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Erevan Illesere
Acolyte
Italy
38 Posts |
 Posted - 11 Apr 2021 : 15:19:51
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Why is free magic casting less tolerated in places south of the sword coast like athkatla compared to Baldur's gate, Neverwinter and Waterdeep? I'm surprised there aren't more organisations like the cowled wizards in the north.
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Jack of blades |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7966 Posts |
Posted - 11 Apr 2021 : 17:41:19
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Do some word substitution ...
replace "free magic casting" with "guns" or "gun laws"
replace"athkatla" with "Mexico" or "Canada" or "Texas"
replace "Baldur's Gate", "Neverwinter", "Waterdeep" with "Los Angelos", "Seattle", "New York"
replace "Cowled Wizards" with "shooting clubs", "activists", or "NRA"
Suddenly the question basically answers itself through shifted context. It's really asking about different expectations from different cultures, politics, history, laws ... things which people and government polities often disagree about quite passionately. |
[/Ayrik] |
Edited by - Ayrik on 11 Apr 2021 17:44:06 |
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bloodtide_the_red
Learned Scribe
USA
297 Posts |
Posted - 11 Apr 2021 : 18:00:35
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Basically the South is the civilized safe lands, and the North is the wild wilderness lands. The South is the east coast of the US in the 19th century, with the North as the Wild West. The South has slightly less monsters, and a lot less 'hordes' of humanoids...while the North is full of them.
Also the South is full of Old nations with lots of history....and with that you get tons and tons and tons of laws. The North of new places with slight history has few laws. |
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Erevan Illesere
Acolyte
Italy
38 Posts |
Posted - 11 Apr 2021 : 18:01:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Do some word substitution ...
replace "free magic casting" with "guns" or "gun laws"
replace"athkatla" with "Mexico" or "Canada" or "Texas"
replace "Baldur's Gate", "Neverwinter", "Waterdeep" with "Los Angelos", "Seattle", "New York"
replace "Cowled Wizards" with "shooting clubs", "activists", or "NRA"
Suddenly the question basically answers itself through shifted context. It's really asking about different expectations from different cultures, politics, history, laws ... things which people and government polities often disagree about quite passionately.
That answer is hilarious XD
But jokes aside I understand that maybe its just a different culture responding to a common problem differently but I was wondering if Amn historically had trouble with wizards. Maybe a wizard takeover like in Thay |
Jack of blades |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2382 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2021 : 12:18:04
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
Do some word substitution ...
replace "free magic casting" with "guns" or "gun laws"
[ . . . ]
replace "Cowled Wizards" with [ . . . ] "NRA"
Suddenly the question basically answers itself through shifted context.
Well, yeah. It's about power. Isn't it always.
But, Cowled Wizards as a loyal (i.e. fake) opposition?
I didn't think about them this way, but it makes perfect sense if they'll end up like this. This would be a... very Amnian thing to do.
The difference being that CW would stabilize the power structure via neutralizing external enemies rather than internal malcontents.
After all, the Cowled Wizards's high-ups and Council already had their membership overlap.
quote:
Lands Of Intrigue Book Two: Amn:
The first Meisarch and the founder of the Council, Thayze Selemchant became a petty, jaded laggard once he gained power. [ . . . ] He was also a high-ranked member of the outlawed Cowled Wizards
[ . . . ]
Though she does not realize the extent of the manipula-
tions, Tyrda does know that she is on the Council primarily to
act as the government's control over the Cowled Wizards.
And so on. Lots of them hold formal power on city level.
After a while, the faction struggles should cool down, eventually this will allow simple bargaining. Amnians like to haggle, after all. So there will be a representative entitled to make an "unofficially official" peace treaty.
Now, once they make a peace with the government, how is it a good enough reason to let a perfectly good secret society go to waste?
They'd risk losing leverage. Or the rest could splinter and go after them.
No. It's their capital, it must be preserved and milked for all its worth.
So...
Dear Calishites, Luskanites, Kraken Society, Knights of the Shield, Zhents, assorted merchant cabals and other grasping power of Western Faerun! You can always invest into a little coup in Amn!
Unfortunately, there will be delays, non-catastrophic setbacks due to caught stooges and so on. This project will never, ever, achieve anything against Amn's interests.
The Cowled Wizards will mooch on you until you get a clue or tire of this, and cut your losses.
Oh, and if you'll try to do it your own way, you'll swiftly discover just how much your bumbling "allies" managed to learn.
I like it! |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
Edited by - TBeholder on 13 Apr 2021 13:12:26 |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11690 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2021 : 12:25:40
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| Ah, its all bring secretly run by Nimbral, just the people don't know it because of all the lies. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2021 : 14:33:58
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Ah, its all bring secretly run by Nimbral, just the people don't know it because of all the lies.
I am obligated to advance my own personal Realms conspiracy theory: It's actually halflings calling the shots. Specifically, the group known as Halfling Inc.
