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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5936 Posts

Posted - 02 Jun 2020 :  09:41:25  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Cant say I'm surprised salvatore ignored the sourcebooks, that seems to be how he operates. It does make more sense to have a major artefact that keeps appearing in realms history and has linguistic and historical links to the setting should have a realmsian background. I'm sure both origins could be satisfied if the creators (from ancient realms history, actually crafted it in a demiplane for safety reasons (thus making it extra planar in origin), but its creation absorbed the creators and the demiplane and it first appeared in the realms (thus making it also realmsian in origin.

Salvatore's naming conventions are terrible and are most often unsalvageable, so it may require unreliable narrator to rewrite the names so they slightly resemble the originals but are also more realmsian and less tragic or derivative.

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Seravin
Master of Realmslore

Canada
1180 Posts

Posted - 02 Jun 2020 :  16:50:31  Show Profile Send Seravin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
What? You don't think dwarves should be named after a Bugs Bunny cartoon expression? Dagnabbit!
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5936 Posts

Posted - 02 Jun 2020 :  17:10:51  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Nor should editors be allowed to survive after letting a name like that go unchanged

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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
35998 Posts

Posted - 02 Jun 2020 :  19:21:38  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison

Cant say I'm surprised salvatore ignored the sourcebooks, that seems to be how he operates. It does make more sense to have a major artefact that keeps appearing in realms history and has linguistic and historical links to the setting should have a realmsian background.



What linguistic links? The only linguistic link I can think of, with this artifact, is to Middle-Earth.

And I don't know that I'd call popping up a couple times here and there to be historical links to the setting.

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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5936 Posts

Posted - 02 Jun 2020 :  20:53:36  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I admit salvatore did not use the realmsian elvish words for crystal and tower (probably because they had not been invented at that time), but the assumption is that it mentions elvish and it is in toril at the time so it should be torillian elvish.

As for the numerous events, it was made millennia ago and then lost, found again a thousand years ago by errtu and then hurled across the planes to land in toril again, and at some point between those findings it also ended up in zakhara. We have only 3 mentioned appearances and all of them are in toril so that seems significant to me. Errtu also implied the drow knew about it so that is possibly an additional appearance and may mean the second appearance a thousand years ago was actually in toril. It is possible if all the appearances are strung together that it never actually left toril and that the narrative of Al-Dimeneira hurling it across the planes was just embellishment and tall tales.


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Wooly Rupert
Master of Mischief
Moderator

USA
35998 Posts

Posted - 02 Jun 2020 :  21:39:17  Show Profile Send Wooly Rupert a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Of course the only mentioned appearances are in the Realms -- it's popping up in Realms novels, which very often don't mention other worlds.

If it only pops up in the Realms 3 times across thousands of years, it's pretty reasonable to assume that it wasn't in the Realms for a significant chunk of that time.

And 3 mentions across millennia is barely a footnote, unless it was at the center of very significant events each time -- RSE-type stuff, not "local critters attacking a place no one has heard of."

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Candlekeep - The Library of Forgotten Realms Lore
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TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore

USA
1048 Posts

Posted - 03 Jun 2020 :  17:36:05  Show Profile Send TheIriaeban a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Seravin

What? You don't think dwarves should be named after a Bugs Bunny cartoon expression? Dagnabbit!




Dwarf 1: "Dagnabbit!"
Dagnabbit: "What?"
Dwarf 1: "I wasn't talking to you."
Dagnabbit: "Okay...."
Dwarf 1: "Dagnabbit!"
Dagnabbit: "What? You are clearly saying my name."
Dwarf 1: "I am not talking to you. It is just an expression."
Dwarf 2: "Look, how about something different. Say....'By Moradin's Beard!'"
Dwarf 1: "You know, that is good. I like it!"
Stone falls from ceiling and crushes Dwarf 2.
Dwarf 1: "Okay.... Maybe not. Dagnabbit!"
Dagnabbit: "What?"
Dwarf 1: <sighs> "Look, I am not talking to you. It is just an expression."

"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."

My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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sleyvas
Great Reader

USA
11169 Posts

Posted - 04 Jun 2020 :  19:07:24  Show Profile Send sleyvas a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison

Cant say I'm surprised salvatore ignored the sourcebooks, that seems to be how he operates. It does make more sense to have a major artefact that keeps appearing in realms history and has linguistic and historical links to the setting should have a realmsian background. I'm sure both origins could be satisfied if the creators (from ancient realms history, actually crafted it in a demiplane for safety reasons (thus making it extra planar in origin), but its creation absorbed the creators and the demiplane and it first appeared in the realms (thus making it also realmsian in origin.

Salvatore's naming conventions are terrible and are most often unsalvageable, so it may require unreliable narrator to rewrite the names so they slightly resemble the originals but are also more realmsian and less tragic or derivative.




On the idea that Salvatore is flouting the lore books, I feel you need to bear one thing in mind. You're taking this concept that the lore came first. It didn't. Salvatore invented Crenshinibon (however its spelled), and then later someone tried to adapt it in a sourcebook. Hey may not have even known it was somewhere else, nor did he necessarily have any say so in what that third party did with HIS creation. He may have later forgotten that he said that the origins were off world (because lets face it, something like 25+ years passed in real life for him and dozens of novels). I wish I could say that I couldn't understand that, but I can honestly say I forget the names of some of my own NPC's at times.

Alavairthae, may your skill prevail

Phillip aka Sleyvas
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5936 Posts

Posted - 14 Jun 2020 :  11:09:19  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Spellfire 1357 DR

Books
Seroun of Calimport wrote “Tales of Far Travels” in the Year of the Rock (1286 DR)
Helsuntiir of Athkatla wrote “Musings” in the Year of the Winged Worm (1225 DR)
Xult’s Seven Sigils – magical learning aid.
Gholdaunt of Tashluta wrote a letter to all Sword Coast ports as he hunted the female pirate Valshee of the Black Blade in the Year of the Wandering Waves (1292 DR)
Jam Tiir of Lantan wrote “A Merchant’s Tale) in the Year of the Smoky Moon (1287 DR)
Irigoth Mmar, High Sage of Baldur's Gate, wrote “Lore of the Coast” in the Year of the Trembling Tree (1223 DR)
Guldoum Tchar of Mirabar wrote the “Sayings of a wise and fat merchant” in the Year of the Crawling Clouds (1283 DR)
Rasthiavar of Iraiebor wrote “A Wayfarer’s Belt Book of Advice” in the Year of Many Mists (1282 DR)
The adventuress Sharanralee wrote “Ballads And Lore of One Dusty Road” in the Year of the Wandering Maiden (1337 DR)
Nelve Harssad of Tsurlagol wrote “My Journeys Around the Sea of Fallen Stars” in the Year of the Sword and Stars (1332 DR)
Mirt 'the Moneylender' of Waterdeep wrote “In a letter to Khelben 'Blackstaff Arunsun in proclamation of his lover Asper as his lawful heir” in the Year of the Harp (1355 DR)
Alustriel, High Lady of Silverymoon wrote “A Harper's Song” in the Year of the Dying Stars (1284 DR)
Aermhar of the Tangletrees gave “Advice before the Council in the Elven Court” in the Year of the Hooded Falcon (1291 DR)
Dathlance of Selgaunt wrote “An Old Warrior's Way” in the Year of the Blade (1275 DR)
The green dragon Naurglaur wrote “Sayings of A Wyrm” in the Year of the Spitting Cat (895 DR)
Korin of Neverwinter wrote “Tales Told By The Warm Fireside” in the Year of the Blazing Brand (1334 DR)
Mintiper Moonsilver, bard wrote “Nine Stars Around A Silver Moon” in the Year of the Highmantle (1336 DR)


