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TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore

USA
1048 Posts

Posted - 12 Aug 2020 :  16:17:57  Show Profile Send TheIriaeban a Private Message  Reply with Quote
A ranger is a warrior who has specialized skills for use outside civilized areas. On the surface, he is a "skilled woodsman" (as put in the 2e PHB). There is no reason why you cannot be a ranger that is a "skilled caves-man". I could certainly see that he would need training for how the surface flora and fauna are different than things in the Underdark. And tracking is just a skill that anyone can do. It is just that a ranger typically is better at it than anyone else. The problem is that is if he has a WIS less than 14, he shouldn't be a ranger since he doesn't meet the requirements. It seems that it was decided he is a ranger since that is the closest you could get before the Player's Option stuff came out.

"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."

My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5936 Posts

Posted - 12 Aug 2020 :  20:14:28  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The impression i got was that Montolio's early lessons showed that Drizzt already knew how to form a bond with animals almost unconsciously, that is how he formed such a close bond with Guenhwyvar.

Drizzt already possessed skill at tracking, always acting as point man on any expedition in the underdark, leading the warriors to or away from danger (depending upon the level of danger).

Its not something i dwell on too much as i long departed D&D rules and my own rules allow for picking whatever abilities you want at whatever level. So a warrior or expert could choose to focus on nature, stealth, and perception skills (as well as weapon skills) to learn the ranger knowledge, they could also choose to learn magic or animal companions or anything else he fancies.


Drizzt is to my mind a warrior first and foremost. A warrior that lives in the wilderness and likes animals.

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Seravin
Master of Realmslore

Canada
1180 Posts

Posted - 12 Aug 2020 :  22:07:08  Show Profile Send Seravin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
My theory is he was a ranger because dual weilding scimitars just as the powers that be were changing rangers up for the 2nd edition D&D rules that began in 1987 and got publised in 1988 and 1989 with the Icewind Dale trilogy:
Advanced Dungeons & Dragons 2nd Edition
Rangers went through several changes in the 2nd edition. Their hit dice were changed to match fighters and paladins. Rangers could still wear any armor, but several of their new abilities required the use of light armor, including the skill to use two weapons without penalty and the thief-like abilities of move-silently and hide-in-shadows

But I agree with both of you, he's a warrior (until now he's a monk I think?)
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TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore

USA
1048 Posts

Posted - 12 Aug 2020 :  23:17:01  Show Profile Send TheIriaeban a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I had actually created a Blademaster Warrior kit to cover the sword part of the Ranger class that was based on Drizzt. I have also built out the effects of weapon and style specialization out to grandmaster for each to be able to get to the number of attacks listed for him. It costs a lot of proficiencies/Character points but it is possible. Drizzt isn't a grandmaster in both two weapon style and his weapon by my system and there IS someone better in my campaign (that is only due to Tempus and is part of a plan developed by him and the Red Knight to get rid of a certain multiple-armed irritant). The fighter in question is, of course, not aware of that.

"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."

My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5936 Posts

Posted - 13 Aug 2020 :  16:21:23  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
The parched sea is good so far, rammed full of bedine lore, and no gods which is good for me.

I did notice one minor snafu. Lander is mid 20s, the novel is set in 1360, his mother was a cyricist who died when he was 14 ish which means she worshipped cyric before the time of troubles.

This is not the first mention of cyric as a god before the ToT, some mentions talk of long ago.

Easy fix is that Cyric (like Torm and Helm) is named after a god and this one was probably a local god of the moonsea area from long ago whose worshipped died out long ago but the name persisted and remained in use.

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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5936 Posts

Posted - 14 Aug 2020 :  09:57:07  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Parched Sea (1360 DR)

Ruha Lore
Young woman, newly married to Ajaman
Ajaman, rough skin, thick moustache, young, lean, muscular, of the Qahtan tribe
Suffered visions since 3 years old. First vision was of butterflies (a plague of moths ate all the cloth in the tribe), a vision of a green meadow was solved a week later when half the tribe’s camels died from drinking at a poisoned pool.
Her father Sabkhat is the sheikh of the Mtair Dhafir tribe, a skilled camel herder, he knows of Ruha’s visions and jumped at the chance to marry her off.
Crossed hash marks tattoed on her cheeks.
Ruha’s mother died when she was five.
Can use magical spells, taught by a lonely old witch named Qoha’dar who lived at the Sister of Rains oasis. Qoha’dar died when she was 16, Ruha took her spellbooks but couldnt understand them.
Ruha sewed her favourite spells into the lining of her aba and buried the spellbooks in an ancient ruin.
Can conjure sand lions, summon wind dragons, scorch her enemies with desert heat, make a wall of wind and dust, enlarge creatures, sand whisper spell (to move silently), sand shadow spell (invisible in shadows).
The Mtair Dhafir nearly split because Ruha was allowed to stay, thankfully the Qahtan tribe arrived.
Ruha was given a jambiya by Qoha’dar on her 12th birthday.
When Qoha’dar died Ruha went to the Well of the Chasm first.
Eldath possessed Ruha at the House of the Moon (some spirit haunts there???)