Gotta keep an eye on those little buggers.  |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
Edited by - Wooly Rupert on 13 Apr 2021 14:34:21 |
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Ayrik
Great Reader
Canada
7966 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2021 : 17:34:32
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| The halflings are just dupes. The real puppetmasters are the gnomes. Greedy banking gnomes. Always the gnomes. |
[/Ayrik] |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 13 Apr 2021 : 18:48:30
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quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
The halflings are just dupes. The real puppetmasters are the gnomes. Greedy banking gnomes. Always the gnomes.
Meh, gnomes only think they're puppetmasters. It's the Flumph Consortium that's pulling their strings. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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TBeholder
Great Reader
2382 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2021 : 05:11:17
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
Ah, its all bring secretly run by Nimbral, just the people don't know it because of all the lies.
A great example of how such things work. In that even this would not substantially change anything in the long run.
So a bunch of foreign Leirans starts it for nightsoil and guffaws, sure, why not. Recruit the locals.
Then, how would they keep coherent command and control at range while constantly bullshitting everyone, including each other? They couldn't.
Would their friends back in Nimbral provide long term support, rather than moving onto some other thing? They wouldn't.
So one way or another, this group would be in this for itself, with increasingly local membership, and would be shaped by their circumstances and interactions just like any other faction.
By the time the second generation signs in, even if they plainly admit it, anything to the effect of "pssst, the whole Cowled thing is all a free-form theater performance started the Nimbrese wizards, really!" would be indistinguishable from any other old series of jokes (which is a... very Leirans thing, after all).
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Meh, gnomes only think they're puppetmasters. It's the Flumph Consortium that's pulling their strings.
Did you guys miss that article in Forging the Realms? 
When comes to conspiracies and secret societies, the default answer is always "All of these. And then some more." Hence the results.
Then there are places like Waterdeep, which produces conspiracies much like "other places grow corn or barley", as Laeral put it. Even if mostly not for export... |
People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch |
Edited by - TBeholder on 14 Apr 2021 05:12:04 |
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Demzer
Senior Scribe
873 Posts |
Posted - 14 Apr 2021 : 14:37:51
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quote:
Originally posted by Erevan Illesere
That answer is hilarious XD
But jokes aside I understand that maybe its just a different culture responding to a common problem differently but I was wondering if Amn historically had trouble with wizards. Maybe a wizard takeover like in Thay
Well there are some historical reasons for mistrust of magic users and the general population is not too happy about spellslingers.
The region has historically developed as satellite states of the Shoon Imperium which was at its worst when led by spellcasters. And that's kind of a "throughout time" condition.
Then they had problems with (pardon me the gamey jargon) "casters" going as far back as with Ihundyl the "Mad Mage" (in 223-238) up to the most recent (and still remembered) School of Wonder blow up of 1266.
quote:
Originally posted by TBeholder
But, Cowled Wizards as a loyal (i.e. fake) opposition?
I didn't think about them this way, but it makes perfect sense if they'll end up like this. This would be a... very Amnian thing to do.
The difference being that CW would stabilize the power structure via neutralizing external enemies rather than internal malcontents.
After all, the Cowled Wizards's high-ups and Council already had their membership overlap.
That's how it is for me.
I've been heavily influenced by the way the Cowled Wizards are portrayed in BG II as "magic police" joining forces with regular enforcers in Athkatla. And the source material you cited leaves the door open for a not-so-secret collaboration between the Cowled Wizards and the Council of Six (just as the source material implies the Shadow Thieves are used by the Council) to keep magical outsiders out of their playground. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11690 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2021 : 12:39:15
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
The halflings are just dupes. The real puppetmasters are the gnomes. Greedy banking gnomes. Always the gnomes.
Meh, gnomes only think they're puppetmasters. It's the Flumph Consortium that's pulling their strings.
How much involvement do the awakened almiraj tribes of Chult that were psionically endowed by Auppenser have with mind controlling the Flumph Consortium now? |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 15 Apr 2021 : 18:39:55
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quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
The halflings are just dupes. The real puppetmasters are the gnomes. Greedy banking gnomes. Always the gnomes.
Meh, gnomes only think they're puppetmasters. It's the Flumph Consortium that's pulling their strings.
How much involvement do the awakened almiraj tribes of Chult that were psionically endowed by Auppenser have with mind controlling the Flumph Consortium now?
None at all. It amuses the Flumph Consortium to watch the almiraj think they're accomplishing something. |
Candlekeep Forums Moderator
Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
http://www.candlekeep.com -- Candlekeep Forum Code of Conduct
I am the Giant Space Hamster of Ill Omen! |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11690 Posts |
Posted - 16 Apr 2021 : 02:38:18
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by sleyvas
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Ayrik
The halflings are just dupes. The real puppetmasters are the gnomes. Greedy banking gnomes. Always the gnomes.
Meh, gnomes only think they're puppetmasters. It's the Flumph Consortium that's pulling their strings.
How much involvement do the awakened almiraj tribes of Chult that were psionically endowed by Auppenser have with mind controlling the Flumph Consortium now?
None at all. It amuses the Flumph Consortium to watch the almiraj think they're accomplishing something.
Lol, yeah, they do have a tendency to get distracted with breeding.... darn almiraj. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Free magic casting laws in Athkatla
