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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
 Posted - 11 Jul 2013 : 19:19:49
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quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
Yes, all the gods will be on the table, but from what I've understood it'll be in the sense that ''hey, you know what? We won't give any info about who's there and who's not. Sort it by yourself''. No thanks, I've already done that on my own, w/o asking anyone for the permission to do it (besides, what's the point of paying for lack of info? And there also are people who don't/can't play, or the ones who care about the setting itself, unrelatedly with the game).
Personally, I want to see how the story of Eilistraee, Vhaeraun and all the dark elves who -in their own different ways- fight to set their people free continues, but I don't believe that WotC likes this idea of drow. I liked what the authors of the latest Menzoberranzan sourcebook did, and it grated my nerves to see that content thrown away. Instead we're still stuck with that nonsensical conclusion about ''the unwilling drow being cast down''....
PS: Weren't Eilistraee and Vhaeraun created by Ed under commission of TSR?
Hear, hear! I agree. I've played D&D a few times, but I mainly read the novels, and I care about the setting. I realize the novels come second to the game, but I think enough people still read them (as evidenced by this site), that content matters. Plus, if I was a cleric, I'd like to know that the power I call upon comes from my and not from another who just might be my deity. I understand WotC is trying to "free it up" to give players more options, but obviously, players have been doing that for years, anyway. If they're going to bring back the gods, they might a well show it. |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2013 : 13:17:19
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I've got kind of a weird way of looking at things - when it comes to 'the gods', I say "the more, the merrier". However, at the same time (and known only to me), I think most of them are just aliases for the others. So while I have expanded my pantheon exponentially, I have also reduced it at the same time (but only within my head - its not something players would know, or the people of my world). So long as everyone thinks they are dealing with a wide variety of different gods, then thats how it is.
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
While I do like the idea of importing Cheliax (or at least its government structure) into the Realms, I have to wonder about one thing with this idea of yours: What is Waterdeep doing interfering with matters half a continent away from them? It'd make a lot more sense for Cormyr to be doing that, even though the distance still makes it a stretch... The Black Network would be a better candidate; they're a lot closer and have a history of interference.
I guess you haven't been following some of my other comments about my FR, spread throughout the forums. I moved the Swordcoast over to the Unapproachable East (swapped it, actually - Aglarond and the other stuff is over on the west coast now).
You can see a WIP of my world HERE.
Note I also moved Dambrath to the north shore of The Moonsea... right near Luskan and Mulmaster. The 'People of the Black Sails' have become Drow - Such fun!  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Edited by - Markustay on 12 Jul 2013 13:24:11 |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3802 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2013 : 14:26:12
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quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I've got kind of a weird way of looking at things - when it comes to 'the gods', I say "the more, the merrier". However, at the same time (and known only to me), I think most of them are just aliases for the others. So while I have expanded my pantheon exponentially, I have also reduced it at the same time (but only within my head - its not something players would know, or the people of my world). So long as everyone thinks they are dealing with a wide variety of different gods, then thats how it is.
This is fine for DMs dealing with their campaign. However when it comes to the published setting, if the matter allows or encourages it (and this drow pantheon thing totally does, especially considering how they handled it...), the developers should expand on it, tell how the story goes on, give details and not just say ''meh, maybe they're back, maybe they're not''.
The point of buying books for stories and lore is -ofc- getting all of that, but with this kind of approach I feel like getting told ''LOL, deal with it yourself. Now pay us for reminding you that it is possible to customize things in your homebrew''. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 12 Jul 2013 14:26:47 |
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Markustay
Realms Explorer extraordinaire
USA
15724 Posts |
Posted - 12 Jul 2013 : 15:38:57
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Absolutely I agree with you - thats why I have completely divorced myself from canon at this point. I can thank 4e for being my "12 step program".
"Hello, my name is Mark, and I am a Realmsaholic"
And I've been sober for about 5 years now. 
Depending upon what they do with the Realms in 5e, I may or may not buy anymore realms novels, but I will still be buying sourcebooks, because I can harvest ideas from them for my own campaigns/settings. Unfortunately for many of the novel/story fans, I really don't think they are going to be 'nailing down' the specifics of which deities are 'dead or alive'. I have a feeling it will be more like, "here are the gods that are worshiped in the Realms" presentation (which really has little to do with how active/alive those beings really are).