Rising Moon Inn
Rising Moon Inn - a good quality roadside inn among the trees in Highmoon. Gorstag’s axe hangs over the bar. Barrels of ale poured using bronze taps made in Waterdeep. Also served bottles from far off places (and local brews from Highmoon). Silver crescent moon signboard outside the inn, was enchanted by a travelling wizard long ago and it never tarnishes.
Gorstag - owns the Rising Moon inn. Broad shouldered, strong, grey hair, grey eyes, craggy face, broken nose. Former adventurer, made a lot of gold as a fighter and settled down in Deepingdale in Highmoon and rebuilt his father’s old inn. Kind, quiet, gruff, father figure to Shandril. Used a two handed broad axe that is hung over the bar
Shandril Shessair - works at the Rising Moon Inn (kitchen hand, cleaner, pot washer). Shandril has blonde hair. She has no family or kin that she knows off, was abandoned at the inn as a young girl. Sleeps in the sleeping loft.
Korvan - is a cook at the Rising Moon Inn. A good cook, he once worked at the Royal Palace of Cormyr when he was younger. Fat, smelly, groping. Was banished from Cormyr upon pain of death (perhaps he fondled one of the princesses???). Is a cult of the dragon informant.
Tezza - (woman?), old, sharp eyed, washed the windows
Lureene – young woman who works waiting tables in the inn and sleeps in the sleeping loft.
Highmoon veterans often visit the bar in the Rising Moon
Ghondarrath (Ghondar) – veteran warrior of Deepingdale, grey beard, hard jaw. Talks of the treasures of Myth Drannor (has he been or just heard rumours???)
Storm Silverhand and Sharantyr at the Rising Moon Inn
Marimmar the Mage Most Magnificent from Cormyr, a mage (his apprentice is Narm Tamaraith). Seeking magic of Myth Drannor. Slain by bone devils near Myth Drannor. Marimmar may have been a cult of the dragon agent.
Narm Tamaraith – nondescript youth, apprentice mage to Marimmar. Escaped Myth Drannor with the aid of the Knights of Myth Drannor. Taken to Shadowdale.
Glaemril – stream near Rising Moon Inn in Deepingdale. Also called the Deeping Stream. Joins the River Ashaba
Ulsinar Pardus, carpenter in Highmoon and regular at the Rising Moon inn.
Pardus, makes saddles for horses, regular at the Rising Moon inn. Married to Yantra Pardus.


Company of the Bright Spear
Adventuring Band – Company of the Bright Spear, stopped at the Rising Moon Inn. Wear gold rings on hands and ears. Company of the Bright Spear is heading into Myth Drannor. Carries a charter from King Azoun of Cormyr.
Burlane, leader of the Company of the Bright Spear, young giant (tall) of a man. Carries the Bright Spear (an enchanted spear that sheds pale blue light). Warrior, square beard
Delg “The Fearless”, dwarf, with a jeweled dagger. Warrior. His axe is enchanted
Lynxal the thief, killed by Ghondarrath (after he tried to steal from Ghondar)
Rymel, a bard, intelligent, short beart
Ferostil “the Lion of Tempus” – a warrior (bladesman), burly, coarse, merry. Owns an enchanted shield
Thail – a mage, grim, serious, defers to judgement of his younger companions.
Shandril joins the group as a thief to replace Lynxal.
All may have been slain in Oversember Vale by the Cult of the Dragon. Delg survives and joins Shandril on her trip to Silverymoon.



Shandril
Blonde hair.
Her parents were Garthond Shessair and Dammasae the Incantatrix (they died when Shandril was a baby), they lived in the Tower Tranquil – a ruined keep above Rauglothgor’s lair.
Abandoned at Rising Moon Inn
Views Gorstag as a father figure
Joins the Company of the Bright Spear to go adventuring. Gets separated in the Gates of Doom and is teleported to Myth Drannor by herself.
Absorbs the power of a Balhiir and shoots out spellfire to kill Rauglothgor and injure Manshoon. This awakens a latent spellfire talent
Holds a plain brass ring (a gift from the Simbul) that will take her one way (and only once) to a refuge of the Simbul.
Holds a bracelet of electrum inlaid with sapphires (taken from Rauglothgor’s lair)
Gorstag gifts Shandril (before they leave for Silverymoon) a necklace that shields from detection that he took from an evil necromancer.

Narm Tamaraith
22 years old, apprenticed to Marimmar at 13
Born in Silverymoon
Taken by parents to Triboar when he was not yet 1 year old and then to Waterdeep
His father was Hargun Tamaraith “the Tail” a former ranger (before he caught the Shaking Fever), worked as a trader in weapons and smith-works.
His mother was Fythuera “Fyth”, played the harp also worked as a trader.
Both parents may have been adventurers. Slain in a sorcerous duel in Baldur’s Gate when Narm was eleven. Perished in flames when the ferryboat they were in was struck by a fireball hurled by Calishite archmage Kluennh Tzarr at the mage Algarzel Halfcloak (who flew away leaving those on the ferry to die – he may have been slain later or fled to another plane).
Archmage Kluennh Tzarr retreated to his citadel. It is said that dragons serve him. Narm intends to kill him one day.
Narm lived homeless on the streets of Baldur’s Gate for 2 years before persuading Marimmar to apprentice him.
Knights of Myth Drannor believe his mother may have been a Harper.
Holds a dagger with a lion headed pommel (taken from Rauglothgor’s lair).
Holds an old cloak of low magic that will protect him (a gift from Elminster)
Gorstag gifts Narm a “shield of Tymora” a miniature disc blessed by priests of Tymora long ago.

