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jordanz
Senior Scribe
553 Posts |
 Posted - 14 Oct 2007 : 23:02:23
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quote:
Gromph might be around even footing with guys like Vangerdahast and some of the weaker princes of shade and possibly Manshoon(But not likely)
I disagree. Vanderdaghast IMO is more of a fledgling Archmage. He's powerful relative to non archmages but for an archmage he's on the lower end I believe. I would put Gromph squarely on Manshoon's level and he is probably significantly wiser. |
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Asgetrion
Master of Realmslore
Finland
1564 Posts |
Posted - 14 Oct 2007 : 23:07:30
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quote:
Originally posted by IronHammer
Classically Ill say folks like everyones favorite elder brain lich, El, Larlock, Karsus but theres several other less well known casters who have to rank up there. What about the Elder treant "Mella Theeg"... She is a Wiz 36th/Brd20th. Thats 56 levels. Im sure theres some elder advanced dragons out there that could give nay mage a run for their money..
Hmmm... is she a canon NPC? Because I thought that Turlang is the most powerful treant in the Realms... |
"What am I doing today? Ask me tomorrow - I can be sure of giving you the right answer then."
-- Askarran of Selgaunt, Master Sage, speaking to a curious merchant, Year of the Helm |
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IronHammer
Acolyte
USA
28 Posts |
Posted - 15 Oct 2007 : 01:26:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Asgetrion
Hmmm... is she a canon NPC? Because I thought that Turlang is the most powerful treant in the Realms...
Shes in the Epic players handbook as the leader of the regulators. Shes not a FR's character..For some reason I had FR on the brain when I mentioned her |
I remember playing Dwarves and Elves as a character class... |
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Eol
Acolyte
South Africa
7 Posts |
Posted - 20 Oct 2007 : 15:22:01
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| I would say Srinshee. Fisrtly she is the only High Mage alive still to know the killing storm. She taught Elminster real magic. She is one if the oldest spellcaster in existance and she is a chosen of Mystra. |
Edited by - Eol on 16 Nov 2007 15:53:01 |
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Aravine
Senior Scribe
USA
608 Posts |
Posted - 12 Nov 2007 : 13:03:28
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| I do have to point out that the Simbul is listed in the FRCS as "the most powerful weilder of arcane magic in Faerun." Now, whether or not you take that at face value is entirely up to you. |
The brave don't live forever,the cautious don't live at all |
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Tigger
Acolyte
USA
19 Posts |
Posted - 12 Nov 2007 : 13:55:42
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quote:
Originally posted by Eol
I would say Shrinshee. Fisrtly she is the only High Mage alive still to know the killing storm. She taught Elminster real magic. She is one if the oldest spellcaster in existance and she is a chosen of Mystra.
I agree with the Srinshee being one of the most powerful casters, but I'm going to disagree with your other point. There is no reason for Srinshee to know the killing storm (unless I have missed a reference somewhere), though surely decended from the survivors of Miyeriter, she wasnt alive when the killing storm struck and her ancestors were survivors of the storm not the casters of the storm (ie the evil Sun Elves  ).
-Tig
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Eol
Acolyte
South Africa
7 Posts |
Posted - 16 Nov 2007 : 15:40:02
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| Look in Cormanthyr Empire of the Elves in the High Magic section. If I can remember correctly it say states that only Srinshee and one other High Mage (most probably Ualair the Silent) know the spell. |
Edited by - Eol on 16 Nov 2007 15:52:02 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 16 Nov 2007 : 15:46:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Eol
Look in Cormanthyr Empire of the Elves in the High Magic section. If I can remember correctly it say states that only Srinshee and one other High Mage (most probably Ullair the Silent) know the spell.
Indeed. Page 137:
quote:
The exact working of this ritual is lost to all but two High Mages on Toril; the Srinshee of Cormanthyr is one of them. The long-lost Killing Storm magic is a byproduct of this calamitous ritual, and involves the loss of life of all involved in the ritual including the twelve High Mages.
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 16 Nov 2007 15:47:25 |
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Tigger
Acolyte
USA
19 Posts |
Posted - 16 Nov 2007 : 18:02:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Eol
Look in Cormanthyr Empire of the Elves in the High Magic section. If I can remember correctly it say states that only Srinshee and one other High Mage (most probably Ullair the Silent) know the spell.
