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Barastir
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1600 Posts |
 Posted - 26 May 2016 : 20:02:42
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| The moonblades' creation and purpose is mainly found in Evermeet: Island of the Elves and in Cormanthyr: Empire of the Elves. Its first rune comes from Ethlando, a High Mage and excellent judge of character who had the strongest sense of the blades' mission on finding a King in this new world (and yes, silver elves would be a better choice, then). So, he sacrificed himself to give the swords its first power, which was to judge its would-be owner. The second rune came with each clan's first owner of the blade. |
"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."
The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood) |
Edited by - Barastir on 26 May 2016 20:04:55 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 26 May 2016 : 20:47:08
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Do we know that the first rune was from Ethlando? It's been a while since I read it, but I don't recall Arilyn's moonblade having a rune from him.
My thinking was that the runes came from the powers invested by actual wielders, and that Ethlando's contribution was the judgement gig and the power for the blade to get new powers. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 26 May 2016 : 21:35:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Do we know that the first rune was from Ethlando? It's been a while since I read it, but I don't recall Arilyn's moonblade having a rune from him.
My thinking was that the runes came from the powers invested by actual wielders, and that Ethlando's contribution was the judgement gig and the power for the blade to get new powers.
The first power, to test wielders, was from him... but his soul was not among those that manifested and corresponded to a rune on her blade. |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 26 May 2016 : 21:50:03
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quote:
Originally posted by Barastir
The answer to this is that not every generation is worthy. Every blade spent many generations active but unclaimed, waiting for the next worthy elf in that clan to be born, raised properly, and finally to try claiming the blade if, after centuries of life, he or she - or his or her family think she is ready.
I have a hard time buying into the idea that a moonblade spent only 9 of 40 generations born by a moonfighter. If they were THAT hard to draw, the houses would all be whittled to next to nothing by hopefuls.
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2382 Posts |
Posted - 26 May 2016 : 23:52:03
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quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
Simple mathematics. According to Evermeet IoE, the moonblades were created in -9000DR, so that's about 10500 years ago.
Due to the average life span of elves (refer to the table in the complete book of elves) even if every wielder lived to venerable old age (300-350 years) the average blade would have had about 30 wielders.
And never got lost - what's with being an "adventurer's blade" and one of its wielders collecting cobwebs in someone's treasure vaults for generations.
Never mind that these things kill anyone who fails the test, right? I am less than optimistic about Elven decision-making, but as a rule they aren't so completely bug-brained they'd spiral toward lanterns and throw themselves into fire just because it's here.
Yes, yes. I remember that hilarious scene in Myth Drannor... but that was an exception. 
Elaith was the only one (we know of) this overeager, and only because he didn't know better. Which did cost him a lot and could well cost more.
Ah, found the link - Elaine already covered this here. But come on, it should be obvious. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
Edited by - TBeholder on 27 May 2016 00:28:08 |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 27 May 2016 : 03:15:32
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Of course that is the obvious answer, but it is, in my estimation altogether insufficient. Arlynn's moonblade was only wielded by 1 elf per MILLENNIUM. That's not just skipping a generation or two.
The count of 9 makes perfect sense if the blade was created by the smiths of "ancient Myth Drannor" as described in FOR5 - roughly 1 thousand years ago. I'm not suggesting a return to that origin, just pointing out the 10000 years is much longer than people seem to be estimating. In the real world that would put it just about as long ago as the last ice age and the extinction of saber-tooth. That is a LONG time guys :P
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1600 Posts |
Posted - 27 May 2016 : 04:10:40
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| Well, it was never mentioned as one or two generations. After all, the blade would be selecting potential King Arthurs for the elves. Something like a valorous paladin and king, prepared to deal with the People's future in the world to come. |
"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."
The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood) |
Edited by - Barastir on 27 May 2016 04:12:04 |
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Rymac
Learned Scribe
USA
315 Posts |
Posted - 27 May 2016 : 05:10:11
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quote:
Originally posted by Barastir
After all, the blade would be selecting potential King Arthurs for the elves.
That had never occurred to me, although that's what Moonblades do. Taking that analogy further, perhaps a way to reawaken a Moonblade would be seek a sacred place of power, perhaps with the help of that place's guardian. In the obvious example, a lake and its Lady of the Lake. |
- Ryan |
Edited by - Rymac on 27 May 2016 05:10:41 |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2016 : 16:08:09
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I think I figured out how to deal with the moonblades and their "changed purpose." The idea is still a little hazy, but I'm working on it. :)
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1600 Posts |
Posted - 06 Jul 2016 : 16:28:36
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Very good, Mrs. Cunningham! Can't wait to see it.  |
"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."
The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood) |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2016 : 04:06:37
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quote:
Originally posted by Rymac
quote:
Originally posted by Barastir
After all, the blade would be selecting potential King Arthurs for the elves.