Bedine Lore
Desert tribes are wary of magic
Suspected witches are cast out of their home (tent and tribe)
Only husbands can welcome guests into a khreima
Family honour is considered more valuable than a man’s life.
Families within a tribe share watch duties (on rotation)
Mtair Dhafir tribe (allied to Qahtan thanks to Ruha and Ajaman’s marriage), near El Ma’ra
Qahtan tribe, north of El Rahalat
Bordjia tribe, north of El Rahalt, allied with Qahtan, enemies of Mtair Dhafir.
Arranged marriages, males pay for wives with camels
Apricots and milk, trade goods.
During Purdah a new bride may not leave the tent (unless ordered to by her husband) and is forbidden to speak to any man other than her husband.
Other wives raise children if a mother dies (unless the family is dishonoured or the child is a witch).
Unallied tribes do not camp close together because their camels compete for pasturage.
Hot salted coffee, favoured drink of the Bedine.
At’ar the merciless, the sun goddess of the Bedine.
N’asr’s children, great white bearded vultures that the Bedine believe ferry souls to the camp of the dead. Red rimmed eyes.
N’asr the Pitiless One, lord of the dead, served by the djinn
Northern tribes ride long wooled camels
12 inch tube of dried lizard skin containing butter.
Kill those that loot the dead (dishonourable???)
Kozah, god of tempests. Kozah’s Mark, a crimson swirl in the morning sky after a dust storm (makes the days cooler, the dust swirl blocks the sun).
Kozah Is lawful husband of At’ar, but every night At’ar goes t N’asr’s tent to lie.
No Bedine tribe has used magic since the Scattering.
The Scattering, originally 3 great tribes of Bedine, these ancient tribes dreamed of ruling all people and had their sorcerers summon N’asr’s denizens (djinn???) to make war upon each other. The war destroyed the land and gave birth to Anauroch. It took the gods themselves to set the world right again, and some of them died before the carnage could be stopped. The surviving gods scattered the Three Tribes to the corners of the world and forbade them to ever use magic again.
Brushing your nose at someone is a rude insult
Rahalat, a mountain spirit of a shunned woman abandoned by her tribe. She claims El Rahalat as her home and uses magic to ward off intruders, or so the Bedine believe. She was murdered by the Dakawa tribe during a drought, and it caused the water at the oasis to become poisonous, every tribe wishing to stop at El Rahalat must sacrifice a goat to stop the water going bad. The Bitter Well is an oasis at the base of El Rahalat.
Dakawa tribe, near El Rahalat
Largest tribes are around 300 warriors max (its difficult to find food and water for more than that)
Women welcome guests to a camp (and alert their husbands) by whistling.
Women spin camels wool, mend carpets and khreimas and abas and tend to other household chores.
Bait Mahwa Tribe, near Coloured Waters
Bedine caravans ride with the youngest and most daring warriors on the fastest camels far ahead and behind the caravan to act as scouts. The rest of the warriors and their eldest sons, hunting dogs and falcons ring the caravan at a thousand yards, they use the falcons and dogs to hunt for lizards and other other animals. At the centre of the caravan are the women and children. Women and children usually walk while baggage camels carry the belongings (in times of need and to move faster the women and children can also ride camels).
Falcons used by the Bedine to hunt
Saluki dogs, used by the Bedine to hunt
Raz’hadi tribe, near the Well of the Chasm.
Men should not ride close to women that are not their wives or children.
Dried camel dung used as fuel for fire.
Battle of the Chasm, where the Bait Mahwa and Raz’hadi tribes joined together to fight Zhentarim and Asabi mercenaries. 500 Zhents and 500 Asabis slaughtered, only 200 Bedine perished.
Bedine milk camels
Bedine mix milk and blood on difficult journeys
Eldath, the Mother of Waters
Henna juice used as a dye for the khreimas (tents)
Keffiyehs decorated in different colours, stripes, and checks to denote different tribes
Some tribes wear turbans.
Ju’ur Dai tribe, turn traitor and ally with the Zhentarim and lead them to Elah’zad.
Oaths are made in blood (usually drawn from the hand)
Arrange their khreimas in a circle, all facing inward
Sheikh Didaji, tall gaunt man, swathed in a brown turban and a crimson scarf across his face. In Didaji’s tribe the men cover their mouths and the women walk without veils. Sheikh of the Dakawa tribe (his tribe is not named, Dakawa are the only tribe without a named sheikh???)
Sheikh Yatagan, toothless man with a wizened face, wears billowing light green trousers and a loose shirt covered by a green vest. Sheikh of the Shremala tribe
Their have been no true wars (that united many Bedine tribes) since the Scattering.
Poisoning a water supply is the most profane of crimes.
Water and food belongs to whoever need it (even enemies)
15 tribes in the eastern part of Anauroch
Lands around Orofin are the finest gazelle lands in Anauroch.
Frankincense used as perfume by the Bedine.
When forced to the Bedine eat raw tubers that look like white asparagus stems. Tastes like onion
Emir (an old title for ruler of huge tribes perhaps???)
Bai Kabor tribe
Binwabi tribe

