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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1419 Posts |
 Posted - 14 Apr 2022 : 19:00:59
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http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/2022/04/101-lore-tidbits-from-my-game.html
We all create little libraries of random facts in our Dungeonmaster's notes over the years. By the time you're forty-one, like me, you might start turning them into novels. Which, given I'm an author, I have. However, these are some fun tidbits I've accumulated and thought I'd share. Some are ridiculous, others serious, and others ridicu-serious or dramedic. I hope they bring a smile to your face and the more you know about Dungeons and Dragons, specifically the Forgotten Realms, the more you'll probably enjoy these.
1. Asmodeus suffers a massive penalty to any interactions with a PC of peasant background, named "Jack", or a hero who challenges him to a fiddle contest.
2. The Dungeons and Dragons cartoon protagonists are actually real in the realms. Some deranged gnomish archwizard transported a bunch of teenagers to Toril in order to torment them. Decades later, they're all hardcore killers and want to kill him.
3. Psionicists and Sorcerers instinctively dislike each other for stealing each other's bit.
4. The fact good and evil are literal things in the world mean that evil and good don't actually mean positive or negative things to many races. Realms alienists have divided the brain into Good (Superego), Id (Evil), and Neutral (Ego) terms.
5. Gruumsh plays the game of golf and it is a popular orcish sport.
6. By the time of the Sundering, the "time of the adventurer" is largely over and most of the ruins, tombs, and easily-slaughtered humanoid tribes are played out. This reflects the changes in gaming styles between editions.
7. Historians take a very dim view of adventurers who went into humanoid territory to kill things for treasure. Changing morality and all that.
8. Nuances actually exist even in alignment planes. Acheron is LAWFUL evil and a place for repressive and callous gods. The Nine Hells are lawful EVIL where the cruelty is the point. Mount Celestia is for orderly good people and Arcadia is stifflingly confromist Ned Flanders land.
9. A class exists in my game called "Heretical Priest" where they claim to be a representative of a god but actually get their powers from Asmodeus while spouting the exact opposite of their deities' dogma. It's just the Devil's way of screwing with people.
10. See 9#, Asmodeus does this with evil gods too and has Lawful Good priests of Bane and people who think Lolth is just a misunderstood CG goddess.
11. Elves fetishsize humans every bit as much as the reverse. All the muscles and curves.
12. Goliaths are just orcs, half-orcs, and ogre descendants with better hygeine.
13. Drizzt Do'Urden copiers are in fact a thing in-universe. Many surface drow tried to ape his look to avoid being murdered. Drizzt notably HATED this.
14. A lot of Realms deities are actually elf gods and vice versa: Corellon = Lathander, Sehanine = Selune, Hanali = Sune, Mask = Vhaeraun. This is because gods love worshipers and know their followers are racist.
15. Tieflings really are the product of demonic/human couplings. No one wants to admit just how many voluntary ones have happened throughout history or how quick to get busy with the forces of evil people are.
16. Elminster and the Chosen of Mystra among other forces of good are almost never available to do anything due to near constant distractions. Whenever there's a threat to the Realms like Tiamat coming to Toril or Auril covering the place in eternal winter, they're often trapped in Barovia or visiting an alternate Toril stop their evil alternate universe counterparts.
17. See 16#, in fact there are about 3-4 equally powerful forces of evil for every champion of good and about 20-1 lesser but still potent evil doers. While their stats don't reflect it, Manshoon, Fzoul, and Szass Tam among other archbaddies could kill the good guys in a straight fight. Which is why neither side ever has them.
18. See 17#, this actually leads to the humorous fact the only reason the Realms hasn't been overwhelmed by evil is because the forces of evil are usually fighting each other. Thays, Zhents, and Sharists all agree that if they can't rule the world then the other guys can't either.
19. See 18#, the forces of good are more interested in keeping evil at each other's throats and being subtler than trying to beat it outright. Whether this is a good idea or not is anyone's guess but they're often afraid of evil power vacuums.
20. The Wall of the Faithless finally came down during the Spellplague. All of the souls in it, even those thought destroyed, have been released. Some have actually begun a lawsuit against Myrkul, Kelemvor, Jergal, and other deities from Sigil with the help of the Athar as well as Fraternity of Order. No one is sure how they would enforce any judgement.
21. Faithless souls now go to their alignment plane or may stay in the Fugue Plane, which has some nice places even if it's distressingly neutral.
22. There are copies of the Hand and Eye of Vecna among other Oerthian artifacts on Faerun. It is widely speculated this is just Vecna and other deities being an ass.
23. (Dragonlance) Kender actually know exactly what they're doing and the childish kleptomaniac thing is a popular scam.
24. Gnomish lack of safety standards and questionable steam technology is actually not that funny as well as the result of Victorian Era-esque capitalism.