Indeed. Page 137:
quote:
The exact working of this ritual is lost to all but two High Mages on Toril; the Srinshee of Cormanthyr is one of them. The long-lost Killing Storm magic is a byproduct of this calamitous ritual, and involves the loss of life of all involved in the ritual including the twelve High Mages.
Very cool, thanks for pointing that out to me.
-Tig |
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Nalesean Caldevwin
Acolyte
USA
1 Posts |
Posted - 22 Nov 2007 : 03:13:14
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Earlier in this thread, Charles Phipps wrote:
"I'm going to go with a different set of criteria really that anyone else in order to handle this matter. In addition to levels; my criteria is going to be that they wield their power effectively along with possess wisdom, intelligence to use their powers, and personalities that prevent them from abusing their power."
I like the reasoning there. I will add my 2 cents, for Alustriel Silverhand. I don't doubt for a second that this will likely cause a series of outraged howls. I also realize that when it comes to sheer power, and the ability to face a straight-up combat, Alustriel is not even near the top. However, she out and out flattens most of the others in a number of other areas.
According to 3e Forgotten Realms sourcebook, a Mythal has been laid upon Silverymoon. I would guess that it would be safe to assume Alustriel was largely responsible for this, though she would have had help, of course. How many others, outside of Elminster, could make that claim?
Going by the old 2e spell lists (I'm not yet fully familiar w/ 3e), she is one of the top five most prolific, living, spellcasters in terms of new spell creation. Elminster and the Simbul have created some spells of higher level, and Laeral has created the most, but Alustriel is solid here, and shows the ability to work with another (some of her researches were done in conjunction with Sylune) A solid contribution to the advancement of magic.
In terms of wisdom, and effective use of power, how many of the others rule justly and wisely as Lady Hope? She has made Silverymoon into one of the most powerful and important cities in Faerun, including building the Spellguard, maybe not as large a group as the War Wizards, but every bit as effective. She has also taken a large, and diverse group of scattered northern outposts, and has made them into a nation.
She certainly possesses a personality which keeps her from abusing the power she's gathered to herself. In addition to her own abilities, she has gathered powerful followers (yes, most mages do), some of whom have devoted their lives to her ideals, including another Archmage (Taern "Old Thunderspells" Hornblade-L18), who serve her out of love, never fear.
In addition to her own power, she is able to draw upon the resources of her city, and to a lesser degree, the resources of the rest of her nation. Not only an Archmage, but in essence, a Queen as well, albeit without the title.
She also goes out of her way to aid adventurers and travelers, and was/is a major force within the Harpers, helping make a difference for good in the Realms.
Also according to the 3e books, Silverymoon, and the libraries found there might trail only Candlekeep & The Heralds' Holdfast as repositories of knowledge on the surface of Faerun. I've heard it said, "knowledge is power".
There was an outstanding Dragon Magazine article, when 2e was still the base, which outlined the Palace of Silverymoon, and it was mentioned in that article that the palace was home to possibly the largest stash of magical items and artifacts anywhere outside of Blackstaff Tower.
True, many of the things listed here are not, in the strictest sense, magical power, but they do represent power weilded, directly or indirectly by an archmage from the list. |
For the Good of all Goodly folk |
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Elestar
Acolyte
Hungary
27 Posts |
Posted - 23 Dec 2007 : 20:51:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Tigger
quote:
Originally posted by Eol
I would say Shrinshee. Fisrtly she is the only High Mage alive still to know the killing storm. She taught Elminster real magic. She is one if the oldest spellcaster in existance and she is a chosen of Mystra.
I agree with the Srinshee being one of the most powerful casters, but I'm going to disagree with your other point. There is no reason for Srinshee to know the killing storm (unless I have missed a reference somewhere), though surely decended from the survivors of Miyeriter, she wasnt alive when the killing storm struck and her ancestors were survivors of the storm not the casters of the storm (ie the evil Sun Elves ).