Mtair Dhafir Lore
Ruha’s tribe
Ruha’s father is sheikh
Nearly split last year because Ruha’s father would not cast her out for being a witch.
Al’Aif, ferocious warrior who had killed more men than all others in the tribe. Face scarred by 4 lines caused by a lion that mauled his face. Left eye droops from a sentry’s dagger. Insisted Ruha be banished from the tribe. Very honourable
Allied to the Qahtan tribe and the Bordija tribe
Sheikh Sabkhat of Mtair Dhafir tribe, bony old man with cloudy eyes and a wispy grey beard.
Nata, Mtair tribe’s strongest man
Slaughtered by Zhentarim after Al’Aif killed Zarud


Qahtan Lore
Tribe of the Bedine, allied to the Mtair Dhafir because of Ruha and Ajaman’s marriages
Ruha, wife of Ajaman
Ajaman, son of Qahtan’s sheikh by his second wife.
Dawasir, member of the Qahtan tribe
Last year a summer drought in the north had forced the Qahtan south into the lands of the Mtair Dhafir. The Mtair Dhafir allowed them to stay if they promised to leave next summer, and if Ajaman married Ruha (forging an alliance between the tribes).
Kadumi, half brother of Ajaman (different father), 13 years old, just been on his el a’sarad, stole 10 white camels from the sheikh of the Bordija tribe. Accompanied Lander and Ruha to save the Bait Mahwa and Raz’hadi tribe. Kadumi was slain by a Zhent assassin in the Sister of Rains oasis.
Entire tribe (except Ruha and Kadumi) slaughtered by Zhent army.