Shadowsil
Cruel looking woman in purple robes. Battled a man in wine coloured robes in Myth Drannor’s ruins.
Real name Symgharyl Maruel (truename is Lansharra). Former apprentice of Elminster. Loves Elminster and he loved her like a daughter, but she was prone to cruelty.
Born in the 1200s DR
Works for Zhentarim
Associated with the Cult of the Dragon, had infiltrated the cult 14 years ago (1343 DR). First act was to take treasure to Aghazstamn.
As a cult of the dragon wizard she has worked with Rauglothgor and Aghazstamn.
Hides a “ring of dragons”, and wands and potions in a secret, spell sealed cave. The ring of dragons allows her to craft illusions of dragons, speak telepathically to dragons.
Wand of fireball – command word is Maerzae
Slain in battle with the Knights of Myth Drannor

Words
Madcap – word for a mad person
Bladesman – word for a fighter
Handfast – word for betrothed or fiance
Olore – word for goodbye???


Tales
Yerevan’s Last Race – a bard’s telling of the last king of Westgate.

Lake Sember
Crystal clear waters
Semberflow the river empties the lake
mists everywhere
Silverspear – knows elminster


Thunder Peaks
The Thunder Peaks are called Airmbult by the elves, meaning Storm Fangs
The Gates of Doom, a rocky valley in the Thunder Peak Mountains, guarded by a mage
Green dragon hunts in the Gates of Doom
Oversember – a cult of the dragon outpost. A cave filled with caskets filled with bones. “Aergatha” inscribed on one of the bones teleports those saying the word through a magical portal to another cavern filled with gargoyles and another portal that teleports people to a ruin in Myth Drannor.


Other Lore
Non worshippers of Mask who utter his name brings ill luck. Refer to him as “He who watches over the shoulder of thieves”
“a man must follow where his foolishness leads” - old bardic saying
“Aergatha” - magic command word
“not out of the woods yet” a Cormyrean saying
Hylgaun – a forester near the Thunderpeaks
Raunel – a travelling merchant, trades in sausages from the Vilhon Reach, loyal to the Church of Bane in Mulmaster.
Phandar – a type of tree near the elven court
Shadowtop – a type of tree near the elven court
Witchfire – a glowing moss (blue or green) that grows in the forests of Cormanthyr and the Dalelands and glows at night. The elves call it “Nightshine”
The High Hunt of the Elven Court – elven warriors riding stags chasing a glowing unicorn. Depicted on tapestries in the Twisted Tower of Shadowdale.
Many believe priests of Bane summoned devils to Myth Drannor.
Solshuss the Bard wrote love songs
Storm Silverhand has a harp which was a gift from the elves of Myth Drannor.
Shoulree of the Elven Court during the days of Myth Drannor could wield spellfire (according to talk in Myth Drannor), Elminster knew her and has some of her clothes still.
Some elves in the Elven Court joined “the long sleep” and may awaken when needed.
The sage Mroon lived almost a thousand years ago and defined the famous “circle of diplomacy”
“and in the wind and the water the storm-king's fire-eyed daughter came a-rotting home across the sea leaving none on the wreck alive but me . .” part of a ballad that was old when Myth Drannor fell.
The Silent Sword is a star, in the northern hemisphere when it rises the night is half done.
Church of Tymora bathe fiances in holy water the day of the wedding.
The Ride of the Lion, a song sung by bards and favoured by Harpers.
Gorscraw, a bird
Karsagh of Selgaunt, a fat balding man who hires mercenaries.
Pilgrims of Tempus often travel through Cormyr west seeking the great fields of war inland of the Sword Coast.
Battle at the Bridge of Fallen Men over 10 years ago between the Cult of the Dragon and a mage named Garthond Shessair. Many cultists slain in that battle as well as Garthond.
gultho – a command word
The Salute to Victorious Warriors, a bardic song of farewell as people head to battle.
Vale of Lost Voices, sacred to the elves, guarded by something that slays axe wielders and great mages alike and leaves no trace. The elves of the Elven Court bury their dead here. The largest trees grow in the vale and the light is eerily blue. The Vale of Lost Voices is known as the Lost Dale in Cormyr. No one traveling through the vale ever leaves the road.
Phledge, a plump, ground dwelling forest bird (like a partridge). Smoky testing.
“Longfingers” the magician depicted in bardic tales as having endless pockets.

Shadowdale
Moungrym, called Grym by the Knights of Myth Drannor
Silver and blue banner with spiral tower and crescent moon mark Shadowdale.
The mill bridge marks entry into the dale. It is guarded.
Thurbal Captain of Arms and Warden of Shadowdale – weatherbeaten, plain features, shrewd and kind eyes.
Attacked every summer by Zhentil Keep
Worried by the devils of Myth Drannor and Daggerdale’s lawlessness
Drow and cult of the dragon are a constant menace.
Rold is a guard in Twisted Tower of Shadowdale, moustache, uncle of Naera
Crimmon, guard in Twisted Tower of Shadowdale. Married to Jhaele
Naera, serving maid in Twisted Tower of Shadowdale, niece of Rold.
Culthar, cult of the dragon agent planted in the guard of the Twisted Tower of Shadowdale.
Sylune slain battling a dragon of the cult of the dragon.
Zhentil Keep has launched two major assaults against the dale since the Knights of Myth Drannor moved to the dale.
Lune Lyrohar, one of the girls at Mother Tara’s is a weretiger
3 Knights of Myth Drannor buried in the crypts below the twisted tower (10 levels below the surface)
Rozsarran Dathan, guard in Shadowdale
Preceptress (head of the temple) Eressea Ambergyles, high priest at the temple of Tymora in Shadowdale. Very small
Kelan, guard in the Twisted Tower of Shadowdale.
Raeth, young guard in the Twisted Tower of Shadowdale.
Jhaele Silvermane runs the Old Skull Inn.
Berost, guard in Shadowdale.
Baerth, guard in Shadowdale
Delmost, guard in Shadowdale.
Bronn Selgard, smith of Shadowdale, large strong man with huge arms.
The Twisted Tower of Shadowdale has a talking door taken from the Green Door inn in Essembra by the Knights of Myth Drannor
Lhaera, married to a woodsman, and her daughter Imraea (six years old). Torm and Rathan owe Lhaera a debt of some kind (Torm’s child???).