-Tig
I share the opinion that the Srinshee was the greatest spellcaster ever existed in the Realms. Not just powerful but kind and pragmatic. A true pragon. She was also a rather enigmatic being with unscrutable intelligence. And the most interesting proof of her unparalleled magical powers was the fact, that after centuries of being the wardnorn of the Wault of Ages and in the same time the lorenorn of the Armathors she revived from her baelnorn state to a living elfmaid; She merged almost everthing in one entity what was the the glory of Myth Drannor. So I favor her highly above all the spellcasters existent at the present. |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3737 Posts |
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Amluril Dire-Weaselbane
Acolyte
United Kingdom
20 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2008 : 16:04:44
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The Srinshee makes Elminster and the other chosen look like *****-kittens, she was level 30 in the old 2nd Ed rules and would also possess some of the most powerful items in the realms to back her up.
Plus she knows High Magic (or Epic "mythal" magic (cop-out!) as it is in 3rd ed).
PS - I HATE the 3rd edition take on Elven High mages, whoever wrote the High Mage prestige class in races of Faerun wants to be chased from the WOTC HQ by an angry mob and lynching.  |
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ShadezofDis
Senior Scribe
402 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2008 : 19:52:53
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Larloch.
You might have to give a nod to Azuth too. (What? It didn't say "nondivine" )
Otherwise, well, I'm sure there are some Creator race casters that are pretty good.
But really, the best caster is one we don't know. |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3737 Posts |
Posted - 12 Mar 2008 : 23:20:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Amluril Dire-Weaselbane
PS - I HATE the 3rd edition take on Elven High mages, whoever wrote the High Mage prestige class in races of Faerun wants to be chased from the WOTC HQ by an angry mob and lynching.
-The Elven High Mage PrC was redone by the good people working on the Elves of Faerūn project. It can be found here:
www.forgottenrealmsvault.com (The webmaster set things up so that you need to register. I don't agree, but it's free, so whatever. You won't be disappointed.) |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
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Zanan
Senior Scribe
Germany
942 Posts |
Posted - 13 Mar 2008 : 10:07:50
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| What's the problem with that PrC in Races of Faerūn? |
Cave quid dicis, quando et cui!
Gęš a wyrd swa hio scel!
In memory of Alura Durshavin.
Visit my "Homepage" to find A Guide to the Drow NPCs of Faerūn, Drow and non-Drow PrC and much more. |
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Lord Karsus
Great Reader
USA
3737 Posts |
Posted - 23 Mar 2008 : 04:26:14
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quote:
Originally posted by Zanan
What's the problem with that PrC in Races of Faerūn?
-Plenty. Most glaring is that it does not stick to the established precidence of what a Selu'Taar is, and what a Selu'Taar does, mechanically, very well. As something else, it's a solid PrC.
-"Four out of five" people don't approve of it. |
(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)
Elves of Faerūn
Vol I- The Elves of Faerūn
Vol. III- Spells of the Elves
Vol. VI- Mechanical Compendium |
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Shadovar Fitted
Acolyte
USA
0 Posts |
Posted - 11 Apr 2008 : 14:08:11
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| Telamont Tanthul, otherwise known as Lord Shadow. Then again, I'm biased. *adjusts her Shadovar fitted* |
A tree that you can not lean on will not kill you if it falls on you. |
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Kilsek
Acolyte
USA
10 Posts |
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jibriil
Acolyte
Australia
5 Posts |
Posted - 15 Sep 2008 : 20:36:34
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I completely agree with the Srinshee, but is she on the same planar level??
Otherwise I go for Larloch or Elminster - too hard to choose. Possibilities in the city of wyrmshadows - Patron Father Mauzkyll Jaezred of the Jaezred Chaulssin. Could Nimor have defeated Gromph? I assume Mauzkyll has Ten times Nimors power, Are there stats or something anyone??? He must be number one in the Underdark at least. |
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Ecap
Acolyte
8 Posts |
Posted - 16 Sep 2008 : 07:07:41
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Whoa!
A couple key Forgotten Realms players are being overlooked in this frenzy of uninformed opinion. Allow me to chime in:
Opinion: Elminster and his cronies (including spell-fire wielding Shandril) have "defeated" Manshoon on a couple ocacsions.
Fact: Despite being outnumbered, Mansoon fights back with dastardly cunning. He is dangerous enough to warrent being one of Elminsters primary foes.
Opinion: Manshoon has been "defeated"
Fact: Manshoon NEVER loses! He is prepared for EVERY possibility by an elite ressurection multiple-clone contingency - pretty much the ultimate spell!
Opinion: Manshoon is an evil, craven shell of a man.