That had never occurred to me, although that's what Moonblades do. Taking that analogy further, perhaps a way to reawaken a Moonblade would be seek a sacred place of power, perhaps with the help of that place's guardian. In the obvious example, a lake and its Lady of the Lake.
I think it should be considered that as a group, the moonblades were selecting a king, but they were not individually seeking a king.
By that I mean, it has been established that some of the moonblades were not potential king swords - their wielders needed different skill sets and many if not most of these were not suited to be rulers.
Here is were the idea of fate works into the mix in my mind. Zoar's sword was the kingsword not just because it worked out that way, but because it was fated to be. Amlaruil knew it immediately. I'd take it a step further that the Seldarine ALWAYS knew it would be.
The leader of the first moon elves in Faerun was Sharlario Moonflower. It could not possibly be seen as a coincidence that the first king that was foretold would be his descendant.
I remember a line from one of the Spider Queen books about what sets gods apart from mortals is the ability to see how things will work out in thousands of years (bad paraphrase, sorry).
Therefore, I submit that the role of moonblades was not so much to select the future king, but, to make those elves who would have resisted that selection see it was the correct one. Even the haughtiest gold elves would have an impossible time disputing 10000 years of tradition and getting 'the people' to listen. |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 13 Jul 2016 : 05:08:38
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Taking this a step further, it follows that the Seldarine also knew that Zoar would be killed by gold elves who resented his rule. They also knew that one of the moonblades would make this possible.
So the role of the moonblades (from the Seldarine's perspective) was not only to choose the king, but then to kill the king, and in so doing cement the reign of Amlaruil :D.
Its fun to ponder things like that :P Reminds me of the Star Trex TNG Finale "All Good Things" where the cause of the past and present was the actions of the future and vice versa. The ultimate chicken and the egg to ponder :D |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2016 : 18:21:04
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Masked Mage, these are ideas I have also pondered. Since we share an interest in elven philosophy, would you care to suggest a name for elven sage who expounds upon these matters?
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2016 : 18:56:08
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quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
Masked Mage, these are ideas I have also pondered. Since we share an interest in elven philosophy, would you care to suggest a name for elven sage who expounds upon these matters?
I guess I'd say the patriarchs Yalathanil Symbearn and Ilianaro Durothil from Elves of Evermeet would make interesting choices. Both are ancient and well regarded... Perhaps they have conflicting ideas on the topic that they have been debating for hundreds of years and they rekindle the argument whenever some new event occurs in relation to the topic :P |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2016 : 20:17:07
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quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
Masked Mage, these are ideas I have also pondered. Since we share an interest in elven philosophy, would you care to suggest a name for elven sage who expounds upon these matters?
I guess I'd say the patriarchs Yalathanil Symbearn and Ilianaro Durothil from Elves of Evermeet would make interesting choices. Both are ancient and well regarded... Perhaps they have conflicting ideas on the topic that they have been debating for hundreds of years and they rekindle the argument whenever some new event occurs in relation to the topic :P
How about, the original guy's diary turns up, and his wording for the moonblade idea implies that he didn't think gold elves were suitable rulers? It doesn't actually say that, and other passages show the guy was rather egalatarian -- but that one passage could be easily inferred to show prejudice against gold elves. When this is found, any gold elves convinced of their own racial superiority decide that the passage obviously means the deck was stacked against them from the start and thus the whole thing should be chucked aside... Causing a whole mess of political turmoil.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jul 2016 : 21:53:46
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| As far as making up original names and characters - I'm terrible at that. Same goes for words that sound like anything other than English, though I do do a killer Swedish Chef impersonation. "De Flim Es OakeyDokey" :) |
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BrianDavion
Seeker
71 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2016 : 11:57:10
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I used to know an awesome site for constructing Sindarinn and Qunya elvish names, that unfortunatly seems to have been taken down. no FR doesn't use those languages but handy for creating names that at least SOUNDED right. pity it's gone. :(
By the way, on a seperate tangent, one question that's come to mind from this conversation and I'm curious as to the answer...
How do you intend for us to interpret the historical aspects of the Evermeet novel Elaine, should we view them as "the true events being witnessed" or "the product and writing of Danilo's research, and thus possiably prone to error, misinformation or simply embelishment?
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2016 : 16:30:42
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quote:
Originally posted by BrianDavion
I used to know an awesome site for constructing Sindarinn and Qunya elvish names, that unfortunatly seems to have been taken down. no FR doesn't use those languages but handy for creating names that at least SOUNDED right. pity it's gone. :(
By the way, on a seperate tangent, one question that's come to mind from this conversation and I'm curious as to the answer...
How do you intend for us to interpret the historical aspects of the Evermeet novel Elaine, should we view them as "the true events being witnessed" or "the product and writing of Danilo's research, and thus possiably prone to error, misinformation or simply embelishment?
