Author |
Topic |
Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6350 Posts |
Posted - 06 Dec 2019 : 10:14:06
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In the end I went for all monarchies in the moonshaes are a form of elected monarchy (except for the high king and now callidyrr which have hereditary monarchies).
So the clans elect a king from within a hereditary dynasty. This is just a formality however and in almost all instances the title passes from father to eldest child unless they are deemed wholly unsuitable (like Tristan due to his age and behaviour).
I figure the current and middle ages behaviour of Scottish nobility was all derived and inherited from exposure to England (via conquest or just imitation) so I ignored almost all of that and went back to a time without a hereditary monarchy where the clans owned the land. The king therefore had to keep the support of the clans or else risk being deposed and so a peripatetic monarchy helps a king do that (spending time with all clans).
The king is therefore more of a peacekeeper in early moonshae society. Centrally powerful kingdoms like callidyrr eroded the power of the clans completely and have all but removed them from society. Corwell is less centralised than callidyrr and so has turned the clans into a form of hereditary nobility (making them barons of a sort but the title is owned by the clan as a whole). While moray is a weakly centralised monarchy and so has remained in the same ancient clan structure of the moonshae isles (with a few exceptions).
I tried to make it as workable and fluid as possible within the bounds of history using what information was available on the moonshaes (callidyrr had Earl's so that were feudal nobility, corwell had clans voting for a king so they were at least part tanistry, moray had no castle so was not centralised at all).
I agree the opportunity for intrigue is greater in moray but I don't think the ffolk are like that. I'm not sure any of the clans want to be king really, it's hard work and they don't gain much more power than they have now. Intrigue is much more prevalent in callidyrr with the significant tethyrian heritage. |
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
2065 Posts |
Posted - 08 Dec 2019 : 13:32:33
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OK, here's a weird one ... not sure I should bring it up. Have you looked at Realmspace, pages 55-56? Curious about Omar McDauphin, now a stone giant? Curious about the origins of the Dark Moon assassins? Curious where Iron Keep Bay came from?
Inquiring minds should not want to know ... |
-- http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/ |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6350 Posts |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6350 Posts |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6350 Posts |
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cpthero2
Great Reader
USA
2285 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2020 : 20:32:35
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Eric,
I'm not much in inquiring mind as a water testing toe-tipper so that I can make that acrobatics check to spin out and live! haha
So...when do we get these amazing things? :)
Best regards,
quote: Originally posted by ericlboyd
OK, here's a weird one ... not sure I should bring it up. Have you looked at Realmspace, pages 55-56? Curious about Omar McDauphin, now a stone giant? Curious about the origins of the Dark Moon assassins? Curious where Iron Keep Bay came from?
Inquiring minds should not want to know ...
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Higher Atlar Spirit Soaring |
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cpthero2
Great Reader
USA
2285 Posts |
Posted - 24 Feb 2020 : 20:35:21
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Eric,
I'm not much in inquiring mind as a water testing toe-tipper so that I can make that acrobatics check to spin out and live! haha
So...when do we get these amazing things? :)
Best regards,
quote: Originally posted by ericlboyd
OK, here's a weird one ... not sure I should bring it up. Have you looked at Realmspace, pages 55-56? Curious about Omar McDauphin, now a stone giant? Curious about the origins of the Dark Moon assassins? Curious where Iron Keep Bay came from?
Inquiring minds should not want to know ...
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Higher Atlar Spirit Soaring |
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ElfBane
Learned Scribe
USA
275 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2020 : 16:23:41
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Will there ever be a dynastic listing of the monarchies of the Ffolk? Since the policy is to have them elective, then you would have to spend some time creating a nobility/clans/gentry that would comprise the pool of candidates.
And if we can't have them all, how about the line of the Corwell Kendricks, including the ones that were "passed over", if any. |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6350 Posts |
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ElfBane
Learned Scribe
USA
275 Posts |
Posted - 25 May 2020 : 18:18:16
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quote: Originally posted by Gary Dallison
When I say elective I mean elective from within the same dynasty (I think it's called tanist succession).
Yes, that system is called tanistry. |
Edited by - ElfBane on 25 May 2020 18:19:12 |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6350 Posts |
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cpthero2
Great Reader
USA
2285 Posts |
Posted - 14 Sep 2020 : 19:21:42
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Learned Scribe ElfBane,
It is odd, I must say. It's so spotty in that you can easily find Cymrych Hugh as first High King, and find a few others here and there, but nothing substantial, which is odd with the considerable history and seeming continuity of rulers.
