Posts |
 Posted - 23 Jan 2017 : 09:32:47
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Trying to come up with a back story for a dwarf craft preist from Ravens bluff with a very high intelligence has sill number of skill on top all the bonus skills
Appraising ,artist ability, endurance, engineer, mining,nav under ground, religion, weapons Smith,speak dwarven common, goblin,ork, plus read and write dwarven and common.
Is there an organization may explain the skill set a church of mordin a great dwarven library in Ravens bluff?
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2017 : 17:15:16
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Off the top of my head, I would say he was originally from Earthfast (a kingdom of dwarves right nearby Raven's Bluff) - that would probably be the nearest temple of Moradin. There is also a very large library (one that would rival Candlekeep) somewhere in the vicinity, but the exact lore escapes me.* You could say your dwarf left Earthfast to study at the library for a time, and then went on to Raven's Bluff.
*Its the House of Many Tomes, which is in the foothills of the Earthfast Mts., and is a temple, probably to Oghma. You could always say you got a vision from Moradin to go there, and the priests there were expecting you (having already been given a 'heads up' by their own deity). Fortunately for you, all of these places are on the same peninsula as Raven's Bluff (so fairly close by). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 23 Jan 2017 17:15:40 |
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Wrigley
Senior Scribe
Czech Republic
605 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2017 : 18:09:07
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It is a temple of Deneir that is supposed to be hidden but it make sense that it is hardly hidden from local dwarves.
I think that you could aquire all those mentioned skills with dwarves themselves but it should be a larger community than in Raven's Bluff. Some settlement in nearby mountains should be fine (like those Earthfast mts). |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2017 : 19:27:30
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I would even give the temple an underground connection to the dwarves - a 'bolt hole' for both groups in case of attack. In fact, you might even want to toy with the idea there is a LONG tunnel that connects Earthfast to the sewers beneath Raven's Bluff (imagine if dwarves and gnomes had many such connections throughout the Realms).
Thanks for the heads-up on Deneir (although he may or may not be around in a 5e campaign - he sacrificed himself at the outset of the Spellplague, IIRC). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 24 Jan 2017 00:02:51 |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6643 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jan 2017 : 22:55:00
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There's also Iron Dragon Mountain in the Earthfasts, which holds a temple to Deneir. Check out the write-up in Faiths and Avatars.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2017 : 00:04:12
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There are TWO prominent temples to Deneir in the Earthfasts?  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 24 Jan 2017 00:04:27 |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6643 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2017 : 08:52:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
There are TWO prominent temples to Deneir in the Earthfasts?
I phrased that badly. The Master's Library is inside Iron Dragon Mountain. In my Ouranalathra "the Mistmaiden" dragon write-up somewhere here at the 'Keep, I gave more information as to how that temple came to be.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11690 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2017 : 14:12:52
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
There are TWO prominent temples to Deneir in the Earthfasts?
I phrased that badly. The Master's Library is inside Iron Dragon Mountain. In my Ouranalathra "the Mistmaiden" dragon write-up somewhere here at the 'Keep, I gave more information as to how that temple came to be.
-- George Krashos
That library also makes an appearance in "Ashes of the Tyrant" by Erin Evans, though you see very little of it due to some collapse. So, yeah, I guess there are two major temples to Deneir in the roughly Aglarond area.
Markustay, not two temples to Deneir. One temple/Library to Deneir, One temple/library to Oghma. One can say from this though that this section of the realms was probably more likely to embrace Oghma and Deneir than other areas of the realms, and that probably reflected in fewer shrines/temples to "similar" deities like Azuth and Savras. That being said, I see Azuth stronger in the dalelands area. I also suspect that Ilmwatch where all the Impilturian scrying stones were kept had a shrine to Savras.
