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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
 Posted - 01 Jan 2006 : 02:45:16
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Is it just me or are there reasons to be worried here?
A new player is joining my campaign with the subject character, and I am starting to shake in my DM boots... a halfling that can telepathically chat with anyone speaking Common, with fireballs... The party is currently going through the Sons of Gruumsh adventure: I was worried the module would be tough, them being only four adventurers, but now one additional players with fireballs, and him playing a mind chatting halfling... [shudders] I don't think the orcs stand a chance anymore...
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4686 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jan 2006 : 03:47:22
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What game rules are you using to allow a telepathic halfling to exist at all? What levels are you playing? Is that cast fireballs at will or as a Wiz or Sor needing spell slots?
Even psionics , last time I checked, had to overcome a save to be able to communicate with the mind of another or even to conect to thoughts of another. With all the improvements that have been offered I suspose the character might be able to have the abilities, however it sounds to me like somebody is not only power gaming but also ignoring rules of limitation.
In the end you as DM get to say what works, what rules apply. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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KnightErrantJR
Great Reader
USA
5402 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jan 2006 : 03:58:27
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| Actually, that is just a natural ability of Ghostwise halflings, being able to communicate with those they know ( in line of sight, if I remember correctly ), in a language they both know. It isn't so much a full blown psionic ability as a "he can speak with his allies silently as long as they are nearby" kind of thing. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4686 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jan 2006 : 04:07:56
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" These strange and isolative halflings have a very unique ability – they can speak without sound to a fellow Ghostwise who is around 20 feet away or closer. This is a kind of telepathic communication, and can only operate on a one to one basis. As a result of this they have very close and tight knit communities. "
and not only explaining able to communicate with any that speak common, it does not explain throwing fireballs. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Chosen of Bane
Senior Scribe
USA
552 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jan 2006 : 04:17:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
and not only explaining able to communicate with any that speak common, it does not explain throwing fireballs.
I'm guessing the 5 levels of Wizard listed in the subject of this thread explain the ability to throw fireballs. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4686 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jan 2006 : 04:23:53
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| *nods* One or perhaps two fireballs per day at level 5 if Wiz has high enough Int (I missed that reference). |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jan 2006 : 08:43:57
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| Well, you could limit it a bit by either requiring the communication to use a move action, or by saying a degree of concentration is required... |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jan 2006 : 17:14:03
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Page 18 of the FRCS states: (bold/underlined sections highlighted by me for emphasis)
"Speak without Sound (Su): A ghostwise halfling, unlike other halflings, can communicate telepathically with any creature within 20 feet, just as if speaking to him or her. The halfling can only speak and listen to one person at a time, and he must share a common language with the person or creature he speaks to telepathically, or the telepathic link fails."
Note: there are no mention of any saving throw here... so a ghostwise halfling, provided he/she sneaks 20 feet away from a foe, could have a ball here, especially if he has ranks in Perform: Act or Bluff... |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4686 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jan 2006 : 17:48:23
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| Well what I would do is look at Telepathic Bond for guidence and follow that guideline. " You forge a telepathic bond among yourself and a number of willing creatures, each of which must have an Intelligence score of 3 or higher." Perhaps it might need to be a house rule, but at least would limit communcation with unwilling creatures. Speak without Sound is basically a spell-like effect so it also might be considered proper that a saving throw applies for unwilling targets, though the first option makes more sense to me. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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scererar
Master of Realmslore
USA
1618 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jan 2006 : 18:37:29
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| I agree that the entry in FRCS is not detailed out in game mechanics, But I would stick to what is stated. I don't see too big of an issue gamewise here. I do however see a HUGE roleplaying opportunity. |
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Thelonius
Senior Scribe
Spain
730 Posts |
Posted - 01 Jan 2006 : 20:35:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Well, you could limit it a bit by either requiring the communication to use a move action, or by saying a degree of concentration is required...
Or by rolling a difficulty dice... depending of the int. and the will of the other one. You know there are people more strong minded that others, a low minded halfling trying to chat with an strongminded dwarf while make difficult to the halfling to enter in the dwarf's mind... |
"If you are to truly understand, then you will need the contrast, not adherence to a single ideal." - Kreia
"I THINK I JUST HAD ANOTHER NEAR-RINCEWIND EXPERIENCE"- Discworld's Death frustrated after Rincewind scapes his grasp... again.