Best regards,
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Higher Atlar Spirit Soaring |
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wildeman
Seeker
USA
75 Posts |
Posted - 02 Dec 2020 : 06:20:28
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Hello All, I'm hoping I can get some assistance figuring out the lineage of a couple of npcs. One is from the Carrathal fanily and the other is from the Kendrick family.
1411 DR (Year of the Wrathful Vizier) Crown Princess Cymidei Carrathal of the Moonshae Isles leads a massacre of all fey dwelling within Deachtere Wood southeast of Cantrev Dynnatt.
I can't figure out if Cymidei is Lionel's daughter or sister. I'm feeling like she is his daughter. Anyone know?
1408 DR (Year of the Solitary Cloister) In the Moonshae Isles, Lionel Carrathal claims the throne of Corwell in challenge to newly ascended High Queen Feithline Kendrick of Callidyrr.
Again, can't place the lineage of Feithline. Elder sister of Derid Kendrick?
If anyone can help it will be greatly appreciated. |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6641 Posts |
Posted - 02 Dec 2020 : 10:08:21
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The only person who can help is Brian R James, author of GHotR, who decided to continue the history of the Moonshaes post-Spellplague on the WotC forums (now defunct). This was fanlore and in no way official. It has not been revisited since and Brian has moved away from the Realms. I suggest you make some stuff up.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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wildeman
Seeker
USA
75 Posts |
Posted - 02 Dec 2020 : 21:42:27
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George, Thanks for the update. I PMed BRJ concerning this hoping to get some clarification, but have received no response.
I guess I will do my best to place the two into their respective timelines/lineages... they aren't really critical so much as loose ends I was trying to tie up.
Anyway. Thanks for the help. |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6350 Posts |
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wildeman
Seeker
USA
75 Posts |
Posted - 03 Dec 2020 : 07:31:16
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George, Btw, you are incorrect in saying BRJ is the only person who could help. Your info was actually very helpful and informative. Plus, after knowing what you shared, I feel more at ease drawing my own conclusions and creating my own material from this older lore/fan fiction. So again, thank you for your assistance.
Hey Gary,
In 1408 DR Lionel Carrathal challenges the Kendrick's by claiming the throne of Corwell... iirc, after Alicia's death and Feithline's ascension as High Queen... but he does it from the family holdings in Amn. Lionel was born in 1355 DR... making him 53 years of age in 1408 DR. If Lionel claims the crown of Corwell in 1408 DR and then Cymidei massacres the fey in 1411 DR, I feel like the title of "Crown Princess" refers to the throne of Caer Corwell and that she is Lionel's daughter.
Also, in 1385 DR Lionel is supposed to have a mercenary force he intends to use to take the crown of the Moonshaes from the Kendrick family. Then the Spellplague happens and he spends the next two decades rebuilding. So the 1385 DR to 1408 DR time frame works okay in getting him and his to Corwell. So I could make Cymidei Carrathal's date of birth 1391 DR, making her 19 years of age in 1411 DR when she orders the fey massacre.
Which brings to mind the question of WHY did she lead a force that massacred the fey living in Deachtere Wood? The Wood is very near Cantrev Dynnatt. I've been thinking that there might have been a romantic connection between Cymidei and the Laird/Son of the Laird of Cantrev Dynnatt. This romantic lead runs afoul of some sort of fey creature while hunting in Deachtere Wood. The death/horrible maiming and disfigurement of her beloved sends Cymidei into a murderous rage leading her to do the terrible deed. And this leads into Lady Ordalf of Sarifal ordering all non fey to be driven from Gwynneth. Cymidei Carrathal, knowing she is in great danger, leaves the Moonshaes and returns to her family's modest holdings in Amn.
Cymidei's son (needs a name... something from the Dynnatt family), born in 1422 DR, will have a son, Llyr Carrathal (working name for the moment), in 1447 DR. This should, if I have this correct, brings me up to the most current in the lineage of Carrathal. Llyr Carrathal would be 43 years of age in 1493 DR.
One last note on the Carrathal family line, in 1413 DR Lionel Carrathal attempts to flee Caer Corwell, but his ship is sunk in the Corwell Firth by a Leviathan... all hands lost.
I did a keyword search of GHotR for Carrathal and got zero hits, so I'm not sure. Dragon Magazine #362 has this...
"Reginald 1312 1332/1346 Third son of Alec IV; murdered by the traitorous black wizard Cyndre.
Brynth* 1334 -- Bastard son of Reginald; raised in Amn with his birthmother; slain by wererats in 1371.