25. Halfling is a slur but if it's any consolation, they have their own versions for humans ("Doublings") as well as some nastier versions.
26. (Ravenloft) Strahd has actually been killed literally hundreds of times by adventurers. It's part of his curse and really as much a cure for his boredom as searching for Tatiana.
27. A lot of settings are actually magically post-apocalyptic with their walled cities, hordes of monsters, and shattered ruins of greater cities. A lot of people don't realize this because they're used to thinking of it as normal.
28. There really are just 666 layers of the Abyss but since every layer is infinite and chaotic, it's kind of a moot point.
29. Drow skin tones come in purple, slate gray, and midnight black. Similarly, elves have solid gold, green, marble, and various browns.
30. Yes, there's plenty of non-evil drow just like Feanor and company illustrate how even the nicest elves can go off the deep end.
31. Good, Evil, and Neutral actually come off in a spectrum even beyond Law and Chaos. If your paladin pings someone as evil, beware if they're not just a self-centered jerkass whose behavior can be corrected with a stern talking to versus a guy who eats kidneys.
32. Kobolds are actually quite terrifying as if you leave them unchecked, your town will rapidly become the one from Gremlins.
33. Kobolds are not remotely related to dragons but no one is willing to point out the Napoleon syndrome at work here.
34. Tiamat literally does not notice Kobold worship and pays it less attention than human cultists.
35. [Spelljammer] There are technological realms in the universe but the Crystal Spheres and giant physics breaking beings cause most starship captains to be dismissed as lunatics when they report them. The "Dungeon Sector" and its worlds is considered something akin to the Warp from Warhammer 40K outside it.
36. There are worlds where hit points actually isn't an abstraction and some people can just tank being shot in the face. This is as terrifying to other people as it sounds.
37. Fzoul and Manshoon are lovers (Fzoul bi, Manshoon gay). Alusiar and Caladnei were consorts (with open relationships to several others--mostly adventurers). Same sex relationships are just accepted as normal in the Realms.
38. The protagonist from Baldur's Gate became a good-aligned minor deity while Abdel Adrian is just another Bhaalspawn who survived.
39. Halastar Blackcloak has monitoring spells set up all around Undermountain and literally spends most of his time munching on popcorn while viewing adventurers get killed in his obstacle courses.
All the treasure lying around are "prizes" for the winners/survivors.
40. Being a Lich is actually a particularly crappy existence as "transcending all mortal flesh" turns out to be not so much fun. Many Liches actually possess mortals or hang around Outer Planes to get back their old sensations.
41. Talos is the most avuncular pleasant Chaotic Evil god you're likely to meet. He loves exploding things, heavy metal, and expects nothing from his followers but making big booms. He's basically Mr. Torg from Borderlands (or Macho Man Randy Savage for an older reference).
42. Incredibly impractial sexy armor exists all across the Realms. They come in male loin cloths like Conan, Chainmail decolatage for women, and other fashionable choices for both sexes. Magic makes them work.
43. Mirt the Moneylender runs the equivalent of the World of Warcraft bank. Trading magical items, storing massive amounts of coin, and selling adventuring equipment is his primary stock and trade. He's also the only one you can trust with it all.
44. Torm is basically Luke Skywalker. Unlike Disney Luke, he got over his enormous reboot-induced funk, though.
45. The Girdle of Masculinity/Femininity isn't actually a cursed item but a medical device. You can certainly figure out who and what it was made for as well as why it was designed not to be removed.
46. Maztica is the reason why a lot of modern foods and vegetables are inside Faerun. It's avoided the majority of colonialist problems, though, in part because Cure Disease is a 3rd level spell.
47. Cure Disease actually provides immunity to whatever nonmagical disease it is used against after being cast. Which increases its utility considerably.
48. Yes, Paladine is Bahamut and Takhasis is Tiamat. We always knew it to be true.
49. Velsharoon the God of Undeath and Necromancy is incredibly pathetic as a deity with not even Thayans worshiping him. Myrkul is considering stealing his portfolios but isn't sure it would be beneath him.
50. See #49, Velsharoon is considering wholesale plagiarizing Vecna's religion and impersonating him. The problem is that due to the way the Outer Planes work, it could very well end with Vecna absorbing him and becoming a Faerun god.
51. [Ravenloft] The Dark Powers of Ravenloft actually aren't nearly as awesome as they seem and are really just petty dicks. Their secret origin? It's a pantheon of gods exiled from other pantheons for being petty dicks.
52. Archdemons and Archdevils are not gods in any shape or form and can be slain on their home plane. The exceptions being Asmodeus and Lolth who are gods-gods. They can grant spells, though.
