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Azar
Master of Realmslore
1286 Posts |
 Posted - 28 Feb 2022 : 03:29:19
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Azar
I must say that I am pleasantly surprised at the reception thus far. So...there IS a place for punny names in a generally serious tabletop gaming campaign as long as they require some effort to "unpack" and/or sound simultaneously natural?
To be honest, I don't like it. But to each his own, and all that... And I can still participate in a thought exercise about something, even if I don't like it.
Well, think on this: going by the law of averages, you yourself have likely come across a punny name and didn't "get" it because the reference was obscure. |
Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.
Earth names in the Realms are more common than you may think. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 28 Feb 2022 : 04:53:02
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quote:
Originally posted by Azar
Well, think on this: going by the law of averages, you yourself have likely come across a punny name and didn't "get" it because the reference was obscure.
It's likely. It took me a while to catch the name Bistro Battenrooj.
Really, it's all about whether or not the pun or reference draws attention to itself.
I've an author friend who dropped a reference to an inside joke in one of her novels. Even knowing it's there (I suggested it, somewhat in jest), it's still barely noticeable. Maybe two dozen people would get the reference.
Something like the Scarlet Marpenoth, though? That doesn't just draw attention to itself, it's got a huge sign pointing to it saying "POP CULTURE REFERENCE HERE!!!" Even if you don't get the joke, it's still drawing attention to itself, by how out-of-place it is.
But then again, that's all my personal opinion. Piers Anthony is proof that some people love the puns and such in their fantasy. |
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Azar
Master of Realmslore
1286 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2022 : 01:04:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Something like the Scarlet Marpenoth, though? That doesn't just draw attention to itself, it's got a huge sign pointing to it saying "POP CULTURE REFERENCE HERE!!!" Even if you don't get the joke, it's still drawing attention to itself, by how out-of-place it is.
This is the second time (at least) that you've dropped that name; should I be concerned that I am either too dense or too much of a philistine to comprehend its true meaning  ? |
Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.
Earth names in the Realms are more common than you may think. |
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HighOne
Learned Scribe
214 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2022 : 02:16:17
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quote:
Originally posted by Azar
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Something like the Scarlet Marpenoth, though? That doesn't just draw attention to itself, it's got a huge sign pointing to it saying "POP CULTURE REFERENCE HERE!!!" Even if you don't get the joke, it's still drawing attention to itself, by how out-of-place it is.
This is the second time (at least) that you've dropped that name; should I be concerned that I am either too dense or too much of a philistine to comprehend its true meaning ?
It's a reference to The Hunt for Red October, a John Clancy novel. Scarlet is a shade of red, and Marpenoth is the 10th month of the Harptos calendar. "Red October" is the name of a submarine in the Clancy novel, and the Scarlet Marpenoth, which appears in Waterdeep: Dragon Heist, is also a submarine of sorts. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2022 : 03:56:47
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quote:
Originally posted by HighOne
It's a reference to The Hunt for Red October, a John Clancy novel. Scarlet is a shade of red, and Marpenoth is the 10th month of the Harptos calendar. "Red October" is the name of a submarine in the Clancy novel, and the Scarlet Marpenoth, which appears in Waterdeep: Dragon Heist, is also a submarine of sorts.
Tom Clancy, actually, but otherwise correct. They also made a movie of it, with Alec Baldwin, James Earl Jones, and Sean Connery as Captain Marko Ramius. I don't recall being particularly impressed by the movie, but the book is one I'd highly recommend. |
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Azar
Master of Realmslore
1286 Posts |
Posted - 07 Mar 2022 : 07:26:29
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quote:
Originally posted by HighOne
quote:
Originally posted by Azar
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
Something like the Scarlet Marpenoth, though? That doesn't just draw attention to itself, it's got a huge sign pointing to it saying "POP CULTURE REFERENCE HERE!!!" Even if you don't get the joke, it's still drawing attention to itself, by how out-of-place it is.
This is the second time (at least) that you've dropped that name; should I be concerned that I am either too dense or too much of a philistine to comprehend its true meaning ?
It's a reference to The Hunt for Red October, a John Clancy novel. Scarlet is a shade of red, and Marpenoth is the 10th month of the Harptos calendar. "Red October" is the name of a submarine in the Clancy novel, and the Scarlet Marpenoth, which appears in Waterdeep: Dragon Heist, is also a submarine of sorts.
Noooooooooooooooooooooo. Why did you spoil the illusion? What is now seen cannot be unseen. |
Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.
