| Author |
 Topic  |
|
|
Strixy1374
Acolyte
9 Posts |
 Posted - 29 May 2021 : 22:25:13
|
|
Does Tymora ever manifest her disfavor? If so, how?
|
Thief: I carefully turn the pick counter-clockwise...
Barbarian: I put my foot over the thief's shoulder.
Thief: WTH?
Barbarian: I'm a barbarian. Deal with it |
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 29 May 2021 : 23:16:18
|
quote:
Originally posted by Strixy1374
Does Tymora ever manifest her disfavor? If so, how?
Kind of a tricky one, there -- since bad luck would be the obvious thing, but that's not her gig.
We have this, from Faiths & Avatars:
quote:
When manifesting on Faerūn, Tymora often takes the form of a silver bird or a silver pegasus. She also sends servant creatures to aid mortals in these shapes, as well as those of einheriar, faerie dragons, foo lions, swanmays, and unicorns. When showing her favor for a particularly blessed gambler, she has sometimes been known to manifest as a silver glow about a gambler that is evident only to that person and not those around him or her. When this happens, something favorable will happen in regard to the wager, whether it is the wagerer being more likely to win or even the bet being forced to be called off, in cases where the bet was rigged by the opposition.
I would say that her disfavor would be shown in one of two ways: One is that either the disfavored person sees that silvery glow around someone else, and/or everyone around that disfavored person suddenly has some incredible luck.
The other way would be for one of those servant creatures to show up and in some way indicate displeasure. Maybe an einheriar that can only be seen by the disfavored person just silent stands there, glaring at them. Maybe a faerie dragon shows up and harasses the disfavored person with a lot of annoying pranks. Maybe a foo lion appears, leaps to attack, knocks the person down, and then disappears. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen!  |
 |
|
|
SaMoCon
Senior Scribe
USA
403 Posts |
Posted - 30 May 2021 : 12:36:49
|
| Tymora is one half of the goddess of fortune, Tyche. As such, she is inexorably intertwined with her other half, Beshaba. Good luck & bad luck - you can have one or the other or none at all. Having the favor of either goddess means things will generally go well. Having the disfavor of either goddess means things will generally go poorly. The manifestation is always in the results. Alternatively, based on the number of gamblers rationalizing their losses whom have said this, they could be on a roll to win big and "Lady Luck abandoned me." What greater display of disfavor is there than to be lead on to bigger & riskier wagers by a seeming streak of fortuitous results only to have the divine luck withdrawn when it really counts. Or worse, the luck shifts to the other side. From a mortal's perspective, it is hard to figure such results as being the work of Tymora, Beshaba, both, or neither but such is the fickle nature of luck. |
Make the best use of the system that's there, then modify the mechanics that don't allow you to have the fun you are looking for. |
|
|
|
sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11695 Posts |
Posted - 30 May 2021 : 15:38:05
|
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Strixy1374
Does Tymora ever manifest her disfavor? If so, how?
I would say that her disfavor would be shown in one of two ways: One is that either the disfavored person sees that silvery glow around someone else, and/or everyone around that disfavored person suddenly has some incredible luck.
Hmmmm, yes, that's a good one. Every time the person places a bet, another person is incredibly lucky. If its five people playing poker in a casino, a random player just gets an amazing hand. The person watches the aura move from person to person until they realize it's "the passing of luck".... then the light settles on them and they decide to go all in.... only to realize it's just a light and they lose it all because of their OWN "cheating" actions and assumptions. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
|
|
|
Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7969 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2021 : 02:26:10
|
Tymora is a greater power, Beshaba is a lesser power.
Tymora could simply direct/invoke Beshaba's attentions towards those she disfavors. A lesser power wouldn't ignore such imperatives lightly. |
[/Ayrik] |
|
|
|
HighOne
Learned Scribe
214 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2021 : 02:48:40
|
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Tymora is a greater power, Beshaba is a lesser power.
Tymora could simply direct/invoke Beshaba's attentions towards those she disfavors. A lesser power wouldn't ignore such imperatives lightly.