53. Much like Mutants and Masterminds, I grant some beings a Challenge Rating of X. Like meeting a god on their home plane, it has the stats of "You lose." You can, however trick them or defeat them with plot Macguffins. The Ultimate Nullifier, Rod of Seven Parts, or what not.
54. Mongrelmen are the result of wizards patching together a bunch of dead bodies with a shoddier cheaper version of making a golem (Create Monstrous Assistant is a 5th Level Spell). Almost all of them are named Igor or Boris some other common name as well as inherently servile to spell-casters or mad scientists.
55. Princess Glaysa of the Nine Hells often shows up to party with adventurers, dump them in horribly threatening situations, and then peace out after the high of sex as well as drugs wears off. Disturbingly, she may actually be the eternally rebellious teenage avatar of Asmodeus.
56. Asmdoeus will occasionally ask for a hero's marriage instead of their soul. This is an incredibly stupid thing to take and no true Chaotic Good hero would do it.
57. Bane is so painfully Sauron that it hurts with all the spikes, black armor, orc minions, and so on that it hurts.
58. Cyric was never able to be taken seriously as a god until he started dressing up in clown makeup. Now there's just something about him that terrifies people.
59. There's speculation that Bane, Bhaal, and Myrkul never came back. That it's actually Xvim (Bane), Velsharoon (Myrkul), and Cyric (Bhaal) impersonating them. But if you impersonate a god too well, they become real due to the way belief works in the Outer Planes, so what does it matter?
60. Lolth squandered being a Greater Goddess and is back to being a Lesser Goddess because she got bored and wrecked everything after a few big successes. Lolth doesn't have plans, she has whims.
61. Each of Tiamat's heads is a genius and scheming against the others. Except the White Dragon head, who is easily distracted by shiny things and just wishes they could make friends. If you're a dragon cultist, pray to the White Dragon head. Just don't expect much in return.
62. Eventually, the Lady of Pain let all of the Factions back into Sigil but they're now on probation with lots of more philosophical oddballs having joined the group. The Pratchetness of the place has only somehow increased.
63. Lawful Stupid Paladins are very rare because of the Wisdom requirement but when they do screw up, they tend to screw up EPICALLY. It doesn't help when Asmodeus does the Heretical Priest thing with them too.
64. A multiverse of alternate Torils, Oerths, Krynns, and so on exists in addition to the Prime Material Plane. Thus all games are canon.
65. Vecna's rampage was organized by, you guessed it, Asmodeus. Alternatively, it could be Orcus but they're the two sides with brains.
66. Asmodeus is responsible for the D&D Satanic Panic.
67. Gra'azt is either Asmodeus' wayward son or another avatar.
68. Orcus isn't a god, he's an UNDEAD god. He's responsible for the destruction of the Knights Templar on alternate Earths, is quite the party animal, and many a goat sex joke.
69. The side of good, despite being outnumbered, is STILL prone to infighting as the Order of the Gauntlet considers the Harpers to be a terrorist organization and works to eliminate it.
70. The Lords Alliance also considers the Harpers to be a terrorist organization but uses it whenever it is conveinant.
71. Tyr is significantly less humble, kind, compassionate, an forgiving than Torm. Tyr tends to favor Helm over Torm and thinks the world would run a lot smoother if not so much that he conquered it but everyone was converted to worshiping Lawful gods under him. Other deities have to remind him he's NOT the king of the gods or Ao's favored son.
72. Bahamut bears a suspicious similarity to certain alternate Earths' idea of God in many respects and is the god who lives at the top of Mount Celestia. He, Torm, and Ilmater have been suspiciously known to hang out.
73. Archdevas exist just like Archdemons but you almost never hear of them because they're not trying to make waves.
74. Io is just the dragons' name for Ao (and vice versa) as they're a race with a better understanding of celestial alignments.
75. Helm and Tyr are survivors of a now-defunct pantheon from displaced humans in Icewind Dale. I can't imagine what they were like.
76. Realms coinage is debased and a gold piece is actually about 10% pure gold. Ditto all the other coinage except coppers and everyone hates coppers.
77. Your typical Realmsian doesn't worship a single patron god but the entire pantheon. You pray to Talos for rain and Chauntea for good crops with no contradiction.
78. Durnan of the Yawning Portal tavern is Sean Connery. They look and sound identical.
79. In my games, if you pass 20th level, you automatically ascend to demigod status. Mind you, that doesn't make you invincible as many have found. You become the smallest fish in a larger pond.
80. In modern Realms times, orcs, bugbears, and other humanoids live normal lives among other races. The Spellplague brought everyone together. Mind you, tensions still exist as do them generally being dicks.
81. Xanathar the Beholder has the personality of Jabba the Hutt, including his bizarre court as well as monster musicians. There's absolutely a pit trap over a basilisk lair in his headquarters.