Earth names in the Realms are more common than you may think. |
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Varl
Learned Scribe
USA
284 Posts |
Posted - 12 Mar 2022 : 13:31:02
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| I'm a fan of the random generators out there whenever I get stuck on naming people. As for earlier comments about seeing a name and not realizing it was a real Terran name, I used to thumb through phone books (kids, those were real at one time!) and see last names of people that would make terrific names for characters and NPCs. Since phone books have become extinct, I resort to online generators or simple programs (Everchanging book of names, for one, which amazingly, still functions under Windows 10 without an emulator). |
I'm on a permanent vacation to the soul. -Tash Sultana |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 12 Mar 2022 : 16:07:10
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quote:
Originally posted by Varl
I'm a fan of the random generators out there whenever I get stuck on naming people. As for earlier comments about seeing a name and not realizing it was a real Terran name, I used to thumb through phone books (kids, those were real at one time!) and see last names of people that would make terrific names for characters and NPCs. Since phone books have become extinct, I resort to online generators or simple programs (Everchanging book of names, for one, which amazingly, still functions under Windows 10 without an emulator).
A friend and I were at IKEA, once, noticing the names of things there could be used for D&D characters. |
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Azar
Master of Realmslore
1286 Posts |
Posted - 12 Mar 2022 : 19:20:53
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quote:
Originally posted by Varl
I'm a fan of the random generators out there whenever I get stuck on naming people. As for earlier comments about seeing a name and not realizing it was a real Terran name, I used to thumb through phone books (kids, those were real at one time!) and see last names of people that would make terrific names for characters and NPCs. Since phone books have become extinct, I resort to online generators or simple programs (Everchanging book of names, for one, which amazingly, still functions under Windows 10 without an emulator).
It is certainly possible that you just sparked off a market for used phone books  . |
Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.
Earth names in the Realms are more common than you may think. |
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Azar
Master of Realmslore
1286 Posts |
Posted - 09 May 2022 : 00:58:31
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I found three more Simons.
* Simon Stonebreaker (a Dwarf  ) in the Shadowdale supplement of the AD&D 2e Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting Box Set.
* Simon Thrithyn in Volo's Guide to Waterdeep.
* Simon Dessino in both The Vilhon Reach and the 3e Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting.
It ought to be noted that Ed Greenwood was involved with three out of the four above products and he alone wrote Volo's Guide to Waterdeep. |
Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.
Earth names in the Realms are more common than you may think. |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6645 Posts |
Posted - 10 May 2022 : 10:17:43
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quote:
Originally posted by Azar
I found three more Simons.
* Simon Stonebreaker (a Dwarf ) in the Shadowdale supplement of the AD&D 2e Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting Box Set.
* Simon Thrithyn in Volo's Guide to Waterdeep.
* Simon Dessino in both The Vilhon Reach and the 3e Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting.
It ought to be noted that Ed Greenwood was involved with three out of the four above products and he alone wrote Volo's Guide to Waterdeep.
In the Realms it might be Si-mon as opposed to Sigh-mon.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore
USA
1289 Posts |
Posted - 10 May 2022 : 14:46:44
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
quote:
Originally posted by Azar
I found three more Simons.
* Simon Stonebreaker (a Dwarf ) in the Shadowdale supplement of the AD&D 2e Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting Box Set.
* Simon Thrithyn in Volo's Guide to Waterdeep.
* Simon Dessino in both The Vilhon Reach and the 3e Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting.
It ought to be noted that Ed Greenwood was involved with three out of the four above products and he alone wrote Volo's Guide to Waterdeep.
In the Realms it might be Si-mon as opposed to Sigh-mon.
-- George Krashos
Having grown up in a multicultural environment, I have heard it pronounced both ways so that would be a mundane name in my experience. |
"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."
My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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Azar
Master of Realmslore
1286 Posts |
Posted - 10 May 2022 : 17:15:50
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
quote:
Originally posted by Azar
I found three more Simons.
* Simon Stonebreaker (a Dwarf ) in the Shadowdale supplement of the AD&D 2e Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting Box Set.
* Simon Thrithyn in Volo's Guide to Waterdeep.
* Simon Dessino in both The Vilhon Reach and the 3e Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting.
It ought to be noted that Ed Greenwood was involved with three out of the four above products and he alone wrote Volo's Guide to Waterdeep.
In the Realms it might be Si-mon as opposed to Sigh-mon.