On the other hand, I could be entirely wrong - they seem to be wanting to detail the outer planes again, and with The Sundering resetting the pantheon, I guess anything is possible.  |
"I have never in my life learned anything from any man who agreed with me" --- Dudley Field Malone
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Shere Khan
Acolyte
36 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jul 2013 : 05:20:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
quote:
Originally posted by Markustay
I've got kind of a weird way of looking at things - when it comes to 'the gods', I say "the more, the merrier". However, at the same time (and known only to me), I think most of them are just aliases for the others. So while I have expanded my pantheon exponentially, I have also reduced it at the same time (but only within my head - its not something players would know, or the people of my world). So long as everyone thinks they are dealing with a wide variety of different gods, then thats how it is.
This is fine for DMs dealing with their campaign. However when it comes to the published setting, if the matter allows or encourages it (and this drow pantheon thing totally does, especially considering how they handled it...), the developers should expand on it, tell how the story goes on, give details and not just say ''meh, maybe they're back, maybe they're not''.
The point of buying books for stories and lore is -ofc- getting all of that, but with this kind of approach I feel like getting told ''LOL, deal with it yourself. Now pay us for reminding you that it is possible to customize things in your homebrew''.
You've hit the nail squarely on the head. I feel exactly the same way, and that's why I rarely buy their products any more. You'd think they'd have learned their lesson by now, but it unfortunately appears that they haven't. |
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Lothlos
Learned Scribe
USA
111 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jul 2013 : 20:52:33
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I have to say that The Brotherhood of the Griffon and The Haunted Lands got me excited about D&D and Forgotten Realms again.
So I got back into it only to find out Halaster my favorite Evil Mage was dead 'Expedition to Undermountain'; Eilistraee, Vhaeraun, & the rest of the Drow pantheon dead with the exception of Lolth; Qilue Veladorn beheaded; the Promenade almost destroyed; and the Spellplague. As I began catching up on the novels I also find Cadderly as good as dead and the Spirit Soaring in ruins; Drizzt and Catti-brie sort of dead; Manshoon weakened; Mystara dead again, ect... The Realms that I loved, were almost totally unrecognizable just as I was starting to get excited again. The flavor of the 2e and 3.0-3.5 Realms gone.
Now I have some hope that the Sundering will bring back some of that flavor. I bought and have really enjoyed Ed Greenwood Presents: Elminster's Forgotten Realms and I will buy the rest of the Brotherhood of the Griffon books, but if the 'power's that be' want one dimensional evil drow, in a world that is totally unrecognizable as the Realms I love there will be no need to buy the products.
It would seem to me in an edition whose strong point is supposed to be options that WOTC should make new lore that they are not planning to publish elsewhere available in web enhancements that are optional. |
The Road goes ever on and on
Down from the door where it began.
Now far ahead the Road has gone,
And I must follow, if I can,
Pursuing it with eager feet,
Until it joins some larger way
Where many paths and errands meet.
And whither then? I cannot say.
-J.R.R. Tolkien
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Edited by - Lothlos on 23 Jul 2013 21:01:28 |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3802 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jul 2013 : 21:01:15
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I wouldn't expect free stuff from any corporate, tbh. That's why I made that plea for a DDI article with the material and art they already own and ready to be put in article format.
Considering that -AFAIK- DDI is getting less and less filled with every issue (so, it probably isn't a size problem) and that in about 1 year from the release of the book nothing has happened, I'd conclude that they don't really care about this side of the drow. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
Edited by - Irennan on 23 Jul 2013 21:05:08 |
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Lothlos
Learned Scribe
USA
111 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2013 : 17:19:34
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For clarification Optional Web Enhancements need not be free. They could release them for D&D Insiders to add more value or offer material as pdf's where they combine items cut from several works.
I was just thinking of the delivery system being in the form of a downloadable pdf file.
I agree we should not expect free |
The Road goes ever on and on
Down from the door where it began.
Now far ahead the Road has gone,
And I must follow, if I can,
Pursuing it with eager feet,
Until it joins some larger way
Where many paths and errands meet.
And whither then? I cannot say.
-J.R.R. Tolkien
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2013 : 19:09:35
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quote:
Originally posted by Lothlos
For clarification Optional Web Enhancements need not be free. They could release them for D&D Insiders to add more value or offer material as pdf's where they combine items cut from several works.
I was just thinking of the delivery system being in the form of a downloadable pdf file.