"I am death, come for thee" - Nimbul, from Baldur's Gate I just before being badly spanked
Sapientia sola libertas est |
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Crust
Learned Scribe
USA
273 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jan 2006 : 03:33:05
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Unless he's making use of the Craft Wand feat, your halfling won't be ruining much at 5th level.
And the telepathy ability isn't a big deal. I DMed a ghostwise halfling barbarian/druid once, and the joke at the table was that his voice (when he did make utterances or casts spells) was high, squeaky, and very faint. His mental voice was the deep, rich voice of Barry White.  |
"That's right, hurl back views that force ye to think by name-calling - 'tis the grand old tradition, let it not down! Anything to keep from having to think, or - Mystra forfend - change thy own views!"
Narnra glowered at her father. "Just how am I to learn how to think? By being taught by you?"
"Some folk in the Realms would give their lives for the chance to learn at my feet," Elminster said mildly. "Several already have."
~from Elminster's Daughter, Ed Greenwood |
Edited by - Crust on 02 Jan 2006 03:34:59 |
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Purple Dragon Knight
Master of Realmslore
Canada
1796 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jan 2006 : 05:53:27
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LOL! good one Crust! :) I'll suggest the Barry White option to our new player! :)
As for Kentinal's suggestions:quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
Well what I would do is look at Telepathic Bond for guidence and follow that guideline. " You forge a telepathic bond among yourself and a number of willing creatures, each of which must have an Intelligence score of 3 or higher." Perhaps it might need to be a house rule, but at least would limit communcation with unwilling creatures. Speak without Sound is basically a spell-like effect so it also might be considered proper that a saving throw applies for unwilling targets, though the first option makes more sense to me.
The problem I have with a saving throw here is that the power is harmless, and that it is a Supernatural ability, not a Spell-like ability. In game terms, all this power could do is alert a creature that the ghostwise halfling is there, therefore negating the ghostwise halfling's round of surprise and putting the creature in 'ready' mode...
I would however allow this power to be used in conjunction with illusion spells and as a conductor for the intimidate skill... (i.e. perhaps offering a penalty to the save vs. illusion provided the halfling succeeds on bluff, intimidate, etc.) |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jan 2006 : 06:11:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Purple Dragon Knight
The problem I have with a saving throw here is that the power is harmless, and that it is a Supernatural ability, not a Spell-like ability. In game terms, all this power could do is alert a creature that the ghostwise halfling is there, therefore negating the ghostwise halfling's round of surprise and putting the creature in 'ready' mode...
I don't know if I'd call it "harmless"... Sure, it doesn't cause any damage, but a ghostwise halfling could use this ability to be at the center of a small but silent communications network. Despite the short range, the ability to silently communicate and share information and orders could offer a great tactical advantage. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4686 Posts |
Posted - 02 Jan 2006 : 11:20:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Purple Dragon Knight
The problem I have with a saving throw here is that the power is harmless, and that it is a Supernatural ability, not a Spell-like ability. In game terms, all this power could do is alert a creature that the ghostwise halfling is there, therefore negating the ghostwise halfling's round of surprise and putting the creature in 'ready' mode...
I would however allow this power to be used in conjunction with illusion spells and as a conductor for the intimidate skill... (i.e. perhaps offering a penalty to the save vs. illusion provided the halfling succeeds on bluff, intimidate, etc.)
Many SU powers are spell-like except they ignore SR, if any. To allow the ability to be used on unwilling targets would clearly be simalar to illusion. *You hear a voice in your head that tells you to look North* or *You start hearing a voice in your head making you wonder if you are going crazy* etc. Hearing a voice in your head without knowing where it comes from would already negate a surprise round, though if allowed to be used with foes might confuse them. I thought you were concerned about the ability being too powerful, now it appears you want to make the ability more powerful by making it easier to trick foes.
The core rules say any willing, FR says any within range so you can go with any to give the halfling a more powerful effect then just talking silently. It of course depends a lot of how ability is used when talking with any. It could help confuse foes, it could be used to try to spy or effect a rescue. No matter what you decide to do with this, one thing should be kept in mind. The unwilling target does not have to answer to the voice in mind with soundless speach or any speach. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Ghostwise Halfling Wizard 5... with fireballs...