82. Despite how the books have portrayed them, Manshoon and Fzoul are absolutely deadly enemies and genius schemers equal to Lex Luthor and Doctor Doom. Yes, they've failed a lot but they're still hanging around too.
83. For all the elves claims of back to nature tree hugging. Their cities are actually incredibly intricately designed biospheres and magically engineered lifeforms. They can sit around all day and do nothing because the trees provide baked bread and free water at will.
84. See #83, this is also why elves react so negatively to humans because it's not chopping down random trees that ticks them off but the fact they've chopped down power lines and sewer systems.
85. Dwarves love dogs. This is an underdocumented feature of their race.
86. Elves primarily love cats. Much is explained.
87. There's a not entirely unbelievable argument by certain elves and dwarves that humans, in fact, are just orcs that became "civilized" due to their lack of a racial creator god. Either that or were some magically altered or hybrid race. People who argue other gods made their races from humans get a thorough beating in an alleyway after class, though.
88. The Zhentarim are the best people to have as merchants in your area due to the fact they're as happy to supply weapons, magic, and party supplies to "good" parties as "evil" parties. It's an awkward situation that many Harper-funded revolutions and underdefended towns deal with.
89. There are many stories of humans being abducted by strange creatures, experimented on, and returned to their homes. These are absolutely true and done by Spelljamming Illithids. We're not sure why they also take cattle and leave intricate pretty circles in crops.
90. Psionics are related to ancient Illithid experimentations on humanity and touching the Far Realms.
91. Clerics generally don't charge for their spells unless it's dirty-dirty adventurers. It's just they usually devote their spells to the caring of their parishioners. After all, every Raise Dead they waste on you is one less for a child who died prematurely.
92. Adventuring is usually a euphemism in the realm and generally means some combination of mercenary, assassin, exterminator, legbreaker, grave robber, and (oddly enough) archaeologist.
93. See #92. Most adventurers ARE some combination of such and generally have a "day job" inbetween looking for the next big score. It is a thoroughly disreputable profession.
94. It says something about life in the Realms that Shar promises oblivion to her followers and still has a fairly consistent number of worshipers.
95. Ghaundaur, Tharizdun, and Jubilex are all the same entity. The archdemon is actually an avatar of the former two to give you a sense of how powerful it is.
96. See #95, Jubilex's pet parrot from Castle Greyhawk is, in fact, canon.
97. Dragons actually routinely crossbreed and produce members of their various colors and types. These include temporary matings between Chromatic and Metallic dragons. The salvation of the race is at stake, though.
98. See #97, shockingly, as a result, all dragons take adventurers destroying eggs personally.
99. Chultian Elves REALLY hate if you call them Jungle Elves or confuse them with Drow.
100. Bards are generally considered less like annoying minstrels and more like professional spies and assassins. You're more likely to get James Bond from them than Jaskier/Dandelion.
101. The huge number of monsters just wandering around Faerun are primarily due to wizards of Netheril having some weird hobbies and menargies. Plenty of them are immortal constructs while others are descended from breeding pairs. How do you think they got the owlbear and displacer beast? Very popular pets circa -3876 DR.
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My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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Edited by - Charles Phipps on 14 Apr 2022 19:44:21
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2445 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2022 : 19:51:46
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quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
18. See 17#, this actually leads to the humorous fact the only reason the Realms hasn't been overwhelmed by evil is because the forces of evil are usually fighting each other. Thays, Zhents, and Sharists all agree that if they can't rule the world then the other guys can't either.
19. See 18#, the forces of good are more interested in keeping evil at each other's throats and being subtler than trying to beat it outright. Whether this is a good idea or not is anyone's guess but they're often afraid of evil power vacuums.
beings cause most starship captains to be dismissed as lunatics when they report them. The "Dungeon Sector" and its worlds is considered something akin to the Warp from Warhammer 40K outside it.
You had me until I read those. I find those to be the most utterly boring D&Dism of all... Like done to death, and just uninspiring.
Good stuff, though. |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1419 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2022 : 19:56:09
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quote:
You had me until I read those. I find those to be the most utterly boring D&Dism of all... Like done to death, and just uninspiring.
You know what I call a world where good is winning?
A world that doesn't need heroes.
:)
But I'm glad you enjoyed! Thank you for reading. |
My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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Edited by - Charles Phipps on 14 Apr 2022 20:18:13 |
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Zeromaru X
Great Reader
Colombia
2445 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2022 : 20:37:38
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quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
You know what I call a world where good is winning?
A world that doesn't need heroes.
I don't want a world where Good wins. I just find boring that if you want a world in need of heroes, you nerf Good. However, why I find the most boring thing is that Good survives because Evil vs Evil. That just lame and done to death.
