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Marco Volo
Learned Scribe
France
201 Posts |
 Posted - 08 May 2016 : 19:26:00
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Hi everyone,
Is there any sourcebook that explain how flying ships and cities actually fly ?
In my campaign to come, a phaerimm hidden beneath the sands of Anauroch wants to fly a Netheril city he as found under the Great Desert.
And I don't know how he can do it, and what are his needs.
Thanks, folks
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6646 Posts |
Posted - 08 May 2016 : 20:39:30
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The Netheril boxed set. Mythallars. Paul Kemp's Erevis Cale novels for how it might work in the modern Realms.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Marco Volo
Learned Scribe
France
201 Posts |
Posted - 08 May 2016 : 21:33:40
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| Many Thanks, George ! |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2384 Posts |
Posted - 09 May 2016 : 05:27:16
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Halruan skyships (of Netherese origin)?
Lifting power: lots of Suspension (higher-level Levitation) enchantments tied together, ending in the levitation control rod. Total lift diminishes with altitude and is reduced to the own weight long before the ship could leave the atmosphere. Both enchantments on the ship and rod need regular recharge.
Motive power: wind/sail.
Steering: aerodynamical.
That is, requires a wizard on board to control winds.
Now, this may be expensive and inconvenient when spelljamming helms, while also expensive, can do much more and are available, so why it's even a thing, let alone state secret? But the helms come with a disadvantage: damage to hull incurs risk of spelljamming shock and once the helmsman is out cold, immediate loss of power - which is inconvenient enough in space, but in air usually ends in a crash. Like the fall of Monarch Mordent during the Weeping War.
Of course, one can have both on one ship, but that's just even more expensive. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 09 May 2016 : 11:12:31
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quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
Halruan skyships (of Netherese origin)?
Lifting power: lots of Suspension (higher-level Levitation) enchantments tied together, ending in the levitation control rod. Total lift diminishes with altitude and is reduced to the own weight long before the ship could leave the atmosphere. Both enchantments on the ship and rod need regular recharge.
Motive power: wind/sail.
Steering: aerodynamical.
That is, requires a wizard on board to control winds.
Now, this may be expensive and inconvenient when spelljamming helms, while also expensive, can do much more and are available, so why it's even a thing, let alone state secret? But the helms come with a disadvantage: damage to hull incurs risk of spelljamming shock and once the helmsman is out cold, immediate loss of power - which is inconvenient enough in space, but in air usually ends in a crash. Like the fall of Monarch Mordent during the Weeping War.
Of course, one can have both on one ship, but that's just even more expensive.
There's also the fact that the arcane have a monopoly on spelljamming helms. The levitation tactic is home-grown tech, which would be of great appeal, and also doesn't leave a spellcaster unable to cast spells.
Out-setting explanation: Halruaan skyships quite predate Spelljammer. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
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Marco Volo
Learned Scribe
France
201 Posts |
Posted - 19 May 2016 : 19:20:22
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Thanks again ! I may have 2 further questions :
1/ The campaign is set from 1355 to 1367 DR. How can the phaerimm find a way (magic) to reactivate such powerful mythalars ?
2/ Where could he have found a missing mythalar from the city he inhabits ? (I mean where elsewhere in the Realms) ? Any suggestions ?
I^certainly need help to make my plot believable ^^ |
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Wrigley
Senior Scribe
Czech Republic
605 Posts |
Posted - 21 May 2016 : 01:05:47
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Mythalars were only in Netheril - nobody else created them. As there were quite a lot of them you can say that your phaerim found one elsewhere (another fallen enclave) or that he was able to repair one in the city himself. Phaerims also could have taken some mythalars with them to underdark and he could have access to it. He could also be able to cast multiple permanent levitation spells on the city's underside so it will have enough lift and then find a way to propel it in air (by spells or just mundain sails like those skyships above).
I would also suggest looking at workings of Sharnwall as this might limit your phaerim's movement - I am not sure where is it's limit in up direction. |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2384 Posts |
Posted - 24 May 2016 : 15:40:39
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quote:
Originally posted by Marco Volo
1/ The campaign is set from 1355 to 1367 DR. How can the phaerimm find a way (magic) to reactivate such powerful mythalars ?
That's a wrong question. The right question #1 is: why the phaerimm would want to do this?
A mythallar drains the Weave in vicinity so voraciously that it demonstrably affects magical creatures - the elves lose their sleep resistance and half of charm resistance and the phaerimm "suffocate" to the point where the weaker ones die. Which is why they started that covert war with Netheril in the first place. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
Edited by - TBeholder on 24 May 2016 15:41:40 |
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Marco Volo
Learned Scribe
France
201 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2016 : 19:02:27
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You certainly have a point. That's why I like to talk campaign design here at the Keep, thanks TBeholder :)
I wasn't aware of that lore. Initially, my phaerimm wanted to fly to dominate (figuratively and litteraly) Faerun. In his twisted mind, he would be unreachable and could float above cities threatening populations with his army of various monsters recruited in Thar. He sees himself as a God.