-- George Krashos
In The Forgotten Realms, are there canonical examples of grammatically identical "Earth names" that possess alternative pronunciations? |
Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.
Earth names in the Realms are more common than you may think. |
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sleyvas
Skilled Spell Strategist
USA
11695 Posts |
Posted - 10 May 2022 : 18:28:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Varl
I'm a fan of the random generators out there whenever I get stuck on naming people. As for earlier comments about seeing a name and not realizing it was a real Terran name, I used to thumb through phone books (kids, those were real at one time!) and see last names of people that would make terrific names for characters and NPCs. Since phone books have become extinct, I resort to online generators or simple programs (Everchanging book of names, for one, which amazingly, still functions under Windows 10 without an emulator).
A friend and I were at IKEA, once, noticing the names of things there could be used for D&D characters.
While the gazebo is a well known demon, a pergola is much less well known, but infinitely more dangerous. But you should really fear a pagoda. |
Alavairthae, may your skill prevail
Phillip aka Sleyvas |
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Azar
Master of Realmslore
1286 Posts |
Posted - 14 Jun 2022 : 22:35:57
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| How many waves is the name "Ambrosia" likely to create in the Realms? I was contemplating giving a demihuman NPC a surname that includes "Ambrosia" as part of its construction. However, the word itself is of real-world Greek origin, so... |
Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.
Earth names in the Realms are more common than you may think. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2022 : 01:21:05
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quote:
Originally posted by Azar
How many waves is the name "Ambrosia" likely to create in the Realms? I was contemplating giving a demihuman NPC a surname that includes "Ambrosia" as part of its construction. However, the word itself is of real-world Greek origin, so...
In-setting, no one would blink.
For the players, your milage may vary. The word is likely to be at least somewhat familiar to a lot of gamers, so it comes down to their individual opinions on real-world names and such, in game.
I, personally, wouldn't be overly keen on it, but it wouldn't be the worst thing I've seen. |
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Eldacar
Senior Scribe
438 Posts |
Posted - 15 Jun 2022 : 01:37:56
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quote:
Originally posted by Azar
How many waves is the name "Ambrosia" likely to create in the Realms? I was contemplating giving a demihuman NPC a surname that includes "Ambrosia" as part of its construction. However, the word itself is of real-world Greek origin, so...
I don’t see any issue with using it, and I am fairly deeply immersed in Greek mythology. My reaction also may not be the reaction of most, of course. |
"The Wild Mages I have met exhibit a startling disregard for common sense, and are often meddling with powers far beyond their own control." ~Volo
"Not unlike a certain travelogue author with whom I am unfortunately acquainted." ~Elminster |
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Azar
Master of Realmslore
1286 Posts |
Posted - 20 Jun 2022 : 20:42:33
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There are three canon references in the Realms: Canticle, Prince of Lies and the Baldur's Gate CRPG (albeit one made by a mad character, but...). Anyhow, back in AD&D 2e, if you go by the Planescape lore, then - funnily enough - both the Seldarine and Olympians share the same outer plane; it is not exactly impossible that the former group tried ambrosia at some point.
I considered "mead", but mead overall comes across as more prosaic and less fantastic. |
Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.
Earth names in the Realms are more common than you may think. |
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Azar
Master of Realmslore
1286 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2022 : 00:50:24
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quote:
Originally posted by HighOne
The worst example I can think of is Donaldson's Thomas Covenant series, which includes a character named Lord Kevin. I mean really, Lord Kevin? "Kevin" is a name that brings to mind people you know at work and at school, not heroic, Arthurian kings.
There was a "Kevan" in Game of Thrones. No bueno? |
Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.
Earth names in the Realms are more common than you may think. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2022 : 01:34:23
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quote:
Originally posted by Azar
quote:
Originally posted by HighOne
The worst example I can think of is Donaldson's Thomas Covenant series, which includes a character named Lord Kevin. I mean really, Lord Kevin? "Kevin" is a name that brings to mind people you know at work and at school, not heroic, Arthurian kings.
There was a "Kevan" in Game of Thrones. No bueno?
The Game of Thrones series also has characters named after Muppets. Kermit Tully was the brother of Oscar Tully; their father was Elmo and their great-grandfather was Grover. |
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Azar
Master of Realmslore
1286 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2022 : 02:09:36
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quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
quote:
Originally posted by Azar
quote:
Originally posted by HighOne
The worst example I can think of is Donaldson's Thomas Covenant series, which includes a character named Lord Kevin. I mean really, Lord Kevin? "Kevin" is a name that brings to mind people you know at work and at school, not heroic, Arthurian kings.