I agree we should not expect free
I dunno, WotC has a long history of free web enhancements. Part of the point of the web enhancement is drumming up additional interest for the sourcebook, too -- so it gives people who have the sourcebook more material and thus makes them happy, and it encourages others to buy the sourcebook, which makes WotC happy. Win-win. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3802 Posts |
Posted - 25 Jul 2013 : 19:34:35
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| Yeah, true. But I wouldn't expect that now, when they charge the same amount of money for less and less material in DDI (-AFAIK-). |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
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Drustan Dwnhaedan
Learned Scribe
USA
324 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2013 : 07:06:50
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| Just found this topic while I was poking around. So, any word on WotC's final decision? Depending on what the answer is, I may continue playing FR, or just give up and try to wipe the entire setting from my mind. Heh. Guess I must look pretty pathetic, getting so upset over what happened to a fictional character and her goddess,huh? (At least that's what most of my gaming group believes. They may well be right.) |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3802 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2013 : 09:20:14
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No, no words about it yet (AFAIK).
Tell your gaming group that many people get warmed up/upset about non concrete stuff (and not exclusively fictional: just take a look at religions...).
Also, why give up FR? Just ignore the lore from WotC that you dislike. As long as we're talking about playing D&D (or w/e), this really is a non issue (unles your DM is obsessed with canon). The probelm comes up when you want to read new, actually impactful stories about removed setting elements. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
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Drustan Dwnhaedan
Learned Scribe
USA
324 Posts |
Posted - 07 Sep 2013 : 20:00:31
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quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
No, no words about it yet (AFAIK).
Tell your gaming group that many people get warmed up/upset about non concrete stuff (and not exclusively fictional: just take a look at religions...).
Also, why give up FR? Just ignore the lore from WotC that you dislike. As long as we're talking about playing D&D (or w/e), this really is a non issue (unles your DM is obsessed with canon). The probelm comes up when you want to read new, actually impactful stories about removed setting elements.
Thank you, Irennan, for answering my question, and for both pieces of advice. No matter what I might say, or what happens canonically, I know I could never give up playing Forgotten Realms; there's just so much I love about it! And no, my DM isn't obsessed with canon. He keeps making his own personal changes to the Realms, most notably characters appearing in locations that conflict with where they were in canon. (Especially Olive Ruskettle, who constantly turns up as a running gag to remind me of an event that is lovingly remembered amongst my group as, "The Halfling Incident". *embarrassed cough*) |
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Zireael
Master of Realmslore
Poland
1190 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2013 : 10:13:07
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quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
I wouldn't expect free stuff from any corporate, tbh. That's why I made that plea for a DDI article with the material and art they already own and ready to be put in article format.
Considering that -AFAIK- DDI is getting less and less filled with every issue (so, it probably isn't a size problem) and that in about 1 year from the release of the book nothing has happened, I'd conclude that they don't really care about this side of the drow.
Alas, that's probably true. |
SiNafay Vrinn, the daughter of Lloth, from Ched Nasad!
http://zireael07.wordpress.com/ |
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Drustan Dwnhaedan
Learned Scribe
USA
324 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2013 : 02:32:26
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quote:
Originally posted by Zireael
quote:
Originally posted by Irennan
I wouldn't expect free stuff from any corporate, tbh. That's why I made that plea for a DDI article with the material and art they already own and ready to be put in article format.
Considering that -AFAIK- DDI is getting less and less filled with every issue (so, it probably isn't a size problem) and that in about 1 year from the release of the book nothing has happened, I'd conclude that they don't really care about this side of the drow.
Alas, that's probably true.
... *BLEEP!* Sorry, seeing this has ticked me off again. Ugh, now I've got convince myself that 'what happens canonically shouldn't effect my game' all over again. What's worse is I'm reminded just how much I want Eilistraee to return (and have to deal with those feelings again,too). |
Edited by - Drustan Dwnhaedan on 10 Sep 2013 02:33:58 |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2013 : 03:13:01
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| Don't worry, DD, you aren't alone in your wishes. That's why this is such a hot topic |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3802 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2013 : 07:44:29
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quote:
Originally posted by Drustan Dwnhaedan
Ugh, now I've got convince myself that 'what happens canonically shouldn't effect my game' all over again.
Well, just consider that LP lore (not judging the novels themselves) dons't bring any depth or hooks that you couldn't have before (no, brownies is not a valid plot hook, as normal drow could have gone and started rebuilding Miyeritar w/o changing skin color) while sucking out a lot of it, and that the storyline is kinda nonsensical, if we consider how pointless and even ooc the actions and choices of some deities are (not to mention the premise to the whole event).
There, your job just got easier, as you're not missing out on anything by leaving this canon out of your Realms. |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
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Drustan Dwnhaedan
Learned Scribe
USA
324 Posts |
Posted - 10 Sep 2013 : 22:19:49
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@CorellonsDevout:
It is nice to be able to communicate with others who feel the same as me. 