Lionel* 1355 -- Grandson of Reginald; son of Brynth.
*Did not rule; marked for line of succession."
I don't have a canonical source for High Queen Alicia's death. One source I've been using, a web site called History of the Forgotten Realms, places her death about 1407 DR. So that would make High King Derid over 86 years of age in 1493 DR if he were her son.
Queen Alicia Kendrick of the Moonshae Isles weds Keane in 1369 DR. High King Keane dies in 1373 DR. So, if they have a daughter, Feithline, she would need to be born in 1372 DR. This would make her 35-36 years of age when she ascends the throne of the High Queen in 1407-8 DR.
At this point it looks like I'm going to need to create a son for Feithline who would be the father of Derid Kendrick... Derid being born in 1428 DR to be 65 years of age in 1493 DR.
Well, I'm not sure if that was worth the effort, but it at least helped me to get my thoughts down on the "page" as it were. If anyone has a better idea I'm certainly open. Thanks! |
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ElfBane
Learned Scribe
USA
275 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2021 : 10:12:07
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Hello all! I can find when the Llewer Elves settled Gwynneth (-9800 DR), but does anyone know when humans arrived? Thanks! |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6350 Posts |
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ElfBane
Learned Scribe
USA
275 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2021 : 14:56:24
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Thank you again Dazzler. I'll use the -2000 DR,,, I need more time to flesh out the scenario. |
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ElfBane
Learned Scribe
USA
275 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jan 2021 : 15:14:24
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BTW, what humans, and where are they coming from, do you have invading Gwynneth in the -2000DR time period? |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6350 Posts |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6350 Posts |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6641 Posts |
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
2065 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2021 : 16:02:14
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I think the earliest the Northuir (Northmen) should explore the northern Moonshaes is circa -1000 DR, as that is roughly when they begin settling the other northern isles of the Trackless Sea. (Realistically, it should be a little later than that, as other islands would have been settled first.)
From Dragon #362, with tweaks by me.
c. –1000 For the next several centuries, the Ruathens of Ruathym colonize the Gull Rocks, Gundarlun, Mintarn, the Purple Rocks, the Teeth, Tuern (a.k.a., Uttersea), Umukek, the Wave Rocks, and the Whalebones. In time these Ruathen seafarers become known as the Northuir (Northmen). Thinking them cursed, the Northuir stay clear of the Moonshae Isles and its mischievous fey inhabitants.
256 Year of the Thousand Snows: Illuskan sailors from the island nations of Tuern and Gundarlun make landfall on the Moonshae Islands, finding a collection of squabbling kingdoms. The Ffolk of the Moonshaes concede the northern isles to Northuir (Northmen) invaders from the island nations of Tuern and Gundarlun. Over the next couple centuries, Ffolk settlements throughout the Moonshaes suffer seasonal attacks from the barbaric Northmen.
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-- http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/ |
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TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore
USA
1289 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2021 : 16:44:30
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Were there any more of those GHotR articles written? The wiki only list the Moonshaes one. |
"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."
My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6350 Posts |
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ericlboyd
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
2065 Posts |
Posted - 05 Apr 2021 : 23:09:38
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quote: Originally posted by Gary Dallison
Surely the sailors from Tuern and Gundarlun cannot be Illuskan and Northuir.
I think I posted this earlier, but here's how I'm differentiating Ruathen from Northuir from Illuskan.
Ruathen is the original ethnic group on Ruathym. Northuir is the name of that same ethnic group after they settle the Trackless Sea. Illuskan is the name of that ethnic group after they merge with the Netherese.
--Eric
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-- http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/ |
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Baltas
Senior Scribe
Poland
955 Posts |
Posted - 27 Apr 2022 : 13:28:31
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On the LordGosumba's recent podcast, (along with a ton of other interesting information) Eric Menge revealed some very interesting information on (his and Baldman Games take in their products about) Moonshae Isles and spectcially the Earthmother: https://www.twitch.tv/videos/1466174664?t=1h46m9s https://youtu.be/72axSxslI9M?t=6405
In short - the Earthmother started out as a LeShay (or rather Primal Elf) named Cymry, with Ordalf being her sister who wa close to her. Although you there both are children of Corellon (born of his blood, as other first elves. During the war between Corellon and Lolth, she decided to not support either site, and decided to though like Corellon before, become a creator herself, and merged with or became the Moonshae Isles - and the Primal Spirit embodying them. |
Edited by - Baltas on 27 Apr 2022 13:44:16 |
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader
United Kingdom
6350 Posts |
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