There was a "Kevan" in Game of Thrones. No bueno?
The Game of Thrones series also has characters named after Muppets. Kermit Tully was the brother of Oscar Tully; their father was Elmo and their great-grandfather was Grover.
Is that band of eccentric characters exclusive to the novels  ? Out of sheer curiosity, I watched the live-action adaptation in its entirety with someone else (an individual similarly uninitiated); I intend to never sit through it again. Anyhow, if there was a Kermit the Frog or the trashcan guy on the TV show, they must have been chilling in the background.
By the way, this tangent was started because I remember thinking to myself "Kevin? That is an exceedingly plain name for a man of his station.". After conducting minimal research (as in, visiting the first website that popped up), I learned that George apparently pulled the old "vowel switcheroo" on Tywin's brother. |
Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.
Earth names in the Realms are more common than you may think. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 09 Sep 2022 : 03:51:06
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quote:
Originally posted by Azar
By the way, this tangent was started because I remember thinking to myself "Kevin? That is an exceedingly plain name for a man of his station.". After conducting minimal research (as in, visiting the first website that popped up), I learned that George apparently pulled the old "vowel switcheroo" on Tywin's brother.
A vowel switch can make for a new fantasy name, but it has to be something with a noticeably different sound. Kevin and Kevan aren't all that different, unless you're putting emphasis on the second syllable. Kovon might work, or Kuvan...
Changing a consonant works better, though, in my opinion. Jevan has much more of a fantasy sound than Kevan. I've mentioned Jevicca, before, from the Ptolus campaign. You could do Daven instead of David, Arex instead of Alex... So many possibilities, with just a letter or two. |
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Azar
Master of Realmslore
1286 Posts |
Posted - 22 Oct 2022 : 10:22:38
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In Kidnapped (TSR 9590), I found a "Mikhail" (an eight year-old boy), a "Ben" (1st-level Fighter), a "Hiram" (11th-level Thief...and an alias), a "William Hill" (5th-level Fighter), another "Clive" (4th-level Thief), another "Bartholomew"/"Bartholomew Biggs" (7th-level Fighter), an "Oscar" (3rd-level Thief) and a "Max" (4th-level Fighter). Yes, all of these NPCs are Human.
Also, in that same supplement, there is a Halfling (2nd-level Fighter) by the name of "Winslow". |
Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.
Earth names in the Realms are more common than you may think. |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 22 Oct 2022 : 15:45:36
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Ugh, that's bad.
Upon reflection... I guess you can use the known connections between Earth and the Realms to explain the odd Earth or Earth-similar name. But I'd expect those names to be like non-PHB races: you might find one here or there, but the odds of finding multiple ones, all in the same place, should be astronomically low. |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6645 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2022 : 01:07:09
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quote:
Originally posted by Azar
In Kidnapped (TSR 9590), I found a "Mikhail" (an eight year-old boy), a "Ben" (1st-level Fighter), a "Hiram" (11th-level Thief...and an alias), a "William Hill" (5th-level Fighter), another "Clive" (4th-level Thief), another "Bartholomew"/"Bartholomew Biggs" (7th-level Fighter), an "Oscar" (3rd-level Thief) and a "Max" (4th-level Fighter). Yes, all of these NPCs are Human.
Also, in that same supplement, there is a Halfling (2nd-level Fighter) by the name of "Winslow".
Kidnapped is a child of the RPGA where fan content was lauded - and clearly not vetted and edited for Realms-fit. The Living City stuff is notorious for bad puns, RW names and allowing amateur fans to flex their somewhat random creative skills. The results, as with all such things, were variable.
And please, I lump myself in the amateur fans category. But I have had the significant benefit of better mentors and tougher critics that what other individuals had back in the day. And even then, I look at some of the stuff I've done and cringe from time to time.
But to hold to the theme of this thread, I can't stress enough that names are important. Super important. Think up, beg, borrow or steal good ones and you have a solid platform for your stuff.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
USA
36779 Posts |
Posted - 23 Oct 2022 : 03:11:36
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quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
quote:
Originally posted by Azar
In Kidnapped (TSR 9590), I found a "Mikhail" (an eight year-old boy), a "Ben" (1st-level Fighter), a "Hiram" (11th-level Thief...and an alias), a "William Hill" (5th-level Fighter), another "Clive" (4th-level Thief), another "Bartholomew"/"Bartholomew Biggs" (7th-level Fighter), an "Oscar" (3rd-level Thief) and a "Max" (4th-level Fighter). Yes, all of these NPCs are Human.