From Faiths and Avatars, page 55, for Master's Library, under Deneir
"Iron Dragon Mountain, a hidden, legendary peak in the Earthfast Mountains, is the site of the Master#146;s Library in Faerūn, a complex of many caverns where more books than anywhere else in all the Realms#151;even Candlekeep, the Library of Curna in the Curna Mountains, and the great libraries of Shou Lung#151;are stored. Here can be found the High Librarians, who have samples of all known written tongues and can read them (even dragon writings). Sixty or so High Librarians #151;said to all be bearded, balding, shuffling men of great age are said to live here. Their leader is the Librarian Supreme Haliduth Orspriir, a vigorous man who has lived some 600 years by the grace of Deneir. He can call on eight mature adult to great wyrm mist dragons who lair in various nearby peaks to defend the Library from attack. All devout Deneirrath undertake a pilgrimage to the Master's Library at least once in their lives, but most never get beyond the Reading Room, a small fastness well to the south of the true e temple, where a kindly old female Keeper (assisted and guarded by loyal watchghosts) makes use of a secret gate (usable only by nonliving matter) to send notes to the Master's Library requesting specific texts and to receive copies of the requested writings to hand to the faithful.
Then there's the few references I can find to the "House of Many Tomes". Most of them reference Prespaerin Cadathlyn
This is from Faiths and Avatars, section on Oghma, page 133
"House of Many Tomes fortified abbey in upland Impiltur west of Songhal, where Loremaster Most Exalted Prespaerin Cadathlyn claims to have reached #147;a new closeness#148; to the Binder and has taken the title #147;Binder of Faerūn#148; as a mark of his oneness with the god."
Second, the description of a frog-like fiend with six eyes matches only one other faith recorded in the encyclopedic compendium of faiths listed in Cults and Clerics: An Accounting of Religious Sects Since the Fall of Netheril, scribed by Loremaster Most Exalted Prespaerin Cadathlyn of the House of Many Tomes in upland Impiltur west of Songhal . |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2017 : 16:55:06
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Okay, so there is a reason why I am confused...
I SAID the first one - The House of Many Tomes - was a temple of Oghma, but then someone corrected me and said it was a temple to Deneir. That incorrect correction threw me off (because for once I didn't bother to go check a source).
Then Krash brought up the second one - The Master's Library - ALSO in the Earthfast Mountains, which actually IS a temple to Deneir.
And Earthfasts are no where near Aglarond - they are the border between The Vast and Impiltur (before I get even more confused... must be a conspiracy...) |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 24 Jan 2017 16:56:47 |
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Pikle
Acolyte
USA
3 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2017 : 17:09:59
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| Like this forum thanks folks |
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Wrigley
Senior Scribe
Czech Republic
605 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2017 : 17:32:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Okay, so there is a reason why I am confused...
I SAID the first one - The House of Many Tomes - was a temple of Oghma, but then someone corrected me and said it was a temple to Deneir. That incorrect correction threw me off (because for once I didn't bother to go check a source).
Then Krash brought up the second one - The Master's Library - ALSO in the Earthfast Mountains, which actually IS a temple to Deneir.
And Earthfasts are no where near Aglarond - they are the border between The Vast and Impiltur (before I get even more confused... must be a conspiracy...)
Sorry for missleading you I had no idea there is also a temple to Oghma... |
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Pikle
Acolyte
USA
3 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2017 : 20:58:22
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| Perhaps I'll run into caterly |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 24 Jan 2017 : 21:07:10
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That would be the Spirit Soaring Temple (or Soaring Spirit, depending on the source), which is way down in Erlkazar. Although being 'High Priest' (Chosen) of Deneir, I guess he would occasionally visit other temples... if he is even still alive.
And thanks for liking us. 
We are a persnikity but knowledgeable bunch.
quote:
Originally posted by Wrigley
Sorry for missleading you I had no idea there is also a temple to Oghma...
No, no... quite alright. I just felt like I was in the wrong conversation of something. LOL
When lore is being shared, apologies are never necessary.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 25 Jan 2017 08:10:38 |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2382 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2017 : 07:31:00
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| If you don't insist on the dwarf being born and raised there, a lot of more adventurous beards could travel to Ravens Bluff. With an eye on gauging prospects of retaking Sarbreen. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11690 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2017 : 13:43:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
Okay, so there is a reason why I am confused...
I SAID the first one - The House of Many Tomes - was a temple of Oghma, but then someone corrected me and said it was a temple to Deneir. That incorrect correction threw me off (because for once I didn't bother to go check a source).
Then Krash brought up the second one - The Master's Library - ALSO in the Earthfast Mountains, which actually IS a temple to Deneir.
And Earthfasts are no where near Aglarond - they are the border between The Vast and Impiltur (before I get even more confused... must be a conspiracy...)