What if Good is competent, for a change? What if Good and Evil are so even that they cannot eradicate the other without risking their own annihilation. The reason Elminster and co. haven't wiped out the Zhents and Thay is because that means they could be destroyed as a side effect, but the same applies for the evil guys: they cannot destroy Elminster and friends, because there's the chance they can be eradicated as a result. The "strongest spear vs the strongest shield" scenario.
That's why both sides recruit adventurers: to try to tip the scales to their benefit. And to thin down the list of would-be rivals/killers. |
Instead of seeking change, you prefer a void, merciless abyss of a world... |
Edited by - Zeromaru X on 14 Apr 2022 20:39:25 |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1419 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2022 : 20:51:08
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quote:
Originally posted by Zeromaru X
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
You know what I call a world where good is winning?
A world that doesn't need heroes.
I don't want a world where Good wins. I just find boring that if you want a world in need of heroes, you nerf Good. However, why I find the most boring thing is that Good survives because Evil vs Evil. That just lame and done to death.
What if Good is competent, for a change? What if Good and Evil are so even that they cannot eradicate the other without risking their own annihilation. The reason Elminster and co. haven't wiped out the Zhents and Thay is because that means they could be destroyed as a side effect, but the same applies for the evil guys: they cannot destroy Elminster and friends, because there's the chance they can be eradicated as a result. The "strongest spear vs the strongest shield" scenario.
That's why both sides recruit adventurers: to try to tip the scales to their benefit. And to thin down the list of would-be rivals/killers.
I guess for me, I prefer the idea that evil is more inclined to defeat itself and good works together better. I also note that it reverses the stereotype of good being dumb and loud while evil is subtle and manipulative. This version has Elminster and the Chosen acting behind the scenes and playing the long game ala Palpatine.
They're underdogs and have to use their brains to work against the overwhelming baddies. |
My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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Athreeren
Learned Scribe
132 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2022 : 10:54:38
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Some of these I love, and some make far too much sense not to be true. All in all, I'm probably going to use most of them!
Also, 37: Manshoon canonically dated Symgharyl Maruel, so he shouldn't be gay (bi is possible, and when you're an archmage, it's really a waste not to use polymorph and be pan anyway). |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1419 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2022 : 11:18:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Athreeren
Some of these I love, and some make far too much sense not to be true. All in all, I'm probably going to use most of them!
Also, 37: Manshoon canonically dated Symgharyl Maruel, so he shouldn't be gay (bi is possible, and when you're an archmage, it's really a waste not to use polymorph and be pan anyway).
Thanks!
Oh and I had forgotten that! Good catch! :) You're also very write about the unique possibilities of magic.
I hope other people will share their's in this thread. |
My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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Edited by - Charles Phipps on 16 Apr 2022 11:22:43 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2022 : 15:17:27
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Some of these things are -- or have been -- canon.
4E reduced* the number of gods by saying a lot of racial deities and human deities were the same. This was undone with 5E.
Ed has said repeatedly that same-sex relationships are accepted in the Realms. He's also stated, repeatedly, that only clerics and the most zealous believers worship only one deity; everyone else has one that they favor above overs, but will still pray to other deities when appropriate.
And there was a one-off promotional comic book that had the D&D kids in the Realms. The story is barely meh, and the artwork isn't good enough to be called meh. I've also been told that in one of the Baldur's Gate games, there is a shop or something with a painting of the kids on the wall.
*So, officially, the number of gods was shrunk in 4E because there were "too many gods." I find this claim HIGHLY questionable, though, since the design team dropped in some new deities at the same time they were culling existing ones. Asmodeus will never have a place in my Realms. |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1419 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2022 : 15:46:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Some of these things are -- or have been -- canon.
Yeah, some of these are definitely influenced by my time here at Candlekeep. I especially have always been affected by Ed Greenwood's statement of how much he'd had to tone down the competence of Fzoul and Manshoon. It's bad enough that you have the heroes against you in a fantasy novel but the executives against you? That's just awful.
quote:
4E reduced* the number of gods by saying a lot of racial deities and human deities were the same. This was undone with 5E.
Frankly, I felt that was the one very interesting idea they had for 4th Edition. Ever since the Earthmother and Chauntea connection, I've always loved the idea of deities and guises. Reversing this was a mistake and I've always been annoyed by it. It's not like we don't have similar things in RL religion (Jupiter/Zeus, Wotan/Odin).
I admit I like the idea of exploring the "origins" of some Realms gods and the idea that some of them like Tyr, Helm, and Vhaeraun wandered in to join from other pantheons is something interesting to me.