Fact: You would HAVE to be, if you'd have any hope aligning mighty beholders, wealthy merchants, and the black fist of the zhentarim into one mighty force! Manshoon is so powerful and culturally enlightened that he has overcome the racism of one of Torils most xenophobic creatures - the beholders.
Also, how can we forget the eminent Szass Tam?
This lich has united Thay, and in doing so defeated the high council of Thayan over-mages! I'll bet the Simbul is shaking in her boots! Aglaronds defeat is imminent...
Also, the shrinshee doesn't seem that powerful. In a book detailing Elminsters younger years, the shrinshee is on the verge of defeat, embattled by a trio (I think) of amateurish elven mages. Elminster has to rescue her! (keep in mind, Elminster is not the powerful he is in Torils "present", this is close to the fall of Netheril, I believe). |
Sink or Swim |
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Rinonalyrna Fathomlin
Great Reader
USA
7106 Posts |
Posted - 16 Sep 2008 : 14:32:48
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quote:
Originally posted by Ecap
Also, the shrinshee doesn't seem that powerful. In a book detailing Elminsters younger years, the shrinshee is on the verge of defeat, embattled by a trio (I think) of amateurish elven mages.
Not having the text right in front of me, I can't agree or disagree with you here, but I will point out that just because one is not invulnerable does not mean they "aren't that powerful". |
"Instead of asking why we sleep, it might make sense to ask why we wake. Perchance we live to dream. From that perspective, the sea of troubles we navigate in the workaday world might be the price we pay for admission to another night in the world of dreams."
--Richard Greene (letter to Time) |
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Neil
Learned Scribe
Canada
107 Posts |
Posted - 16 Sep 2008 : 15:52:14
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How does one define 'best'? Power? Endurance? Artistic impression? Complexity? Combat capability? Advancement of the field of magic? By what deeds were accomplished? Number and power of magical items crafted? Should there be consideration for an individual performance, as opposed to those spellcasters who have divine assistance? Is there perhaps a formula combining some or all of these factors?
In terms of combining these factors, maybe Laeral? |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2008 : 03:44:41
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quote:
Originally posted by Ecap
Opinion: Manshoon has been "defeated"
Fact: Manshoon NEVER loses! He is prepared for EVERY possibility by an elite ressurection multiple-clone contingency - pretty much the ultimate spell!
I hate to disagree, but survival is not the same as victory. Manshoon has been defeated a number of times, by a number of foes (including himself, with the Manshoon Wars!). Being the baddest cockroach of the Realms ( ) does not make him undefeatable.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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Vangelor
Learned Scribe
USA
183 Posts |
Posted - 22 Sep 2008 : 13:39:29
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None of the above.
My vote is for the Srinshee.
How many mages can you name who recover from undeath?
Szass Tam may be all that, but face it: at the end of the day he is still a walking corpse. |
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Nicolai Withander
Master of Realmslore
Denmark
1093 Posts |
Posted - 23 Sep 2008 : 13:54:51
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| The Shrinshee, Zsazz Tam and Manshoon would all fall before Larloch! |
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The Red Walker
Great Reader
USA
3563 Posts |
Posted - 23 Sep 2008 : 13:59:54
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| With the recent events I would change my vote to Szass Tam. |
A little nonsense now and then, relished by the wisest men - Willy Wonka
"We need men who can dream of things that never were." -
John F. Kennedy, speech in Dublin, Ireland, June 28, 1963
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Brimstone
Great Reader
USA
3286 Posts |
Posted - 15 Nov 2008 : 15:27:04
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-Halaster.
BRIMSTONE  |
"These things also I have observed: that knowledge of our world is
to be nurtured like a precious flower, for it is the most precious
thing we have. Wherefore guard the word written and heed
words unwritten and set them down ere they fade . . . Learn
then, well, the arts of reading, writing, and listening true, and they
will lead you to the greatest art of all: understanding."
Alaundo of Candlekeep |
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Draezen
Acolyte
25 Posts |
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Ionik Knight
Learned Scribe
USA
222 Posts |
Posted - 15 Dec 2008 : 14:27:45
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I'ld say Halaster is the most powerful, not the most effective mind you--just the most powerful.
Ionik Knight |
Fools to right of them,
Jesters to left of them,
Clowns in front of them
Pun'd and parody'd. |
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Topic |
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Who is the best spellcaster in the realms
