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MilosGulan
Acolyte
Croatia
7 Posts |
 Posted - 21 Jun 2021 : 22:15:47
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Hello I am new here. I have asked it here and I am asking again with hope I will find it http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=24029
I need 2e version with stats (HP, and all other things) of the dragons that appeared in Dragon magazines, Wyrms of the North. Here are 3e version, but I need 2e
https://www.realmshelps.net/npc/wyrms/index.shtml
I had it before in pdf, compilation of all dragons of the North from Dragon magazines updated on WoTC site with 2e stats, but I lost it... Now I need it again as I am about to run some adventures.
Please if anyone can help me with this I would be really grateful...
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Edited by - MilosGulan on 21 Jun 2021 22:18:04
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jun 2021 : 22:37:55
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I'm not at all certain there were 2E stats for them. I found the original articles on the WotC site, and those were 3E, and one of them specifically stated that the articles were written without stats but were being presented again with stats for the new D&D.
Keep in mind, a lot of the stuff Ed gave us in 1E and 2E didn't have stats at all, or only minimal stats -- race, gender, class, level, alignment, any stats over 16. The trend of statting everything came with 3E.
The only stats I recall for dragons in 2E, aside from just monster entries, were things specific to the Council of Wyrms setting. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jun 2021 : 22:55:57
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Just checked the Internet Archive; they don't have any caches of the pages until like 2004 -- a couple years after most of the articles were published. I have the original URLs in my Word files I saved when they were posted; I used a couple of them, including the oldest of the bunch.
Those files have 3E stats, too. It's possible I went back and re-saved them all for some reason, but I think it unlikely. |
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MilosGulan
Acolyte
Croatia
7 Posts |
Posted - 21 Jun 2021 : 23:29:43
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I am sure I had them in 2e format from WoTC site in pdf. I can't find them on net for almost a year, that is why I thought of this place as my only chance now. I have used Arauthator "Old White Death" (2e stats) but it is from unofficial adventure by Bill Sweeney Fire and Ice I have run 2 times, that was on RPG Archive (I have saved all adventures from that site and still have them).
I think 2e was on WoTC site before, I am almost sure of it. Here is what I have found on the net, it is old but at least it is a clue http://rpg.nobl.ca/archive.php?x=dnd/archfr/wn I think they have just removed 2e stats and changed them with 3e. |
Edited by - MilosGulan on 21 Jun 2021 23:32:58 |
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TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore
USA
1289 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jun 2021 : 00:36:39
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| There are stats for some dragons under the Hall of Fame chapter in the 2e Draconomicon. Could that be where you remember seeing them? |
"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."
My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jun 2021 : 03:44:53
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quote:
Originally posted by MilosGulan
I think they have just removed 2e stats and changed them with 3e.
It seems unlikely that they would have done that. All of those articles were posted on the WotC website after the release of 3rd edition.
So they would have had to have statted them up an already-defunct ruleset that really didn't support treating monsters as anything other than monsters, then gone back and updated those stats to the ruleset they had just released a couple years before and were still actively pushing.
It is possible that this sequence of events happened -- WotC has done some really bizarre things that made no business sense before -- but I don't see it having been done in this case.
Oh, and I found the links. The articles are still on the Wizards site, along with a lot of the other older and still-missed lore offerings like Mintiper's Chapbook.
http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/archfr/wn |
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MilosGulan
Acolyte
Croatia
7 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jun 2021 : 09:07:08
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quote:
Originally posted by TheIriaeban
There are stats for some dragons under the Hall of Fame chapter in the 2e Draconomicon. Could that be where you remember seeing them?
No it was from WoTC site. I am sure of it. I used to save those articles, and now I have remembered I used to have Mintiper`s chapbooks too and probably other similar things. I was searching for those this morning will have to check my HD now after I go to town...
I am sure there were Wyrms of North on WoTC site with 2e stats. I have found somewhere on the net pdf with compiled all dragons with 2e stats and also Mintiper's chapbooks. I really need to find those dragons, I am sure they were like I have said with 2e stats, descriptions were taken from dragon magazines, then 2e stats were added, and after that they have been converted to 3e but 2e version was replaced... |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6646 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jun 2021 : 09:41:00
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The dragons featured in the Wyrms of the North series were showcased in Dragon magazine (with no stats save for spells and magic items) and the WotC website (here: http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/archfr/wn ) where they were given 3E stats. They have never been statted out for 2E. You are mistaken in that regard.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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MilosGulan
Acolyte
Croatia
7 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jun 2021 : 15:58:38
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I am not. I am 95% sure there were 2e stats on WoTC site and that I had those, as I am sure there were 2e version of Northern Journey and now there is only 3e version http://www.candlekeep.com/campaign/nj_main.htm
I have lost version of Northern Journey for 2e but with luck I have got it from one of the Authors.