Zhentarim
Shadowsil – mage in Zhentarim

Rauglothgor
Dracolich
Rauglothgor the Proud (when alive), lived among the Thunderpeaks. Night dragon of the Thunderpeaks, Rauglothgor the Undying Wyrm.
Presumptive. Quick to take offence
Old dragon, around when men first came to the Sea of Fallen Stars and fought with elves and the bugbear and kobold tribes of the Thunderpeaks
Slew weak and old dragons (often by trickery), taking their hoards for his own and hiding that treasure in secret places underground (slaying anything that ventured into those lairs).
Devoured whole herds of rothe in Thar and Buckar in the Shining Plains and more than orc horde coming from the Desertsedge Mountains.
As it grew old and powerful it slew any dragon it met but became afraid that other dragons would steal its hoard as it grew older. So it indulged the Cult of the Dragon when they promised eternal life.
New lair provided by the Shadowsil and the Cult of the Dragon beneath the tower of the wizard Garthond
Raulothgor’s lair (on the eastern edge of the Thunderpeaks above Lake Sember) is a great open cavern studded with sea green beljurils (periodically glow with light), beneath an old, abandoned keep (the Tower Tranquil, home of Garthond and Dammasae).
A balhir was imprisoned in a crystal globe in Rauglothgor’s lair. It shed light when held. The balhir eats magic, lore says it can only be defeated by the one who releases it. Rauglothgor was unaware of the balhir’s presence (perhaps a Cult of the Dragon trap to weaken the dracolich if needed???).
Rauglothgor’s lair contained a bracelet of electrum inlaid with sapphires (taken by Shandril), and a dagger with a lion head pommel (taken by Narm)
Rauglothgor slain by Shandril Shessair, his lair blasted by spellfire and the mountainside opened and the keep atop shattered. Much treasure left in his now open-air lair.
Portal linking Rauglothgor’s lair and Myth Drannor (Shadowsil knows about this portal).
Sheepherders from the dales plundered some of Rauglothgor’s treasure after the battle.

Aghazstamn
Blue dragon
Became a dracolich too young. Missed out on many years of battling and mating, etc.
Likes to fight and cause fear.
Aghazstamn’s lair (a cave in a mountain a long way from Rauglothgor’s lair in the Desertsmouth Mountains) contains a coach that once carried young princes of Cormyr to hunt in the high country. It was seized by some long forgotten wyrm (horses and princes with it) .
Slain by Elminster above Rauglothgor’s lair.

Cult of the Dragon
70 cultists serve Rauglothgor.
Shadowsil is senior in the cult of the dragon.
Dalelands cultists based in Oversember
Meeting point in Essembra
Cult of the Dragon cell operates in Sembia and the Dalelands. Senior wearers of purple based in Ordulin.
Malark Himbruel, Archmage of the Purple, Malark the Mighty, hated by other cultists in the Cult of the Dragon. Slain by Torm and Rathan after he ambushed Shandril and Narm.
Arkuel, dragon cultist and warrior
Suld, dragon cultist and warrior
“The liches” ruled the dalelands cell of the Cult of the Dragon, they do not travel well.
Senior cultist of the dalelands cell include: - Salvarad the renegade priest of Talos, most dangerous senior cultist (triple lightning bolts in silver on his breast) - Naergoth Bladelord warrior lord and leader of the cult - 7 warrior merchants, all vicious clods - Zilvreen the master thief
Dargoth of the Perlar merchant fleet, senior wearer of the purple and one of the warrior merchant clods.
Commarth, bearded general of the Sembian border forces, senior wearer of the purple, one of the warrior merchant clods.
Guindeen, senior wearer of the purple, one of the warrior merchant clods.
Culthar, cult of the dragon agent hidden among the guards of Shadowdale. Captured by Rold after Culthar attacked Shandril. Escaped using a magic ring given to him by Malark.
Brossan, cult of the dragon agent, lives as a hermit on a hill above Thunderstone
Korvan in the Rising Moon inn is a cult of the dragon informant. Slain by Gorstag for betraying Shandril to the cult.
Oumrath – rival of Malark Himbruel, possible rival senior member of the same cell in the dalelands.
Zannaster – mage of the cult of the dragon, not a senior cultist (Wearer of the Purple) but could be made one very soon
Shargrailar’s lair is on the west side of the Thunderpeaks. Shargrailar was burned by Shandril’s spellfire and smashed by Delg’s axe.
Thiszult, young mage in the cult of the dragon, wild, dangerous, unpredictable.



Zhentil Keep
Lord Kalthas – general of the armies of Zhentil Keep
Lord Chess – knows Manshoon.
Armies of Zhentil Keep defend from the empty wastes of Thar. The lich Arkhigoul was recently defeated making the wastes of Thar easier to defend from.
Ilthond, young wizard. Slew the mage Haklisstyr of Selgaunt (with a poisoned dagger) and stole a teleportation scroll from him. Was scrying the outside of Elminster’s tower. Ilthond teleported into Shadowdale to abduct Shandril.
Lord Marsh Behvintle, dislikes Fzoul Chembryl, works in the slave trade. Zhentarim leader of its warriors.
Yarkul (a mage) and Sarhthor (a wizard) – Zhentarim leaders.
Casildar and Zhessae – priests of Bane in service to Fzoul. Zhentarim leaders
Sashen, Kadorr, Ilthond – Zhentarim leaders (used as assassins??? demoted for failing to kill Shandril???)
Manxam and his beholders guard Zhentil Keep and the Zhentarim.
The Black Altar, temple to Bane. The Inner Chamber of Solitude where one is closest to Bane. In the centre of the Black Altar is a gigantic black stone throne. The floor of the Black Alter is black marble.


Manshoon
First Lord of Zhentil Keep
Owns a crystal globe, command word “Zellathorass” calls the globe to Manshoon. Command word “Alvathair” dismisses the globe.
The Tower High of Manshoon in Zhentil Keep is protected by gargoyles (disguised as buttress toppers) and a stone golem (as tall as 6 men).
Orlgaun the black dragon is merged with the outer walls of the Tower High of Manshoon and can be freed only by Manshoon to serve him. Crashed in the Elven Court after combat with the Knights of Myth Drannor
Manshoon loved the Shadowsil ??? Flew on Orlgaun to avenge her death, fought the Knights of Myth Drannor and Shandril used Spellfire against him. Orlgaun possibly dead, crashed into the trees of the Elven Court and was impaled by a tree and not moving and surrounded by malebranche.

Knights of Myth Drannor
Torm son of Dathguld, hails from Westgate
Rathan Thentraver


Mulmaster
The High Imperceptor of Bane sits on a small throne in front of the “Seat of Bane” a forty foot high throne of polished, glassy, black stone.
The High Imperceptor has agents (one called Eilius)among the Lords of Zhentil Keep, wishes to remove Manshoon so that he may move against the traitor Fzoul.
High Imperceptor wields the Black Mace of Bane, a mighty weapon
Theln, serves the High Imperceptor of Bane, has contacts with a merchant (called Raunel, trades in sausages from the Vilhon Reach, loyal to Bane) travelling through the Thunderpeaks.
Laelar – a priest of Bane, slain by Torm and Rathan in an attack on Shadowdale.
Kuldus – an upperpriest of Bane.
The forces of the High Imperceptor of Bane attacked the Black Altar of Zhentil Keep while Manshoon was hiding (after being injured by spellfire)

Spellfire
Spellfire is raw magic
Dammasae the Incantatrix, lived in Thunderstone, last wielder of Spellfire known to the Zhentarim.
Shoulree of the Elven Court during the days of Myth Drannor could wield spellfire (according to talk in Myth Drannor), Elminster knew her and has some of her clothes still.
Cannot burn through wall of force
Does not drain magic unless being actively used
“Spellfire will rise, and a sword of power, to cleave shadow and evil and master art” - Alaundo’s predictions of spellfire.