Anauroch Lore
El Mara’s Crown, a yellow sandstone pinnacle over 100 ft tall, a mile outside of the Oasis. Known as El Ma'ra Dat-ur Ojhogo
El Ma’ra oasis, one of two oases within a two day ride of the Mtair Dhafir tribe.
Desert bats fly to oases at dusk to drink and hunt insects at night.
Apricot trees ring oases, then palm trees, then chenopods (perenial herbage plants like quinoa)
In the most heavily populated region of Anauroch it is unusual to meet more than 3 tribes in a year of travelling.
Distant booms and other noises are not uncommon, thought to be thunder, or the sudden sinking of a thousand ton sand dune, or the knelling alarms of long buried fortresses.
Anauroch desert 2,500 square miles, 600 miles across
Sandstorms
2 more oases within 2 days ride of El Ma’ra oasis.
El Rahalat, known as the Shunned Mountain, a large mountain with a large oasis at its base, used as a direction marker in the desert.
Lions.
Raptors, birds of prey that are ferocious and can even take on vultures.
Golden jackals
Coloured Waters oasis is a weeks ride away from El Rahalat. It sits in a large basin that the Bedine believe is the place of the final battle of the Scattering, where the gods destroyed the denizens from the Camp of the Dead (N’asr’s djinn???). The basin is 10 miles long, 8 miles wide, and over 1,000 ft deep. 5 crescent shape lakes lie at the bottom of the cinder cone, each lake is a different colour, supposedly caused when the dried blood of the gods washed into the lakes. Ebony ash covers the floor. Fig trees, tall golden grasses, qassis bushes, and leafy green bushes poke through the ash in abundance.
The Bowl of Loneliness, a huge basin that contains El Rahalat
Mystra’s Star Circle, a constellation, when it touches the western horizon dawn is only 3 hours away.
Quarter of Emptiness, no food or water in it, avoided by Bedine (unless desperate and trying to avoid enemies). Ancient city half buried by a massive dune, walls made of thick grey stone, Full of buildings a thousand years old (but still in good state). An abandoned fort as large as a mountain lay at the city centre. A clean well in the fortress over 500 ft deep that led to a great labyrinth of underground grottos filled with rivers of cool water. Asabis dwell in the labyrinth and emerge at night to feast upon intruders.
Well of the Chasm, just beyond At’ar’s Looking Glass. A labyrinth of purplish stony spires leads to a deep canyon that descends to a depth of 500 ft over a distance of several miles. In the centre of the valley a deep pit penetrates the bedrock to tap an underground stream of rust coloured water.
At’ars Looking Glass, the ground is a mosaic of pebble sized stones worn glass smooth, reflects the light. The Bedine think Kozah hopes to win his wife back back keeping the land clean with his wind so she can see her reflection in the pebbles. Purplish stone pillars / obelisks mark the edge of Atar’s Looking Glass, beyond that is the Well of the Chasm.
The Mouth of the Abyss, a canyon of stone pillars beyond the Well of the Chasm.
Elah’zad, 150 miles north of the Mouth of the Abyss. Surrounded by salt flats and rocky hills. A hundred small springs open on the hillsides and trickle down the slope. Crimson leafed plants with blue stems and twiggy trees with copper and silver sprigs bordered each stream. A mile wide lake lies at the bottom of the basin. Elah’zad was the home of the moon goddess, but At’ar drove her away and made it a prison for the Mother of Waters (Eldath). Camels are not allowed to drink from the sacred lake, they must drink from a separate well / spring.
The House of the Moon lies on a small island 100 yards across in the middle of the lake at Elah’zad. An alabaster palace of semi circle shape that reflects the sunlight. A throne gilded with hammered copper and chairs lie inside the palace in its circular central chamber with a black marble floor, the ceiling is made of translucent rock. The House of the Moon existed before the Scattering.
Sister of Rains oasis, beyond the Shoal of Thirst. Lies at the base of a small mountain range 5000 ft in height. A 15 ft stone wall lies across one length of a canyon, the wall is breached in several places (caused by periodic flooding in the mountains). At one point a number of tiny springs burst out of the wall and pour down the canyon. The springs collect in small pools at the base of the canyon wall, surrounded by fig trees and other fruit plants. On the far side of the canyon at the top is the ruins of an ancient tower. Qohadar’s spellbook is buried in the concealed basement of the ancient tower.
The Shoal of Thirst, a vast flat salt plain.
Well of the Cloven Rock, 50 miles from Elah’zad, poisoned by Zhentarim.
Frankincense trees with gnarled trunks and spiny leaves near the mountains
Acacia trees in the mountains
Orofin, lies at the bottom of a mountain valley. Once a mighty city, four great canals radiate outward from a deep well at its heart. Most buildings are entirely ruined now. Apricot and acacia trees line the canals. A wide road encircles the entire city and connects three bridges leading out/in to the city. A huge fortress lies in the centre of the city around the well, its ruined ramparts breached in 9 or 10 places. An old tunnel leads from the fortress to the desert outside the city, used in case the city comes under siege.

Zhentarim Lore
Asabis, lizard things with sinewy arms and legs protruding at right angles, narrow skull and sloping forehead atop a thin awkward neck that swings side to side with its whole body as it moved. Carried sword, a crossbow, and wore a faded leather corselet. Cast lightning bolt and killed Ajaman. Yellow, egg shaped eyes, slit pupils, rough pebbly skin with narrow gashes for ears and a nose. Emerge at night, burrow into the desert sands shortly after dawn (about 2 hours), they have to hide from the sun. Call themselves laertis
A hundred of the lizard things, leading humans in black robes with curved swords, a long line of baggage camels, and fatigued slaves attacked El Mara and the Qahtani, slaughtered the entire Qahtani tribe at the El Ma’ra oasis.
Known allied with Cyric, rumoured to be a man, now a god.
Want to connect Waterdeep with Zhentil Keep and Mulmaster (which are gateways to the southern lands). Need to enslave the Bedine to act as guides and drivers of caravans.
The Black Robes will approach the sheikh in the guise of friendship and offer him a treaty. Once he agrees, they'll find a pretext to invite his family or other important tribe members into their camp. The Zhentarim will not permit these guests to leave and will use them as hostages to guarantee the tribe's submission. They will send agents, whose job it is to report murmurs of rebellion, to watch over the tribe. Before they know it, the Bedine will be subdued."
Will pay D’tarig 500 gp to identify Harpers. Have told D’tarig how to identify Harpers and that they are meddlesome fools who try to stop trade.
Hired enough camels and supplies at Tel Badir to equip a small army (which is how Lander found out their intentions).
El Zarud, silky moustache, sharp features, wears a black burnoose and turban. Meets with sheikh of tribes to persuade them to aid the Zhentarim. Uses magic to charm the sheikhs
Yhekal, wears purple robes with silver bracers, magic user. Leader of Zhentarim army in Anauroch
Zhentarim found the laertis 100 miles out of Addas Babar, in the ancient fortress in the Quarter of Emptiness