@Irennan:
*breathes deeply* Ah, much better. Thank you again, Irennan, that's put thing's back into perspective for me. It also occurred to me that I can always include Eilistraee in my own homebrew D&D world, in addition to my FR campaign.(What's really great about the former is that, as it is my world, I can have the canon events of the world be whatever I decide they are, and not have to worry about what anybody says. BWA-HA-HA-HA! I'm sorry, I had to get that out of my system.) |
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CorellonsDevout
Great Reader
USA
2708 Posts |
Posted - 11 Sep 2013 : 03:15:53
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| Of course E and V can be used in your own games. In a roleplay (it's not D&D, it's through writing) I do with a friend, the two deities are alive and very active. But it was still be nice to see them in FR again. |
Sweet water and light laughter |
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Drustan Dwnhaedan
Learned Scribe
USA
324 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2013 : 06:46:20
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Ooh, I fully intend to ! I'm actually going to use the entire drow pantheon, including... um... I'm sorry, what was the name of the one goddess of rogues and assassins? She's not listed in any of the FR books I own, but I've seen her name mentioned occasionally in some of the other threads. Can anyone help me out here? |
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3802 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2013 : 09:39:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Drustan Dwnhaedan
Ooh, I fully intend to! I'm actually going to use the entire drow pantheon, including... um... I'm sorry, what was the name of the one goddess of rogues and assassins? She's not listed in any of the FR books I own, but I've seen her name mentioned occasionally in some of the other threads. Can anyone help me out here?
Do you mean Zinzerena? |
Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
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Drustan Dwnhaedan
Learned Scribe
USA
324 Posts |
Posted - 12 Sep 2013 : 21:12:23
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| Yep! I'm pretty sure that's who I was thinking of (the name Zinzerena does look familiar). Unless there are other drow deities that aren't mentioned in the FR books, and if there are, could someone please let me know? And thanks once again, Irennan (I hope you're not too annoyed with all my nonsense). |
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froglegg
Learned Scribe
317 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2013 : 00:47:01
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Just like back in the day I was saying I want my MTV!
Now I want my Eilistraee!
John |
Long live Alias and Dragonbait! Kate Novak and Jeff Grubb the Realms need you more then ever!
On my word as a sage nothing within these pages is false, but not all of it may prove to be true. - Elminster of Shadowdale
The Old Grey Box gets better with age! |
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hashimashadoo
Master of Realmslore
United Kingdom
1150 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2013 : 03:36:52
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| Zinzerena was the only drow deity who didn't get much coverage in the Realms (Lolth pretends to be her after she was killed shortly after the ToT). There's also Malyk, who was a drow before his apotheosis but is actually an aspect of Talos. |
When life turns it's back on you...sneak attack for extra damage.
Head admin of the FR wiki:
https://forgottenrealms.fandom.com/ |
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Drustan Dwnhaedan
Learned Scribe
USA
324 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2013 : 17:33:19
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I wish you (or someone) had mentioned Malyk earlier. Nobody responded to my last post, so I went ahead and 'completed' my world's drow pantheon; the seven who I already knew existed (Eilistraee, Ghaunadaur, Kiaransalee, Lloth, Selvetarm, Vhaeraun, and Zinzerena), plus five of my own creation. Now, if I want include Malyk (doubtful, sense he's an aspect of Talos), I'll have to create two more deities for my world*.
*I'd explain this (and initially tried to), but the explanation is rather long and complicated (and I wound up deleting it, because I ran out of space). The simplest explanation I can give is that the pantheons of all the major races of my world consist of three (or multiples thereof) deities.
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Irennan
Great Reader
Italy
3802 Posts |
Posted - 17 Dec 2014 : 13:02:29
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From Ed:
quote:
I have written new lore about the Dark Dancer recently, but I’m afraid how and when you’ll see it is up to Wizards of the Coast, and I can’t legally reveal more. I would not expect to see it as part of this or the next story, if that helps.
http://theedverse.com/#comment-1746433518
IMO the Elemental Evil story looked like a good opportunity to reveal Eilistraee's return, given the original role of the Promenade and that Ghaunadaur is the realmsian Elemental Evil. That is unless they don't plan on using Ghaunadaur in their Elemental Evil plot...
Lets just hope that they won't left this lore to collect dust on the shelves like the info about E&V that should have been in the Menzo book.
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Mathematics is the art of giving the same name to different things. |
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New lore about Eilistraee and Vhaeraun