Elminster
Uses an upturned wyvern’s skull sealed with paste for a chamberpot. Elminster stole it from a Tharchioness’ bedchamber long ago (in his wilder days)

Harpers
Mostly humans, elves, half elves, bards and rangers.
More women than men are harpers.

Sembia
Blackfeather Bridge – Sembia maintains a small outpost of bored looking guards at the point where the road between the Standing Stone and Sembia crosses the River Ashaba.

Garthond and Dammasae
Dammasae was born in the Sword Coast Lands.
Garthond Shessair was apprentices to Jhavanter of Highmoon in his youth.
Jhavanter dwelled in the Tower Tranquil on the east side of the Thunderpeaks. Jhavanter and Garthond battled the Cult of the Dragon many times until cultists slew Jhavanter, then Garthond worked againt them by himself.
Dammasae adventured with Gorstag and his companions. She was captured by the Cult of the Dragon for her spellfire. Garthond rescued her and they travelled far, getting married at the temple of Mystra in Baldur’s Gate.
Garthond was cursed by a cult mage named Erimmator. The curse bound a balhiir to him in symbiosis.
Garthond and Dammasae lived in Elturel for a time and had Shandril. When Shandril was 8 months old they made to return to the Tower Tranquil. They rode with Gorstag but the Cult of the Dragon were waiting for them and they slew Garthond, although he killed 9 mages and 3 warriors of the cult.
Dammasae died of her wounds. Dammasae is buried in Deepingdale on a knoll, the first one close to the road west of Toad Knoll. It is said Mystra once appeared to a magister on that knoll.
Cult of the Dragon broke into the Tower Tranquil and turned it into Rauglothgor’s lair

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Seravin
Master of Realmslore

Canada
1180 Posts

Posted - 14 Jun 2020 :  13:01:00  Show Profile Send Seravin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
One thing that's always bothered me about Spellfire (and I've heard it's just cut content) is that the Cult never talks about how the 3 dracoliches are not actually killed because they're dracoliches and their phylacteries were not destroyed. You'd think that bringing the dragons back would be their primary focus (as was the case in the novel The Veiled Dragon when Cyrpress is killed by Ruha the cult immediately goes on the hunt for bits of his body to be fed to the new host to bring him back).

It's a plot hole problem. Another sourcebook brings up those 3 lizards that the dracoliches have become though.

Salvarad is amazing, and secretly worships Shar and Cyric rather than Talos. I wish more was written about him; he lives in Saerloon and was 20th level (one of the highest statted priests in the FR during 2nd edition). He was also mentioned in some 3rd edition book with similar stats but I think they gave up on him. Not sure why he would pretend to worship Talos nor why he would follow Naergoth Bladelord.

Love these write ups! Keep em coming.
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5936 Posts

Posted - 14 Jun 2020 :  14:34:31  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Wow, cant believe I never heard of salvarad before, or noticed the final dates of rauglothgor and aghastamn.

I recall the grail of shargrailar appearing in sildeyuir in one of the 3e adventures. I always assumed this was the last remaining piece of shargrailar and so he couldn't come back without it.

Rauglothgor was atomised in his lair and shandril spewed out spellfire over everything in his lair, blasting apart the mountain. The balhiir was also released in the lair and likely drained any magic that wasnt consumed by spellfire so I can easily see that every part of rauglothgor was destroyed, including his phylactery by that encounter.

Aghazstamn only had his body broken and should indeed have survived, and a similar fate befell shargrailar (only his skull was destroyed by spellfire).

However, the book quite clearly depicts the cult of the dragon as not being united in the least. Malark was a senior member of that cell and yet was hated by the other wearers of the purple and they let him go it alone against shandril, probably hoping he destroyed himself.

There were 70 cultists alone serving rauglothgor, I would count those as one unit of the cell working to further their own power in that cell. I presume each wearer of purple had his own dracolich allies and so other members in the same cell might have stolen the phylactery and hidden it so that their own unit could grow strong.
Then there is the shadowsil, she was quite clearly (to us) a zhent agent within the cult, and those two organisations are enemies so it is also equally likely that as well as rival cultists trying to take the phylactery of fallen dracoliches, it is possible that the zhentarim could have attacked those empty lairs to take the phylactery.


That aside, the fate of manshoons dragon organ is also unclear, yes it was impaled on a tree and surrounded by dragons, but it clearly hated being a servant of Manson and it was really old and large, it could have survived the fall and then pretended to be dead (even though it was severely injured) and maybe survived amid the ruins.


Then there is salvarad. I will have to scour my sourcebooks for him. He is mentioned as a renegade priest of talos and the most powerful of the wearers of purple. If he is also a follower of shar and later cyric then it is entirely possible that he is a renegade priest of talos because he promoted heretical beliefs and was therefore declared renegade and took up with the cult for protection. I'd be happy using him as the start of a number of heresies involving shar and talos.


Overall I enjoyed spellfire. Loads of lore in it. I'm quite happy with the disposable baddies, but that's because I'm interested in people and places to flesh out existing organisations and regions.
The intrigue and strife in the evil organisations was nice to see (bad guys should always work against one another). I liked that manshoon had a human motivation for his vengeance (love, or his version of it) that prompted a mistake, but I'm conscious that he could have faked the mistake and his absence to expose those working against him.

I only wish the unedited version was available, I bet there was a tonne more lore on the church of bane and spellfire and the cult of the dragon and the Dale's and the characters involved, but that probably all fell onto the cutting room floor.

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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5936 Posts

Posted - 14 Jun 2020 :  15:17:16  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I suppose i'd best do Black Wizard as well. I read this a while back when i was reworking the Moonshae Isles so i was completely uninterested in the story at the time (and i don't care to read it again to try and get interested). Here are the footnotes from noteworthy bits of lore.