They're both intermediate deities in 3E and in Faiths & Avatars.
I think Beshaba was described as a lesser power in some AD&D sources, but I've never seen Tymora described as a greater power. |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 03 Jun 2021 : 03:44:38
|
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Tymora is a greater power, Beshaba is a lesser power.
Tymora could simply direct/invoke Beshaba's attentions towards those she disfavors. A lesser power wouldn't ignore such imperatives lightly.
Why would Beshaba do anything for Tymora? Power levels are immaterial -- they hate each other and are as likely to cooperate as Malar and Siamorphe. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7969 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2021 : 02:25:09
|
| They hate each other but are also linked in a weird overlapping following synergy. Tymora's Fate described what can happen when the two goddesses fail to attend their stations. Can't flip a coin (no matter how stacked the odds might be) if it only has one side. |
[/Ayrik] |
|
|
|
TBeholder
Great Reader
2382 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2021 : 05:54:26
|
Favor to the rivals indeed. Or more subtly: everything becomes a zero-sum drudge.
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
are as likely to cooperate as Malar and Siamorphe.
Malar and Siamorphe are much more likely to cooperate. They have an important area of shared interests.
In absence of military action proper, nobles have to keep up some degree of martial prowess. The common way to at least occasionally test and show it is, of course, hunting suitably formidable beasts. Which is tied to traditions, logistics and status. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2021 : 11:15:19
|
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
Favor to the rivals indeed. Or more subtly: everything becomes a zero-sum drudge.
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
are as likely to cooperate as Malar and Siamorphe.
Malar and Siamorphe are much more likely to cooperate. They have an important area of shared interests.
In absence of military action proper, nobles have to keep up some degree of martial prowess. The common way to at least occasionally test and show it is, of course, hunting suitably formidable beasts. Which is tied to traditions, logistics and status.
Malar doesn't give an osquip's behind about nobles. And there is no need for nobility to keep up martial prowess -- it's all about money and bloodlines.
And there is absolutely no need for Siamorphe and Malar to cooperate for nobles to hunt. Siamorphe may care about traditions and logistics, but Malar only cares for the hunt itself -- he doesn't care if the hunter is prepared, only that they're hunting. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 04 Jun 2021 : 11:16:54
|
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
They hate each other but are also linked in a weird overlapping following synergy. Tymora's Fate described what can happen when the two goddesses fail to attend their stations. Can't flip a coin (no matter how stacked the odds might be) if it only has one side.
Yes, but the novel also showed people getting an abundance of good luck or bad -- there was no cooperation needed for that. And as pointed out previously, Tymora doesn't need to cause bad luck to show disfavor -- she could just stay entirely in her own lane and favor someone else. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
|
|
|
TBeholder
Great Reader
2382 Posts |
Posted - 11 Jun 2021 : 13:10:49
|
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
And there is no need for nobility to keep up martial prowess -- it's all about money and bloodlines.
Demands of the niche. Any deity and priests thereof need to answer the question: "why should they matter?". This answer must be obvious (as the question is implicit), and clear a very high threshold for worship.
The foremost problem subjects usually expect their prospective rulers to mostly solve for them is good old physical security. Why are these nobles "better" than random rich merchants, if not as military aristocracy? And since Siamorphe matters no more than they do... Confidence in the "proper" aristocracy being able and willing to protect is vital. When not put to a real test by war, brigands, or monsters, it's shown in simulations: tournaments and hunts. Tournaments have limited frequency, limited scope and high prerequisites...
quote:
And there is absolutely no need for Siamorphe and Malar to cooperate for nobles to hunt. Siamorphe may care about traditions and logistics, but Malar only cares for the hunt itself -- he doesn't care if the hunter is prepared, only that they're hunting.
The concerns are that the show must go on, and must be as popular as possible.
Malar's priests, for one, have guidelines like Gospel of Saernclaws. And since specifically Malarites have limited acceptance beyond "must hunt to get through a winter" circles, openings for support of high-status humans are valuable. |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
|
|
| |
Topic |
|
Tymora's Disfavor