Language
Aba, name for the loose fitting robes of the Bedine for male or female.
Khreima, means home or tent in Bedine.
Khowwan, means tribe
keffiyeh, name for the white head cloth of the Bedine
Amarat, name for a hunting horn of the Bedine.
"Has somebody come to my khreima in need of help?", traditional way of welcoming guests into your tent
El Ma'ra Dat-ur Ojhogo, means the tall god who lets men sit upon his head
Purdah, (translates as “the curse of the flesh”), a period of seclusion a new bride must obey after her wedding (to stop her running to her father)
Rebaba, stringed instrument of the Bedine.
Jambiya, curved double edged dagger
Kuerabiche, a carrying case for liquids (gourd???)
el a'sarad , a solitary camel ride, a right of passage for a boy after he kills his first man.
Gooud, means mature camel
Ghaf, twiggy branched trees
Qassis, tasseled sedge bushes, a hardy lime green plant
Berrani, means stranger / foreigner
Wadi, means ravine
Jellaba, heavy camel’s wool robe used for sleeping at night to keep out the desert cold.
Haouadjejs, a box shaped litter made of camels wool and carried on the camel’s back, only owned by the richest of women, never used by men.
Asabi, means eater of parents
Difa, means proclamation, order, edict
Djebira, means saddlebag
Bakia, a wooden cup
Akeud, means oath
Mamlaha, mountain valley
ksur, means fortress

Lander Lore
About 25 years old
Lander volunteered to go to Anauroch 6 months agoafter overhearing a meeting in the Old Skull inn in Shadowdale between Storm, Florin, Elminster, Alustriel, Mourngrym, and a burly bearded man named Urso (all elder Harpers of the Shadowdale branch). Lander is expected to cover his own expenses. Given 100 gold and half a dozen healing potions.
Blue eyes, long golden hair, a black eyepatch covers his left eye.
Crossed the Desertsmouth Mountains and travelled Anauroch’s edge posing as an incense trader.
From Sembia, looking for Bedine.
Owns a diamond shaped golden magical amulet of translation.
Father was a wealthy, untitled merchant of Sembia who lived near the border of Archendale. Lander often accompanied his father on trips up the Arkhen Valley to by fruits, farm produce, and freshwater crabs.
Mother was a Zhentarim spy that married her father to gather commercial information. The Zhentarim wanted to take over Archendale, so Lander’s mother went with Lander and his father on a business trip (she had never been before) and gathered information on every farm owner and merchant in Archendale. Lander’s father discovered her betrayal upon their return to Sembia (where she would meet her contacts) and so sent Lander away (to Shadowdale???) and went to warn Archendale.
Lander’s father was killed by an assassin in Archendale. Lander’s mother was never heard from again. Lander was about 13/14 when his parents died.
Says Lander’s mother was a Cyricist but Cyric wasnt a god when Lander was a teenager.
Mother sent Lander to train to fight with a famous mercenary 3/week. She used to meet her Zhentarim contacts at the back of the mercenary’s house (was the mercenary a Zhentarim too???).
His mother bought him a hawk as a pet, one day it attacked him and took his eye, his father released the bird.
Lander went to stay with his father’s friend (in one of the Dales???), A Harper came and told Lander his father was dead (did Lander join after this???)
Wants to help the Bedine remain free and fight off the Zhentarim.
Harper
Bhadla, elder of his two guides, Musalim, younger of his guides. D’tarig, short (4 ft tall), leathery brow, dark eyes, puggish nose. Both speak common
Musalim slain by Zhentarim, Bhadla joined the Zhentarim.
Has a magic ring of invisibility taken from the Zhentarim assassin that tried to kill him in the Sister of Rains oasis.
Has a house in Archenbridge, used to belong to his father (perhaps he stayed there on his business trips)
Slain by Bhadla who used a poisoned dagger in an ambush while camped outside Orofin.


D’tarig Lore
Live on the fringes of the Anauroch desert
Survive by goat herdin
“Desert Walkers”, the more adventurous and greedy D’tarig, venture further into Anauroch and tap resin from the cassia, myrrh, and frankincense trees. Resin is sold to travelling merchants (usually Zhentil Keep sponsored). Zhentil Keep sells the resin to temples all over the realms.
D’tarig regard the Zhentarim as good merchants


Bait Mahwa Lore
Sheikh Sa’ar, a wise man, camps at the green lake of Coloured Waters oasis. Powerfully built, 40-50 years old, face lined with furrows, eyes hard with confidence and cunning.
Camp near Coloured Waters.
The Bait Mahwa do not permit men and women to eat together.
40 years ago the Bait Mahwa were driven into the Quarter of Emptiness after raiding too many neighbouring tribes. They stumbled upon the fortress city and drew water from the well, at night the asabis attacked and devoured most of the tribe.
300 warriors
Kabina, burly warrior
Dahalzel, warrior

Raz’hadi Lore
Sheikh Utaiba, wiry man, greying beard, piercing black eyes

Ruwaldi Lore
Arrange tents in parallel rows, each tent facing its opposite.
Sheikh Haushi

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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5936 Posts

Posted - 14 Aug 2020 :  10:10:15  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Parched Sea was another good, solid realms novel with a lot of lore about the region (much of it not in the Anauroch sourcebook), and a few tidbits about the Dalelands / Sembia.