But indeed if the mythallar makes him suffocate, I don't know how to justify this. Maybe he can find a way to protect himself against that draining ? |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6352 Posts |
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Marco Volo
Learned Scribe
France
201 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2016 : 19:35:50
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My players fantasise about flyng cities since many winters ago; the opportunity of seeing one of them in a campaign partially set in Anauroch was there, and it's epic ! A damn flying city ! Anyway, if it's too unlikely, so be it :)
I like the idea of the Temple in the Sky very much. The Phaerimm could have the chain removed and floating at the top of the temple above the Anauroch.
And on another hand, my PCs could explore the ruins of a flying city under the sands of Anauroch without seeing one actually flying.
Any thoughts ? |
Edited by - Marco Volo on 25 May 2016 19:37:04 |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6352 Posts |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2016 : 21:13:53
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There's also one off the coast of Aglarond, and there's rumored to be one in Firedrake Bay in Tethyr.
There was another in the Sea of Fallen Stars, but it was was raised, put back in the air, and then was brought down a second time. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 25 May 2016 21:14:39 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11695 Posts |
Posted - 26 May 2016 : 04:15:15
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| There's also the option of hijacking a cloud giant city. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2384 Posts |
Posted - 26 May 2016 : 08:20:03
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
There's also the option of hijacking a cloud giant city.
That's actually a good idea.
Then again, you can do both. In this case, assume there's a small one with already working mythallar, the phaerimm's plan would be:
1) Restore the flight quasimagic and controls,
2) Load a war party of the tough phaerimm and slaves on it.
3) Approach the target (cloud giant sky-city).
4) Boarding action.
5) Profit!
6) Land the enclave - on the fortress or on the ground, depending on its size - and cannibalize its mythallar for juicy magic. (Given that they managed to partially "unweave" Evereska's mythal, it may well be feasible.) |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 26 May 2016 : 16:07:01
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Also, there is the Crown of the Mountain from Dragon Mag... Wyrms of the North I believe. Which uses a more powerful variant of levitation.
Finally, if you do not totally block out EVERYTHING 4th ed like I try to, there are the Earth motes that are pretty much anywhere you want them to be. |
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3286 Posts |
Posted - 26 May 2016 : 20:13:47
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| Then you have Obsidian Ridge |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
Edited by - Brimstone on 26 May 2016 23:59:39 |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 26 May 2016 : 22:49:27
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quote:
Originally posted by Marco Volo
Hi everyone,
Is there any sourcebook that explain how flying ships and cities actually fly ?
In my campaign to come, a phaerimm hidden beneath the sands of Anauroch wants to fly a Netheril city he as found under the Great Desert.
And I don't know how he can do it, and what are his needs.
Thanks, folks
Aside from all those other notes - read through the Netheril boxed set closely... there are numerous enclaves that have not been accounted for and might just be laying there under the sands ready to be raised and being drained by your phaerimm for the years since the fall. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 26 May 2016 : 23:27:54
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quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
quote:
Originally posted by Marco Volo
Hi everyone,
Is there any sourcebook that explain how flying ships and cities actually fly ?
In my campaign to come, a phaerimm hidden beneath the sands of Anauroch wants to fly a Netheril city he as found under the Great Desert.
And I don't know how he can do it, and what are his needs.
Thanks, folks
Aside from all those other notes - read through the Netheril boxed set closely... there are numerous enclaves that have not been accounted for and might just be laying there under the sands ready to be raised and being drained by your phaerimm for the years since the fall.
Indeed. I seem to recall that boxed set saying there were 54 flying cities, at one point. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Starshade
Learned Scribe
Norway
279 Posts |
Posted - 27 May 2016 : 13:17:00
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| An idea i just had, seeing this thread; the phaerimm pretend to look into fixing the mythallar and sends beholderkin allies out for parts. In reality they and the beholders plan using a beholderkin species or mutant called a "orbus", who is basically eye tyrant spelljammer helmets. The Netheril High Magic the players hunts, were meant for food for the trip up into the sky and upwards... |
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Marco Volo
Learned Scribe
France
201 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jun 2016 : 18:44:20
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| I thank you all for your replies, this is great help :) |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2384 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jun 2016 : 08:28:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Starshade
An idea i just had, seeing this thread; the phaerimm pretend to look into fixing the mythallar
Pretend for whom, and why they'd bother?
quote:
In reality they and the beholders plan using a beholderkin species or mutant called a "orbus"
Which is what the spacefaring beholders do all the time anyway. So why would a hive rather than producing some orbi and ship(s) running on beholder circuit from step one (if they can), mess about and do the same in a roundabout way?
