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Originally posted by Markustay

It sounds more to me like a very generic statement regarding the Realms - someone, at some point in time, was trying to build an empire... EVRYWHERE.

Could have been any number of human civilizations (The Shoon Empire {Calimshan} was that far north), or even a short-lived kingdom (like that king who built the Tethir Road... which makes absolutely NO SENSE on the 3e maps). More likely it was the Elves or dwarves, or both together (like Illefarn). Or it could go back even further to the time of the Crown Wars.

If it did have to do with Baldur's Gate, I would assume it was from a time before the current city (I don't know much of its history, sadly - 'urban' stuff doesn't interest me as much).

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Originally posted by hashimashadoo

AHA! I knew I'd seen something related to this, I just couldn't remember where.

Cloak and Dagger p68 mentions that the trade routes linking Amn and Tethyr with Baldur's Gate and Waterdeep were built circa 1182 DR and that the Knights of the Shield are believed to have had a hand in their construction.

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Originally posted by Markustay

There was actually a helluva lot more then that Dazzlerdal. Thats just 'a good week' in The North.

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Originally posted by hashimashadoo

AHA! I knew I'd seen something related to this, I just couldn't remember where.

Cloak and Dagger p68 mentions that the trade routes linking Amn and Tethyr with Baldur's Gate and Waterdeep were built circa 1182 DR and that the Knights of the Shield are believed to have had a hand in their construction.

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I would say (if it was my call) that the Knights of the shield (and others?) may have made extensive repairs on ancient roads that were already there. They were probably really bad for quite some time - perhaps even buried (or torn up?) in a lot of places. I would say the very first roads (in recorded history) were built by dwarves, since they seem to have built so many enormous bridges over all the rivers (because why build engineering marvels like them if you had no roads going to and from them? Hmmmmm?)

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Originally posted by dazzlerdal

An even better way to explain discrepancies is to ignore 4e, its timeline, and the spellplague altogether (sorry its the old grognard in me fighting his way out again)



I'm with Markustay, the dwarf made roads in the Western Heartlands I would imagine are north of the Winding River or River Chionthar and around the Badlands area. We've got Ammarindar, Oghrann, and dwarven duchies from Illefarn, Delimbiyran etc as well as dwarven holds in the High Moor. I havent found any ancient dwarf holds in the Greenfields yet.

There is some evidence that in ages prior following the destruction of Keltormir as a forest, that the lands north of Amn were occupied by giants for some time before many of their number fell to Shanatar (depending upon how you read the history either the half the entire giant kingdom fell, or only half of the giants south of the cloudpeaks).

After that the history is relatively undocumented in the area but pockets of giants persisted in the Sunset Mountain region and the Talfir humans seem to have had a growing presence in the Western Heartlands for a while until Netheril ended and refugees swamped the region ushering a new age of human dominance in the region and probably resulted in the empire building mentioned at the start.

There are going to be plenty of trails abandoned rediscovered rebuilt etc. Netheril, Shoon, Amn, Illefarn, Athalantar, Tethyr Delimbiyran, Cormyr, Waterdeep. Over the ages all those major nations and settlements are going to be trading with each other and at least a portion of it is going to be overland and passing through the Western Heartlands region.

I dont think the giants will have bothered with roads (they can just walk over any obstacles). The elves dont seem the kind to have built roads through their forests (they probably just used well worn trails). The first roads were probably built by humans, possibly around the time of Netheril, and they might have been little more than trails (only the less affluent would use something as mediocre as a road).

The Empire of Ebenfar might have tried road building, if only to move its armies more quickly (their positioning might not have been brilliant as a result). But real well made and maintained trade roads probably didnt exist until after the years of conflict so i'm thinking from 376 DR onwards.

But thats just my two cents

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