I'm not sure if Troy came up with all the Bedine lore or Ed gave much of it to him and he later embellished it.

The history of the Bedine and the Scattering is clearly a corrupted derivation of what happened to the survivor states of Netheril. Three great tribes used their magic to conquer the world and the gods punished them for it. 3 tribes being Anauria, Asram, and Hlondath.

The bit i found curious is this mention of djinn, the final battle of the Scattering sees the "gods" battling against the denizens of N'asr, but of course N'asr is one of the gods. In another page it mentions the djinn as being the servants of N'asr. So i can only assume that at some point the survivor states summoned an army of outsiders (the Bedine probably call every outsider a djinn) and lost control of them.

an interesting bit about Lander's origin, looks like the Zhentarim tried to perform a secret takeover of Archendale in about 1350 DR, with a number of assassinations in the dale and presumably some mercenaries involved as well as blackmailing farmers and merchants not to resist.

The only snafu i could find was Lander's mother being a secret cyric worshipper and she died around 1350 DR with Lander's dad. Easily fixed as her either being a Banite, or a local god called cyric whose formal church vanished long ago (absorbed by Bane perhaps) but his name is still used by those in the Moonsea north.

The House of the Moon was interesting as a legend. At'ar drove the goddess of the moon from this place to make it a prison for the Mother of Waters. Now Faerunian scholars map these gods to Selune and Eldath but it seems like that this former Netherese monastery was a retreat for Elah Nydra, an archmage of Netheril who attained a measure of divinity (thanks to George). She was driven away possibly by the desertification or by some other force. It later became a prison to another being (possibly another powerful magic user) who has some connection to water, a druid perhaps.


Elfshadow next, should be good, everyone seems to rate it highly.

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ElfBane
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Posted - 14 Aug 2020 :  15:59:06  Show Profile Send ElfBane a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Under "Anauroch Lore"; the desert is 2500 sqm, 600 miles across... would mean its only 4.16 miles wide. Not a bad tradeoff.
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Kentinal
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Posted - 14 Aug 2020 :  16:41:09  Show Profile Send Kentinal a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by ElfBane

Under "Anauroch Lore"; the desert is 2500 sqm, 600 miles across... would mean its only 4.16 miles wide. Not a bad tradeoff.



Well the math works, so in part it depends on what the narrow desert is bordered by. Either that there is an error in the provided data.

250,000 square miles would be about 400 wide. A little more believable I would think.

I have not found any thing official as far as maps go.

"Small beings can have small wisdom," the dragon said. "And small wise beings are better than small fools. Listen: Wisdom is caring for afterwards."
"Caring for afterwards ...? Ker repeated this without understanding.
"After action, afterwards," the dragon said. "Choose the afterwards first, then the action. Fools choose action first."
"Judgement" copyright 2003 by Elizabeth Moon
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TheIriaeban
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Posted - 14 Aug 2020 :  17:48:20  Show Profile Send TheIriaeban a Private Message  Reply with Quote
According to the FRIA, the distance from from Addas Babar to Evereska is 390 miles (as the bird flies). Distance across at the Plain of Standing Stones is 600 miles (again, as the bird flies).

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Seravin
Master of Realmslore

Canada
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Posted - 14 Aug 2020 :  17:53:54  Show Profile Send Seravin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ed had nothing to do with the Anauroch in The Parched Sea, I had that confirmed a while back. All of the quasi-arabic references are Troy Denning and the TSR editors of the time, and not in Ed's version of the Realms.
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Seravin
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Posted - 14 Aug 2020 :  17:57:16  Show Profile Send Seravin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Good catch on Cyric's reference, given that Troy wrote Waterdeep when Cyric became a god you'd think he'd be aware of timelines. Sigh. *golf clap to the author and editors*
What I guess works is that if Lander's mother worshiped Myrkul, and since Myrkul isn't a god anymore and Cyric absorbed the god of the dead portfolio, Lander just swaps out Cyric for the dead god's name since that's the equivalent now? I think she must have worshiped the god of death/the dead because he references Cyric as the equivalent to the god of the dead named by Ruha?


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ElfBane
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Posted - 14 Aug 2020 :  18:58:45  Show Profile Send ElfBane a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Kentinal

quote:
Originally posted by ElfBane

Under "Anauroch Lore"; the desert is 2500 sqm, 600 miles across... would mean its only 4.16 miles wide. Not a bad tradeoff.