When EVERMEET was being written, editor Brian Thomsen was very clear that he wanted to maintain "deniability" that would allow for future changes and flexible interpretations of the "facts" in the novel. So yes, I think it's best to regard it as Danilo's work, the product of the best information he could get his hands on. He submitted the manuscript to an elven sage for review, but the ms that became the novel is not an approved and revised version. I would say that he has most of the facts right, but he did not have all the facts. And even if he DID, I maintain that all history is fiction, in that facts are, of necessity, selected to shape a narrative. The narrative Danilo constructed was shaped by two things: His desire to give Arilyn the gift of her family story, and the invasion of Evermeet.
Also, some parts of the book were never intended to be taken as historical fact. Dan and I both considered the section on the gods to be mythology and metaphor, not a literal, factual recitation of what transpired in distant times and other planes of existence.
There are essentially three layers of storytelling happening in this novel. It was an ambitious experiment, one that succeeded in some ways, and fell short in others.
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2016 : 17:21:46
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| I'd say by and large it was a success. How you tied it so nicely to the characters that were already developed and had a good fan base was fantastic. It also touched on many of the important bits of lore that we only had hints at and gave them narrative, which was nice. |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6351 Posts |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jul 2016 : 20:49:11
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quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
quote:
Originally posted by Rymac
quote:
Originally posted by Barastir
After all, the blade would be selecting potential King Arthurs for the elves.
That had never occurred to me, although that's what Moonblades do. Taking that analogy further, perhaps a way to reawaken a Moonblade would be seek a sacred place of power, perhaps with the help of that place's guardian. In the obvious example, a lake and its Lady of the Lake.
I think it should be considered that as a group, the moonblades were selecting a king, but they were not individually seeking a king.
By that I mean, it has been established that some of the moonblades were not potential king swords - their wielders needed different skill sets and many if not most of these were not suited to be rulers.
Examples of this can be seen in the other Moonflower moonblades:
When Arilyn drew her blade it was not looking for a potential leader of the elves. It was looking to a defender of the elves. One who would fight for the various elven peoples wherever needed.
The other moonblade was wielded by a cleric in the book, so I'd assume it to have powers that lend themselves to magic and healing. When one drew it, they needed to be qualified for that role, not to lead all elves everywhere.
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BrianDavion
Seeker
71 Posts |
Posted - 17 Jul 2016 : 10:45:40
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quote:
Originally posted by ElaineCunningham
quote:
Originally posted by BrianDavion
I used to know an awesome site for constructing Sindarinn and Qunya elvish names, that unfortunatly seems to have been taken down. no FR doesn't use those languages but handy for creating names that at least SOUNDED right. pity it's gone. :(
By the way, on a seperate tangent, one question that's come to mind from this conversation and I'm curious as to the answer...
How do you intend for us to interpret the historical aspects of the Evermeet novel Elaine, should we view them as "the true events being witnessed" or "the product and writing of Danilo's research, and thus possiably prone to error, misinformation or simply embelishment?
When EVERMEET was being written, editor Brian Thomsen was very clear that he wanted to maintain "deniability" that would allow for future changes and flexible interpretations of the "facts" in the novel. So yes, I think it's best to regard it as Danilo's work, the product of the best information he could get his hands on. He submitted the manuscript to an elven sage for review, but the ms that became the novel is not an approved and revised version. I would say that he has most of the facts right, but he did not have all the facts. And even if he DID, I maintain that all history is fiction, in that facts are, of necessity, selected to shape a narrative. The narrative Danilo constructed was shaped by two things: His desire to give Arilyn the gift of her family story, and the invasion of Evermeet.
Also, some parts of the book were never intended to be taken as historical fact. Dan and I both considered the section on the gods to be mythology and metaphor, not a literal, factual recitation of what transpired in distant times and other planes of existence.
There are essentially three layers of storytelling happening in this novel. It was an ambitious experiment, one that succeeded in some ways, and fell short in others.
thanks Elaine. that was how I sort of interpreted it, and I'd been wondering for years if I was interpreting it right. for the record as a reader I thought it was a great success, it remains to this day one of my favorite FR novels. glad to know I was reading it right. |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 16 Aug 2016 : 16:19:47
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Reposting this response to a question on my Q&S thread about the status of the proposal moonblade project and Reclamation:
The status is "unchanged," which is to say no additional progress has occurred.
Most of my time these days is spent working on a website startup and a nonfiction book. My current fiction project is "Burning," a short story for the anthology HATH NO FURY. There's a Kickstarter going on now, and it's nearly funded.