"Hi, my name is Horus, I'm a big deal in Mulhorand. I've noticed you guys could use an avenging god of ass kicking good and I'd like to apply for the position. I dislike snakes, jackals, and crocodiles. I also am pretty cool with absolute rulership."
quote:
Ed has said repeatedly that same-sex relationships are accepted in the Realms. He's also stated, repeatedly, that only clerics and the most zealous believers worship only one deity; everyone else has one that they favor above overs, but will still pray to other deities when appropriate.
I grew up in a very conservative area and I have to say the discovery that Ed Greenwood's vision of the Realms was far more hippie, free-love, and sexually tolerant was something that had an affect on me in real life. It and White Wolf's handling of the idea improved me as a person and I wish this element hadn't been suppressed by TSR.
And yes, I tend to vilify the old guard corporate structure that didn't let Ed present his true vision even if I love the name "festhall." :)
quote:
And there was a one-off promotional comic book that had the D&D kids in the Realms. The story is barely meh, and the artwork isn't good enough to be called meh. I've also been told that in one of the Baldur's Gate games, there is a shop or something with a painting of the kids on the wall.
I remember that now! I actually had completely forgotten about that comic until you brought it up just now (and someone else on another board). I didn't think the cartoon took place in the Realms officially (and it had some genuinely strange stuff) but you could easily set it during the Time of Troubles and maybe in the Border Kingdoms. That's where everything is undefined and crazy anyway.
quote:
*So, officially, the number of gods was shrunk in 4E because there were "too many gods." I find this claim HIGHLY questionable, though, since the design team dropped in some new deities at the same time they were culling existing ones. Asmodeus will never have a place in my Realms.
I think it's ridiculous to remove gods because there's "too many" but you could conflate them because it's an INTERESTING idea. Which seems like a better way to present the concept.
I'm curious about why Asmodeus isn't in your campaigns, though. He is someone who dates back to 1st Edition D&D after all. Mind you, I'm iffier about him being a Greater God (he's "just" an Archdemon in my campaigns) but I see no reason he shouldn't be in the Realms anymore than Corellon and Moradin.
You can tell from my list I enjoy using Asmodeus in my games. |
My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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Edited by - Charles Phipps on 16 Apr 2022 15:47:49 |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1419 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2022 : 16:10:51
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Some actual additional notes for context:
102. Worship of Devils and Demons was almost unknown outside of the Underdark prior to the Time of Troubles. The deaths of so many gods combined with their (usually atrocious) behavior during the event resulted in many people seeking alternative forms of worship.
103. The deity that Asmodeus slew for his divinity was Amanuator. The Devil was cheated, though, because it was actually said deity wishing to be reborn as a god of good rather than order. It also bound Asmodeus to war against Demons eternally as servants of chaos.
104. Demon cults are tiny things usually with only a rare one like Lolth, Asmodeus, or Orcus growing to anything resembling a religion. Even gods of evil tend to have more redeeming qualities than fiend worship. A dozen members is a large one.
105. The Dungeons and Dragons cartoon took place in the Time of Troubles (why Tiamat was running around) and in the Border Kingdoms.
106. Durnan married an Alias clone who was, of course, an adult when he married her. She'd been in the Feywild for a century.
107. Festhall bard is a perfectly legitimate profession and many bards get their training at them. Some of the best, most inventive music comes from those places.
108. The "best" endings for all video games are canon. Which means that, yes, Mephistopheles is dead in the Forgotten Realms' Nine Hells and Aribeth was redeemed. Its not like there's not other fiends to take his place.
109. The Tarrasque is real but the general strategy is to just evacuate people away from it and rebuild afterward. Only complete morons attempt to slay it, stirring it up, or control it. Which means that there's adventurers hired to stop these fools.
110. See 107#, Like Godzilla, it spends most of its time underwater and sleeping with it only coming up every few decades to feed.
111. The Demogorgon has no cults, no religion, and one genius head and another emotional head. It still has people who venerate it simply because it is the strongest of all evils. It also loves chatting.
112. The Demogorgon used to have a third head before it was cut off by Bahamut. Previously, it was a far vaster danger to the rest of the Multiverse as two heads would team up on the third to inflict misery and doom on the Multiverse. |
My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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Edited by - Charles Phipps on 16 Apr 2022 16:27:52 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2022 : 17:29:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
quote:
And there was a one-off promotional comic book that had the D&D kids in the Realms. The story is barely meh, and the artwork isn't good enough to be called meh. I've also been told that in one of the Baldur's Gate games, there is a shop or something with a painting of the kids on the wall.
I remember that now! I actually had completely forgotten about that comic until you brought it up just now (and someone else on another board). I didn't think the cartoon took place in the Realms officially (and it had some genuinely strange stuff) but you could easily set it during the Time of Troubles and maybe in the Border Kingdoms. That's where everything is undefined and crazy anyway.