Black Wizard

Callidyrr
Seven wizards on mages council of callidyrr.
Cyndre – master of wizards of mages council of callidyrr – trained in Thay
Alexei – second wizard of callidyrr’s council – blood of high magic flowed through his veins – hails from Thay
Kryphon - wizard of callidyrr’s council
Doric - wizardess of callidyrr’s council, formerly involved with Alexei
Talraw- lesser wizard of callidyrr’s council – lean tall
Wertam – lesser wizard of callidyrr’s council – dark skinned
Karianow – lesser wizardess of callidyrr’s council – short ugly woman from Waterdeep
Mages council and cult of Bhaal eliminated druids on alaron
Gold coins of callidyrr have a crenelated castle on the front.
Council of mages hired from Waterdeep and beyond.
Magic Mirror – linked to Caer Corwell Great Hall, allows scrying
Scarlet Guard – mercenaries paid directly by the King, 3 brigades of humans (hired from Sword Coast), 1 brigade of ogres.
Dornthwait – captain of the scarlet guard
Devin – agent of Hugh O’Roarke in Caer Callidyrr – formerly captain of the guard for Lord O’Roarke
Fiona – daughter of Devin – 16 years old
Sheila – kitchen wench at caer callidyrr
Garrick – castle tailor’s son
Razfellow, assassin from Calimshan, half orc, working for mages council of Callidyrr
Assassins trained at the Academy of Stealth in Calimshan
Rasper, assassin in service to Razfellow
Dai-Dak – leader of duergar force – wants to establish foothold under Alaron.
Svirfneblin settlement beneath Caer Callidyrr – mine gold and iron and farm fungus
Ginyak weed sold in Callidyrr (imported from Calimshan) – drug???
Trees around Hickorydale all dead
Cantrev Codfin – small fishing village
Tavish, female, a bard, traveled to Corwell 10 years ago, been on Moray since then. Traveling to Alaron
Tavish owns a magic folding boat

Cantrev Llewellyn
Town of Llewellyn, large town (larger than Corwell), population of 5,000
Inhabitants of Llewellyn are quiet and insular.
Wooden houses, plastered wall, painted white. Neat stone walls around pastoral land
Diving Dolphin Inn
The Old Sailor Tavern – rough establishment in the run down section of town – fights and thefts are common.

Other Islands
King Dynnegall slain by assassins
King Dynnegall had a daughter
King Dynnegall had an infant son
Lords of Moray also slain by assassins
Throne is unclaimed in Moray
King of Snowdown and his relations disappeared on a hunting trip or slain by assassins
Throne is unclaimed in Snowdown


Myrloch Vale
Genna Moonsinger lives in a cottage by the Great Grove of the Earthmother
Genna Moonsinger is far older than she looks
Great Grove of the Earthmother, the moonwell surrounded by a ring of standing stones, some capped by other stones. Surrounded by a magical barrier that prevents evil from entering
Grunt, a cantankerous brown bear lives in the Great Grove (guardian???)
Trahern of Oakvale served the Myrloch Vale area
Sparrows and woodland creatures used to communicate with other druids
Newt far stronger than his small size, able to handle the Heart of kazgoroth without a problem.
Yazilliclick – woodsprite – 2 feet tall, antennae, gossamer wings
Many woodsprites in the woodlands of the Myrloch Vale
Isolde – druid – tends winterglen
Waine – druid
nearly 36 druids tend the Myrloch Vale
Ryder Greenleaf – druid - tends a grove on the western shore of Gwynneth
Gadrric Deepglen – old druid – tends a region of canyons and cliffs on the northern edge of the Myrloch Vale near the northmen territories.
Eileen of Aspenheight – young female druid
Moonwell erupted and turned all druids to white stone statues. Stone statues impervious to damage.
Moonwell elsewhere in Myrloch Vale, home to a ghostly apparition of a woman in silver armour - guardian


Corwell
King of Corwell’s favourite weapon is a boar spear
Majority of Lairds must vote to appoint the King.
Daryth knows Razfellow.
Randolph, captain of the guard
Tristan still classed as a minor?
Friar Nolan – suggested seeking High King’s approval for accession – secret tie to Callidyrr
Lord Galric of a highland cantrev that grew rich on mining iron, copper, silver – drunkard.
Lord Dynnatt and Lord Koart are close friends – faction?
Lord Pontswain ruled a large and wealthy cantrev. - ambitious, taxes subjects harshly, miser
Lord Fergus of Cantrev Kingsbay – honest
Lord Fergus has a son - Sean
Lord Macshea of Cantrev Macsheehan – honest
Journey from Corwell to Kingsbay is 4-5 days by stallion.
Rodger, fisherman in Cantrev Kingsbay – 60+ years old – toothless – widower – children grown
Cantrev Kingsbay is smaller than most cantrevs
Buildings in Corwell are round and stone with roofs of straw.
Buildings in Callidyrr often have roofs of shingle.
Ffolk drink dark ale
Salmon swim in great numbers between Alaron and Gwynneth.

Caer Allisynn
Caer Allisynn, infested by sahuagin
Invisible gloves in Caer Allisynn, allow the wearer to escape all bindings
Bags of Holding in Caer Allisynn
High Queen Allisynn cannot touch cold iron – fey spirit perhaps.


Kazgoroth
The heart of Kazgoroth, a black, fist sized rock, acts as a spell pool
Hobarth, cleric of Bhaal, not native to Moonshae Isles, fat, smelly, grotesquely ugly

Church of Chauntea
Patriarch Trevor – priest of Chauntea
Cowan – 15 years old, trainee priest

Doncastle
Dernall Forest – towering oaks, white aspen
Doncastle – Druids Gate, blacksmith shop, inn (the Green Meadow, the Raging Boar, the Black Oak), mill, Kings Gate (northeast), Lords Gate (northwest)
Annuwynn – wizard at Doncastle
Vaughn Burne – cleric of Chauntea at Doncastle
Swanmay River
Darcy O’Roarke – sister of Hugh O’Roarke
Evan – bandit at Doncastle
Glynnis – serving girl to Annuwynn
Cassidy – hunter from Doncastle
Banners of lords hiding at Doncastle – Black Bear, Red Boar

Kressilacc
Kressilacc – ancient city of the sahuagin
King Sythissall and High Priestess Yssalla
King Sythissall ruled Kressilacc for centuries
Kressilacc had conquered every other sahuagin settlement within 100 miles, conquest finished a decade ago.
Kressilacc – priests of Bhaal (under the alias of Koraxis “the Ravening Maw” - George Krashos)
The Deepglass – sacred artefact – crafted from ice from the farthest north and forged in the fire of the deepest volcano



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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5936 Posts

Posted - 14 Jun 2020 :  15:19:25  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
And onto the Azure Bonds next.