Well the math works, so in part it depends on what the narrow desert is bordered by. Either that there is an error in the provided data.



If Fonstad's Forgotten Realms Atlas is considered official;

there are two E/W wide points- the Ascore Ruin to Ghaethluntar Great mount, ~650 miles.
the next E/W wide point is the Fallen Lands to the edge of the Tortured Land, also ~650 miles.

the S/N wide point is from the Goblin Marches to map's end, ~ 1075 miles.

So, the greatest it could be is 698,750 sqm. But from N to S, the width is irregular, so we can probably knock off at least a third, making the area ~ 487,000 sqm.

So yea, there's an error in the provided data.
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Gary Dallison
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Posted - 14 Aug 2020 :  20:30:54  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Given that the quote came from a bedine tribe that appears to have ranged only in the eastern part of anauroch around the survivor state remnants their measurement of it could be limited to the lands they inhabit, and one would have to question the accuracy of their measuring methods in either case (if they talk of the whole of anauroch or just their part).

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ElfBane
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Posted - 15 Aug 2020 :  09:55:05  Show Profile Send ElfBane a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I prefer to put the blame where I suspect it lies... IOW don't let Troy Denning design any space craft.
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CorellonsDevout
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Posted - 15 Aug 2020 :  21:41:07  Show Profile Send CorellonsDevout a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison


Elfshadow next, should be good, everyone seems to rate it highly.



I personally loved Elfshadow, and indeed all the Song and Swords series.

Sweet water and light laughter
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Wooly Rupert
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Posted - 15 Aug 2020 :  23:27:27  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by CorellonsDevout

quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison


Elfshadow next, should be good, everyone seems to rate it highly.



I personally loved Elfshadow, and indeed all the Song and Swords series.



I got that book for Christmas, the year it came out. I read the entire thing that day.

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George Krashos
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Posted - 16 Aug 2020 :  00:55:06  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
You're doing some brilliant work here Gary. Just a minor suggestion - it would be even more brilliant if you would attach a page reference to all of the lore snippets you are showcasing (and specifying if they are hardcover/paperback/e-book). More work, I know, but that would be the icing on the cake.

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Lord Karsus
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Posted - 16 Aug 2020 :  04:14:50  Show Profile Send Lord Karsus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
-I remember really disliking Ruha, but I've forgotten in the years since why. Something to do with the improbability of her actually becoming a Harper.

(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)

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Gary Dallison
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Posted - 16 Aug 2020 :  08:01:24  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I will try and add page numbers, however, I suspect my pdfs are converts from another file format so the page numbers may be meaningless (I'll try and use an epub copy if i have one).

I'll start from elfshadow, I'm not going back to already read novels as I'm not sure I could face reading some of them more than once.


As for Ruha, I thought her characterisation was good, a young girl, outcast by her society, struggling to find acceptance, but facing rejection at every corner.
She certainly isn't a Harper in Parched Seas, although I could never be certain that Lander was a Harper either.
His father was a Harper friend, and maybe a Harper Agent and Lander may have inherited his pin but there is no mention of Lander going on any training or missions for the Harper until he was sat in the Old Skull inn and overhead Storm, elminster and a bunch of others discussing what to do about the zhents in anauroch.
I also got the feeling that this conversation was staged for him to overhear so it's likely the shadowdale harpers (who are not part of the new berdusk harpers) were testing him with his first mission.
Not that it matters. Lander was a harper by the end and if Ruha has his pin then she can join the harpers (assuming they dont think she stole it) at least that's what song of the saurials implies.

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Gary Dallison
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Posted - 16 Aug 2020 :  14:50:55  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I'm afraid page count is not going to be possible.

The various formats i own have a varying page count. Elfshadow for instance has 167 pages in pdf, 588 in epub, and no pages in rtf or txt.

I've checked the paperback version and it has 320 pages and i can't find a hardback.

I guess that is the problem with using digital media, pages are mutable based upon the size of the window and the font.

If it helps, i've tried to use the same key words as they appear in the book, although sometimes i've had to paraphrase, and in some cases i've had to write my own sentences because i'm piecing together bits across multiple pages. So if you own a digital version of the book you can search for the words.


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Lord Karsus
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Posted - 16 Aug 2020 :  16:45:10  Show Profile Send Lord Karsus a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison

As for Ruha, I thought her characterisation was good, a young girl, outcast by her society, struggling to find acceptance, but facing rejection at every corner.
She certainly isn't a Harper in Parched Seas, although I could never be certain that Lander was a Harper either.
His father was a Harper friend, and maybe a Harper Agent and Lander may have inherited his pin but there is no mention of Lander going on any training or missions for the Harper until he was sat in the Old Skull inn and overhead Storm, elminster and a bunch of others discussing what to do about the zhents in anauroch.
I also got the feeling that this conversation was staged for him to overhear so it's likely the shadowdale harpers (who are not part of the new berdusk harpers) were testing him with his first mission.
Not that it matters. Lander was a harper by the end and if Ruha has his pin then she can join the harpers (assuming they dont think she stole it) at least that's what song of the saurials implies.