I'd have the place we saw in the cartoons being another world or demiplane, and eventually the kids left there and wound up in the Realms. It's easier than trying to fit everything else in, even in the Border Kingdoms.
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
I'm curious about why Asmodeus isn't in your campaigns, though. He is someone who dates back to 1st Edition D&D after all. Mind you, I'm iffier about him being a Greater God (he's "just" an Archdemon in my campaigns) but I see no reason he shouldn't be in the Realms anymore than Corellon and Moradin.
You can tell from my list I enjoy using Asmodeus in my games.
There are a lot of deities that go back to 1E. But Asmodeus was never a Realms deity until he was shoved in during the 4E era.
My ideal Realms stays around the 1375ish timeframe, so the 4E stuff will never happen, and even if it did, I don't see a need for Asmodeus. We've enough evil powers in the Realms. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2022 : 17:43:52
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quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
106. Durnan married an Alias clone who was, of course, an adult when he married her. She'd been in the Feywild for a century.
It's possible that Alias and her sisters are immortal. Flattery was designed to be immortal, and Alias and her sisters were based on him. And given her vanity, it makes sense that Cassana would have kept that feature. (As far as Cassana is concerned, I think that Alias was a prototype, and she intended a later model to transfer her consciousness into, as an immortal replacement body)
I asked Jeff Grubb about the possibility of them being immortal, once, but he wouldn't give anything more definitive than "it's possible; it depends on what the story needs."
(Obviously, though, you could argue that since Cat had kids, there was divine interference that made the sisters human, without immortality) |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 16 Apr 2022 17:44:44 |
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1419 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2022 : 17:55:58
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I'd have the place we saw in the cartoons being another world or demiplane, and eventually the kids left there and wound up in the Realms. It's easier than trying to fit everything else in, even in the Border Kingdoms.
Very possibly. Maybe they were in the Shadowfell or Feywild or just their own original world. I admit I was surprised at the retconning of them in the Realms to begin with. But yes, unless it was during the ToT, it's strange for Tiamat and Lolth to be just casually running around with a Tiefling Archwizard who sounds like Optimus Prime (before Tieflings were a thing too!).
quote:
There are a lot of deities that go back to 1E. But Asmodeus was never a Realms deity until he was shoved in during the 4E era.
Deity? No. But it's not like the infernal hasn't been a part of the Realms for a long time. Hellgate Keep, the Fey'ri, Bloodstone Trilogy has Orcus as its major enemy [I don't actually own them], Gargauth was the "Lord of the Tenth" and basically his backstory depends on being made Asmodeus' bitch. Gargauth is also someone who dates back to 1st Edition.
Really, it's only 2nd Edition due to the Satanic panic that all of the Lords of the Nine and other "cool" Demon Princes disappeared and even then that wasn't absolute as we have Gra'azt playing a big role in Waukeen's abduction.
Can you tell I'm a fan of DDD (Dungeons and Dragons demonology)?
quote:
My ideal Realms stays around the 1375ish timeframe, so the 4E stuff will never happen, and even if it did, I don't see a need for Asmodeus. We've enough evil powers in the Realms.
Honestly, 4E almost killed my love of gaming so I'm just slowly coming back. Our current campaign is going to be a 100+ year journey across every Edition.
As for Demon princes and Archdevils vs. Evil Gods, I was debating doing a thread on what the role of them in FR should be.
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
106. Durnan married an Alias clone who was, of course, an adult when he married her. She'd been in the Feywild for a century.
It's possible that Alias and her sisters are immortal. Flattery was designed to be immortal, and Alias and her sisters were based on him. And given her vanity, it makes sense that Cassana would have kept that feature. (As far as Cassana is concerned, I think that Alias was a prototype, and she intended a later model to transfer her consciousness into, as an immortal replacement body)
I asked Jeff Grubb about the possibility of them being immortal, once, but he wouldn't give anything more definitive than "it's possible; it depends on what the story needs."
(Obviously, though, you could argue that since Cat had kids, there was divine interference that made the sisters human, without immortality)
I think Alias showing up unchanged in the Sundering Era takes a lot less work than Mirt and Dunan. |
My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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Edited by - Charles Phipps on 16 Apr 2022 17:59:24 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36782 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2022 : 22:40:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I'd have the place we saw in the cartoons being another world or demiplane, and eventually the kids left there and wound up in the Realms. It's easier than trying to fit everything else in, even in the Border Kingdoms.
Very possibly. Maybe they were in the Shadowfell or Feywild or just their own original world. I admit I was surprised at the retconning of them in the Realms to begin with. But yes, unless it was during the ToT, it's strange for Tiamat and Lolth to be just casually running around with a Tiefling Archwizard who sounds like Optimus Prime (before Tieflings were a thing too!).