I don't want to be impolite, I just know that I had those 2e versions, there is small chance that those were unoffical but now I can't say it for sure as long time had passed. I have checked it again and now there is only one chance and that is if I can recover my long notworking external HD. I will try to give it to someone who can repair it or at least make backup copy of those data.
Oh well now I am not really sure, maybe those were unofficial, but there were all dragons with 2e stats and with WoTC and their offical site logo and all texts about dragons from dragons magazines in one pdf. That I am sure of. |
Edited by - MilosGulan on 22 Jun 2021 15:59:45 |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jun 2021 : 16:26:33
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Krash has worked on published FR products and stays in regular contact with a lot of the designers (and Ed Greenwood himself!) from that particular era. If he says there were no official 2E stats, then there were not any.
And as I said earlier, it would have been weird for WotC to have taken the time to create 2E stats after the publication of 3E.
You may have found 2E stats somewhere, but they were unofficial and certainly not on the Wizards site. |
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Kentinal
Great Reader
4685 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jun 2021 : 17:44:31
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| They might had been seen on WotC forum as fan based or belief that was official by a member. |
"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jun 2021 : 18:39:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal
They might had been seen on WotC forum as fan based or belief that was official by a member.
That's a possibility.
I'm wondering if these elusive stats were based on Council of Wyrms or something else. I statted up a couple of dragons using that one, back in the day. None of them were Wyrms of the North; I statted up my own character that I never got to play for CoW, and I later statted up one or two others as NPCs.
I think I'd picked a silver dragon for my character, back then, which now strikes me as odd -- I'm a much bigger fan of bronze dragons, now. |
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MilosGulan
Acolyte
Croatia
7 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jun 2021 : 20:40:55
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| Ok, then maybe they were unofficial, but they were done really good and they looked like those webpages from WoTC site, just with different numbers. Maybe I was wrong but I remember that I had PDF compilations of those webpages, and also one more for Mintiper's Chapbook. I guess it will be hard to find that then, only if I can recover that external HD data, but I am not sure if it is there... Thank You, at least I have tried. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 22 Jun 2021 : 21:16:45
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quote:
Originally posted by MilosGulan
Ok, then maybe they were unofficial, but they were done really good and they looked like those webpages from WoTC site, just with different numbers. Maybe I was wrong but I remember that I had PDF compilations of those webpages, and also one more for Mintiper's Chapbook. I guess it will be hard to find that then, only if I can recover that external HD data, but I am not sure if it is there... Thank You, at least I have tried.
If you find them online somewhere, I'd not mind seeing them. |
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MilosGulan
Acolyte
Croatia
7 Posts |
Posted - 23 Jun 2021 : 06:13:32
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| Sure, but for a year or more I have been trying to find them somehow. I don't know what to do except to try on Dragonsfoot maybe. If I don't find them on my external HD that doesn't work anymore I doubt I will be able to find them online. As I have said those were really great 2e stats for those dragons and could be used for playing. My group have started with 1e but now still plays 2e, I have been DM-ing online too (Roll20 and mostly Ruins of Castle Greyhawk) but I am mostly into FR and my tabletop group too... I guess other option would be to convert 3e stats of Wyrms of the North to 2e or to do my own. Anyway I will stay here and try do what I can. As I have said I was around for long time as this was my favorite FR place, but somehow only now have joined the forum. |
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The Arcanamach
Master of Realmslore
1842 Posts |
Posted - 29 Jun 2021 : 06:34:32
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| George is correct. All entries for the Wyrms of the North are post year 2000 (the year 3e was released) so there weren't any stats for 2e versions. I'd love to see them myself, but, honestly, I use 3e monsters in 5e (and have done the same in 2e games I've run) and it is more seamless than you may realize. |
I have a dream that one day, all game worlds will exist as one. |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2388 Posts |
Posted - 30 Jun 2021 : 21:18:43
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The original Wyrms of the North articles were in Dragon. Mostly in AD&D2 era.
I'm not sure there were any stats, however. A few of those articles pop in search, but the only game-mechanical data are spells.
If you want to retro-convert, perhaps it's the easiest to start at differences with respective "generic" dragon stats. And maybe rules from Council of Wyrms could help. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
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MilosGulan
Acolyte
Croatia
7 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2021 : 19:41:38
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| I think I would rather do my own dragons. But I had those stats... I will wait few months for this heat to pass, and will try to prepare for tabletop game. I still hope they will be on that old HD. |
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TomCosta
Forgotten Realms Designer
USA
954 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jul 2021 : 20:27:51
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| While I was sure George and others were correct, out of curiosity, I double checked and the 2e articles did not include stats, just the new spells. Neither, btw, did the dragons in Cult of the Dragon, which mirrored the style a bit. That said, the the 3E WotC website did include 3E stats here: http://archive.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/archfr/wn. And 3E Dragons of Faerun further updated all of of the articles and did include updated 3.5e stats for some. |
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Wyrms of the North, with 2e stats needed