-She appears in another series very much a Harper.

(A Tri-Partite Arcanist Who Has Forgotten More Than Most Will Ever Know)

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
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Posted - 16 Aug 2020 :  18:18:25  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison

I'm afraid page count is not going to be possible.

The various formats i own have a varying page count. Elfshadow for instance has 167 pages in pdf, 588 in epub, and no pages in rtf or txt.

I've checked the paperback version and it has 320 pages and i can't find a hardback.

I guess that is the problem with using digital media, pages are mutable based upon the size of the window and the font.

If it helps, i've tried to use the same key words as they appear in the book, although sometimes i've had to paraphrase, and in some cases i've had to write my own sentences because i'm piecing together bits across multiple pages. So if you own a digital version of the book you can search for the words.





You could reference a chapter number. That would narrow it down for others.

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Gary Dallison
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Posted - 16 Aug 2020 :  18:43:41  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Excellent idea, chapters it is.

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Seravin
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Posted - 16 Aug 2020 :  19:20:58  Show Profile Send Seravin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I actually really like Ruha in Parched Sea, a bit less so in Veiled Dragon because she somehow feels responsible for a f*** up that happens in Voolnar that she should never feel responsible for, and takes guff from people. In Parched Sea she, despite being in a male dominated society, doesn't really take guff from anyone and stands up for herself and is quite powerful and strong. But also empathetic and acts like I would act in her shoes, all in all it's some of Troy Denning's best character work. To me.

I have a lot of love for Elfsong (re-reading now) but Elfshadow despite loving most of it I've gone on at length about my issues with the ending. Will be interesting to see if you pick up the lore/consistency problems that I did . But it's still such a great book/series and Elaine is among the best.
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Gary Dallison
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Posted - 16 Aug 2020 :  20:55:42  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Well thus far its all good, although there does seem to be an error in determining Arilyn's age.

The book is supposed to start in 1321 DR (according to google anyway). Arilyn in chapter 1 is 15 years old, she spends 25 years adventuring and studied 5 years at the academy of arms in Evereska, but the book describes her in chapter 3 as approaching her 40th winter. The maths say she should be 45.

Anyone know Arilyn's date of birth? It would be easier to track from that. I'll assume it was 1321 DR, in which case Chapter 1 is set 1336 DR with 5 years at the academy and only 20 years adventuring unless of course the training at the academy of arms actually includes some time spent adventuring as part of their training.

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Edited by - Gary Dallison on 17 Aug 2020 10:47:15
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ElfBane
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Posted - 17 Aug 2020 :  07:48:20  Show Profile Send ElfBane a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Astonishing!!! Something in FR novels that doesn't add up!
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Seravin
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Posted - 17 Aug 2020 :  11:20:30  Show Profile Send Seravin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Elaine is pretty good with that sort of thing so I would just assume that part of training at the academy involves going out of Evereska and doing a bit of dungeon crawl or bandit camp destroying or some such?
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George Krashos
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Australia
6427 Posts

Posted - 17 Aug 2020 :  18:48:11  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison

Well thus far its all good, although there does seem to be an error in determining Arilyn's age.

The book is supposed to start in 1321 DR (according to google anyway). Arilyn in chapter 1 is 15 years old, she spends 25 years adventuring and studied 5 years at the academy of arms in Evereska, but the book describes her in chapter 3 as approaching her 40th winter. The maths say she should be 45.

Anyone know Arilyn's date of birth? It would be easier to track from that. I'll assume it was 1321 DR, in which case Chapter 1 is set 1336 DR with 5 years at the academy and only 20 years adventuring unless of course the training at the academy of arms actually includes some time spent adventuring as part of their training.



She is born in 1322 DR. Zaor dies in 1321 DR and in Chapter 18 of "Elfshadow" when Arilyn is talking to her dad Bran about that assassination, she notes that it occurred the year before she was born. Chapter 1 is still set in 1336 DR though - that's when Amnestria dies.

-- George Krashos


"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus

Edited by - George Krashos on 17 Aug 2020 18:52:39
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Gary Dallison
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Posted - 17 Aug 2020 :  18:59:16  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Awesome stuff, cheers george, maybe you should release your notes on the novels as well.

So she is approaching 40, and so the 25 years spent adventuring must have overlapped with her 5 years at the academy of arms. Makes sense I suppose to have a bit of work experience while they are training.

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