With phaerimm "allies" or without. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
Edited by - TBeholder on 02 Jun 2016 08:30:09 |
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Marco Volo
Learned Scribe
France
201 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jun 2016 : 16:22:45
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Hi! the brainstorming continues :
The phaerimm gets a mythallar somewhere in the Realms via manipulated human beings. How would they transport such object from the ruin they found it to the lair of the phaerimm (far from them) ? Via a secret and furtive merchant caravan would be great for the campaign but how would you do it without the object getting spotted ?
Are magical protection of the object even possible ?
Thanks folks. |
Edited by - Marco Volo on 12 Jun 2016 19:58:28 |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2384 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2016 : 00:06:00
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quote:
Originally posted by Marco Volo
How would they transport such object from the ruin they found it to the lair of the phaerimm (far from them) ?
Why would they want it anywhere near their lair?
They could try to set up a hideout nearby, there fix and board their "enclave" (simply teleport in small groups, which goes more smoothly when the destination is neither warded nor is a battlefield), conceal it with magic and take off after their target. Or make it ready to launch first and bring in the slaves and phaerimm while it flies, if they can.
quote:
Are magical protection of the object even possible ?
Unlikely. A mythallar (along with whatever structure holds it) would be defended with area wards, might of the owning archwizard and the fact that touching one is much the same as touching a sphere of annihilation. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
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Marco Volo
Learned Scribe
France
201 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2016 : 09:15:41
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To me, the phaerimm needs the mythallar to "power up" the Temple in the Sky and make it better. Actually the Temple in the sky simply drift and it needs the mythallar to get fixed and flying properly.
The PCs are manipulated by a man (let's call him "Bob") that is manipulated by the phaerimm. So, PCs have to get the mythallar and give it to that man (he's in Zhentil Keep, PCs are in Tantras).
Then "Bob" need to go to the Temple to "put" the mythallar in the Temple, and fully activate its flying abilities.
And I was wandering how can the mythallar be moved from Tantras to Zhentil Keep ; and then from ZK to the Temple in the sky ?
(the original idea was to have the PCs in a caravan, not knowing they are transporting a mythallar in the cargo, but if it's too unbelievable, I will try something else.) |
Edited by - Marco Volo on 13 Jun 2016 09:17:15 |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6352 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2016 : 09:39:44
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Best way to hide something is in plain sight.
Having a mythallar exist somewhere, indeed anywhere is fine. Netheril had lots of outposts (land based enclaves they are called at the moment although im hoping to change that) all over the place and every one of those could conceivably have a mythallar or two (they used them to control the environment as well as power magic items).
One may well have survived and its entirely possible it could have been mistaken for a bauble by an incompetent sage or wizard or commoner ploughing his fields.
Maybe mythallars are resistant to magical transport (given that they drain nearby magic) and so can only be transported physically.
So how the phaerimm located this mythallar gathering dust in a closet is up to you. Why is it being moved, well purchases of trinkets happens all the time, perhaps the owner can claim he is relocating.
The big problem i see is that if i were a pc and asked to transport something to zhentil keep id be immediately suspicious of the cargo because everyone in the keep is perceived as being evil.
So instead have the cargo transported to the dalelands (perhaps the dale where rhauntides lives if you are playing in 1360dr) and the caravan can be attacked partway.
So the manipulated owner is travelling with the party as part of a larger caravan with much more expensive goods (mundane weapons perhaps). He pays the party for protection (is scared of the sea so will only go by land).
The caravan travels up the vast and along the southern edge of the moonsea where it is attacked outside voonlar. The bandits seem to be going for the weapons and later discoveries may lead the pcs to think they are iron throne sponsored bandits.
If the bandits get the mythallar in the confusion then the man doesnt pay them and it ends up in the hands of the phaerimm. If the mythallar is saved from the bandits then the pcs get paid and have delivered the goods to the dales where they are transferred to the phaerimm anyway.
Then you can set up multiple plot lines involving iron throne and zhent sponsored bandits and agents from both in the dales and one of them is secretly under thrall of the phaerimm (making him a double agent).
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VikingLegion
Senior Scribe
USA
483 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jun 2016 : 17:08:34
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quote:
Originally posted by dazzlerdal
Well eds original vision was that very few of the enclaves were cities. Most were little more than floating towers.
We know anauria, asram, hlondath, xinlenal, and eileanur were city sized (I surmised it was because of the power of the creating archmage). The others can be much smaller (unless you follow novels or the much maligned netheril: empire of magic).
Thultanthar is a city now but that doesn't mean it always was.
Is that the same as Hlaungadath? I had some notes scribbled somewhere about a city that (safely?) landed up in the High Ice and is now a lamia-infested ruin. Here's the wikia entry:
http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Hlaungadath
*EDIT* Nevermind, I did a search and found Hlondath to be a separate location. Hlaungadath, being largely intact and located in a very remote and inhospitable location, might be a decent candidate for a city that is returned to the sky. Plus it comes with a populace of lamia, manticore, asabi, and gargoyle minions already in place that could fall under the sway of a powerful BBEG.
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Edited by - VikingLegion on 13 Jun 2016 17:11:21 |
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Flying Cities