Also, in that same supplement, there is a Halfling (2nd-level Fighter) by the name of "Winslow".
Kidnapped is a child of the RPGA where fan content was lauded - and clearly not vetted and edited for Realms-fit. The Living City stuff is notorious for bad puns, RW names and allowing amateur fans to flex their somewhat random creative skills. The results, as with all such things, were variable.
Lord Mayor Charles Oliver O'Kane. 'Nuff said.
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
And please, I lump myself in the amateur fans category. But I have had the significant benefit of better mentors and tougher critics that what other individuals had back in the day. And even then, I look at some of the stuff I've done and cringe from time to time.
I wouldn't call you an amateur fan -- some of your stuff is easily better than the stuff published by the so-called professionals.
I think it all comes down to whether or not a person is willing to make their creation fit the setting. Doesn't matter if it's a magical item or a bit of lore or an NPC -- if a person takes the time and effort to make sure something matches the flavor of the setting, and doesn't break existing canon, then they're not an amateur.
A true amateur just shoves their creation in, wherever they feel like dropping it, without regards to anything else. This is how we got Lord Mayor Charles Oliver O'Kane or the Scarlet Marpenoth or Ras Nsi somehow becoming a yuan-ti necromancer. It doesn't matter if they're paid or not, anyone who does that is an amateur.
Some of us here would be journeymen, I think. We're not professionals, but we're trying to follow in the footsteps of the masters. Some of us are further along that path than others -- and I would certainly say that you're closer to mastery than many of the other folks here. |
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Azar
Master of Realmslore
1286 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2022 : 05:05:44
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Portmanteaus/compound names fashioned from extant real-world names, anyone? There are those which are so obvious that you can easily rule them out right off the bat (e.g., Fitzpatrick or Carmichael), but how about combinations that either don't exist or are rare?
Would Carasandra/Karasandra (Cara + Sandra / Kara + Sandra) or maybe Sandracara (Sandra + Cara) be incongruent among inhabitants of The Realms? Jimtim? Jimmitim?
quote:
Originally posted by Wooly Rupert
I guess you can use the known connections between Earth and the Realms to explain the odd Earth or Earth-similar name. But I'd expect those names to be like non-PHB races: you might find one here or there, but the odds of finding multiple ones, all in the same place, should be astronomically low.
As you decrease the number of syllables in a name, you increase the chance that someone in The Realms - human or otherwise - has coined that name.
"Ed", "Al", "Kerr" and the like are not exactly complicated monikers. Odd though it may be and detestable though it may be, there very well could be a Half-Orc tough named "Jak".
quote:
Originally posted by George Krashos
Kidnapped is a child of the RPGA where fan content was lauded - and clearly not vetted and edited for Realms-fit. The Living City stuff is notorious for bad puns, RW names and allowing amateur fans to flex their somewhat random creative skills. The results, as with all such things, were variable.
Do you recommend writing off the entirety of RPGA material? |
Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.
Earth names in the Realms are more common than you may think. |
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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore
Australia
6645 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2022 : 15:37:01
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quote:
Originally posted by Azar
Do you recommend writing off the entirety of RPGA material?
No, and Ed did as best he could in the City of Ravens Bluff accessory to tidy it up, but I would be loathe to feature it in my campaign in entirety - without suitable tweaking.
-- George Krashos |
"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus |
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TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore
USA
1289 Posts |
Posted - 01 Nov 2022 : 15:59:39
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| I have found, when I needed it, that the RPGA stuff makes a fine springboard once it is tweaked a bit to fit my version of the Realms. Of course, the same thing can be said about just about anything else that has come out. It is just that some stuff needs more fine tuning than others. |
"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."
My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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Azar
Master of Realmslore
1286 Posts |
Posted - 06 Nov 2022 : 04:25:25
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| The present (i.e., 5e) monarch of Tethyr is one "Anais Rhindaun". "Anais" is a name of French origin. Keep in mind that this is Tethyr we are talking about; it's not exactly a backwater Podunk town that tends to be glossed over. |
Stand with anybody that stands right. Stand with him while he is right and part with him when he goes wrong.
Earth names in the Realms are more common than you may think. |
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NPC names: mundane versus exotic?