I don't know that I'd call it a retcon... Yeah, the comic had a FR logo on it, but so far as I know, the existence of the comic was never even acknowledged anywhere. And given that "the Realm" had portals to elsewhere, and so does the Realms, and both have connections to Earth, it's not unreasonable to assume they could have transited from one to the other. And dropping those kids in, without mention of any of the stuff from the cartoon, doesn't change anything for either property.
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
Deity? No. But it's not like the infernal hasn't been a part of the Realms for a long time. Hellgate Keep, the Fey'ri, Bloodstone Trilogy has Orcus as its major enemy [I don't actually own them], Gargauth was the "Lord of the Tenth" and basically his backstory depends on being made Asmodeus' bitch. Gargauth is also someone who dates back to 1st Edition.
Really, it's only 2nd Edition due to the Satanic panic that all of the Lords of the Nine and other "cool" Demon Princes disappeared and even then that wasn't absolute as we have Gra'azt playing a big role in Waukeen's abduction.
Can you tell I'm a fan of DDD (Dungeons and Dragons demonology)?
Though I'd not use them, I've no objections to including fiends and such. I just don't think we need to make one of them a deity -- especially since, as I understand it, he was already more powerful than some deities and had absolutely no interest in becoming one. |
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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 16 Apr 2022 22:50:17 |
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AJA
Senior Scribe
USA
749 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2022 : 07:08:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
Some actual additional notes for context:
104. Demon cults are tiny things usually with only a rare one like Lolth, Asmodeus, or Orcus growing to anything resembling a religion. Even gods of evil tend to have more redeeming qualities than fiend worship. A dozen members is a large one.
Also, because all gods (even gods of evil) understand that demons and devils are an eternal underlying threat to their "deserved" tallies of souls and worship, and consider them as direct a danger as a peer deity of similar portfolio, and do their utmost to foil (either by their own machinations or by actions of their faithful) such activities in Faerûn
quote:
Originally posted by Charles Phipps
107. Festhall bard is a perfectly legitimate profession and many bards get their training at them. Some of the best, most inventive music comes from those places.
Hmm. First the DnD Cartoon kids in the The Realms, now The Beatles 
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AJA
YAFRP
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1419 Posts |
Posted - 17 Apr 2022 : 19:35:56
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quote:
Hmm. First the DnD Cartoon kids in the The Realms, now The Beatles.
It was actually a reference to the origins of jazz but that also works very well!
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My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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Charles Phipps
Master of Realmslore
1419 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2022 : 00:49:48
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113. [Planescape] Sigil is not actually a particularly enlightened place despite its pretensions as the center of the Multiverse but a location that bends towards philosophical neutrality in all things. Which in simple terms means that everyone who believes very strongly in something will find their beliefs humbled, mocked, or dulling the longer they're in Sigil. Angels and demons gradually become more and more mundane while zealots in the service of any cause, no matter how just or injust, look like fools. It also attracts misfits and oddballs of all stripes to the point that reality acts more like Terry Pratchett and Neil Gaiman wrote a D&D setting than Tolkien or Gygax.
114. [Planescape] See #113, this actually means that seasoned planar champions of gods, clerics, and even the philosophically devoted HATE Sigil and avoid it at all costs. The very fabric of reality eats at one's sense of grandeur and capacity for awe. It's the kind of place where you go if you think living a life purely for gold or routine is sensible. Only its status as a gateway to everywhere keeps it in visitors.
115. [Planescape] See #114, Vecna seizing control of the city and almost destroying the universe helped make many of its own residents realize this as more than half of the city exited when their response to it was, initially, "Huh. Isn't that strange." Their regained a good sense of perspective upon leaving. |
My Blog: http://unitedfederationofcharles.blogspot.com/
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Athreeren
Learned Scribe
132 Posts |
Posted - 18 Apr 2022 : 11:42:35
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quote:
I don't know that I'd call it a retcon... Yeah, the comic had a FR logo on it, but so far as I know, the existence of the comic was never even acknowledged anywhere.
Well, this is the comic where TSR people meet Volo to buy Volo's Guide to All Things Magical from him, an event that has been referenced in that book and in Realms of Magic, I believe. Of course, this only means the events of this comic canonically happened in the Realms, it says nothing about where the TV show is set.
quote:
114. [Planescape] See #113, this actually means that seasoned planar champions of gods, clerics, and even the philosophically devoted HATE Sigil and avoid it at all costs. The very fabric of reality eats at one's sense of grandeur and capacity for awe. It's the kind of place where you go if you think living a life purely for gold or routine is sensible. Only its status as a gateway to everywhere keeps it in visitors.
Don't forget those who see it as a challenge (if they can prove their god and their values are the best there, then they can convince anyone!), and quickly get mazed by the Lady of Pain. |
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101 Funny and Serious Lore Tidbits from my Games