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ElfBane
Learned Scribe

USA
226 Posts

Posted - 14 Jun 2020 :  16:07:29  Show Profile Send ElfBane a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Under "Doncastle"; any clue as to who those lords are that are showing those banners?
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5936 Posts

Posted - 14 Jun 2020 :  16:14:16  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Unfortunately not, i myself was looking for who those banners belong to, but they are only mentioned briefly in the battle or in the distance and never who they represented.
It is possible that the banner represents just a prominent outlaw and not a lord, so you could attribute it to the mage or cleric but given the tribal society in the moonshae isles it is almost certainly a clan banner from one of the other outlaw lords.

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TBeholder
Great Reader

2201 Posts

Posted - 15 Jun 2020 :  12:34:12  Show Profile Send TBeholder a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Seravin

One thing that's always bothered me about Spellfire (and I've heard it's just cut content) is that the Cult never talks about how the 3 dracoliches are not actually killed because they're dracoliches and their phylacteries were not destroyed. You'd think that bringing the dragons back would be their primary focus [...] It's a plot hole problem. Another sourcebook brings up those 3 lizards that the dracoliches have become though.

It's Spellfire. It's kind of infamous as a product of the editors deluded into thinking they are co-authors... For example:
quote:
Ed Greenwood on FR Mailing List wrote:
[...] readers of a first printing can find the "corpse" of a character falling between rocks, only to spring up again, fit as a fiddle, and fight on (an editor combined two characters, removing one throughout the novel)
- web.archive.org/web/20001009130029/http%3A//geocities.com/TimesSquare/Castle/2566/ed-novels.htm


People never wonder How the world goes round -Helloween
And even I make no pretense Of having more than common sense -R.W.Wood
It's not good, Eric. It's a gazebo. -Ed Whitchurch

Edited by - TBeholder on 15 Jun 2020 13:00:04
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5936 Posts

Posted - 15 Jun 2020 :  12:39:25  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Yes I did note in a few cases that during fight scenes a number of characters I thought had died reappeared a moment later. But I got that same confusion in the crystal shard as well. Perhaps I'm just bad at tracking the fight scenes. I tend to gloss over them in my old age and focus purely on the lore.

As far as I'm concerned the entire company of the bright spear could still be alive. No body, no death is a rule I live by in fiction (and even a body isn't final).

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maransreth
Learned Scribe

Australia
148 Posts

Posted - 16 Jun 2020 :  09:44:19  Show Profile Send maransreth a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Hi Gary,
Thank you for the recent write-ups, especially Spellfire. I remember reading Spellfire when it first came out and loved it - first Ed Greenwood book I read.

Some questions, if you dont mind:
The books - are the books all mentioned in one sitting? Or scattered throughout the book?

Rauglothgor - night dragon is potentially a black dragon?

No mention of Elminster's tower or his "servant" apart from the wyvern's skull?

Apart from the book questions - how are you recording the info from each book? written notes while reading, then typed out? Keeping the typed notes in text or word files?
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5936 Posts

Posted - 16 Jun 2020 :  10:03:23  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
An excerpt of a book is included at the start of each chapter in spellfire, with the author and year.

I think rauglothgor was a red dragon because he breathed fire but that's just from memory, I could be wrong. If I recall correctly night dragon is used to refer to dracoliches.

I didn't bother to note down much about elminsters abode because lhaeo and elminster are detailed a lot elsewhere. In brief summary lhaeo is a prince in exile from tethyr pretending to be a homosexual, lisping, simpering simpleton to disguise himself.
Elminster is of course a lost prince of athalantar (but that isn't mentioned in this book, just that he's 5 centuries old).
Elminsters tower has a kitchen and a bedroom (one bedroom between two people). He warns narm and shandril not to poke around in the bedroom otherwise they will unleash terrible magic on themselves.



I'm writing down notes as I read the book on word documents. The lore is organised under various headings of important people and places.

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George Krashos
Master of Realmslore

Australia
6427 Posts

Posted - 16 Jun 2020 :  13:59:56  Show Profile Send George Krashos a Private Message  Reply with Quote
quote:
Originally posted by Gary Dallison

An excerpt of a book is included at the start of each chapter in spellfire, with the author and year.

I think rauglothgor was a red dragon because he breathed fire but that's just from memory, I could be wrong. If I recall correctly night dragon is used to refer to dracoliches.

I didn't bother to note down much about elminsters abode because lhaeo and elminster are detailed a lot elsewhere. In brief summary lhaeo is a prince in exile from tethyr pretending to be a homosexual, lisping, simpering simpleton to disguise himself.
Elminster is of course a lost prince of athalantar (but that isn't mentioned in this book, just that he's 5 centuries old).
Elminsters tower has a kitchen and a bedroom (one bedroom between two people). He warns narm and shandril not to poke around in the bedroom otherwise they will unleash terrible magic on themselves.



I'm writing down notes as I read the book on word documents. The lore is organised under various headings of important people and places.



Rauglothgor gets some detail in FR7 Hall of Heroes, p.95.

-- George Krashos

"Because only we, contrary to the barbarians, never count the enemy in battle." -- Aeschylus
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Gary Dallison
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United Kingdom
5936 Posts

Posted - 16 Jun 2020 :  17:27:15  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Had a look at hall of heroes and rauglothgor is a red dragon. Hall of heroes is surprisingly good at summing up the novel info in spellfire

Rauglothgor's history in the thunder peaks does present potential problems as it was a thauglor only area for a long time and controlled by another dragon lord before that, yet rauglothgor dominated the area at about the same time.

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TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore

USA
1048 Posts

Posted - 16 Jun 2020 :  22:41:32  Show Profile Send TheIriaeban a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Maybe, a short term partnership for some stated goal? That would allow both dragons to be mentioned to be operating in the same area.

"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."

My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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Gary Dallison
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United Kingdom
5936 Posts

Posted - 17 Jun 2020 :  08:22:26  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
A partnership does not really work with rauglothgor personality (he is known as rauglothgor the proud).

I think given his history, being around as man first settled in the region, he will probably have to have taken the thunder peaks when thauglor lost control of the region.

Now that I think about it, thauglor and rauglothgor sound quite similar at the start of the name, and dragons are known to take name sounds from their sires in the Hope's it enhances their own prestige.

Rauglothgor could have been a child or even a sibling or half sibling of thauglor. It's not impossible for dragons of different species to mate.

Thinking even more on it. Rauglothgor was supposed to have one of the biggest hoards of dragon kind in the region, he acquired this wealth by slaying dragons and stealing hoards. It is possible rauglothgor stole thauglors hoard after the death of that dragon (if they were related he would definitely think of it as his).

Just a few thoughts.

Given that rauglothgor is now dead this .right be pointless speculation but he also died in a unique manner (no other lich has been killed by spellfire that I know of) and its possible that spellfire released his soul from its phylactery. He could persist as some kind of ghost or possessing spirit.