LOL, and I actually had never noted either of them (I was surprised to read about the Master's Library in Ashes of the Tyrant and was wondering if there was a source or was it just made up for the novel.... consider me surprised to see more about it in the forums). |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jan 2017 : 18:06:01
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The fact that the two deities are closely allied, and have massive, REDUNDANT libraries so close to each other is really weird, IMHO.
If I were in charge, I would just say the two temples are both connected to the same library complex (there IS a library on the border of Canada/the U.S. like that - one library serving two countries; you just have to walk out the door you came in by).
And people say Canada is a real country.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11690 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2017 : 02:51:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
The fact that the two deities are closely allied, and have massive, REDUNDANT libraries so close to each other is really weird, IMHO.
If I were in charge, I would just say the two temples are both connected to the same library complex (there IS a library on the border of Canada/the U.S. like that - one library serving two countries; you just have to walk out the door you came in by).
And people say Canada is a real country.
Yeah, but one library is hidden, and the other is out in the open. So, I'd probably go with the Oghman library was there first, and then the Deneirrath broke off to build this place where they can securely protect certain old tomes. I'd also note that the House of Many Tomes and the Citadel of Conjurers also aren't too far apart, and there may have been some affiliations there from around the time the Jhaamdathi started moving into the area.
I wonder if the city of Songhal got its name from being a "Song Hall" for followers of Oghma (he is a god of bards, even though Milil is more noted for song). |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Wrigley
Senior Scribe
Czech Republic
605 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2017 : 17:08:34
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| I see Oghma as a god of oral tradition regarding knowledge and Deneir for a written tradition. So House of Many Tomes sounds wierd for temple of Oghma to me... and I agree with Markus this closeness is strange indeed (maybe Alexandria had also second hidden and even bigger library :-)) It make sense that presence of temple of Oghma would be close so they can use this knowledge and spread it. Maybe it was named for sentiments of first Oghmanite priest who saw the library of Deneir. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2017 : 18:25:26
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
The fact that the two deities are closely allied, and have massive, REDUNDANT libraries so close to each other is really weird, IMHO.
If I were in charge, I would just say the two temples are both connected to the same library complex (there IS a library on the border of Canada/the U.S. like that - one library serving two countries; you just have to walk out the door you came in by).
And people say Canada is a real country.
Yeah, but one library is hidden, and the other is out in the open. So, I'd probably go with the Oghman library was there first, and then the Deneirrath broke off to build this place where they can securely protect certain old tomes. I'd also note that the House of Many Tomes and the Citadel of Conjurers also aren't too far apart, and there may have been some affiliations there from around the time the Jhaamdathi started moving into the area.
I like this idea. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2017 : 21:02:33
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quote:
Originally posted by Wrigley
I see Oghma as a god of oral tradition regarding knowledge and Deneir for a written tradition. So House of Many Tomes sounds weird for temple of Oghma to me... and I agree with Markus this closeness is strange indeed (maybe Alexandria had also second hidden and even bigger library :-)) It make sense that presence of temple of Oghma would be close so they can use this knowledge and spread it. Maybe it was named for sentiments of first Oghmanite priest who saw the library of Deneir.
I find that part about a 'second, hidden library' interesting, because there have been hints that such a place exists for Candlekeep as well. Back in 3e, I had theorized that this may have been the Library of Perpustakaan (K-T), but now I am thinking that was simply an affiliated, eastern version of CK, while the 'hidden keep' lay much closer to the first (in part, because of how I homebrewed a 'fix' for some of the 4e lore - the Candlekeep we see - off the coast - in 4e was actually the secret, hidden one, the known one having been destroyed during the Spellplague). I picture there being some sort of 'fail safe', wherein entire rooms got teleported en masse to the second location (or conversely, those rooms were always in the hidden one, and there were doors at CK that were actually portals, that lead to these vaults of super-rare tomes). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 26 Jan 2017 21:18:29 |
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Abeir
Acolyte
26 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2017 : 21:17:29
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| Of course the ancient dwarf city of Sarbreen lays underneath Raven's Bluff. Not that it would help with using an existing organization but its very possible that it could have once housed a great dwarven library. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2017 : 21:19:42
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I always forget about Sarbreen... mostly because WotC would like to just forget about Sarbreenar, and just ignores all that old lore.