But I do plan to move forward with a DM Guild project. I think the "Lost Children of Evermeet" might be my best best--it's the most focused and contained of the topics I've pondered--but the research necessary for that will also help with the moonblade project. I don't have a long term schedule, but here are August's tasks, FYI:
* Read through Evermeet, compile info on the Moonflower royal family
* Brief narrative outline for the life story of each of the royal offspring
* Brainstorm possible adventure hooks
The reception to a small project of this nature will give me more info about how the DM Guild works and help me better assess if I can afford to spend the time that a moonblade product would require. |
Edited by - ElaineCunningham on 16 Aug 2016 16:20:50 |
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1600 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2016 : 11:52:06
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| Wow, very nice! The LOST CHILDREN project also interests me, and any prospect of the MOONBLADES and RECLAMATION advancements, even if slow, makes me very happy! Go on, Mrs. Cunningham, keep us informed! |
"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."
The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood) |
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 17 Aug 2016 : 16:32:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Barastir
Wow, very nice! The LOST CHILDREN project also interests me, and any prospect of the MOONBLADES and RECLAMATION advancements, even if slow, makes me very happy! Go on, Mrs. Cunningham, keep us informed!
We'll see how "Lost Children" goes. As for moonblades and Reclamation, I'm sort of leaning to combining the two. That way, it would be a lore book with adventure hooks, with fiction for "flavor." Sure, most game products have a few paragraph--or as in the case of the Pathfinder Tales modules, a few pages--of fiction, but who's to say you could add a tad more? |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 27 Aug 2016 : 05:25:17
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I've had another thought about the fate aspect of the moonblades.
In your Evermeet novel, it is stated that the magic of the Moonblades would select the ruler after there were only so many left active and that that number had not yet been reached when Zoar was selected by counting blades.
So what if the big reveal of the kingsword has yet to happen?
What if it is another moonblade that is destined to rule and the elves just jumped the gun and will be put on the correct path some time soon?
Wouldn't it be a gas of one of the theoretically possible (debated above) gold elf moonblades or even the tainted Starym blade are the real king sword :P |
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Barastir
Master of Realmslore
Brazil
1600 Posts |
Posted - 28 Aug 2016 : 01:42:43
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quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
In your Evermeet novel, it is stated that the magic of the Moonblades would select the ruler after there were only so many left active and that that number had not yet been reached when Zoar was selected by counting blades.
Are you sure? I think when the king was chosen the numbers have been reached, no? |
"Goodness is not a natural state, but must be
fought for to be attained and maintained.
Lead by example.
Let your deeds speak your intentions.
Goodness radiated from the heart."
The Paladin's Virtues, excerpt from the "Quentin's Monograph"
(by Ed Greenwood) |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 28 Aug 2016 : 04:12:39
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Nope, they said :
"The young have so little regard for history," Lady Durothil said dryly. "Are you forgetting that the choice will be made, not by the council, but by the will of the gods, as interpreted by enchanted swords?"
"How are we to know that one of these lost swords might not have been meant to determine kingship?" Saida Evanara demanded. "How can such a decision be made now, when not all of the moonblades can be accounted for?"
"In that, we will have to trust the gods," Mi'tilarro Aelorothi said firmly. Such was the weight of the Gold elf's words that all protest fell silent, for the patriarch of the ancient Gold elf clan was also a high priest of Corellon Larethian.
"The Council of Elders honors all those who came this day to stand before the People and the gods of the Seldarine, and to dare the crucible of the moonblade's magic. No dishonor tarnishes the houses who were not selected, and a place in Arvandor awaits all those who had the courage to take up a moonblade. To those new moonfighters among us, we extend congratulations."
The Gold elf's gaze swept the small group of Moon elves before her. "The task ahead is more difficult still. There are yet five-and-twenty living moonblades. Legend says that when four-and-twenty remain, the king sword will announce itself and its wielder. We are one too many, and thus the royal family must be determined by its collective strength. Moonfighters, please gather by clans."
So - there were 25 present, plus other ones missing that could have been active still. And the magical call never happened. Maybe it still will.
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ElaineCunningham
Forgotten Realms Author
2396 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2016 : 14:33:50
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quote:
Originally posted by The Masked Mage
Nope, they said :
So - there were 25 present, plus other ones missing that could have been active still. And the magical call never happened. Maybe it still will.
I thought there were intriguing possibilities in this, but the point is now moot, as other writers have taken the moonblade lore in other directions.
Still, it would be interesting to know what might have happened when the count went down to 24... |
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The Masked Mage
Great Reader
USA
2420 Posts |
Posted - 29 Aug 2016 : 17:01:43
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The way I look at it, as far as lore goes in FR - it seems to be that a Johnny-come-lately lore trumps older lore situation. So, anything you decide to write on the topic and present as fact will trump whatever else has been done otherwise :P
I think it would be very interesting for a new ruler to be promoted by the moonblades and for Amlaruil to become a power behind the throne type of adviser/protector akin to the Srinshee. |
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Moonblades