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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5936 Posts

Posted - 19 Jun 2020 :  18:56:19  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Nearly done with the azure bonds. Not quite as atmospheric and realmsian as Ed's novel but equally not as bad as I feared all the novels to be.

As far as I can gather all the events seemed to have kicked off when a number of baddies gathered together to try and create some kind of human golem to achieve an aim they couldn't manage alone.

Moanders cultists wanted to break an elven seal imprisoning their god and the fire knives wanted to kill king azoun, but I cant figure out what cassana stands to gain from it or phalse. A vanity project seems pretty weak justification for the expenditure of so much time and energy.
Zrie prakis is clearly under cassanas control so his aim is unimportant, he was merely there to stack the deck in cassanas favour.

Not much on the revelations or oodles of realmslore, but enough to be worth a read.

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Seravin
Master of Realmslore

Canada
1180 Posts

Posted - 19 Jun 2020 :  22:22:10  Show Profile Send Seravin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Ahh I wrote a whole post on Azure Bonds villain motivations, I really didn't understand what was in it for Cas other than vanity. You get that Moander and the Fire Knives would have a real motivation to create Alias to raise their god and kill Azoun respectively; but Alias seems just a very expensive sellsword for Cas. Phalse I am not sure what he got out of it either? Other than his own demise. Nameless/Finder wanted a way to create an immortal vessel of course, and got it.

Still, it's one of my fave Realms books. I do think there is quite a lot of lore in it:

Cormyr is well established, along with some of the city temples, how sages work in the Realms, dragons and the honor duels from 1st edition D&D, the Shadow Pass, first mention of the Iron Throne, Shadowdale as seen from a visitor without the Knights and Elminster as tour guide, the Flight of Dragons, Sylune the witch, Elminster and how he is with commoners asking for help, the Old Skull Inn, Yulash and the fight between Hillsfar and Zhentil Keep, all the Moander lore, the Elven Wood, Moander's Road forming, and the first novel that has Westgate in it.

God I love that book :)
http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=22901&SearchTerms=motivations

Thread on Azure Bond villains and their motivations.

Edited by - Seravin on 19 Jun 2020 22:29:35
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TheIriaeban
Master of Realmslore

USA
1048 Posts

Posted - 19 Jun 2020 :  22:44:37  Show Profile Send TheIriaeban a Private Message  Reply with Quote
It sounds like Cas had a chance at getting help in creating an immortal, younger version of herself. If that worked, she could then use the process to create a new body for Zrie and then replace Alias' spirit with her own. That way, she would have a young, immortal body and she could enjoy having Zrie as her plaything for all eternity (with him hating every second of it and it proving without a doubt that she is more powerful).

"Iriaebor is a fine city. So what if you can have violence between merchant groups break out at any moment. Not every city can offer dinner AND a show."

My FR writeups - http://www.mediafire.com/folder/um3liz6tqsf5n/Documents
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Seravin
Master of Realmslore

Canada
1180 Posts

Posted - 19 Jun 2020 :  23:43:36  Show Profile Send Seravin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
See, if we had that motivation in the novel, it would have really helped flesh out Cas's character and made her a more memorable villain. I don't like that we have to write the plot motivation for Grubb/Novak. And again, this is my favorite Realms novel so I still love it to death.
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Gary Dallison
Great Reader

United Kingdom
5936 Posts

Posted - 20 Jun 2020 :  08:44:36  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
My thoughts were that at some point cassana was going to transfer herself into alias' body, after she had killed off the other makers. She is after all very vain and cruel and has tried to artificially make herself younger.

There are a few things that are standard tropes in this book but cannot be so due to the history/methods.

First is zrie prakis, he is a lich. However he cannot be a lich because cassana killed him first and then he can only survive while that sapphire wand is around. So the order of events is that cassana kills zrie and then traps his soul in her wand and then sets up some kind of link whereby zrie can animate his body when within a certain range but otherwise his soul feeds her own body keeping her young.

Second is dragonbait. He appears to be some kind of lizard creature but in actual fact is part dragon. Mist calls him dragonling and mist can understand his language. I'm almost tempted to make the saurials some kind of sarrukh offshoot that escaped (the sarrukh dna is part of all modern dragons so that is how mist could understand him)

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Seravin
Master of Realmslore

Canada
1180 Posts

Posted - 20 Jun 2020 :  11:13:15  Show Profile Send Seravin a Private Message  Reply with Quote
I think Zrie was killed, then Cassana felt bad about killing him, and used her money and power to raise him/turn him into her puppet version of a lich. She's a wealthy, powerful sorceress and into immortality, so it makes sense she would have researched lichdom and want to test it out on Zrie.

I think if the Azure Bonds book was written today, Dragonbait would have been confused for dragonborn rather than confused with a lizardman. It always struck me as odd that Dragonbait was free to go around Suzail, Shadowdale, Westgate and didn't run into issues with people freaking out? I'm pretty sure lizardmen or any "monster" race would not be welcome in civilized towns. Dragonborn as a race seem to do away with that in later editions.
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Gary Dallison
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United Kingdom
5936 Posts

Posted - 20 Jun 2020 :  13:55:23  Show Profile Send Gary Dallison a Private Message  Reply with Quote
Regarding Zrie's status, he deanimates (crumbles to inert bones) when the wand (presumably containing his soul) is taken too far away from him. This is definitely different to normal lich status.

Furthermore raising Zrie and then slaying him into lich status seems risky and impractical. He dies, his soul heads to the outer planes, he is raised or resurrected and thus his body is restored. Then Cassana would have to turn him into a lich against his will and bind his soul to her.

Given that his body is bones and his skin is rotten and stretched and charred this seems more in line with the story that Cassana fought him and slew him in a magic duel. Now a quick thinking mage might be able to trap his soul (i believe there is a trap the soul spell) before it heads to the outer planes, shortly after the end of the duel, thus his body is preserved in a glass sarcophagus and his soul is stored in her wand while she comes up with a way to link the two, such that part of his soul energy can be used to animate his body when the wand is close by. The book describes him as being more alive the closer the wand is (and a bag of bones the further away the wand is).



Regarding Dragonbait, dragonborn would have been a better fit but its done now and a dragonborn race would be more likely separated by colour rather than the functional separation that exists among the saurials today.
There are three or four distinct subspecies of saurials, all living in close proximity in their home realm (and then later in the lost dale). Evolution and genetics says that these subspecies should have bred themselves into a single species (even a caste system could not stop the occasional mixing). Thus these species must have been created as they are and while related made unable to cross breed. This is something the sarrukh are easily capable of with their flesh warping magics. The saurials could have been an attempt by the sarrukh of isstosseffifil to create a servitor race like the yuan-ti (which were created in mhairshaulk).

Only another 20 pages left.

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