And YES, saying the Earthfast delves are connected to the ancient Sarbreen ones makes perfect sense. Perhaps there is an ancient library there, wherein dwarven runepriests once learned the art of forging Runes of Power. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 26 Jan 2017 21:22:55 |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3285 Posts |
Posted - 26 Jan 2017 : 22:56:43
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| Lol and folks want WotC to do a Campaign Guide. Stay in The Sword Coast and let the real experts update the setting... |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Wrigley
Senior Scribe
Czech Republic
605 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2017 : 21:34:13
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I always forget about Sarbreen... mostly because WotC would like to just forget about Sarbreenar, and just ignores all that old lore.
And YES, saying the Earthfast delves are connected to the ancient Sarbreen ones makes perfect sense. Perhaps there is an ancient library there, wherein dwarven runepriests once learned the art of forging Runes of Power.
Sadly they haven't forgot it and instead placed old drow mythal city underneath it (Prince of Ravens).
And btw Sabreen is the city, Sabreenar is the fortress nearby. |
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Abeir
Acolyte
26 Posts |
Posted - 28 Jan 2017 : 21:57:24
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[/quote]
Sadly they haven't forgot it and instead placed old drow mythal city underneath it (Prince of Ravens).
And btw Sabreen is the city, Sabreenar is the fortress nearby.
[/quote]
It's been a while since I've read Prince of Ravens but I had the impression that Chumavhraele was no more after they blew up the mythal? |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2017 : 00:36:38
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There must have been a change, then.
Sarbreen was the old dwarven city where Raven's Bluff now stands, and Sarbreenar was a town nearby, where the GB RPGA ran their campaigns. After a legal problem with that group, Sarbreenar was just swept under the rug, because most of the lore concerning it was created by that club. It must have later been retconned to be only a fortress.
The old Sarbreenar site is gone, which is a shame, because they produced a lot of good stuff (which WAS canon), but I still have some of the maps from them (not sure from where, considering this computer isn't that old).
Raven's Bluff used to have another name, at the very beginning (I think before the OGB even came out), but it had to be changed for some reason (IIRC, another setting was already using that name, or something very close). Since I no longer have any of my physical maps, I have no way of looking for that now (that name only appeared on one map).*
*It was Ravensgate, and that name appears on the Bloodstone Lands product, which contained a few, early-on mistakes (more like 'before FR canon was firmly established').
Knowing place-names is 'kinda my thang'.
EDIT:
Just checked the wiki, and the info I recall about Sarbreenar is there, but both sets of facts are true (now I sound like a politician again!) When RB was Sarbreen, Sarbreenar was a nearby dwarven outpost/fortress. Later, when RB became a human city, Sarbreenar became a human town.
And getting back the OP - If the vast was riddled with tunnels beneath it connecting all these dwarven settlements (and it is canon that Earthfast was once a much larger, more powerful dwarven kingdom), that would mean we have a dwarven kingdom situated beneath an orcish one (Vastarr{sp?}). |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 29 Jan 2017 05:10:39 |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6643 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2017 : 04:29:47
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In my Impiltur Timeline I created an earlier dwarven kingdom of Felimar to account for the construction of Earthfast and other "stuff".
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Wrigley
Senior Scribe
Czech Republic
605 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2017 : 15:52:03
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I had my info mainly from Dwarves Deeps and I do recognise three dwarven kingdoms in this area. Oghran (Cormyr, Desertmouth mts), Sarphil (Dragonspine, Galenas) and Roldilar (Earthfast, Earthspur, Vast).
For me Sabreen was a Roldilar city that was later razed by Orcs and even later settled by humans as Raven's Bluff and Sabreenar is a old dwarven fortress near Sabreen without any major occupation in 1370+ DR. |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2017 : 18:59:46
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So then Krash's Felimar is redundant with Roldilar?
I would be VERY surprised if he had missed that somehow. |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Wrigley
Senior Scribe
Czech Republic
605 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jan 2017 : 21:43:18
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| I am also interested to see his POV but mainly Roldilar was there for very short time so he might have used Felimar to explain settlements before that and after (possibly). From my perspective those dwarves that created Roldilar must have came from somewhere and it do not fit for any of the other realms I mentioned. So I presume that Roldilar only became known to outside world later and is based in Earthfast and Earthspur mountains for some time. |
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Dwarves in Ravens bluff
